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VR Porn (MEGATHREAD) NSFW

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  • HerolordHerolord Posts: 300
    NerveGear
    spire8989 wrote:
    Herolord is either a great troll, or needs to get therapy. Either way, stop feeding him.
    I have not insulted anyone, yet I am constantly insulted for making rational arguments. What is "troll" about inning out the contradiction between the claim that transgendered people are "born the wrong sex" and the claim that "gender is a social construct" ? There is a blatant contradiction. Also, what is "troll" about claiming that men are men, even if they feel or would like to be women? If a man is objectively a man, why is it "trolling" to refer to an objective man as a man? Whether we are male or female is determined by chromosomes, not by our feelings.
  • drashdrash Posts: 2,846
    Neo
    Is there a TL;DR to all this? Can we get back to the topic of tittilating VR experiences?

    :D
  • geekmastergeekmaster Posts: 2,866
    Nexus 6
    edited June 2013
    Herolord wrote:
    ... Nobody has stated that the Rambo guy has engaged in speech not covered by the right. ... Also, it is not Anti-American to argue in support of the uniquely American value of freedom of expression. To the contary, it makes more sense to argue that people that argue for the dissolution of the constitution are anti-american. ...
    Umm... what? You support what JohnRambo did? So, in other words, you were not here during the JohnRambo meltdown, you did not witness the events in progress at that time, you did not see his posts in which he stated his goal to be banned, and therefore you do not know the extent of what you claim to be supporting. Right?
    spire8989 wrote:
    Herolord is either a great troll, or needs to get therapy. Either way, stop feeding him.
    drash wrote:
    Is there a TL;DR to all this? Can we get back to the topic of tittilating VR experiences?
    @Herolord: Here, have a virtual tittilating troll cookie:
    [NSFW] http://cdn02.cdnwp.thefrisky.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/19/gingerbread-kama-sutra-600x450.jpg
  • spire8989spire8989 Posts: 337
    Hiro Protagonist
    drash wrote:
    Is there a TL;DR to all this? Can we get back to the topic of tittilating VR experiences?

    :D

    There's only a few people working on vr sex at the moment, so the news is few and far between. Gives people like Herolord time to spam threads like these and make relevant information hard to find. Instead we have pages of non-vr related spam.

    And as Geekmaster said, you must have missed that major meltdown. Posting 20 threads about how American women are awful isn't okay.
  • HerolordHerolord Posts: 300
    NerveGear
    drash wrote:
    Is there a TL;DR to all this? Can we get back to the topic of tittilating VR experiences?

    :D
    I'm interested in the issues that will inevitably spring up with the technology. For example, would a company be able to sell mods that utilize the image of popular celebrities? I am aware that it is restricted in certain circumstances, such as in using the likeness of a celebrity to endorse a commercial product they didn't actually endorse, but I imagine it would be hard to argue that the simple creation of a texture pack would constitute the false endorsement of a third party. Or what if the texture mods were created and give away for free?
  • KuraIthysKuraIthys Posts: 259
    Brain Burst
    Herolord wrote:
    KuraIthys wrote:

    0_o how does this inevitably end up the point of discussion so often? Especially by people that seem to have no idea what they're talking about...

    Now, I could go to great lengths to argue a point here, but it seems like a total waste of time.
    Given how little rationality there is in most people opinion of what gender and sex are, you'll never convince anyone of anything either way.

    The worst are the ones that leap on some arbitrary criteria and then demand that this is the only possible rational definition, even though 99% of the time those definitions are so rigid they are completely at odds with reality.

    Care to hear a scientific definition of gender? Well, too bad. Because there isn't one. Even the biological definitions are pretty shaky, and there is no overall consensus on what makes a person a man or a woman, because the basis for such definitions, would, for instance, logically lead to conclusions that almost no-one would agree with in practice.

    Whatever. Clearly you are a toaster though. And I won't patronize you by indulging your delusions that you are in fact a person. Because I don't think you can possibly fit the criteria of a human being, and clearly, what I think is the only thing that matters here. :roll:

    Ugh. Well, whatever... I really shouldn't even get involved in discussions like this. They're really good at damaging my already limited sanity. XD
    If you had a rational argument against my arguments, you would've invested them in the space of text you created to express your non-scientific emotion exhibitionism.

    Really now? Perhaps I've just gone through this argument a few too many times. What I should've done is left it alone altogether. But fine.

    Where do you want to start? Biology? Pure logic? Social theory?

    Whatever. I have a fair idea how this discussion will go, hence my reluctance to even bother.

    Let's just pick something at random then...

    Basic logic; One of the most common arguments made, (and in essence, the one implied by the remark you originally made), is that gender cannot be changed, and somehow is an innate trait of a person.
    (Firstly, what defines this trait for you anyway? It's always fascinating to watch people define what they think gender actually is, or where it comes from.)

    That's all well and good, but how many situations can you think of in which the definition of something is both immutable, and depends on something other than it's apparent outward physical characteristics.

    In fact, look at the definition of most objects, and you will rarely find a definition that depends much on how it came to be the way it is.

    A car is a car, not because of how it was manufactured, or came to be, or even what it used to be. (In fact, especially NOT by what it used to be.).

    A car is a car. Not a lump of steel, or a collection of parts, or whatever else it might of been made of.
    Equally, if that steel is recycled, whatever it gets turned onto doesn't depend on whether it was, in fact a car at any point in it's history.

    For that matter, a butterfly is a butterfly. NOT a modified caterpillar, even though that's what it started out as.

    By the same line of reasoning I could argue that adults don't exist; After all, everyone started life as a child right? If what you are can't change, then clearly that must still be the case. So... Clearly everyone is a child, no matter what.

    Now, obviously, that last point in particular is highly facetious. But it represents exactly the same kind reasoning I see most people use when arguing that gender cannot be changed.
    When challenged as to why not, the reasons given are almost invariably something bizarre, and linked to some kind of 'magical thinking' that has to assume that gender is somehow something innate and immutable, yet can't point to a reasonable explanation of where this innate trait comes from. - All the more amusing because those same people then accuse others of believing in some kind of 'magical gender spirit'...

    This particular argument is particularly frustrating to listen to, because in rational terms, it comes across as saying, "Well, this person looks like a woman, sounds like a woman, and acts like a woman, but... Must clearly be a man because... I don't think you can possibly ever change what you are under any circumstances.)

    To give a similar example, let's say you have an accident, and one of your arms needs to be amputated. Clearly, you now have only one arm. It would be highly peculiar for anyone to claim otherwise. Yet, since you were born with two arms (presumably), the kind of reasoning you're using would imply that, surely you must still have two arms now, right? Never mind that you clearly only have one, no, that's irrelevant. It's how you were when you were born that matters...

    Speaking of gender, perhaps we should review that for a moment.
    What is gender? Some people seem to think it's linked directly to a person's physical sex, but that would render the concept redundant.

    Definitions vary, and the only consistent point you'll find, usually, is that gender appears to refer to largely non-physical traits. (Whether you would argue these to be behavioural issues, social constructs, or otherwise, there is little about it that has much of anything to do with a person's biology, except insofar as certain behaviours are assumed to have biological causes.)

    The transsexual perspective on this tends to lean towards the idea that a human has both a mental, and physical sex, that don't necessarily match. Note that some refer to the 'mental sex' as 'gender', but given wider implications of what gender refers to, this makes little sense, and indeed you'll find that gender is not being used for that.
    The reason being that the most widely held notions of gender (other than ones that render it a moot concept by linking it directly to biological sex) have to do with how society perceives you, and not your self-perception.
    Of course, having society insist you are something which you do not agree is true is pretty difficult to live with. But that's more or less the heart of this argument anyway.

    Now then. Perhaps the trickiest one;
    biology.

    The problem with sex, in terms of biology, is that we have a cultural expectation somehow that sex has a clear-cut binary, either/or relation, when the actual biological facts suggest anything but.

    I'll leave off gender at this point, because biology cannot say much on the matter. So let's look at biological sex.

    The first point here, is what is the purpose of sex? Or to be specific to what I'm talking about here, what is the underlying reason why a species has more than one sex, and given this reason, what are the defining traits?

    Well, the core reason, clearly, is reproduction. However, in a species that reproduces asexually, the 'sex' of any individual member of that species is clearly a meaningless concept. (Nonetheless, out of some kind of tradition, or habit, members of such species are often referred to using female terms - this however does not hold any actual biological meaning.)
    So, for sex to have meaning at all, you must be discussing a species which reproduces sexually...

    And that leads to the first logical hurdle in defining the sex of individual members. - The definition, clearly, must be related to the nature of the role they take in the reproductive act.
    However, taking this to it's logical conclusion would imply that any member of a species that, for one reason or another cannot reproduce (eg. due to being too old, too young, accident or defect or whatever) in effect is without a defined sex.

    Since that definition causes some obvious problems given that we seem to have an ingrained desire to assign a 'sex' (or gender, really) to even inanimate objects, perhaps we need to look a bit more closely at the problem.

    Clearly, given the basic definitions are related to reproduction (from this point I'll stick to discussing humans, to simplify this a tiny bit), one possible way out of this particular mess is to categorise people according to which set of sexual traits they most closely approximate.
    This covers most cases, even where the person in question has no actual reproductive ability.
    Yet... It does still lead to problems in ambiguous cases, such as anyone with an intersex condition, who may have ambiguous genitalia, traits that develop some mixture of male and female characteristics, and so on.
    What tends to happen to people with intersex conditions however, is that they are arbitrarily assigned a gender at birth, and are then stuck with it forever. This becomes particularly absurd when they then go through puberty and can, in many cases develop secondary sexual characteristics completely at odds with the sex they were assigned.

    Intersex conditions demonstrate just how messy biology can get. But still, some people believe you can force everyone into a specific binary definition regardless. Worse still, they take this definition (which is in fact usually based on a highly superficial examination done at birth by a doctor), as binding for the rest of the person's life, even though it is arbitrary, based on a very superficial notion, and then say that the person's opinion of themselves is completely wrong.

    On top of that, many then also assert that a person's physical appearance, and behaviour are also irrelevant, and subservient to this fairly arbitrary assessment done when they were born.
    Because a person that looks, sounds, and acts like a woman is only a woman if someone happens to have said they were one when they were born.

    Now then. I can probably predict your inevitable counter-argument. (if you can even be bothered) Let's see if you can come up with something I haven't heard 60 million times before. I highly doubt it.

    There's no such thing as an 'objective' definition of a person's sex that doesn't end up being at odds with practical day-to-day reality. Any such definition is bound to be based on some arbitrary, nebulous notion (such as genetics) that for all intents and purposes is no better than talking about 'magical gender spirits'...
  • geekmastergeekmaster Posts: 2,866
    Nexus 6
    Although much more common in plants than animals (when they do not get pollinated naturally), here is a report of a human that is claimed to have undergone a spontaneous gender change:
    http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/07/14/2003263457
  • KuraIthysKuraIthys Posts: 259
    Brain Burst
    geekmaster wrote:
    Although much more common in plants than animals (when they do not get pollinated naturally), here is a report of a human that is claimed to have undergone a spontaneous gender change:
    http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/07/14/2003263457

    XD. Well, that's an interesting one. It doesn't surprise me that the person in question is medically considered a 'hermaphrodite'. (That's not really a commonly used term anymore in western countries, but still.)

    Intersex conditions do seem to have a lot of odd consequences, especially in the period at or around puberty.
    (Human development being more or less a two-stage process anyway; It's part of the reason administration of hormones can have such a huge effect on secondary sexual characteristics... Or for that matter, how you think and feel - A notion that doesn't sit too well with certain groups of people, admittedly.)
  • CJMillerCJMiller Posts: 9
    Wow, when I saw the thread title, I thought it might be interesting. What a trainwreck!

    I'll just throw this out there. I am not a big porn enthusiast, but considering how universal and integral sex is to people's lives, I have always been surprised by the lack of sexual content in the video game world. Far less than literature, movies, or television. Too much to be a coincidence, I think, so I am inclined to attribute this to self-censorship and taboos particular to the gaming industry.

    My personal take on it is that sex is normal, not a separate, hidden thing. It is natural for an element of sexuality and/or eroticism to be present, but it doesn't need to be the whole point of a given medium. Ironically, I think that the prudish drive to hide sex is exactly what degrades it, and creates a market of "prurience", ie makes it into something which seems offensive and sleazy.

    That said, I dislike most porn in practice. But I don't think it's a bad idea in and of itself. Just like in other media, I think it's beneficial to encourage a sex-positive attitude, even when most examples are quite tacky.
  • DycusDycus Posts: 76
    Herolord and KuraIthys, you're both very off-topic. If you'd like to continue discussing that issue, PM each other or further posts will be deleted.
  • KuraIthysKuraIthys Posts: 259
    Brain Burst
    To be honest, I think it's a side effect of the ongoing problem that games still haven't gotten past the hurdle of being considered "childrens entertainment".

    Even though many of them these days are hardly what you'd call child-friendly, the lingering effects of the perception that games are for children still seem to be hanging around.

    I have little interest in porn either. (For the most part I find it either boring, or nauseating, depending on what's going on), but the continued immaturity around even the prospect of such material existing as a 'game' is... dissapointing.

    (So is the frequent unwillingness to tackle other more adult-oriented content; too many games seem to be adolescent male power fantasies - which can be fun, sure, but if that's all you ever see... It gets a little repetitive.)
    Dycus wrote:
    Herolord and KuraIthys, you're both very off-topic. If you'd like to continue discussing that issue, PM each other or further posts will be deleted.

    ...Where did that come from? I'd say that remark shows some highly questionable judgement, but whatever. It's a discussion I didn't really want to be having in the first place, but can't seem to avoid. And it's one I'm even less inclined to have in private with someone I barely know.

    Ahem. Whatever. I shouldn't talk about such things in the first place given what it does to my state of mind, so perhaps that's for the best. There's a reason I haven't been on these forums in about 3 weeks. (No, it's not the moderators, before you draw any odd conclusions). - Now I'm thinking I may not be back again anytime soon.
    But that's neither here nor there. My personal issues are not your concern.

    ...

    Now what was this actually about again? Uh... Right. I guess I don't actually have much more to add to the actual topic of this thread.

    Um, I guess there's a lot of room for interesting sexual experiences in VR, although given what most pornographic content ends up being like I doubt much of it would be of any interest to me...

    But still, it would be interesting to see what people come up with, given the implications...
  • DycusDycus Posts: 76
    The thread is about VR sex/porn games and you guys are having a discussion on the definition of gender... seems pretty off-topic to me.
    Maybe there isn't currently much to talk about in the way of VR porn - that's fine, but in that case, post nothing at all rather than unrelated messages.
  • DrOculusDrOculus Posts: 192
    These virtual ladies all having a fine old time, im a guy....would it be possible for me to be a 3d female VR model in your game.....i want to look at my polygon-paps in that big mirror lol, just trying to cheer things up in here and get back on topic.


    https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1103&start=160#p16495

    Many try this?
  • jwilkinsjwilkins Posts: 580
    Art3mis
    edited June 2013
    I feel I should apologize because I was the one who originally demanded some respect for transgender points of view (but I'm not going to apologize).

    I didn't think it would cause such a fuss because how could somebody possibly want to participate in a discussion of "Sex or Porn VR Games" and have such a narrowly defined ideas such as having a penis requires you to play out the socially constructed role of "male" no matter how you feel. I felt it was on-topic to the degree that VR should give people freedom to play out these roles.

    Ever since I could play as Princess Peach in Super Mario Bro's 2, I have found that I enjoy playing female avatars over male ones. One might then assume, from this discussion, that I might be transgender (and was personally offended), but I'm actually very much cis-gendered (to the point of being a little sensitive about being perceived otherwise) and have no interest at all in playing out societies notion of what constitutes a female. I just think girls are cute, and that testosterone fueled things like sports and space marines are a little too gay (as in homosexual).

    I'm not alone in this video game cross-dressing, and I'm curious if it will cross over into VR (pun intended). I'm convinced it might be a 3rd person phenomenon, i.e., I don't want to look good in that tiger skin bikini, I want my avatar to look good in it. But who knows, maybe most guys like me actually would like to be the little girl (that's a 4chan meme).

    Maybe I was personally offended. It is difficult to even try to describe this fairly innocent tendency of mine for people to read in a public forum if I think I'm going to get jumped on by some small minded jerk who thinks I'm a confused weirdo for not wanting to strap on my virtual space jock.

    Maybe it has to do with how the role of females in video games is not their real life role. In video games, "female" seems to mean small, quick, agile, and stealthy. That is a play style I prefer. Looking good in a cat suit is just a bonus?
    (╯°□°)╯︵┻━┻
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    I also seem to like female avatars better (if you guys haven't noticed). Not sure what it means.
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  • jwilkinsjwilkins Posts: 580
    Art3mis
    I also seem to like female avatars better (if you guys haven't noticed). Not sure what it means.

    I think it is hinted that Kusanagi may not have started life as a female :) Or at least, given the choice to have a male body, she has declined. Not sure exactly what the story is.
    (╯°□°)╯︵┻━┻
  • drashdrash Posts: 2,846
    Neo
    dbaker wrote:
    Not a serious demo :mrgreen:

    Ahhhh this is great! Thanks for this. Sorely needs headtracking though.

    :D
  • KrisRedbeardKrisRedbeard Posts: 110
    Hiro Protagonist
    offtopic.png

    Enabling players to add their own content and host their own environments would go a long way to opening up such a games audience and usefulness, no to mention prelonging its life. It would not matter if your gender, sexual preference or fantasy - you would be free to create it.

    People using such a game to create illegal content is, unfortunately, guranteed. :(
    There is little that could be done to stop it, as such things already happen with non-VR, non-erotic titles. Implementing checks to prevent such people never works for very long.

    Re: Video game cross dressing.
    Used to comment on this to a friend, but he responded with:
    "If you have to stare at someones ass for hours at a time, it might as well be a nice ass."
    Kris Redbeard
    krisbfsgbsig.jpg
    Rule#21: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
  • jwilkinsjwilkins Posts: 580
    Art3mis
    drash wrote:
    dbaker wrote:
    Not a serious demo :mrgreen:

    Ahhhh this is great! Thanks for this. Sorely needs headtracking though.

    :D

    Huh? I seem to remember that the head tracking worked just fine.
    (╯°□°)╯︵┻━┻
  • jwilkinsjwilkins Posts: 580
    Art3mis
    People using such a game to create illegal content is, unfortunately, guranteed. :(
    There is little that could be done to stop it, as such things already happen with non-VR, non-erotic titles. Implementing checks to prevent such people never works for very long.

    Trying to regulate what people think should just be abandoned. The best way to get people to think how you think is to have good ideas.

    It is going to be hard to convince somebody that virtual child pornography is child abuse and should be illegal when we are also allowing 11 year olds to play Call of Duty VR with the Oculus Rift, Delta Six controller, and Omni treadmill. Maybe after a few weeks he could go toe-to-toe against a real child soldier in Africa!

    Or course, if playing Call of Duty VR means that little Timmy is fit as a fiddle and ready to join the military when he hits 18 then I'm sure the government won't oppose it ;)

    I'm not sure if I'm kidding...
    (╯°□°)╯︵┻━┻
  • drashdrash Posts: 2,846
    Neo
    jwilkins wrote:
    drash wrote:
    dbaker wrote:
    Not a serious demo :mrgreen:

    Ahhhh this is great! Thanks for this. Sorely needs headtracking though.

    :D

    Huh? I seem to remember that the head tracking worked just fine.

    You're right. Must have been user error. Fascinating stuff getting right up to them, I flashed back to my nightclub days. 8-)
  • SaethanSaethan Posts: 36
    Two of my favorite characters in all the RPGs I've ever played were my Bowazon and Novasorc in Diablo 2, so, psh, who cares what gender your avatar is. 8-)
  • HappyHimitsuHappyHimitsu Posts: 990
    Art3mis
    People using such a game to create illegal content is, unfortunately, guranteed. :(
    There is little that could be done to stop it, as such things already happen with non-VR, non-erotic titles. Implementing checks to prevent such people never works for very long.

    Is that necessarily a bad thing? While I don't personally have a penchance for the viewing of such materials, it has been shown that those people with a propensity towards deviant behavior may be able to stave off their 'urges' by acting them out in video games, or fantasies.
    If a rapist (or other serious form of deviancy) can satiate his urges virtually, rather than fall to the pressure of his perversion and commit an atrocious act in the real world, then who is to say we shouldn't wholeheartedly embrace the idea?
    Not only that, but perhaps software could be devised that while encouraging a deviant characteristic to express itself it can simultaneously seek to psychologically correct the behavior with the inherent impressionability Virtual Reality may be suscepting us towards. A professional psychologist could enter into the 'matrix' alongside the disturbed individual while possibly programming subtle changes into the structure of the experience in order to effect a desired alteration of the individuals psyche (couple this with some form of high definition biofeedback mechanism like the emotiv eeg http://www.emotiv.com/eeg/features.php and you could have a very powerful tool indeed!).
    Of course this also brings to mind the possibility of such things being used for atrocious purposes (Monarch Mind Control via Virtual Experiential development?) but alas, such things are the nature of the neuron.

    Besides, if you don't like it you don't have to look at it. We cannot escape the fact that people are the way they are, but we can look the other way in most cases. No need to let their perversions be a part of your perceptions.
    “If you are willing to look at another person’s behavior toward you as a reflection of the state of their relationship with themselves rather than a statement about your value as a person, then you will, over a period of time cease to react at all.”
    (~I really gotta remember this shiz~)
    ― Yogi Bhajan
  • KrisRedbeardKrisRedbeard Posts: 110
    Hiro Protagonist
    Is that necessarily a bad thing? While I don't personally have a penchance for the viewing of such materials, it has been shown that those people with a propensity towards deviant behavior may be able to stave off their 'urges' by acting them out in video games, or fantasies.

    No, but it is a difficult subject that will be viewed as a bad thing by very vocal, single minded people or groups of people. Small developers may not care, but larger developers and/or their publishers would feel pressured to prevent it.

    Then again, we are talking about a game that features virtual sex, so maybe its a moot point - they will already have their knickers in a knot :)
    Kris Redbeard
    krisbfsgbsig.jpg
    Rule#21: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
  • HappyHimitsuHappyHimitsu Posts: 990
    Art3mis
    Is that necessarily a bad thing? While I don't personally have a penchance for the viewing of such materials, it has been shown that those people with a propensity towards deviant behavior may be able to stave off their 'urges' by acting them out in video games, or fantasies.

    No, but it is a difficult subject that will be viewed as a bad thing by very vocal, single minded people or groups of people. Small developers may not care, but larger developers and/or their publishers would feel pressured to prevent it.

    Then again, we are talking about a game that features virtual sex, so maybe its a moot point - they will already have their knickers in a knot :)

    I agree wholeheartedly. I have to apologize as I may have took your prior comment out of context, and I read it to suggest that you were perhaps acting like such an individual.

    Edit: I apologize doubly, it would appear that I only read the partial quote of yours posted above by jwilkins, and that I missed this part
    'Enabling players to add their own content and host their own environments would go a long way to opening up such a games audience and usefulness, no to mention prelonging its life. It would not matter if your gender, sexual preference or fantasy - you would be free to create it.
    Now I understand the context upon which the quoted comment was made.

    It is very interesting to see how many different issues crop up and arise because of this device. It really does seem to be a turning point in our evolution.

    Now, whaddya all think about POVR porn with a dildo cam? :lol:
    “If you are willing to look at another person’s behavior toward you as a reflection of the state of their relationship with themselves rather than a statement about your value as a person, then you will, over a period of time cease to react at all.”
    (~I really gotta remember this shiz~)
    ― Yogi Bhajan
  • jwilkinsjwilkins Posts: 580
    Art3mis

    The shadows don't converge.

    The floors in one of those images made me realize that turning the contrast all the way up on the Rift display blows out some detail so I had to dial it back. I need to work on a calibration program.
    (╯°□°)╯︵┻━┻
  • 320x200320x200 Posts: 125
    Hiro Protagonist
    dbaker wrote:
    :lol:
    Not a serious demo :mrgreen:

    The crosshair is very useful for determining just exactly how perverted your gaze is at any given moment lol
  • dbakerdbaker Posts: 27
    Brain Burst
    320x200 wrote:
    dbaker wrote:
    :lol:
    Not a serious demo :mrgreen:

    The crosshair is very useful for determining just exactly how perverted your gaze is at any given moment lol

    For the hell of it, I purchased these scanned models...
    http://www.triplegangers.com/3d-character-models/sale-angel-starlet.html

    I'll see what I can make for you pervs :)
  • MrGeddingsMrGeddings Posts: 604
    Art3mis
    nice but we should have some website where we can share such demos lol. i gonna use garrys mod once it works with the Rift to make a few "scenes" lol
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