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Should Oculus say sorry to it's loyal customers and backers by means of compensation?

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  • Felixm477Felixm477 Posts: 131
    Art3mis
    Percy1983 said:
    I can't remember Oculus ever promising me next day delivery.

    As it is I was expecting to pay £30 for shipping of some sort and got free shipping of some sort.

    I will say I do now have my rift but I can genuinely say my opinion didn't have before or after I got mine.

    ie, I was told there was a delay... no problem I will just get on with.. you know... life...

    I was told it shipping on a Thursday, I didn't get it until Tuesday due to a bank holiday, oh well It was a nice weekend with and extra day off work... I had fun rather than sitting at home mashing F5 expecting a different result each time.

    They do say that is a sign of insanity, trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    Maybe I am just too laid back, or maybe there is more to my life than rift ownership...
    i never could understand the NEED for F5 mashing, you either get it when u get it, or don't. Maybe im too understanding for this group lol
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    edited May 2016
    @Percy1983  A sign of ignorance is refusing to acknowledge issues right infront of your face.

    1) Quote Irebe - "  First set of Rifts are going out slower than we orig estimated, so we're giving free shipping for all pre-orders, including international." - keyword giving, nowhere does it say that our expedited shipping (the only option ever given) would be taken away. We originally paid for that shipping, so no rational person would think. well I guess free shipping means they aren't going to go with only method we have been told they are using so far. 

    EDIT - The email says "we'll be covering shipping and handling costs for all orders placed through today." covering meaning they will pay the bill we already had. meaning we keep our expedited shipping

    2) Even then, they didn't inform us that they would be changing shipping to ground until people starting noticing and called them out. 

    3) We were told we would get shipping dates 'soon" after preorders opened, March 28th no shipping dates. 

    4) We were told pre orders and kickstarters would be shipping out friday and monday the 28th, well, except for that one guy in Alaska. that didn't happen. 

    5) We were told literally at the 11th hour on the 27th that preorders would not go out until later that week. 

    6) We weren't told about the component shortage or stock issues until a week or more after launch. When this is information they definitely had prior to the 28th and could've communicated to pre orders before everyone got upset because they didnt know anything about their march estimated $600+ order. 

    7) how about the fact we got more information from reddit then oculus about what was going on? 

    now, you can address any one of these concerns, or continue to ignore it like you all do. Once I was actually told about what was going on I was ok with it. April 12th I was fine with the news I wouldnt get my rift till June. All I ever wanted was some communication and transparency as to what was going on. and thats the real issue. I don't care that it is delayed or that they downgraded shipping to make it free. I care that they didnt say anything or communicate that this was happening until it was absolutely necessary to do so. That is not how you treat your customers. 
  • Felixm477Felixm477 Posts: 131
    Art3mis
    JED44 said:
    @Percy1983  A sign of ignorance is refusing to acknowledge issues right infront of your face.

    1) Quote Irebe - "  First set of Rifts are going out slower than we orig estimated, so we're giving free shipping for all pre-orders, including international." - keyword giving, nowhere does it say that our expedited shipping (the only option ever given) would be taken away. We originally paid for that shipping, so no rational person would think. well I guess free shipping means they aren't going to go with only method we have been told they are using so far. 

    EDIT - The email says "we'll be covering shipping and handling costs for all orders placed through today." covering meaning they will pay the bill we already had. meaning we keep our expedited shipping



    Glass is half empty arguement on what they consider covering shipping. Should never assume they are going to pay for super ultra shipping, especially when shipping a UPS package 2 day air same dimensions is 92 dollars!
    according to UPS expedited shipping is a whole 1 day more thank ground in most areas, woe is me!
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    @Shadowmask72 lol funnily enough thats how food price promotions in supermarkets work ... 
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  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @Felixm477 again, the shipping is not the issue. the communication is. I don't really know how many times I have to say that. If they were downgrading to ground  why didn't they just say that in the email "we will be covering shipping, however in order to do this we will be using UPS ground, which will only increase the delivery date by a few days. If you would rather pay for and keep your expedited shipping. we will allow you to do so.", would that really have been so hard to say? answer me that. 
  • ZoomieZoomie Posts: 1,777 Valuable Player
    JED44, all of those are perfectly reasonable complaints.  You've now posted them here, several times, and I for one acknowledge your frustration.  But most of these things happened over a month ago and they've been discussed here on the forums ad nauseam.  

    There comes a point where we need to forgive it and move on.  The push-back you're seeing from some people isn't because these complaints are untrue or unjustified, they're just something they're tired of talking about.   
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  • Felixm477Felixm477 Posts: 131
    Art3mis
    JED44 said:
    @Felixm477 again, the shipping is not the issue. the communication is. I don't really know how many times I have to say that. If they were downgrading to ground  why didn't they just say that in the email "we will be covering shipping, however in order to do this we will be using UPS ground, which will only increase the delivery date by a few days. If you would rather pay for and keep your expedited shipping. we will allow you to do so.", would that really have been so hard to say? answer me that. 
    then why bring up the shipping? if they lacked communication on something you didnt care about you wouldn't point it out. So you clearly care about shipping. Oculus has done what it can given the situation, some of the people  here  are just expecting too much and being pushy with their expectations. If everyone votes with their wallet next gen and goes somewhere else that is fine its a personal choice, but it does not need to be constantly brought up here. Now if next gen people still buy a cv2 after the effort they put into complaining here well then i now know maybe we should call the domestic abuse hotline :)
  • zsciaeountzsciaeount Posts: 2
    NerveGear
    Here's my take as a day-one, hour-one CV1 preorder.  Please keep in mind that I am no stranger to investing in a new technology that gets delayed and delayed.  I collect pinball machines, and I've sometimes waited more than 2 years for a new $8500 pinball machine to arrive.  With my Wizard of Oz pinball machine, I waited for several years for my LE to arrive, while distributors and retail outlets got their machines ahead of me.  I was 6th in line for the Big Lebowski Pinball machine, and yet, there will be several people who ordered after me receiving their orders first.

    I am not upset.  I am not outraged.

    And why?  Because companies like Jersey Jack and Dutch Pinball have kept me in the loop.  When production delays hit, I knew about it right away.  When the ship date looked like it was going to slip, they let me know in advance.  When they hit a production snag with a supplier for the Limited Edition games, and decided to focus on delivering standard machines to retail, they let me know why this was happening, and they recognized the frustration.

    What these pinball companies DIDN'T do is hold out on me or keep me in the dark.  They didn't let me know that they weren't hitting a target after the advertised ship date came and went.  They didn't wait for days to explain the problems they were having, or refuse to provide clarity about how shipments would be allocated.  And they sure as s#!t didn't try to tell us that the pre-order delays and forging ahead with retail was somehow "good news."

    And that's the difference here.  I am much more upset about a 2 month delay for my $600 Oculus than I was about any of the delays on $8500 pinball machines.

    Oculus has delayed, obfuscated, dicked around, and then somehow tried to crap in our mouths and convince us it's a sundae.

    Offering free shipping would have been a nice gesture if it remained free expedited shipping.  But, the OP is right, giving us free $8 shipping instead of expedited shipping as we originally agreed hardly seems like fair recompense for this absolute cock-up in shipping and customer service.

    So, I agree with the OP.  Oculus SHOULD do more.  We should get free expedited shipping... that's completely reasonable.  I think a voucher for a free game from the Oculus store would also be reasonable.  That's what Sony and Microsoft have done.  For Oculus, that's a fairly small investment, since they wouldn't be paying the same price we are.  So, 1-2 vouchers or a couple of free games beyond the pack-ins is ENTIRELY reasonable.
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @Zoomie Thank you for responding in the way you did, I can understand that. Given the topic of post I brought it up, and due to continuing arguments I brought out the evidence I had. If i am repeating things it is because as you put it people are tired of hearing it, or dont want to respond to it, and thus none of the points are actually being responded to. It honestly ends up feeling like people are ignoring it to suit their comments. and that aggravates me.

    @Felixm477  I bring up the shipping becuase it is the most recent and most tangible example of a lack of communication and honestly it feels like a slight and an insult to me and to many others. It was supposed to be a token of apology for the mess and then it become, oh wait, we didnt tell you we were altering the deal?? I honestly dont care about shipping in and of itself. but the principle that that action set really aggravates me. and I have pointed out almost all the major instances I know of even if it didn't necessarily aggravate me because they all create a precedent and show that such behavior can be overlooked and repeated in the future. 

    Many of us were excited for oculus because it felt like it was something people had a part in bringing about, and because of the communication that was seen between regular gamers, devs, and Oculus itself. It was nice to be able to communicate with people like Palmer Luckey. I would venture to say that alot of people were expecting things to be different then how they are, and it personally upsets me that such a negative precedent is being set by this launch and the lack of communication and transparency set by oculus. I wanted to see VR go off as much as anyone else did, but I cant say that this launch has in any way made me excited for or even very empathetic for Oculus. 
  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    Most certainly, they should have said 'sorry' more often. Words are free, but go a long way towards soothing ruffled feelings.  If I'd had more communication from Oculus simply apologising for the delays, they would probably still have my order. Free games? I'm not so sure. If Rift really is being sold at close to cost, Oculus need to sell a lot of games to start making money.
  • Nobbs66Nobbs66 Posts: 722
    3Jane
    notsram said:
    Most certainly, they should have said 'sorry' more often. Words are free, but go a long way towards soothing ruffled feelings.  If I'd had more communication from Oculus simply apologising for the delays, they would probably still have my order. Free games? I'm not so sure. If Rift really is being sold at close to cost, Oculus need to sell a lot of games to start making money.
    If they wanted to sell more games, then they should have opened up Vive support on day 1. 
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  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    Nobbs66 said:
    notsram said:
    Most certainly, they should have said 'sorry' more often. Words are free, but go a long way towards soothing ruffled feelings.  If I'd had more communication from Oculus simply apologising for the delays, they would probably still have my order. Free games? I'm not so sure. If Rift really is being sold at close to cost, Oculus need to sell a lot of games to start making money.
    If they wanted to sell more games, then they should have opened up Vive support on day 1. 
    I'm sure they have their reasons. But, as I've said before, if they chose not to support Vive, people will simply pirate the games and run them using the Revive wrapper.
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @zsciaeount You put it better then I could

    @felixm477 Additionally, I believed I have expressed this alot, but it really confuses and angers me that people seem to think that all of that is ok, that we aren't owed the time of day by Oculus and that somehow they can do no wrong. or that one apology, albeit one that was half taken away, is sufficient when they just keep making the same mistakes over and over. 
  • Lemming1970Lemming1970 Posts: 681
    Neo
    I'm sure there is a cancel button on the order page for anyone that is sooooo unhappy with the way the have been treated. 1ST world disaster at it's best.
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  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    JED44 said:
    @Percy1983  A sign of ignorance is refusing to acknowledge issues right infront of your face.

    1) Quote Irebe - "  First set of Rifts are going out slower than we orig estimated, so we're giving free shipping for all pre-orders, including international." - keyword giving, nowhere does it say that our expedited shipping (the only option ever given) would be taken away. We originally paid for that shipping, so no rational person would think. well I guess free shipping means they aren't going to go with only method we have been told they are using so far. 

    EDIT - The email says "we'll be covering shipping and handling costs for all orders placed through today." covering meaning they will pay the bill we already had. meaning we keep our expedited shipping

    2) Even then, they didn't inform us that they would be changing shipping to ground until people starting noticing and called them out. 

    3) We were told we would get shipping dates 'soon" after preorders opened, March 28th no shipping dates. 

    4) We were told pre orders and kickstarters would be shipping out friday and monday the 28th, well, except for that one guy in Alaska. that didn't happen. 

    5) We were told literally at the 11th hour on the 27th that preorders would not go out until later that week. 

    6) We weren't told about the component shortage or stock issues until a week or more after launch. When this is information they definitely had prior to the 28th and could've communicated to pre orders before everyone got upset because they didnt know anything about their march estimated $600+ order. 

    7) how about the fact we got more information from reddit then oculus about what was going on? 

    now, you can address any one of these concerns, or continue to ignore it like you all do. Once I was actually told about what was going on I was ok with it. April 12th I was fine with the news I wouldnt get my rift till June. All I ever wanted was some communication and transparency as to what was going on. and thats the real issue. I don't care that it is delayed or that they downgraded shipping to make it free. I care that they didnt say anything or communicate that this was happening until it was absolutely necessary to do so. That is not how you treat your customers. 
    This is pretty much why I cancelled and went with Vive. I pre-ordered mid-March (after all the rumours of Rift problems) and got an estimated date of May. My card was charged and my Vive arrived the first working day in May. No fuss, no excuses, no delays. And I don't regret changing sides on bit.
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @notsram I actually ordered my vive as an afterthought. I thought let me get it so I dont have to decide which is better. Though I would have never thought that I would get my vive first. Even after I had CC cancellation issues. I still got my vive within two weeks. I can say I was really ticked off about that as well. HTC wasnt communicating well on that either. But they delivered in a reasonable time frame and I have to say I am enjoying it much more than I thought I would. I originally thought roomscale was a gimmick. 
  • Percy1983Percy1983 Posts: 1,410
    Wintermute
    I will say here in the UK, it was just £30 shipping, no option for faster/slower and no more detail given for shipping, maybe it was different for others.

    As for them taking a few days to report the shortage, I do genuinely believe there was hope of getting it shorted up until they made the announcement, by which point they knew it wasn't recoverable. It could have gone either way, report it and find a solution then you have reported a non issue people kick off, wait until your certain you have a problem, people kick off.

    I really don't see any failings in the communication at any point, but I wasn't holding my breath waiting for updates was I.
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  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @Percy1983 I can understand that, however alot of people were very excited and for other reasons (vacations, work, moving, monetary issues) were expecting to get their rift when it was estimated to ship. A lack of information on such a big purchase is naturally going to upset people. 

    I also think they still could've kept people in the loop as to their shipping process. They knew the demand months in advance and knew how much stock they had and could produce. Even being conservative they had an idea of baselines. They had to have had them. So while I do think they were trying to solve it ( and we dont really know what it was so further speculation is just that), I really do think much more couldve been communicated to keep people in the loop and content. 

    I can certainty say that if they had come out and said, "we are still planning to begin delivering on the 28th, however this is how we are allocating stock and roughly how fast we expect to fulfill orders. This may mean that some orders will be fulfilled later then originally thought, but we are working on getting them out the door as fast as we can, so you can enjoy it, thank you for your patience" or something along those lines. either before or right after launch. I don't think anyone would have been as mad or vehement as they were. We all understood that this is bleeding edge tech and we cant expect a perfect launch. but it just felt like there was a blackout for far to long, and when we were given information it was half truths or otherwise unhelpful or dismissive of peoples concerns. 
  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    JED44 said:
    @notsram I actually ordered my vive as an afterthought. I thought let me get it so I dont have to decide which is better. Though I would have never thought that I would get my vive first. Even after I had CC cancellation issues. I still got my vive within two weeks. I can say I was really ticked off about that as well. HTC wasnt communicating well on that either. But they delivered in a reasonable time frame and I have to say I am enjoying it much more than I thought I would. I originally thought roomscale was a gimmick. 
    If you're going to meet a delivery target, then you don't need awesome communication. I received an email saying my card was about to be charged, then another saying my Vive was about to be despatched, then tracking details. Like I said, no fuss, drama  or delays.

    IMO, Vive is amazing. So glad I cancelled my Rift order. The controllers make any game feel SO much better, and I can't wait to move into a bigger room so that I can try proper roomscale :)
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @notsram I just wish there more multiplayer games. Currently I have E:D and Valiant, and I have to say Roomscale and VR in general with others is amazing. Also no matter how big your room is, you always need more. 
  • Percy1983Percy1983 Posts: 1,410
    Wintermute
    Interestingly my rift was shipping in the same period I saw when ordering.

    I think I have found where we differ,

    While you feel you need to be told that they are getting them out the door as fast as possible despite a delay.

    I was told there was a delay and filled in the gap knowing they will be working hard to sort it out asap.

    2 different thinking methods.
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  • notsramnotsram Posts: 1,238
    Wintermute
    JED44 said:
    @notsram I just wish there more multiplayer games. Currently I have E:D and Valiant, and I have to say Roomscale and VR in general with others is amazing. Also no matter how big your room is, you always need more. 
    I currently have around 1 metre x 1.8 metres. Come September, I'll have 3x3 metres plus :) Can't bloody wait!
  • Zoomie said:
    JED44, all of those are perfectly reasonable complaints.  You've now posted them here, several times, and I for one acknowledge your frustration.  But most of these things happened over a month ago and they've been discussed here on the forums ad nauseam.  

    There comes a point where we need to forgive it and move on.  The push-back you're seeing from some people isn't because these complaints are untrue or unjustified, they're just something they're tired of talking about.   
    Hi zoomie. 

    FAIR enough and more than likely true. 


    Im EQUALLY tired however of the never ending pushback recieved when one so much as make an inquiry, which is what was done here by the OP. 

    This plays into the fanaticism I wrote of. The guy asked a question and because the coven didn't like it, he was nearly eviscerated. 

    The turning the free shipping thing into ground shipping is particularly telling though. Very shady move on oculus part. 
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @Percy1983 its not that I felt the need to be told it. I know they wanted/want to get it out as fast as possible and are working on it. I just wanted the issues and in general those affected by them to be acknowledged by Oculus, instead of trying to pretend everything was fine, which they did for a while
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @Dangerous2women  God forbid you try to bring up any issues or question the way Oculus is operating. It's just ignored as "Anti Oculus" or "Vive - fanboy". People like Zenbane end up berating or acting condescending towards such people without actually listening to what they have to say. 
  • JED44JED44 Posts: 448 Poster of the Week
    @notsram Right now I'm at 3.3 x 2.3, until I can convince my family to get rid of the furniture..next is the interior walls...
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    Well mine is 2cm ........ oh ROOM Size ...... 
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  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,276
    3Jane
    edited May 2016
    I think they should have offered that free postage and maybe thrown in an Oculus Store discount coupon... only to those willing to have their pre-order pushed back to the end of the pre-order queue.

    Which would have cost them a lot less money (since most would have refused that offer), while still giving the impression they were doing a lot more (to speed up that pre-order queue).

    I would have refused that offer myself (try Free Touch controllers instead :P ), but would have felt it properly addressed the issue, of trying to make my own Rift arrive sooner : As it is, the free postage offer that was made is only more likely to have further delayed my delivery, and made it less safe (by switching from Air Mail to Ground Mail...), which is kind of the exact opposite of what I wanted to happen.
  • BucketsBuckets Posts: 68
    They've already done enough, free shipping saving you what? $40? 3 free games, free Rifts to backers... Give them a break. No more free stuff for you. 
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