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USB 3.0 Compatible Expansion Cards

teknix1teknix1 Posts: 30
Brain Burst
edited February 2016 in General
Hi,

Like many people, the wait between the pre-order and actually receiving the headset gives me time to get my PC ready. I have USB 3.0 ports on my motherboard (ASUS P9X79) but they are not compatible (Asmedia). So I've been looking at getting a PCI Express card to get the required ports. As mentioned many times before in this forum, Inateck makes one that has been tested by Oculus (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FPIMJEW). The Oculus documentation about the USB requirements state that I will need three USB 3.0 ports and one USB 2.0 port toi plug in everything. I thought I had read way back that I was going to need 5 ports total, did I dream this? Anyways, here's the break down of the requirements:
1x 3.0 USB port for the headset
1x 3.0 USB port for the 3D Positional Tracker
1x 3.0 USB port for Oculus Touch (available at a later date)
1x 2.0 USB port for Xbox wireless controller

So my thinking is why not get a card that will give me all the ports necessary for the Rift? Inateck also makes one with 4 USB 3.0 ports (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B6ZCNGM), can I assume this will do the job? Oculus says that I need a card with a Fresco Logic FL1100EX chipset, I believe it has such chipset but it's for all four ports (plus internal ones) rather than the two (plus internal ones again) with the Oculus tested card, now does that make it incompatible? Same throughput divided amongst more ports... Inateck also makes a few cards with 5 ports...

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Nic
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Comments

  • I just ordered the inatek 4 port USB 3.0 from Amazon.. That's the one they recommend. Should be here later this week..hope it works.
  • When I clicked on one of the links Cyber posted, it was a link to the 4-port version. I ordered the 4-port one as well. (The version with internal USB ports instead of headers, because that's what my front USB 3.0 ports need. That version doesn't appear to be listed anymore, though; should probably test out the one they shipped ASAP.)
  • DannyMNLDannyMNL Posts: 269
    Nexus 6
    May I ask in which thread Cyber has posted these links? I'm looking to add a few USB ports to my system but the Inateck expension card isn't available in my country, therefore I'm looking for some supported alternatives that are available over here.

    edit: NVM, found it:
    viewtopic.php?f=20&t=28559&p=319507&hilit=Inateck#p319507

    No alternatives though :(
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  • Sir.LulzWorthSir.LulzWorth Posts: 6
    NerveGear
    The actual amazon posting has changed a couple times since Cyber posted it. It was a "5-Port PCI Express Card and 15-Pin Power Connector, Mini PCI-E USB 3.0 Hub Controller Adapter", which I ordered. It then changed to a 5-Port PCI Express Card and 15-Pin Power Connector, 2 internal USB 3.0 ports. Now it seems to have changed to a 4 port with just the 15-Pin Power Connector.
  • teknix1teknix1 Posts: 30
    Brain Burst
    That explains a few things. I thought I had seen a 4 port version at some point.

    Inateck makes 5 different cards and one of them is for Mac pro:
    KTU3FR-2O2I: 4 ports total, 2 external, 1 internal 20 pin connector good for 2 ports
    KTU3FR-4P: 4 external ports, 15 pins SATA internal power connection
    KTU3FR-5O2U: 7 ports total, 5 external, 2 internal usb connections, 15 pins SATA internal power connection
    KTU3FR-5O2I: 7 ports total, 5 external, 1 internal 20 pin connector good for 2 ports, 15 pins sata internal power connection
    KT7001 (for Mac pro): 7 external ports, 15 pins SATA internal power connection

    I figure, since the price on these cards isn't all that much different between them, why not go big. So I feel like getting one of two that have 7 ports, but I'm worried about splitting a single chipset between all these ports. Am I worrying too much?

    The first one I remember seeing was the KTU3FR-4P, and that would make sense, just enough ports for everything and powered through the SATA connection.

    If Cyber could reply with the actual recommended product number, that would be great.
  • drashdrash Posts: 2,819
    Trinity
    It's a nice idea, but I would be concerned about all the bandwidth being bottlenecked through a single USB3 controller. Definitely would be helpful to get more detail on how many of these connections can be put onto a single card/controller.
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  • DannyMNLDannyMNL Posts: 269
    Nexus 6
    teknix1 wrote:
    The first one I remember seeing was the KTU3FR-4P, and that would make sense, just enough ports for everything and powered through the SATA connection.

    That's the one I have now ordered via Amazon as well ( including shipping it was still cheaper than just the card in several shops here in Europe...).

    I assume it's supported since it has the FL1100 chipset that was mentioned earlier.

    I have a buttload of USB ports on my system already, but then again I also have a buttload of peripherals that I don't feel like unplugging all the time, so this relatively cheap card is a godsend...
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  • ejz6837ejz6837 Posts: 233
    I don't think it's for bandwidth, I think it's for power. And the Inateck comes with SATA power as well as PCI-E power. I wouldn't worry about bandwidth requirements. I installed an Inateck 4 port and the Oculus checker likes it, but still moans about my other USB 3 controller.
  • DannyMNLDannyMNL Posts: 269
    Nexus 6
    I think you're right, for some reason I had the brainfart idea that the video data would be sent through USB as well, which of course is ridiculous, that's what the HDMI1.3 port requirement is for. Though, the 3D positional camera and the sensors in the headset itself would probably benefit from the lower latency of USB3.0
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  • teknix1teknix1 Posts: 30
    Brain Burst
    Well if the oculus checker doesn't complain then it should be good enough. I decided to go ahead and order the KTU3FR-4P from amazon.

    Thanks everyone!
    Nic
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 23,033 Oculus Staff
    @teknix1: Amazon keeps changing the link. I think one of the good ones is KTU3FR-5O2U. However, Inatek makes multiple models that all use the FL1100 chipset and those should be working.

    http://www.amazon.com/Inateck-Superspee ... B00FPIMICA
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  • KBKKBK Posts: 983
    Art3mis
    DannyMNL wrote:
    Though, the 3D positional camera and the sensors in the headset itself would probably benefit from the lower latency of USB3.0

    Not benefit, actually...more like 'require'.

    at 90hz, the full loop, is only 11 milliseconds, so individual low single digit milliseconds count.

    Render is tied wholly to the entire loop. never mind the rest of the decision and action tree.

    USB 2.0 at a max of 1000 polls of the port per second, is nowhere near fast enough.

    A 10x speed increase, with the whole bus interrupt path in consideration in that 10x increase, is critical.

    USB 3.0 is full duplex, which means two way traffic at all times, and this gives something akin to a 10x improvement in timing for full loop feedback systems like the Rift hardware and PC combination.
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  • teknix1teknix1 Posts: 30
    Brain Burst
    Thanks Cyber, what I timely response. I believe all their cards use that chipset, but as soon as you get one that has more than 4 external ports, you can see there's a new chip on the board. Not sure what's it's for. So I managed to cancel my order and got the KTU3FR-5O2I instead (5O2U was unavailable). It's basically the same as the KTU3FR-5O2U but has an internal 20 pin header instead on the two USB ports. The board looks 99% the same and I'm going to guess that it'll work just as well.
  • teknix1teknix1 Posts: 30
    Brain Burst
    Definitely the faster the loop the better, but I don't think they actually need to go below 11ms to have a great experience in relation to the tracking. I remember reading the Oculus blogs years ago and they were explaining how they were predicting the head movements, really neat stuff.

    Oh, here we go, I was able to find it again: https://developer.oculus.com/blog/the-l ... rediction/

    I wave to wonder how much processing is actually done within the sensor and how much data is actually send through the USB port. 1000+ polls a second, that could be a lot of data depending on what is actually sent.
  • Is Inateck the only manufacturer that uses this FL1100EX chipset in PCIe expansion cards or are there others?
  • bufferbuffer Posts: 6
    Is Inateck the only manufacturer that uses this FL1100EX chipset in PCIe expansion cards or are there others?
    Also ORICO PFU3-4P
  • KingNebaKingNeba Posts: 2
    edited January 2016
    buffer wrote:
    Is Inateck the only manufacturer that uses this FL1100EX chipset in PCIe expansion cards or are there others?
    Also ORICO PFU3-4P

    Just picked up the PFU3-4P for $22.99 since the Inateck card linked in old threads is unavailable. Thanks for the info.
  • shim2shim2 Posts: 480
    Nexus 6
    Is anyone from Oculus going to talk about USB/HDMI expansion cables? I've asked about this for a good while now, but not one response.
  • YoLolo69YoLolo69 Posts: 678
    Neo
    Are you sure guys all your USB 3.0 ports are not compatible? I have 6 x USB 3.0 ports (and 2xUSB 2.0) and the Oculus compatible tool said SOME of my ports wasn't compatible. It turn to be the 2 USB 3.0 ports in front of my case, the remaining 4 on the back are compatible with the Oculus Rift, so my computer is OK if I use 3 ports on the back and I will not have to buy any USB 3.0 additional card.

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  • NickytheHuttNickytheHutt Posts: 166
    Art3mis
    I don't think the checker tool has any way to tell our USB 3.0 ports are OK as well as actually testing the Rift. The checker is a sales tool because many don't know what they have inside their computer.

    There are thousands of pages on the internet where people are forced to try different USB interfaces, powered hubs, etc. Even if the peripherals are unequally problematic, bottom line it's always the computer setup's fault if it's underpowered, in hardware conflict or "chipset incompatible". Those things are impossible to assume from looking at our hardware specs.

    All we know is that we need two free "blue" USB's, with trial and error we'll find out how to work those out. I know I'm gonna need to make 2 round trips to the computer store before the Rift starts performing well although I have the right amount of USB ports.
  • I have a USB Type C port. What about an Inateck Unibody Aluminum USB-C to 4-Port USB 3.0 Hub?
    Relatively inexpensive but it's good to be armed with as much information as possible.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 23,033 Oculus Staff
    All we know is that we need two free "blue" USB's, with trial and error we'll find out how to work those out.
    That's not true. There are absolutely some USB 3.0 controllers that DO NOT WORK at all with the consumer Rift. Meaning you won't be able to use the headset. We have tested a wide variety of different motherboards and controllers to come up with the compatibility list. You should absolutely take the results seriously.
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  • NickytheHuttNickytheHutt Posts: 166
    Art3mis
    All we know is that we need two free "blue" USB's, with trial and error we'll find out how to work those out.
    That's not true. There are absolutely some USB 3.0 controllers that DO NOT WORK at all with the consumer Rift. Meaning you won't be able to use the headset. We have tested a wide variety of different motherboards and controllers to come up with the compatibility list. You should absolutely take the results seriously.

    I didn't know the tool looked that deep in the hardware ID's. I was managing low expectations eventho the tool says all green for me.

    May I ask how much power draw from each module? I have a USB3 HOTAS...
  • dracildracil Posts: 13
    So looking at the Inateck cards, I noticed they also had "Mac Pro" ones that don't need to deal with the power cables. Specifically the KT4004 model over here: http://www.amazon.com/Ports-Inateck-PCI ... op?ie=UTF8

    From the description, it seems like it also works with Windows, and the red color has the same chipset. Is there any reason why you couldn't just get this one and not even deal with power cables?
  • drashdrash Posts: 2,819
    Trinity
    dracil wrote:
    So looking at the Inateck cards, I noticed they also had "Mac Pro" ones that don't need to deal with the power cables. Specifically the KT4004 model over here: http://www.amazon.com/Ports-Inateck-PCI ... op?ie=UTF8

    From the description, it seems like it also works with Windows, and the red color has the same chipset. Is there any reason why you couldn't just get this one and not even deal with power cables?
    I doubt this definitively answers your question, but I have a similar Inateck 4-port card without any power connection, and it works great here.
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  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 23,033 Oculus Staff
    @dracil: I says it uses the supported chipset, so it should work as far as I can tell.
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  • Percy1983Percy1983 Posts: 1,371
    Wintermute
    Just a tip, if you get the yellow triangle that means some of your ports aren't compatible.

    Here is my short guide to check it out, (only if you have the yellow warning of course).

    1, take note of the controller (in my case its "ASMedia USB3.0 eXrewnsible Host Controller").

    2, Go to device manager and disable offending controller.

    3, plug a usb device into each usb 3.0 port, the ports which don't work are linked to the offending controller.

    4, if you have 3 or more working ports you are good to go, take note/remember which ports aren't working and don't use them for the rift.

    5, Go back into device manager and of course enable the controller again.

    Doing this I can confirm 2 ports on the back of my PC where the asmedia and the rest of my ports where Intel or Renesas which passed.
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  • Got Fresco FL1100 based 4 port Orico PFU3-4P PCI-E expansion card from ebay and my USB passed with Occulus compatibility tool. No drivers were needed for Windows 10. I had to disable the (incompatible) Etron USB3 controller in device manager.
  • CamisadeCamisade Posts: 3
    edited June 2016
    I bought the KTU3FR-5O2U linked to on Amazon. it's installed, with the SATA power connector attached, and when I try a non-USB3 device on the card, it's recognized and works fine. But when I try to plug a Rift device (headset or sensor) into one of the Inateck's USB ports, I get nothing. No device recognition, no nothing. The latest Inateck drivers for that card are from 2014, so that's not real reassuring. But when I try newer drivers direct from the Fresco Logic site the installation program (which looks identical to Inateck's) does not find the Fresco Logic hub. So I'm at a loss...

    EDIT: Removed all devices from the Inateck card and uninstalled, then reinstalled the 2014 drivers that it came with, then managed to get the 2016 Fresco Logic drivers to install. Then I went and bought a USB3 thumb drive to test the USB3 functionality of the Inateck card, and that does not get recognized, either. So since I've tried the Inoteck card in two different (known working) PCI-E slots, and it recognizes USB2 devices but NOT USB3 devices, I'm beginning to think the card is defective. :-/

    EDIT: The first Fresco Logic card was bad. The second one is working fine. With the new card (and a new GTX 1080), my VR system is working fine!
  • GLUTIUS_MAXIMUSGLUTIUS_MAXIMUS Posts: 1
    edited July 2016
    so the recommended usb card is out of stock, any other cards known to work that can be recommended? 

    EDIT: just kidding they are now in stock. right after i posted this. haha
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