Oculus Rift ANTI-PIRACY Update allows for even more Piracy — Oculus
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Oculus Rift ANTI-PIRACY Update allows for even more Piracy

MaxxgoldMaxxgold Posts: 351
Trinity
edited May 2016 in General
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/23/oculus-rift-anti-piracy-update-allows-for-even-more-piracy

BY JOE SKREBELS An Oculus Rift security update seen by many to be a response to Revive - the mod that allows players to play Oculus-exclusive games on the HTC Vive VR headset - has backfired, allowing for full-scale game piracy.

Talking to Motherboard, Revive's secretive developer, Libre VR explained that the update - which now includes a pre-game launch check to see if an Oculus is being used to play - actually allows for the entire security check to be bypassed.

It means that Revive can now technically be used to stop the system being able to tell if a copy of a game was legitimately acquired.

On Reddit, Libre VR said: "I still do not support piracy, do not use this library for pirated copies." He also confirmed that if he found a way to keep Revive's core functionality without bypassing the security checks and allowing for piracy, he would implement it.

When Revive was first released, Oculus told IGN: "This is a hack, and we don’t condone it. Users should expect that hacked games won’t work indefinitely, as regular software updates to games, apps, and our platform are likely to break hacked software."

It's likely that the company will now seek to counter this latest loophole sooner rather than later. IGN has reached out for comment.

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Comments

  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    the title of this post is click-bait misleading. 

    The person responsible for the Revive hack modified his hack to work with the latest version which inadvertedly (or perhaps not) also circumvents other things. 

    The update, which comes from Oculus has nothing to do with the actions of the person responsible for Revive. 

    And it doesn't allow anything, piracy is still illegal. 



  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    3Jane
    the title of this post is click-bait misleading. 

    The person responsible for the Revive hack modified his hack to work with the latest version which inadvertedly (or perhaps not) also circumvents other things. 

    The update, which comes from Oculus has nothing to do with the actions of the person responsible for Revive. 

    And it doesn't allow anything, piracy is still illegal. 



    Actually, if you read it and actually understood it then the developer of Revive removing DRM checks all together, is the result of Oculus stopping his program. In other words, Oculus has made the decision to prevent Revive from working and allowing oculus Home games on the vive.

    Honestly, Oculus did this intentionally because they want a closed system. It is rather obvious. Yet, Gamers do not want Closed Systems. It is one of the most hated things on Consoles and it will be one of the most hated things in VR.

    All together, that does ultimately lead to more Piracy, illegal or not.
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,134
    Wintermute
    Cue more fanboy whining when Revive is pulled from github for violating the DMCA.
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    edmg said:
    Cue more fanboy whining when Revive is pulled from github for violating the DMCA.
    Not really sure why since any real Vive fan is supposed to spit on non-roomscale games, I believe it says so it in the manual.

  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,134
    Wintermute
    I've been pointing out that inconsistency for a while. Asking why they want to play Oculus games when roomscale is the One True VR really seems to make Vive fanboys mad.
  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    edited May 2016
    It doesn't matter what anyone wants except for Oculus.  Just because you don't want it doesn't give you the right to break the law by going around DRM (I expect a cease and desist any day now).

    Seriously...do you own the company?

    What so many people fail to understand is there are no VR standards right now.  Zilch.  Zip.  Nada.  No standards.  There are no rules.  There is no Direct X for VR and no standard for tracking or controls.  So saying that Oculus shouldn't be doing what they're doing is irrelevant.  THERE ARE NO RULES HERE.  Both companies want to use their SDK's for this very reason.  No standards.   Using OpenVR would create a conflict of interest for Oculus because Valve OWNS AND CONTROLS OpenVR.  It's not open source at all.

    So until Valve lets Oculus support Vive directly from the Oculus 3.1 SDK, it's not going to happen.  Again, competing standards.  The weird thing is, we want this...we want to see more companies competing, because that is what leads to innovation.  Then once everyone can agree on the best standards, consortiums and partnerships evolve to solidify standards everyone uses.  But right now, expecting everything to work like a standard PC gaming market is not realistic.  So much else goes into VR beyond just the display.

    Think of this:  Frontier and Valve are STILL struggling to get Elite Dangerous to run smoothly on the Vive and to make the text readable.  Yet it took very little time to get it running on the Rift.  So there you go, obviously Oculus must be doing something better...and is a +1 for Oculus SDK in my book.  So maybe now Valve is motivated to try to improve....and that could only be something good for it's users.  We want this boxing match.  
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,089 Valuable Player
    edited May 2016
    I can't help but look at it like this. When I purchase a game, it's then up to me if I want to view it on my 42" Television/PC Monitor/Laptop. I know the VR device is doing more then just displaying, but not a lot of people are interested in what's under the hood. I think open VR on any headset is the best bet, because if you go into lockdown, then the ones which are more open to other devices will come out on top. They will sell more games etc. This is from someone who doesn't want to be tied to one headset though, so others might think differently.
  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    OpenVR can't access some of Oculus functionality. It doesn't support Asynchronous Time Warp which is what is responsible for never having dropped frames. It's also owned by Valve.

    I don't blame Oculus for wanting to use the SDK they spent time developing for their hardware.
  • jabjab Posts: 152
    Art3mis
    edited May 2016
    DRM is a fundamentally flawed concept, since it will only punish legal users with artificial limitations.

    And speaking from experience. Trying to DRM restrict the coder/hacker type, is almost guaranteed to backfire. Nothing motivates a hacker like having a previously open system closed in his face.

    Just look at what happened when Sony removed the Linux support on PS3. A feature nobody really cared about until they removed it.



  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    3Jane
    @CharlieHobbes Actually they did not close an "hack". Since Revive before this update still did DRM checks, it in fact was doing nothing illegal. Oculus closed it, because they don't want rift games working on a vive. This is what a closed system is and what Oculus apparently wants, even though they have said over and over again, they aren't going that route.

    They pretty much forced him to go the illegal route. If they had just left it as it is, no harm would have been done.
    Specially since both the vive and the rift are just screens.

    Also I never stated that Oculus is fully responsible, just partially. You can't really compare this to a house either...
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    @CharlieHobbes Actually they did not close an "hack". Since Revive before this update still did DRM checks, it in fact was doing nothing illegal. Oculus closed it, because they don't want rift games working on a vive. This is what a closed system is and what Oculus apparently wants, even though they have said over and over again, they aren't going that route.

    They pretty much forced him to go the illegal route. If they had just left it as it is, no harm would have been done.
    Specially since both the vive and the rift are just screens.

    Also I never stated that Oculus is fully responsible, just partially. You can't really compare this to a house either...
    Ah but you seem to be working from an initial flaw in your reasoning.

    it was a hack because it allowed a Vive, which is an unsupported device, to play content that was created to be played on a Rift. 

    Wether or not the player has purchased the game on Oculus home has no bearing on the fact that if Oculus decides that this software is not to be used with a Vive, any application that allows the software to run on a Vive is a hack. 

    If I buy an Xbox game I am not entitled to run it on a Playstation. Even if there was 3rd party software that would make this possible. 

    You are trying to make out as if Oculus is treading on your basic human rights, which they are not. 
    They are owners of a platform and as such they are allowed to do this, especially since it is clear that the Devs that built the software in the first place have agreed to launch software on the Oculus Home platform. 

    Your assertion that HMDs are just screens is fundamentally flawed and shows there are limits to your understanding of the current VR landscape. 

    You would be correct in saying the HMD is just a peripheral if it wasn't for the case of the SDK needed to drive the HMD and it's functionality. 

    If all this functionality was available much like a graphics driver in Windows then you could argue that the HMD is just the peripheral, currently however this is not yet the case (both for Vive and Oculus) so this does not apply. 

    I can compare this to a house, and you, like many others are essentially saying that an owner (in this case Oculus, owning the Oculus Home environment) has no say on who comes onto their property (in this case Vive users) 

    This is blatantly incorrect.

    The fact that you own a Vive does not mean you have a basic right to access all software for all platforms. 

    Now, moving on to the more interesting bit. 
    You can argue a case that locking Vive owners out of Oculus home is an unwise choice (unwise being different from violating some sort of right you cooked up in your mind) and that this will have consequences for the success of the Rift, or financial impact to Oculus. 

    in this you may be right and I would like to see a different approach too.

    This however does not change any of the above, and creating functionality where the platform owner does not want the functionality to exist is a textbook example of a hack. 

    Not only that but the creator of Revive apparently feels so entitled to create this functionality that he has now also broken an anti-piracy mechanic. 
    His claims of this somehow being Oculus' fault are ludicrous at best and borderline insane at worst. 

    Oculus does not force him to create a hack to circumvent a security they built in. 

    Contrary to popular believe there is no defense for software piracy as a form of civil disobedience, you are dealing with property law, not with an oppressive government where you could be entitled to disobey or even rebel if your rights were being tread on. 

    In the realm of software, you have no rights other than to choose not to buy the product if you do not like the owners policies. 

    Vote with your wallet, don't try to drive arguments based around false entitlement or rights that do not in fact exist.


  • SyntheticSynthetic Posts: 704
    Trinity
    only maybe 100 or so people know whats really going on

    the rest have read the story on the internet that puts the blame on oculus, which is wrong....

     all the negative posting about oculus has finally led to oculus being wrong by default no matter what they do

  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,753 Valuable Player

    Honestly, Oculus did this intentionally because they want a closed system. It is rather obvious. Yet, Gamers do not want Closed Systems. It is one of the most hated things on Consoles and it will be one of the most hated things in VR.
    By Gamers you specifically mean those pretentious "PC Master Race" types, right?

    "most hated things on consoles"   Only to people who look down on consoles to begin with.  Anyone who has ever owned and loved a gaming console is looking at all this melodrama and going, "Why is this even a big deal? Platform exclusivity is not a new thing, not even on PC, and it's natural for companies to oppose the piracy of their software."

    The PC Master Race thinks they should own VR and dictate what it's supposed to be just because it requires high-end PCs?  Sorry, VR is a brand new medium and it's not going to be held back by the unwritten rules of PC gaming.
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    jab said:
    I don't quite understand why this article keeps being linked to as the author is clearly going into the article with an attitude strongly based in his personal opinion and an incorrect premise. 

    He seems to feel that the existence of Revive is justified just because Oculus chooses to close off their store for the Vive (for now) 

    This is a false premise, Oculus has every right to choose to do so and the existence of Revive is not justified. 

    Boohoo, a hack stopped working. Let's jump on the Oculus hate wagon and get some clicks.
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    3Jane
    CrashFu said:

    Honestly, Oculus did this intentionally because they want a closed system. It is rather obvious. Yet, Gamers do not want Closed Systems. It is one of the most hated things on Consoles and it will be one of the most hated things in VR.
    By Gamers you specifically mean those pretentious "PC Master Race" types, right?

    "most hated things on consoles"   Only to people who look down on consoles to begin with.  Anyone who has ever owned and loved a gaming console is looking at all this melodrama and going, "Why is this even a big deal? Platform exclusivity is not a new thing, not even on PC, and it's natural for companies to oppose the piracy of their software."

    The PC Master Race thinks they should own VR and dictate what it's supposed to be just because it requires high-end PCs?  Sorry, VR is a brand new medium and it's not going to be held back by the unwritten rules of PC gaming.
    Any gamers, consoles, pc etc. Content locked to a specific console or just to pc is stupid and is the most hated thing in the Gaming Community.  I don't know how you found "pc master race"  in that.. Btw, for your information, i detest these so called PC Master race kiddies.
  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 1,035
    3Jane
    @Charliehobbes ; Sorry, I respectfully, fully disagree with you. Also, I do know that the Rift requires and SDK, I also know what an SDK is and even so, the Rift is still a screen and not a platform like say, the playstation 4. Specially so, since Oculus Home is not required to make the Rift work.


  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    CrashFu said:

    Honestly, Oculus did this intentionally because they want a closed system. It is rather obvious. Yet, Gamers do not want Closed Systems. It is one of the most hated things on Consoles and it will be one of the most hated things in VR.
    By Gamers you specifically mean those pretentious "PC Master Race" types, right?

    "most hated things on consoles"   Only to people who look down on consoles to begin with.  Anyone who has ever owned and loved a gaming console is looking at all this melodrama and going, "Why is this even a big deal? Platform exclusivity is not a new thing, not even on PC, and it's natural for companies to oppose the piracy of their software."

    The PC Master Race thinks they should own VR and dictate what it's supposed to be just because it requires high-end PCs?  Sorry, VR is a brand new medium and it's not going to be held back by the unwritten rules of PC gaming.
    Any gamers, consoles, pc etc. Content locked to a specific console or just to pc is stupid and is the most hated thing in the Gaming Community.  I don't know how you found "pc master race"  in that.. Btw, for your information, i detest these so called PC Master race kiddies.
    Fortunately being hated for certain behaviours and being succesful in business aren't mutually exclusive. 
  • wundramwundram Posts: 17
    NerveGear
    I agree that it was kind of a dick move to put the DRM bypass into the latest version of Revive.   And I don't think Oculus has any obligation to make Oculus Home work with other HMDs.    Wide spread piracy could kill the VR market before it starts.   We already know it is a big issue with PC games in general.   So releasing this DRM bypass was not a good thing for anyone in the long term.

    On the other hand, VR is a new and delicate market.   And there are a small number of HMD owners out there,   Locking out half the market on your platform is not going to be great for developers who are trying to get as large a market as possible, and it isn't great for users who can't easily play all the games available.

    I think at this point the Valve/Steam open model is the best for everyone involved.  

    Oculus has an issue that they are subsidizing the development of some titles, and if they give those titles away for free to everyone, then they lose the incentive they were trying to create to get people to buy rifts so they could get titles like Lucky's Tale.     They could just give codes to everyone with a registered rift, and make Vive owners pay for those titles.     Or at the very least, only implement the HMD check in Home on Oculus Studio games, and leave it off for third party games.


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,948 Valuable Player
    lol - there are some folks using terms like "hack" with a background on the matter that stems from watching The Matrix trilogy. If you're gonna pretend to understand the topic at hand (which was accurately called 'click bait') then at least watch the entire first season of Mr. Robot, goodness!
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    @Charliehobbes ; Sorry, I respectfully, fully disagree with you. Also, I do know that the Rift requires and SDK, I also know what an SDK is and even so, the Rift is still a screen and not a platform like say, the playstation 4. Specially so, since Oculus Home is not required to make the Rift work.


    We will have to agree to disagree, because an HMD is not "just a screen"

    And while the full suite of Oculus Home isn't required to make the Rift work, it is still a Software platform owned by Oculus for them to manage as they see fit. 

    You are correct in this regard though, if a dev implements direct support for the SDK in their game it should be able to be launched outside of Oculus Home. 

    just like a game should be able to be launched outside of Steam.... Oh wait...

    I think you may need to go back to the drawing board on this one.


  • GigantoadGigantoad Posts: 395
    Nexus 6
    If an HMD is a platform, what is PSVR? A platform within a platform?

    The Rift is only a platform because Oculus chose to call it that. The Vive is never called a platform as far as i can tell. The platform is PC in that case, or maybe Steam. Although Steam kinda stands for the PC platform these days and is really just a store. Just like the Oculus store.

    But hey, that Oculus store has small chances to succeed anyway. Steam is a store for all PC games, meanwhile Oculus try to establish a store just for VR. Project Cars players can all play with each other on Steam, VR users can even play with regular players. How incredible is that.
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,134
    Wintermute
    edited May 2016
    Revive still works on Oculus SDK games that run from Steam. As I understand things, it just doesn't work on Oculus Home games.

    Which makes the whole 'scandal' doubly silly.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,948 Valuable Player
    edited May 2016
    That is complete falsehood @Gigantoad

    You should spend time understanding what a platform is before you allow a hardware device with lenses to trick you in to believing that it's just a screen.


    These days, you can’t go five minutes without hearing someone talk about platforms. The term is almost a buzzword. As I explain in The Age of the Platform: How Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google Have Redefined Business, a platform is merely a structure made up of “planks,” or integrated features. For instance, Google in 1998 wasn’t a platform; it was a really neat search engine. By adding planks such as Gmail, Maps, Docs, Voice, YouTube, and countless others, it became a true platform.

    http://www.inc.com/phil-simon/why-your-company-should-build-platform.html



    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • GigantoadGigantoad Posts: 395
    Nexus 6
    Zenbane said:
    That is complete falsehood @Gigantoad

    You should spend time understanding what a platform is before you allow a hardware device with lenses to trick you in to believing that it's just a screen.


    These days, you can’t go five minutes without hearing someone talk about platforms. The term is almost a buzzword. As I explain in The Age of the Platform: How Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google Have Redefined Business, a platform is merely a structure made up of “planks,” or integrated features. For instance, Google in 1998 wasn’t a platform; it was a really neat search engine. By adding planks such as Gmail, Maps, Docs, Voice, YouTube, and countless others, it became a true platform.

    http://www.inc.com/phil-simon/why-your-company-should-build-platform.html



    Yeah sure, if we're talking that kind of platform then my grandma is one too. I thought we were talking about gaming platform, which is usually pretty clear cut. PS4 is one. PC is one. Android and iPhone are each a platform that has their own native OS and code. if you want your game to be released on both, you need to compile for both and adhere to their standards etc. Users know that they cannot migrate their iPhone game to their new Android phone.

    So what's an HMD? A peripheral with drivers and an SDK. It doesn't have its own OS, I don't need to compile my game for the Rift, i still compile it for PC with added support for the HMD. Just like I may need to support a steering wheel or a joystick. There is no platform unless Oculus makes a store and decides to call it that. There is no need for a store in order for games to run on the CV1, just as little as it was needed to run games on DK1/DK2.
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    Gigantoad said:
     The platform is PC in that case, or maybe Steam. Although Steam kinda stands for the PC platform these days and is really just a store. Just like the Oculus store.

    This is where I have to stop taking you seriously. 

    "Steam kinda stands for the PC platform these days" 

    Congratulations, Gabe has you. 
    You apparently consider a for-profit digital distribution store to actually BE all things PC. 

    following that up with "is really just a store" doesn't remove your foot from your mouth. 

    Steam = PC gaming for you, I get it. 

  • GigantoadGigantoad Posts: 395
    Nexus 6
    edited May 2016
    Gigantoad said:
     The platform is PC in that case, or maybe Steam. Although Steam kinda stands for the PC platform these days and is really just a store. Just like the Oculus store.

    This is where I have to stop taking you seriously. 

    "Steam kinda stands for the PC platform these days" 

    Congratulations, Gabe has you. 
    You apparently consider a for-profit digital distribution store to actually BE all things PC. 

    following that up with "is really just a store" doesn't remove your foot from your mouth. 

    Steam = PC gaming for you, I get it. 

    Just the reality. if you're developing a game today for PC then you'll put it on Steam. Why do you think pretty much all publishers from AAA to indie throw their games on their? Witcher 3, which is a CDProjekt game with close ties to GOG do it just as much as Sony with MGS5. Steam is very much synonymous with the PC platform these days. Some odd EA origin games may be the exception, surely you don't want to use that as a point that Steam isn't the de facto standard.

    Oh btw, noticed how many PC games you buy in the store are essentially just Steam keys in a box these days?
  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    edited May 2016
    Gigantoad said:
    If an HMD is a platform, what is PSVR? A platform within a platform?

    The Rift is only a platform because Oculus chose to call it that. The Vive is never called a platform as far as i can tell. The platform is PC in that case, or maybe Steam. Although Steam kinda stands for the PC platform these days and is really just a store. Just like the Oculus store.

    But hey, that Oculus store has small chances to succeed anyway. Steam is a store for all PC games, meanwhile Oculus try to establish a store just for VR. Project Cars players can all play with each other on Steam, VR users can even play with regular players. How incredible is that.
    It certainly is.  Look at all the extra hardware you need to run a PSVR in addition to the PSV4.

    Also, IMHO (and maybe not in yours), Oculus has the best games.  Show me one game on SteamVR that's not on Home that's just as good as Chronos or The Climb.  So yes, they could succeed...especially if they do start supporting more HMDs.  Especially if Home offers more freedom, colloaboration and lucrative deals to developers that Steam does.  There's a reason people want to break the law simply to play the games released through Oculus Studios.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,948 Valuable Player
    edited May 2016
    Gigantoad said:
    Yeah sure, if we're talking that kind of platform then my grandma is one too. I thought we were talking about gaming platform, which is usually pretty clear cut. PS4 is one. PC is one. Android and iPhone are each a platform that has their own native OS and code. if you want your game to be released on both, you need to compile for both and adhere to their standards etc. Users know that they cannot migrate their iPhone game to their new Android phone.

    So what's an HMD? A peripheral with drivers and an SDK. It doesn't have its own OS, I don't need to compile my game for the Rift, i still compile it for PC with added support for the HMD. Just like I may need to support a steering wheel or a joystick. There is no platform unless Oculus makes a store and decides to call it that. There is no need for a store in order for games to run on the CV1, just as little as it was needed to run games on DK1/DK2.
    You honestly have no idea what you're interjecting in this thread. The PC is not a gaming platform, it as device that has an operating system in which gaming platforms can reside.

    You're just guessing.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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