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nausea thread - how do i get used to the rift?

sluggerslugger Posts: 42
NerveGear
edited July 2015 in General
hey there,

i read a lot posts about getting vr-sick and nausea from using the rift but also nearly everyone mentioned that it's getting better every day. so ... not for me it seems ... and that's a shame. it also seems this topic isn't very popular even it's probably affecting a lot people.

im having my rift since 3 days now but unfortunatly i really can't use it for longer then a few mins (which makes developing for it pretty hard). even on day 3 after like 5mins of playing half life 2 (which is giving me the best experience so far) i can't use the rift for the rest of the day because im feeling pretty dizzy. i never tried pushing trough it because i know it would make things worse.

standing still and just looking around seems to be ok (more or less), but as soon as i start walking it's like im trying to read a book while sitting in the car (some ppl might understand what i mean).

for now it seems like im making little to no progress in getting my vr-legs. i also thought about buying pills against seasickness but taking pills to use the rift can't be the right way.

does anyone have an idea how to ease this kind of reaction to vr or is there anyone who also got dizzy very fast and can tell how long it took them to get their vr-legs?
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Comments

  • jasonatokcjasonatokc Posts: 353
    I remember when I first started messing with VR back in the 90's getting sick. I have not had any issues with the rift You could try taking a benadryl? Some people just get vertigo and some get it less and some dont get it at all. :?
  • ftarnogolftarnogol Posts: 139
    Hiro Protagonist
    OP, I was about to facepalm when I saw the subject of your thread... luckily I was wrong.

    Cheers to you

    PS: where's the facepalm smiley?
  • drashdrash Posts: 2,849
    Neo
    Slugger, I don't know if this applies to you, but I had to basically close my eyes when turning my virtual body using the mouse (as in most FPS’s), and gradually eased into that after a few days or more. Same goes for walking/running using WASD (as in most FPS's). Maybe leave HL2 alone for a while, and focus on stuff that gives you a solid frame of reference (cockpits, vehicles, etc) with more natural acceleration rather than instant-on, instant-off.

    Anyway, 3 days is nothing IMO. It'll take some time, and this early on, going 5 minutes of playing something intense before you get a sense of discomfort is normal, depending on what you're playing.

    And finally, did you calibrate your IPD? If it's significantly off, apparently it can look OK when you're playing but really ramp up your motion sickness.

    Good luck!
  • I'm having issues with HL2 too, and maybe it's the not-quite-right barrel distortion, or maybe it's the fact that the world of HL2 is a cruel, cruel world without much actual hope for anything.

    I've played TF2, Outerra (flying around at hundreds of miles an hour) and many other games and not had serious issues.

    I found in HL2 that if I closed my eyes and took some deep breaths that the nausea would go away and I could continue for a bit longer. Repeat etc until you 'win'? (do you ever really 'win' Half-Life 2?).
  • sluggerslugger Posts: 42
    NerveGear
    well i got every demo i could find hoping that one of them is usable for more then a few minutes - none of them really was.
    yes, i set my ipd for tuscany (latest version with profiles), tf2 and hl2. in hl2 everything looks ok for me and i think a wrong distortion or wrong ipd would cause dizzyness even while just looking around which is not my case.

    as i mentioned before:
    aslong im not moving, everything is "ok", as soon as i start walking around my brain and stomach go "wohohoo, not good".

    today i'll try changing the cups and see if lowering the fov will have any effects.

    i also like to mention this short article i found after searching for rift nausea:
    http://www.incgamers.com/2013/05/natural-selection-2-devs-oculus-rift-first-impressions-its-nausea-time
  • GanjaroachGanjaroach Posts: 449
    Hiro Protagonist
    marijuana is a great cure for nausea! Have not tested in the rift because I have not received mine yet but worth a shot if you have access to it or live in a state that it is legal. :D
  • sluggerslugger Posts: 42
    NerveGear
    good idea... i'll try mixing it with acid to get rid of the screendoor effect aswell.

    pls stay on topic.
  • geekmastergeekmaster Posts: 2,866
    Nexus 6
    Not turning with a controller helps a lot. Using an ODT like the Virtuix Omni can help keep your visual and vestibular senses from conflicting and causing nausea. When turning with a controller, it helps to close your eyes.
    ftarnogol wrote:
    PS: where's the facepalm smiley?
    facepalm.gif
  • KBKKBK Posts: 983
    Art3mis
    They never mentioned their particular control scheme that is in use. This may be partially due to keyboard vs xbox vs mouse controls.

    which is in use and what should be tried.

    Then the various methods of ameliorating the situation, like head position when initiating and then following through in a movement.
    Intelligence... is not inherent - it is a point in understanding. Q: When does a fire become self sustaining?
  • jojonjojon Posts: 157
    KBK wrote:
    ...
    Then the various methods of ameliorating the situation, like head position when initiating and then following through in a movement.


    Now there's a creative plan, and quite serendipitous too: Make a every turn a tai no henko excercise, and all will be well. :9
  • s0uLs0uL Posts: 79
    Brain Burst
    I was getting slight sickness my first 2 days when I was doing disorienting things or playing FPS games with fast walking speeds. I just took frequent breaks and tried to stick to the more mellow demos to ease into it. Playing games that require no manual movement through space helped me get acclimated to the optics, and only then after I was comfortable with that did I go back into the more wild stuff. It seems to be paying off now. Hope you can eventually get comfortable with movement, man.
  • s0uLs0uL Posts: 79
    Brain Burst
    Proton Pulse was a savior for me. It's such a fun game, a cool visual experience, and requires absolutely no control outside of head movement. If you haven't played it yet, I highly recommend. Even though it won't necessarily train you to react to character movement better, it might help get you more comfortable with being "in the rift" for more than 5 minutes.
  • darrendarren Posts: 251
    From what I read... The motion sickness happens because of the tempular region and ear balance sensors becoming inconsistent with the visual queues.. Whether or not this is true, before using the Rift I acclimated the neural response of myself to the feeling during the Rift that I am on a big floating chair. When I move the controller, it moves the floating chair, it moves me, and so this way I can understand my visual view in conjunction with the hand motion on the controllers. When I turn my head it's just turning my head, but when I press the controller it's moving the floating chair in space (like in the book "Dune").

    If my mind still feels uneasy I reassure it that I am just looking at a screen in front of it, and it makes sense.

    Whether or not this has any physiological effect, or if I am just needlessly pontificating, it doesn't matter.

    What's more important is I actually have no discomfort using the Rift from the first time. However what's strange is when I removed the Rift (from Rifting one hour or so), the entire world looked strange, and gradually I started to feel sick (like the same nausea feeling from getting dumped by a girl friend). Just thinking about the sickness was enough to make it happen and become worse, so I removed my mind from the subject by distracting with something else (TV or whatever) and very quickly I stopped the feeling. The sick feeling is entirely in the mind very possibly and so you too CAN control it.

    What's very important is DO NOT use any pills or to do marijuana as other minority of people have suggested. Your brain is the most important asset. Really the most sophisticated thing in the known universe (other than the inverse itself) and these horrible, scourge on civilization artificial chemical substances are proven to cause loss of control of yourself, irrational stupid dopey behviour and in general you should do NOTHING which hurts your brain or polutes it physically such as a physical chemical or a physical punch or concussion to the head, or oxygen deprivation. They all produce similar consequences!
    "Collecting user blood samples is critical for the operation of the device. We have struggled with our ability to communicate our vision about how user blood sample collection is the future of VR gaming." - Microsoft
  • PinglesPingles Posts: 155
    Art3mis
    I think it's interesting that we have folks who DO get car sick who don't seem to get VR sick.

    And others that DON'T get car sick getting VR sickness.

    VR sickness seems to be a different animal and may be hard to fight for folks that get it bad.

    The last unscientific poll we did (MTBSD) found that most folks had no trouble at all, some had trouble for a while and a small percentage continued to have issues.

    I truly think it would be worthwhile to make a VR sickness testing app. An app that gave a menu of different scenarios to try so people could test themselves in different situations. Perhaps it could be used to pinpoint exactly what teh culprit is as far as game environments go. The app could even dump results back to a server to compile information. If you used personal IDs you could even track the effects over time.
  • KnutsiKnutsi Posts: 147
    Art3mis
    Pingles wrote:
    I think it's interesting that we have folks who DO get car sick who don't seem to get VR sick. [...] And others that DON'T get car sick getting VR sickness.
    There will often be outliers in a dataset. What you want is the general tendency, or the knowledge that the spread is great. Perhaps someone at Oculus have some data to share already..? (:
    Pingles wrote:
    VR sickness seems to be a different animal and may be hard to fight for folks that get it bad.
    Based on my very limited research, there have been at least two theories that may relate to this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10052575 I have to confess my experiences in VR tells me that the theory about loss of postural control triggering simulation sickness appears relevant. I feel that the lack of positional tracking is especially uncanny in my case.
    Pingles wrote:
    I truly think it would be worthwhile to make a VR sickness testing app. An app that gave a menu of different scenarios to try so people could test themselves in different situations. Perhaps it could be used to pinpoint exactly what teh culprit is as far as game environments go. The app could even dump results back to a server to compile information. If you used personal IDs you could even track the effects over time.
    I agree. Might even help Oculus understand their product better. If someone makes this app, please involve a form inside it (or by email later etc.) which allows correlation with other aspects, like if the person gets sick in a car while reading, doing yoga, gets sick from watching FPS games or movies (Blair Which-project, anyone?), played allot of games etc (:
  • bigwhopperbigwhopper Posts: 20
    Brain Burst
    To me it seems whenever i use the 360 Controller for movement, i seem to get a nausea feeling, once i switch over to mouse and keyboard for movement it seems fine.

    I am wondering if it is cause the 360 controller turns you around differently than the mouse & keyboard combo does.
    Just my impression i got over the last 3 days.

    Other than that, have been using it almost 6h a day and no motion / VR sickness.
  • zaptruderzaptruder Posts: 32
    Brain Burst
    You'll become acclimatized to VR eventually.

    Things that can ease your transition to VR legs is motion sickness aids.

    Ginger is a good solution - but you need to take it an hour or so ahead of time.

    Set aside time to feel sick... it can make you kinda unproductive when you do get VR Sick.


    This will be significantly less of an issue once the Consumer version is out with translational tracking - and hopefully a longer cable/wireless to let you turn more on the spot.
  • sluggerslugger Posts: 42
    NerveGear
    the only pills i would take are "travelpills", i think they simply disable parts of the inner ear balance system which is in charge for dizzyness while riding coasters or long car trips.
    they shouldn't cause any harm but on the other hand ... i'm not moving but my brain thinks i am and i'm afraid that these pills won't help at all.

    i came up with the idea of changing the cups because i was playing a lot quake with ridiculous fov settings which made me feel a bit dizzy for the first games - so i thought lowering the fov in the rift (by changing the cups) could do the trick.
    i tried the b and c cups today and i think the b cups making me able to stay longer in the rift (i'm only trying tuscany for now because the latest version is using the new eye measurement tool and because its slow paced). maybe its just a placebo, the next days will show.
  • MrGrey1701MrGrey1701 Posts: 30
    This is one of the things I am really quite worried about while waiting for my rift. I've been waiting since the early 90s for the promise of VR to come true, watching as each generation of gaming advanced to this point from my humble little 8 bit computer, through the Sega Master system and SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, PC gaming and PS3 to the dawn of the PS4 and that other One ;)

    Meanwhile, although my mind is ready and willing to embrace the advent of VR for the masses, my body has given up waiting and has succumb to multiple sclerosis. Now I get dizzy very quickly, am car sick whereas I never used to and my special awareness is totally to whack. I used to be able to play games for hours on end but now, depending on the game I can get motion sick within minutes. Yep, I must have been crazy when I placed my order last month :roll:

    If there is one thing I have, it's determination to push through it and therefore any and all tips and advice to help minimize motion and VR sickness will be welcomed by me.
  • sluggerslugger Posts: 42
    NerveGear
    i can definitly break it down to movement in vr. proton pulse and vr cinema give me nearly no dizzyness. it's the wrong sense of movement which is trying to turn my stomach inside out.
    next i'll try using a fan or something to see if i can get a better body and positionawareness while moving in vr.
    something which is also pretty weird and causing dizzyness very fast is walking into the direction you're looking. tuscany for example. walk straight forward with w and then look to the left to move left: its like walking sideways and it feels so wrong that it's causing instant dizzyness for me.
  • darrendarren Posts: 251
    slugger wrote:
    i can definitly break it down to movement in vr. proton pulse and vr cinema give me nearly no dizzyness. it's the wrong sense of movement which is trying to turn my stomach inside out.
    next i'll try using a fan or something to see if i can get a better body and positionawareness while moving in vr.
    something which is also pretty weird and causing dizzyness very fast is walking into the direction you're looking. tuscany for example. walk straight forward with w and then look to the left to move left: its like walking sideways and it feels so wrong that it's causing instant dizzyness for me.

    What if you imagine that you are in a flying chair and controlling the chair with the thumbsticks (gamepad). I do this and I have no dizziness whatsoever.

    You really need to meditate on this, tell your mind what's going on. You're just looking at a screen. When you press buttons your chair flies around.
    "Collecting user blood samples is critical for the operation of the device. We have struggled with our ability to communicate our vision about how user blood sample collection is the future of VR gaming." - Microsoft
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,990 Valuable Player
    I'm in the process of digging up the Sim-Sickness documentation created for the early simulators, and for the early VR platforms and the work created - going to place this into a database - though will have to evaluate how best to circulate this as there is an issue of liability and responsibility (will need to speak with OVR on how they want to handle this).

    Fundamentally, we need all sickness sufferers to chart their symptoms and following issues:
    - symptoms
    - duration
    - eyesight
    - content
    etc.,

    Would recommend keeping a diary of the exposure and issues - especially if they negate, and what cause the worst effects. Remember we will be moving onto a V2.2 devkit at some point and eventually a V1.1 CSK system, so would be important to chart what happens when we move over.

    I would also not be too keen to see self medication - as mentioned in other discussions - as all pharmacy comes with some side-effects, and also pharmaculture is a difficult process and what might work for some wont work for others - and we need to evaluate the best approach; the issue of 5-hour marathons is also reckless.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • geekmastergeekmaster Posts: 2,866
    Nexus 6
    edited July 2013
    darren wrote:
    You really need to meditate on this, tell your mind what's going on. You're just looking at a screen. When you press buttons your chair flies around.
    What has worked for me in certain games is to imagine that I am sitting still and the controller moves the world around me. No Vestibulo-Ocular Dysfunction that way, until you forget...
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,990 Valuable Player
    Mind Training (or mind over matter) regarding motion sickness is worth evaluating (Google it):
    http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/08/09/2977608.htm
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • sluggerslugger Posts: 42
    NerveGear
    darren wrote:
    slugger wrote:
    i can definitly break it down to movement in vr. proton pulse and vr cinema give me nearly no dizzyness. it's the wrong sense of movement which is trying to turn my stomach inside out.
    next i'll try using a fan or something to see if i can get a better body and positionawareness while moving in vr.
    something which is also pretty weird and causing dizzyness very fast is walking into the direction you're looking. tuscany for example. walk straight forward with w and then look to the left to move left: its like walking sideways and it feels so wrong that it's causing instant dizzyness for me.

    What if you imagine that you are in a flying chair and controlling the chair with the thumbsticks (gamepad). I do this and I have no dizziness whatsoever.

    You really need to meditate on this, tell your mind what's going on. You're just looking at a screen. When you press buttons your chair flies around.

    i tried these things:
    -floating chair
    -world is moving around me
    -it's a monitor with a high fov

    i tried seeing the vr reality in all ways i can imagine so my brain can explain itself why things move while i don't. nothing is working, as soon i start moving the dizzyness starts.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,990 Valuable Player
    I noted that none of us have mentioned "Roller Coaster Syndrome".

    Many hardcore fans of coasters (true enthusiasts) work hard to acclimatize themselves to extreme rush on new coasters - especially as they have to ride them a number of times in quick succession.

    I really wonder what the official response to questions on sim-sickness will be when the system is further towards consumer deployment?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • KBKKBK Posts: 983
    Art3mis
    What about folks who spend time and of money just trying to get messed up? :D
    Intelligence... is not inherent - it is a point in understanding. Q: When does a fire become self sustaining?
  • darrendarren Posts: 251
    Spin around twenty times and try to kick a virtual football while wearing a Rift.
    "Collecting user blood samples is critical for the operation of the device. We have struggled with our ability to communicate our vision about how user blood sample collection is the future of VR gaming." - Microsoft
  • KnutsiKnutsi Posts: 147
    Art3mis
    kevinw729 wrote:
    I really wonder what the official response to questions on sim-sickness will be when the system is further towards consumer deployment?
    Agreed. I think it might be wise of OVR to pre-empt this, and be ready for it when the reviews strike. Especially if one can acclimatize in most cases, that should be stated from the start. A tutorial to ease you in might also be wise, and as I've said elsewhere: perhaps VR content should be graded so that the average user who picks it up knows what to expect and what to avoid based on their tolerance level.

    E.g. TF2/Heli-Hell would be 3+, Tuscany 2+, Titans of Space 1+ and a stationary demo sans motion 0+.

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,990 Valuable Player
    @knutsi -
    I agree, and look forward to developments. Also like your grading chart.

    Regarding OVR undertaking the classification and 'pre-empting' what seems obvious as needing structure =

    We have to be mindful that a corporation will be unwilling to look at this issue towards causality and liability. You will have seen that Nintendo dropped the Wii Vitality Sensor - the official statement is "...we [Nintendo] found out that for some people the sensor did not work as expected," - but sources also claim that Nintendo was mindful that the system would have to act perfectly for every player as a 'guardian' to miss-use of the Wii, and as they are already facing a number of lawsuits regarding the Wii being instrumental in injury and even death - this device could prove a serious issue towards legal deniablity of responsibility and knowledge of fault.

    Likewise, I am sure OVR has taken council on this issue, and so best to move on regarding their position on this.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
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