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Halo effect / glare / lens flare: anyone discover ways to minimize it?

DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
3Jane
A friend of mine got his preorder yesterday, and he loves everything about it except the glare. He plays a lot of Elite Dangerous, and apparently he is really bothered by the glare in that game. He found one way to minimize it, adjust the positioning of the Rift so that the light is shining straight into his eyes - unfortunately that also makes the Rift press hard against his nose. He is bothered by it enough he's wondering whether he should return (or sell) the Rift and keep using his DK2.

So does anybody have any suggestions?
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Comments

  • maxpare79maxpare79 Posts: 1,782
    Project 2501
    That's what worries me the most and the first reason I had to secure a VIVE order
    I am a spacesim/flightsim/racesim enthusiast first :-) I7 [email protected], 16gb RAM/ Asus 1080 Strix Former DK2 Owner/Gear VR owner/CV1
  • christopherbarnhousechristopherbarnhouse Posts: 263
    Nexus 6
    I have the same problem, though I haven't tried ED yet. At this point I'm hoping the reddit rumor is true and there were some defective lens shipped so we can get a fix. The optics were supposed to be one of the things that made the Rift better.
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    edited April 2016
    The Reddit thing was not true, the guy who originally said it (who had his thread locked due to no proof) came out and said it was an April Fools prank. And his rumor was that after the Kickstarters they were shipping only good ones anyways.
  • OccUpiedOccUpied Posts: 112
    Art3mis
    isn't that software issue not hardware?. Reach out the ED dev.
  • maxpare79maxpare79 Posts: 1,782
    Project 2501
    edited April 2016
    No, it's an issue of light sources over dark background
    I am a spacesim/flightsim/racesim enthusiast first :-) I7 [email protected], 16gb RAM/ Asus 1080 Strix Former DK2 Owner/Gear VR owner/CV1
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    OccUpied said:
    isn't that software issue not hardware?. Reach out the ED dev.
    Nope, it's a hardware issue caused by the fresnel lenses that Oculus uses, software developers can minimize the issue by not having any bright high contrast elements in dark scenes, but good luck with that in a space game :)
  • maxpare79maxpare79 Posts: 1,782
    Project 2501
    The issue would be less of a problem on the VIVE due to larger grooves in the Fresnel lens
    I am a spacesim/flightsim/racesim enthusiast first :-) I7 [email protected], 16gb RAM/ Asus 1080 Strix Former DK2 Owner/Gear VR owner/CV1
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,153
    Wintermute
    maxpare79 said:
    That's what worries me the most and the first reason I had to secure a VIVE order
    Except the Vive also has Fresnel lenses, so it also has lens flare issues. Oddly enough people mentioned them more on the Vive than the Rift in pre-release reviews, so maybe something changed in the Rift's lens design since then?
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    The issue is quite a bit better on Vive, because the rings on its fresnel lenses are farther apart - not as much light shining from the edge of one ring hits another ring to continue the beam.
  • ZuhZuh Posts: 256
    Nexus 6
    I there any comparison regarding glare effect? Rifts optics supposed to be better :/ 
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,153
    Wintermute
    Zuhook said:
    I there any comparison regarding glare effect? Rifts optics supposed to be better :/ 
    Someone posted a major optics comparison recently that I think was linked to here today. From what I remember, they said the Vive effect was like lens flare in a camera, while the Rift was more like bright lines across the image.
  • lordbinkylordbinky Posts: 4
    NerveGear
    I think the issue is compounded by the pentile sub-pixel arrangement that doesn't (as far as I understand the issue) lend itself to pre-processing to reduce the chromatic abberation. 
    The glare is a separate issue tied to the fresnel lenses.

    I will say this with confidence: If costs did not weigh into the decision, two (possibly three) majors changes in the oculus rift would be:
    - RGB OLED arrangement (ie not these pentile OLED displays they just have to many exceptions to their advantages outside of cost)
    - More precise Achromatic fresnel lenses
    -(possible third option, a filter or multi lense setup at the panel to force the light from to straight/parallel lines and remove glare and neighboring pixel issues)

    But that's not the case. RGB OLEDs are more power hungry, higher production cost, and (not sure about the most modern truthiness on this last statement) don't produce as high of a total brightness as do pentile subpixel OLEDS. (My knowledge here may not be 100% modern either) Achromatic fresnel lenses can be "easily" made by diamond turning the lenses. The issue there is that diamond turning ( or diamond milling for achromatic lenses) is it's high cost due to a labor intensive single piece process with a high defect rate and isn't even really considered a mass production method.

    Still, end result, I've got a CV1 that has really bad crepuscular ray type glare. (Thanks to the linked optical comparison for excellent description of the glare).

    The comparison is http://doc-ok.org/?p=1414

  • GtAwyFrmMyRamenGtAwyFrmMyRamen Posts: 135
    Art3mis
    It's all in respect to Kojima. Bring on the flares.
  • b00zb00z Posts: 5
    A friend of mine got his preorder yesterday, and he loves everything about it except the glare. He plays a lot of Elite Dangerous, and apparently he is really bothered by the glare in that game. He found one way to minimize it, adjust the positioning of the Rift so that the light is shining straight into his eyes - unfortunately that also makes the Rift press hard against his nose. He is bothered by it enough he's wondering whether he should return (or sell) the Rift and keep using his DK2.

    So does anybody have any suggestions?
    No suggestions, but same big issue and after three days of elite with my cv1... definitly can't accommodate

  • Kalec84Kalec84 Posts: 568
    Trinity
    maxpare79 said:
    That's what worries me the most and the first reason I had to secure a VIVE order
    Problem seems to be that vive has the same problem (they use the same type of lens, even if with different shapes)
  • dinorogerdinoroger Posts: 196
    Art3mis
    Does the problem go away when closing your eyes? Must be your eyes then. ;)
  • RPGPr0GoRPGPr0Go Posts: 35
    edited April 2016
    Your friend is definitely not imagining the problem. Its well documented. As far as I know its just a prevalent issue with this generation of displays across all HMDs right now. Look here from PC Gamer, they say this:

    http://www.pcgamer.com/oculus-rift-review/

    "The edges of bright in-game objects (and especially text) produce a distracting shimmering effect some people are calling ‘god rays’ or ‘light rays.’ Imagine looking up at the sun while standing underneath a tree, and seeing bright beams of light striking your eyes from around the edges of the leaves and branches. It’s a bit like that in VR, but every bit of white text you look at will have those shimmering rays streaking out toward your eyes. They move as you move your head and your perspective on the virtual world shifts, making anything bright you aren’t looking directly at blurry.

    You can see a good example of the light ray effect in action here. I don’t think I even noticed this effect at first. I was just wowed by being in VR. VR is really cool! But now I find the light rays a constant distraction, a reminder that I am looking at a screen, and often a source of eye strain when trying to read shimmery text. It’s bad in the Oculus Home software, where you need to read text, and it’s bad in games, where you want to be able to see everything in your periphery in focus.

    This is currently virtual reality’s biggest failure in replicating how we look at the real world. I say virtual reality, and not just the Rift, because the same effect is present on the HTC Vive. Perhaps this is the best we can do right now at consumer prices. But after the novelty wears off, the experience of using the Oculus Rift in 2016 is moments of brilliance surrounded by consistent blur."

  • RPGPr0GoRPGPr0Go Posts: 35
    Embedded in that excerpt from PC Gamer was another website's article(if you did not find it), highlighted here, about Optical Properties of Current VR HMDs:

    http://doc-ok.org/?p=1414
  • johnmccabejohnmccabe Posts: 45
    edited April 2016
    I'm stunned at how pronounced it is... and am of the opinion that its a recent change.

    For example, Luckys Tale starts with the Oculus logo white on a black background where the effect is very bad; Henry, starts with the logo then pictures against a black background - shockingly bad smearing on this one; Eve Valkryie, every battle starts in the dark launch tube with the glowing lights of your dash showing obvious smearing..

    It makes zero sense that Oculus devs wouldn't have been aware of the issue and taken measures to make it less obvious rather than just smacking you in the face with it on so many of the flagship titles.

    If on the other hand they thought it was ok, then what on earth were they smoking :frowning:

    I can empathise with the OPs friend, I'm of the opinion that the DK2 felt sharper in comparison as well.

    - that said, its good fun and it looks like the Vive has a whole set of issues of its own, but yeah the smearing must go in CV2.
  • christopherbarnhousechristopherbarnhouse Posts: 263
    Nexus 6
    Yea, in Farlands too, there's a black background on startup screen. Every time I see it I think - "Why didn't they use like a light blue background or something ?" 
  • water_water_ Posts: 226
    Nexus 6
    A suggestion for Elite: Dangerous, but note that I have not received my Rift yet to test. If its mostly the hud inside the cockpit causing the problem you can change the color from bright orange to maybe a dark blue. Then, on the right side of the hud go to the last tab and change the brightness of the hud all the way down so it is not as bright.
  • LuscaLusca Posts: 171
    Art3mis
    If the effect is that bad, and cannot be fixed (soon), then I'll probably have to switch to the Vive. Elite Dangerous is my favourite game and the reason I ordered a CV1. I'd like to hear more from the ED community to see how bad it is.
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    Lusca said:
    If the effect is that bad, and cannot be fixed (soon), then I'll probably have to switch to the Vive. Elite Dangerous is my favourite game and the reason I ordered a CV1. I'd like to hear more from the ED community to see how bad it is.
    Don't forget Vive has the problem too, it's just a little different.
  • Fredd32Fredd32 Posts: 251
    Nexus 6
    It is present on the vive as well, it looks like blur on the rift and appears more like a segmented artifact on the vive. The fresnel rings on the rift are more tightly compacted so it appears as a continuous light ray and on the vive the fresnel rings are spaced further apart and as a result the light reflection appears segmented.
  • DreamwriterDreamwriter Posts: 1,101
    3Jane
    edited April 2016
    Lusca said:
    Now look at a bright star against the blackness of space. Or look around inside a dark space station. Actually play the game and you will see.
  • crim3crim3 Posts: 385
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2016
    Lusca said:
    If the effect is that bad, and cannot be fixed (soon), then I'll probably have to switch to the Vive. Elite Dangerous is my favourite game and the reason I ordered a CV1. I'd like to hear more from the ED community to see how bad it is.
    Don't forget Vive has the problem too, it's just a little different.

    Quite different I would say, and probably more annoying.


    I think it's something we'll have to train our brains to ignore, like the SDE in the DK2, and hope it will be gone or reduced in the next iteration... like the SDE in the DK2.
  • DavidCDavidC Posts: 39
    Brain Burst
    edited April 2016
    My CV1 was delivered yesterday and the flaring issue is my one big disappointment. Everything else is great (reduced SDE, the headphones, lightweight headset, reduced cable mess, much better tracking range) but I've found the god-ray flares very apparent  in Oculus home and this really annoys me as it's the first thing you see every time you put the headset on.

    The reason it annoys me is that Oculus have talked about the challenges in VR, giving devs the time and support to work around those challenges such as VR sickness, menu design, etc. Yet the one piece of software that Oculus has written specifically for their hardware that every user has to use every time has not been designed in a way that prevents these damn God Rays on the Rift lenses.

    I would like to see a poll of CV1 owners with regards to this flare issue as I'm keen to see whether it affects all units or whether there is an issue with the manufacturing tolerances of the lenses. There have been many reviews saying that they're not an issue, but we have many actual owners starting to say the opposite.
  • crim3crim3 Posts: 385
    Nexus 6
    edited April 2016
    DavidC said:
    I would like to see a poll of CV1 owners with regards to this flare issue as I'm keen to see whether it affects all units or whether there is an issue with the manufacturing tolerances of the lenses. There have been many reviews saying that they're not an issue, but we have many actual owners starting to say the opposite.
    That's a good idea. Eager to add to the poll once mine arrives. It will take time though :/

    I still remember when Palmer used to say on MTBS that Fresnel lenses are simply not a good fit for VR. I wonder how many people inside Oculus is not happy with the decision; if any.
  • ThreeDeeVisionThreeDeeVision Posts: 2,087
    Wintermute
    The flares are a side effect of the frensel lenses, it isn't a defect.  Both the Rift and the Vive have the flares in high contrast situations, although each HMD differs a bit due to the spacing in the frensel lens ridges.  The Vive has wider gaps between the ridges so there are gaps in the flares.  The Rift's lenses flare a little more, but the tighter ridges mitigate the screendoor better.  Elite Dangerous has a lot of flaring in both HMD's due to the bright HUD and dark cockpit.  I think the game still looks beautiful though because the screendoor is reduced so much.  Many games have a more even color tone and you never see flares and get the full benefit of the frensel lenses.
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