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HTC Vive Reviews Thread

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  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    I received Vive tracking number last night. I see some vacation time in my very near future. :smiley: 
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • DrOculusDrOculus Posts: 192
    VizionVR Nice, you got anywhere you would like to go? Hover Junkers holiday resort?


  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    edited April 2016
    Thanks @Atmos73
    DrOculus said:
    Zoomie said:
    Definitely hope it's the room-scanner that has been hinted at.  I'm still not sure why the Rift doesn't have a front camera.  I love the rest of the features, but the missing camera baffles me.

    What's the room within the room DrOculus?

    A 3D mapped virtual version of the real world room you are stood in
    This would be sweet! So many ideas can come from this. I need to keep my hype in check. Quick, @ThreeDeeVision, tell me how shitty the Vive is!
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    Wintermute
    Zoomie said:
    Definitely hope it's the room-scanner that has been hinted at.  I'm still not sure why the Rift doesn't have a front camera.  I love the rest of the features, but the missing camera baffles me.

    What's the room within the room DrOculus?

    Does it need one? I don't think it does. That pass through Camera does not offer anything really useful to be honest and if it comes to room mapping and seeing what is out there, the same can be achieved and most likely done better, with external camera's.
  • ZoomieZoomie Posts: 1,777 Valuable Player

    I said this earlier Syrellaris, but I think the pass through camera has the potential to do some pretty neat stuff.  The simple functions of pass through falls into the "neat" category for me and isn't really a showstopper in the current form.  To me, seeing Tron mode and lifting the headset are both immersion breaking.  Since I'm breaking immersion, I may as well do it in full colour super HD.

    However, I think it has a LOT of potential.  It's all down to whether Valve can figure out how to map the room with a single camera, and then whether developers can use that function creatively.  I keep hoping we'll see something creative from the PebblesVR and NimbleVR acquisition, but for now the front camera equipped HMD's (Vive and GearVR) stand to benefit with a cool new feature set if they can figure it out.



    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C Clarke
  • Chewie71Chewie71 Posts: 142
    edited April 2016
    Zoomie said:
    Definitely hope it's the room-scanner that has been hinted at.  I'm still not sure why the Rift doesn't have a front camera.  I love the rest of the features, but the missing camera baffles me.

    What's the room within the room DrOculus?

    Does it need one? I don't think it does. That pass through Camera does not offer anything really useful to be honest and if it comes to room mapping and seeing what is out there, the same can be achieved and most likely done better, with external camera's.
    Yeah, passthrough cameras are way overrated. The same can be done by looking through the nose gap. :mrgreen:
    And as far as room mapping with the potential of photogrammetry. Who needs it when you can just plunk down hundreds more for some third party solution?
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,072 Valuable Player
    Syrellaris is downplaying Vive probably not from experience of owning one correct me if I am wrong? He might change his tune if or when he gets to use one. It's the old adage "don't knock it if you haven't tried it". 

    I think the takeaway here is, until you use it first hand you're not going to know fully how practical these things are and can only speculate. On paper they might not sound so great but when you're faced with scenarios where they become useful then you can appreciate their inclusion.

    In both instances - answering the phone in VR and the camera passthrough to see outside of VR have been pretty useful to me in practice. 

    Here's another practical example of how useful the camera is.

    You finish a game or app, and the camera view allows you to safely put down the wands on a chair or sofa/table whatever, before taking off the HMD. If you take the HMD off before you put down the wands you've got a potential to hit yourself in the face with the wands, or worse damage the casing of the HMD.

    The same if you've put on the HMD before switching on the Wands. The camera allows you to easily locate them.






    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • ZoomieZoomie Posts: 1,777 Valuable Player

    You joke Chewie71, but sometimes the simple solutions beat the elegant ones.  There's an urban myth that NASA spent millions of dollars designing and building a pen that wrote in space while the Soviets just handed their Cosmonauts pencils. 

    It's a funny story, but the NASA astronauts took special pens because the graphite in 'lead' pencils would get into the air and float around.

    My solution for not having a front camera is to look through the nose-gap, just like I do with the DK2.  It's hardly elegant, but it'll work for now.  In this case - like a pencil vs the NASA pen - it ignores the really cool technological innovation that front cameras offer.  I agree that the front camera is a big plus for Vive and other HMD's.  I don't think Sony is putting one on the PSVR are they?  I'm baffled why Oculus removed it from their final design - simply because of the potential it offers.  Right now Oculus seem focused on perfecting existing features.  Valve/HTC seem to be on the ragged edge, stuffing new tech into their HMD whenever possible and accepting less polish as a necessary evil.  (Not to be confused with less Polish)

    @DrOculus Thanks.  So is the intent that you could have something like a coffee table within the play area or are you just mapping things beyond the designated safe zone?  Is this something Valve has hinted at or is there code hidden in their SDK?

    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C Clarke
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    Wintermute
    Syrellaris is downplaying Vive probably not from experience of owning one correct me if I am wrong? He might change his tune if or when he gets to use one. It's the old adage "don't knock it if you haven't tried it". 

    I think the takeaway here is, until you use it first hand you're not going to know fully how practical these things are and can only speculate. On paper they might not sound so great but when you're faced with scenarios where they become useful then you can appreciate their inclusion.

    In both instances - answering the phone in VR and the camera passthrough to see outside of VR have been pretty useful to me in practice. 

    Here's another practical example of how useful the camera is.

    You finish a game or app, and the camera view allows you to safely put down the wands on a chair or sofa/table whatever, before taking off the HMD. If you take the HMD off before you put down the wands you've got a potential to hit yourself in the face with the wands, or worse damage the casing of the HMD.

    The same if you've put on the HMD before switching on the Wands. The camera allows you to easily locate them.




    I am not downplaying anything at all. I think the Vive, just like the Rift is a great product. I can see clearly how both headsets appeal to people and no matter which one someone buys, they will be happy with it.

    I simply do not see the potential in the pass through camera, because I know that for most functions one would use it, it can be done better with external camera's. (for the other person, external camera's don't automatically have to mean they are more expensive).

    Also on a lighter note(more jokingly), in that last example someone must really have bad spacial awareness and motor skills if they can't put down anything without seeing or hitting them self in the face with the wands while taking off the headset. yikes!
  • Chewie71Chewie71 Posts: 142
    edited April 2016

    I simply do not see the potential in the pass through camera, because I know that for most functions one would use it, it can be done better with external camera's. (for the other person, external camera's don't automatically have to mean they are more expensive).
    I guess I don't understand what you mean by external camera VS. passthrough. Are you saying it's easier to navigate a room from a static third person perspective? Because no, it's absolutely not. Or are you saying something attached to the headset, like Leap Motion, which adds not only weight and throws off the distribution, but also requires an added USB cable to be stretched to yet another USB port on the PC. And it costs additional money and setup to get it to work. And Leap Motion doesn't do room scale edge detection. It's a far simpler design to just include the camera in the HMD and be done with it.

    Maybe I should back up here. Did you know that the Vive camera is capable of doing more than passthrough video?
  • ThreeDeeVisionThreeDeeVision Posts: 2,087
    Wintermute
    edited April 2016
    @Shadowmask72 That is exactly what I use the passthrough camera for.  After exiting the game, the camera comes on in the Vive menu and is tied to the right controller.  I spot the place where I set my controllers and put them down, then remove the HMD.  It works really slick and I never have to try and glance out of the nose gap (which the Vive doesn't even have).
    i7 5960X @ 3.8 GHz | Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 PC2800 | GTX Titan X Pascal | Win 10 64 bit | Asus ROG PG348Q | EVGA X99 Classified
  • DrOculusDrOculus Posts: 192
    Zoomie It was just a wild guess at the minute so no ref Valve or sdk`s just the Imagination




  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    Wintermute
    Chewie71 said:

    I simply do not see the potential in the pass through camera, because I know that for most functions one would use it, it can be done better with external camera's. (for the other person, external camera's don't automatically have to mean they are more expensive).
    I guess I don't understand what you mean by external camera VS. passthrough. Are you saying it's easier to navigate a room from a static third person perspective? Because no, it's absolutely not. Or are you saying something attached to the headset, like Leap Motion, which adds not only weight and throws off the distribution, but also requires an added USB cable to be stretched to yet another USB port on the PC. And it costs additional money and setup to get it to work. And Leap Motion doesn't do room scale edge detection. It's a far simpler design to just include the camera in the HMD and be done with it.

    Maybe I should back up here. Did you know that the Vive camera is capable of doing more than passthrough video?
    Yes I am aware the Camera can do more then just pass through.. It is still a weak Camera though.

    I'm talking more about room mapping and everything.
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
     
    Chewie71 said:

    I simply do not see the potential in the pass through camera, because I know that for most functions one would use it, it can be done better with external camera's. (for the other person, external camera's don't automatically have to mean they are more expensive).
    I guess I don't understand what you mean by external camera VS. passthrough. Are you saying it's easier to navigate a room from a static third person perspective? Because no, it's absolutely not. Or are you saying something attached to the headset, like Leap Motion, which adds not only weight and throws off the distribution, but also requires an added USB cable to be stretched to yet another USB port on the PC. And it costs additional money and setup to get it to work. And Leap Motion doesn't do room scale edge detection. It's a far simpler design to just include the camera in the HMD and be done with it.

    Maybe I should back up here. Did you know that the Vive camera is capable of doing more than passthrough video?
    Yes I am aware the Camera can do more then just pass through.. It is still a weak Camera though.

    I'm talking more about room mapping and everything.
    On what information are you basing your opinion? You can't just toss out an unrealistic, ethereal statement unless you're trolling to disrupt a Vive thread. Details, man, details. What do you mean by "weak"? What is this mystical external camera that you speak of?
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    Wintermute
    @VizionVR what exactly is unrealistic? That the specifications of the Vive's front facing camera are nothing to write home about? for the rest I've never stated that the Vive was a bad device, in fact I've oftenly stated it is equal to the Rift. So please, stop your standard response to someone having an opinion on a part of the Vive as trolling.

    There is also no 'mystical' camera, I merely stated it can be done better by external camera's. I take it you understand what 'external' means?



  • VizionVR said:
    I received Vive tracking number last night. I see some vacation time in my very near future. :smiley: 
    Hey Vizion, congrats.  What was your shipping window?  I ordered my Vive back in mid-March and got a May window.  Was HTC on point with that estimate for you?  I can't wait for this thing to arrive already.  Enjoy!
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    @rat8cheese
    I initially thought I was in first wave April, but when I went back and noticed my shipping confirmation was 26 minutes after I placed my order, I didn't expect my Vive till end of April. So a mid-April delivery is a pleasant surprise. HTC has exceeded my expectations regarding shipping.
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    edited April 2016
    @VizionVR what exactly is unrealistic? That the specifications of the Vive's front facing camera are nothing to write home about? for the rest I've never stated that the Vive was a bad device, in fact I've oftenly stated it is equal to the Rift. So please, stop your standard response to someone having an opinion on a part of the Vive as trolling.

    There is also no 'mystical' camera, I merely stated it can be done better by external camera's. I take it you understand what 'external' means?
    "What exactly is unrealistic?"
    Your vague assertions based on zero information is unrealistic. Other than mentioning pass-through video, you literally have displayed zero knowledge about the Vive camera and its capabilities.

    "That the specifications of the Vive's front facing camera are nothing to write home about."

    What are the specifications of Vive's front facing camera? What all can it do? A lot of us are dying to find out. Educate us.

    "I merely stated it can be done better by external camera's."
    Again, WHAT can be done better by WHAT external cameras? Stop being so vague.

    "Stop your standard response to someone having an opinion on a part of the Vive as trolling."
    If it smells like a troll and grumbles like a troll...
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    VizionVR said:
    I received Vive tracking number last night. I see some vacation time in my very near future. :smiley: 
    Hey Vizion, congrats.  What was your shipping window?  I ordered my Vive back in mid-March and got a May window.  Was HTC on point with that estimate for you?  I can't wait for this thing to arrive already.  Enjoy!
    I ordered mine in mid-March too, and also have a May window (UK). Hopefully HTC continue to ship in advance of expectations. I have 8 days holiday to take before the end of May!
  • Synthetic said:
    people are going to regret getting vive at a later date, just my $899 opinion
    No they're not. Vives full room scale can be judged NOW and it has been, often quite favorably. I mention this as it's the only true differences between the two.

    we don't know what oculus touch will do or how well it will be but right now you'll need at least another ir tracker for oculus to match full room scale. 

    Thatll add  to its overall price which could be well over 899$. 
  • ZoomieZoomie Posts: 1,777 Valuable Player
    edited April 2016
    Dangerous2women The Touch comes with a second camera.  Developers who have the Touch dev kit say it works just as well as Vive, up to about 4x4m, where cameras are placed Vive-style in opposite corners to optimize coverage.

    Chances are the Touch will be priced to keep Rift and Vive very close.  My money is on $200 for the Touch.
    I'm also hoping they'll ship the second (Touch bundle) camera with a longer cord to allow kitty corner placement.  Valve definitely got the camera placement right for minimizing the occlusion umbra.

    As for right now, the two big differences are that Vive has Wands at release, and it has the front camera.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C Clarke
  • Ryder35Ryder35 Posts: 66
    Hiro Protagonist
    Wow, just got my "we are about to finalize your order" email from HTC. Ordered beginning of April and thanks to a "feature" of Digital River's order system got an April Wave 2 shipping date. So excited.

    Ordered my rift on order day at 20 minutes and have late May estimate. Make of that what you will.
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,708 Volunteer Moderator
    I think CV1 will do room scale well, but room scale won't be good... may not even be worth doing even... without Touch. So the question for us CV1 users is... WHEN sorry, when will we get Touch?
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.720)
  • Chewie71Chewie71 Posts: 142
     Wow! looks like Monday is the day for a lot of order arrivals.
  • VizionVRVizionVR Posts: 3,022
    Wintermute
    Digital Foundry review with some Rift comparison. It's a fair review that calls out positive/negatives for each device.


    Not a Rift fanboi. Not a Vive fanboi. I'm a VR fanboi. Get it straight.
  • ZoomieZoomie Posts: 1,777 Valuable Player
    edited April 2016
    Thanks for posting this.  One of the more informed and unbiased video reviews I've seen.

    My takeaways: 
    My reason for preferring the Touch design (without having tried either) suddenly clicked.  To me, the Vive wands look like holding a remote control or laser pointer that is used to interact with the environment.  In many applications so far, the controller is pictured in the game and the top of the controller is what interacts.  You're interacting with an object that interacts with the world.

    Games like Job simulator are the stand-outs, where your hands DO interact directly.  From what I've seen of the Touch, they remove that "tool" for interaction and allow you to interact directly.  I guess I'll have to wait a few months to see if my instincts are correct.  For games where you're always using a gun or sword, it's not a big deal.
    I hope developers move away from the 'use a tool to interact" mode of design.

    Can Touch do room scale interactions?  I'd say it has to.  Oculus must get it working in order to level the playing field.  People who tried Touch at games conferences have already said it did room-scale just fine.  Developers have likewise said it works.  I think they delayed it because they want 100% reliability.  The capability is there, but they want to make it fool proof.  Look at how much effort they've put into making the HMD simple to use and now apply that to hand controls.  

    Every review of the Vive loves room scale.  Oculus definitely needs to catch up soon.
    Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
    - Arthur C Clarke
  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    Zoomie said:

    You joke Chewie71, but sometimes the simple solutions beat the elegant ones.  There's an urban myth that NASA spent millions of dollars designing and building a pen that wrote in space while the Soviets just handed their Cosmonauts pencils. 

    Doesn't the PSVR just let you flip up the front of the visor? I thought I read that somewhere. To me, that seems the most elegant solution.
  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    I'm getting both.  I have to admit that this forum is like a breath of fresh air.  If you go to Reddit, there is a lot of manure being flung back and forth.  It's painful to see either side getting bashed.  It's also getting very political in ways I'll avoid mentioning here.

    I was originally just going to get the Rift.  I saw the Vive for the first time during the CES coverage last year.  The only thing that turned me off of it were the Vive fans constantly bashing the Rift.  Someone telling me "If you're getting the Rift, you're not getting REAL VR."  That wasn't really selling me on it.  It was just making me defensive.  Why would I want to become one of those people?  Even worse is when you hear inaccurate statements.

    It really wasn't until I finally found a reasonable conversation about both with people who were buying both that finally sold me on actually trying both.  Like someone said, if we can afford it, we should really want to try everything we can get our hands on.  I started imagining being able to try all the content featured at CES and GDC and my geekiness went into overdrive...just imagine  lightning and thunder striking, followed by the song, "I want it all" by Queen playing.

    After reading this thread, I'm very excited about getting the Vive again.  I have an entire room in my basement to use, and with the drop ceiling to connect them to, I can actually run the sync cable.  I won't have to rely on them seeing each other.  

    Right now, I'm expecting Vive to be a temporary stop-gap until we get touch for Rift.  Of course what I expect and what actually happens could be different.  If I have both, I can see two different use cases for each of them.  That being said, I do intended to set up the Vive in a seated configuration to see how well it works.  I'm definitely going to do an A/B comparison, especially after Touch comes out.
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