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The True About DRM - Palmer lied to us.

EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
Project 2501
edited May 2016 in General
A good video explaining why are people pissed off with Oculus about the new DRM update included in 1.4.



Hillarius the quote of Palmer on reddit 5 months ago.
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Comments

  • nightauditor1981nightauditor1981 Posts: 302
    Nexus 6
    Hmm, that actually worries me quite a bit. I don´t think that it is a good business choice and the whole philosophy of it makes me want to consider other products.

    Still looking forward to my CV1 of course, but policies like this might influence my choice for the next headset.

    Not a classy move Oculus, assuming it works as described in this video.
  • oscopeoscope Posts: 44
    Brain Burst
    So wait. The video confused me a bit. I realize oculus store games will check to verify the oculus HMD, however, will the oculus HMD still work on steam? If it's not going to work on steam I'll be canceling my order today, which I really don't want to do since its so close to my ship date. I don't like the way oculus is going with this. I can almost guarantee all my VR game purchases will be through steam no matter how good an exclusive title on oculus home might look.
  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    edited May 2016
    @oscopeIf you buy a game from the Oculus Store you can only use it with the CV1 cause the DRM checks if your rift is installed on the current machine. But if you buy anything from STEAM you are able to play it on both, and yes steam works with both HMD. Valve dont do DRM thats the way should work on Oculus, also with the new update is now easier to hack those Home games.
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  • twisteklabstwisteklabs Posts: 416
    Trinity
    It is the Facebook phylosophy to push everything to the limits till users complain a lot. Mark is the CEO who dictates the decisions made by Oculus after the purchase. You can expect to see more of the same types of decisions being made for Oculus as FB. 
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  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    @twisteklabsRevive pissed them off  :p
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  • twisteklabstwisteklabs Posts: 416
    Trinity
    EliteSPA said:
    @twisteklabsRevive pissed them off  :p
    True, but Palmer has nothing to do with Mark's decisions. Palmer is a nice guy, but to put it in terms of GoT, he has to bend his knee to Mark Zukerberg. We can not take Palmer's words seriously after FB took over Oculus. 
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  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    EliteSPA said:
    @twisteklabsRevive pissed them off  :p
    True, but Palmer has nothing to do with Mark's decisions. Palmer is a nice guy, but to put it in terms of GoT, he has to bend his knee to Mark Zukerberg. We can not take Palmer's words seriously after FB took over Oculus. 
    Sorry that quote of Palmer was after FB bought Oculus.
    i7 6700K @ 4.2 GHz | Corsair 16GB DDR4 PC2300 | GTX 1080 Ti | Asus z170-Pro | Corsair RGB Strafe Keyboard | Logitech G27 | Oculus CV1 + Touch + 4 Sensors | Win 10 64 bit | Acer Predator x34 @ 100Hz
  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    edited May 2016
    *shrug*

    ...and who has better games right now?  Valves laissez faire approach to their content is obviously not working, and Oculus isn't responsible for what's on Steam.  I have to admit I'm feeling a bit of Schadenfreude towards Vive fan-boys at this point.  You pretend to "fight" some fight for mankind, but when it comes down to it, you really just want your cake and eat it too.

    Nobody thinks the current Oculus approach is going to last forever, but apparently it's working at the moment since they have all the best games and developers keep signing up to develop for the platform.
  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    edited May 2016
    Offtopic: This has been released today and is free.
    Waltz of the Wizard (HTC VIVE)
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/436820/?snr=1_620_4_1401_47

    Enjoy!
    i7 6700K @ 4.2 GHz | Corsair 16GB DDR4 PC2300 | GTX 1080 Ti | Asus z170-Pro | Corsair RGB Strafe Keyboard | Logitech G27 | Oculus CV1 + Touch + 4 Sensors | Win 10 64 bit | Acer Predator x34 @ 100Hz
  • twisteklabstwisteklabs Posts: 416
    Trinity
    EliteSPA said:
    EliteSPA said:
    @twisteklabsRevive pissed them off  :p
    True, but Palmer has nothing to do with Mark's decisions. Palmer is a nice guy, but to put it in terms of GoT, he has to bend his knee to Mark Zukerberg. We can not take Palmer's words seriously after FB took over Oculus. 
    Sorry that quote of Palmer was after FB bought Oculus.
    Yup, any words from Palmer are mere suggestions to Mark. Palmer is not the decision maker as part of FB. 
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  • GigantoadGigantoad Posts: 395
    Nexus 6
    jon said:
    Selective quoting once again...

    ...

    “This is a hack, and we don’t condone it,” Oculus VR said in a statement issued to VRFocus. “Users should expect that hacked games won’t work indefinitely, as regular software updates to games, apps, and our platform are likely to break hacked software.”

    "if customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want"

    What's selective quoting got to do with anything? No different meaning will ever come out of these two fundamentally different statements, no matter how much context you provide.
  • jonjon Posts: 297
    Nexus 6
    Gigantoad said:
    jon said:
    Selective quoting once again...

    ...

    “This is a hack, and we don’t condone it,” Oculus VR said in a statement issued to VRFocus. “Users should expect that hacked games won’t work indefinitely, as regular software updates to games, apps, and our platform are likely to break hacked software.”

    "if customers buy a game from us, I don't care if they mod it to run on whatever they want"

    What's selective quoting got to do with anything? No different meaning will ever come out of these two fundamentally different statements, no matter how much context you provide.

    One of the sentences in my post that you chose not to quote:

    The following was from Oculus (the company) and not Palmer Luckey (the hype-man) specifically regarding Revive on April 19th (far more recently than the abused Luckey quote):

    Heavily implies if not explicitly points out that one quote not only specifically refers to Revive and how it operates, but was made explicitly by the company and made much more recently than the other, more general quote by Palmer Luckey.  How selective quoting factors into it is through your deliberate choice of the less applicable quote over the other.
  • GigantoadGigantoad Posts: 395
    Nexus 6
    Are you saying Palmer's statements differ from that of his company? i guess I can agree with that. Still Palmer very much is perceived as the man behind Oculus, so i don't see how this justifies him saying anything he feels like and then Oculus doing the exact opposite. And you blame it all on selective quoting as if the underlying problem wasn't an entirely different one.
  • jonjon Posts: 297
    Nexus 6
    Gigantoad said:
    Are you saying Palmer's statements differ from that of his company? i guess I can agree with that.
    Beyond that, Palmer's quote is less authorative, more generalized and older than the one from Oculus proper.  If you're trying to divine Oculus' position on the matter the direct quote from Oculus made far more recently, specifically on Revive should have reasonably set expectations.
  • GigantoadGigantoad Posts: 395
    Nexus 6
    Right, so basically ignore everything Palmer says, despite him "having said it millions of times and counter to the current circlejerk", to put it in his own words.

    I for one think it's more than adequate to quote him on such statements if they turn out to be complete hogwash. And once again, selective quoting has jack all to do with it. You are using a quote by Oculus proper made after Palmer said the exact opposite to justify Oculus' recent actions and that's fine. But the video was about what Palmer said and what ended up happening.
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    haven't we discussed this ad nauseum already at least a week ago. 
    Nothing new here. Oculus is trying something to see if it floats. Vive users are pissed and feel entitled. 

    The whole issue wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the fact that apparently some games exist that are sold on Oculus home that Vive users want to play. 

    Sod it, I'm not getting on this merry-go-round again.
  • SnipeUoutSnipeUout Posts: 15
    NerveGear
    At this point in time Palmer is a corporate puppet. At one time he may of had some control of the platform, however now he apparently doesn't. His efforts were noble in the begging but after a 2 billon dollar buyout and being worth 700 million dollars, your initial ethos changes. I don't blame him at all, I blame the corporate component. Bottom-line is Oculus is here for your money, and if you want to play Lucky's Tale then you also have to buy an Rift.
  • jonjon Posts: 297
    Nexus 6
    edited May 2016
    On a technical level the thread was about why some people were upset at the DRM present in the Oculus Home 1.4 patch, and the video was cited as evidence in the opening post.  Mentioning Luckey's older quotes is well within reason, and is even needed to understand Oculus' full position as it evolved on the matter concerning Oculus Home 1.4 and Revive.  Failing to mention the more recent and specific quote from Oculus proper was simply a matter of selective quotation for the purpose of pursasion in their argument, which I felt should be pointed out.  Mission accomplished, as it were.
  • jonjon Posts: 297
    Nexus 6
    Atmos73 said:

    What am I missing on the Vive that's so amazing on the Rift?

    XBox integration, potentially... but that's best left for another thread.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,989 Valuable Player
    Had the Vive been better designed, I think I would have gone with Vive instead of CV1. I think Vive 2 will be when I jump ship and that's why I'm buying all my games on Steam. Who knows maybe a new company will come along, but at-least I'll be able to play all the games I purchased.
  • SkizzSkizz Posts: 220
    Art3mis
    lovethis said:
    Had the Vive been better designed, I think I would have gone with Vive instead of CV1. I think Vive 2 will be when I jump ship and that's why I'm buying all my games on Steam. Who knows maybe a new company will come along, but at-least I'll be able to play all the games I purchased.
    The only reason I haven't cancelled my preorder yet, is that I think all in all the Rift (in combination with Touch) is the better product. I really hope that this will change with the second gen hmd's. Then I will jump ship with a giant smile on my face..
  • CharlieHobbesCharlieHobbes Posts: 555
    Neo
    Skizz said:
    lovethis said:
    Had the Vive been better designed, I think I would have gone with Vive instead of CV1. I think Vive 2 will be when I jump ship and that's why I'm buying all my games on Steam. Who knows maybe a new company will come along, but at-least I'll be able to play all the games I purchased.
    The only reason I haven't cancelled my preorder yet, is that I think all in all the Rift (in combination with Touch) is the better product. I really hope that this will change with the second gen hmd's. Then I will jump ship with a giant smile on my face..
    That's the spirit! get whatever is the best headset for you.
    That's the only way to ensure that companies have to stay on their toes and give us good products really. 


  • motorsepmotorsep Posts: 1,478 Oculus Start Member
    Steam has DRM, don't you forget that. So, if you get a game on Steam, you can't run it if you don't have Steam.
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    Oh look, another one of THESE threads.  I like how every comment from the Vive fanboys and Oculus-haters are total carbon-copies of each other, all pre-rehearsed and filled with the same buzz-words.  Too bad these guys have such an irrational fear and hatred of Facebook; they'd get a lot of mileage out of that 'share post' button.

    Amusing how you guys think that boycotting Oculus Home is going to teach anyone a lesson.  Is Oculus supposed to believe that someone who went out of their way to buy a Vive instead of a Rift was planning on buying all their games from Oculus Home instead of through Steam VR to begin with?  Is allowing their exclusive titles to be sold to a very small demographic of rabid Vive fanboys supposed to make up for the market share and brand-recognition they'd risk losing?  Do they even want people like you to be part of the Oculus community in the first place? 

    Boycotting present or future Rift hardware is even more laughable; this is a device that A) they're selling at no profit, so they don't lose anything from you not buying one,  B) the demand for is already much higher than they ever anticipated (or have the means of supply to keep up with) C) it's self-defeating when the reason for your outrage is that Vive doesn't have enough games to keep you satisfied and you want to play Rift-exclusives, and D) you're essentially cancelling your reservation at a 5-star restaurant to eat at a Denny's instead. Yeah, that'll show 'em.

    You aren't teaching Oculus a lesson or convincing them to drop everything they're doing and pander to hardcore PC gamers the way Valve does; They're laughing at you right now, and so is anyone who truly wants the VR industry to succeed.  HTC/Valve rode into this industry on Oculus' coat-tails, made no effort to actually fund content development or introduce the medium to anyone beyond the hardcore PC gamer market they already cater to, and so far they've treated VR as nothing more than a novelty to sell exclusively to that market.   Do you really think VR would thrive in their hands better than it will in the hands of a company that is sinking billions and billions of dollars into actively funding and promoting the medium to the rest of the world?

    Fortunately, it doesn't matter what you think. Maybe that's the real reason you're so mad? You're so used to the PC gaming industry pandering to you, and you assumed that the VR industry was just another part of the PC gaming industry, just because it (currently) runs on PC hardware? :smirk:

    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,006 Valuable Player
    edited May 2016
    Hanover said:
    *shrug*

    ...and who has better games right now?  Valves laissez faire approach to their content is obviously not working, and Oculus isn't responsible for what's on Steam.  I have to admit I'm feeling a bit of Schadenfreude towards Vive fan-boys at this point.  You pretend to "fight" some fight for mankind, but when it comes down to it, you really just want your cake and eat it too.

    Nobody thinks the current Oculus approach is going to last forever, but apparently it's working at the moment since they have all the best games and developers keep signing up to develop for the platform.
    No matter how much the Information Technology industry is screaming in peoples faces that instant-evolution is a real thing, people who prefer emotion over reason will always make threads like this where the theme is "all growth is stagnant."

    The arguments in this thread against Oculus have an embarrassingly small expiration date.

    Even for the sake of argument, let's say that the entire free world puts Zuckerberg and Palmer on trial for being witches and burns them a the proverbial stake, people will just find another VR business to hate.

    Facebook has been getting trashed on for years - and to be honest I don't even have an Account anymore. I left Facebook 3 years ago. Yet no matter how many people choose to openly hate Facebook, they still make enough money to buy a company like Oculus after beingn impressed over lunch lol
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  • EliteSPAEliteSPA Posts: 1,560
    Project 2501
    @CrashFu Sorry I have 2 headsets and Im not a Vive fanboy just a VR fanboy.
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  • HanoverHanover Posts: 549
    Neo
    Zenbane said:
    Hanover said:
    *shrug*

    ...and who has better games right now?  Valves laissez faire approach to their content is obviously not working, and Oculus isn't responsible for what's on Steam.  I have to admit I'm feeling a bit of Schadenfreude towards Vive fan-boys at this point.  You pretend to "fight" some fight for mankind, but when it comes down to it, you really just want your cake and eat it too.

    Nobody thinks the current Oculus approach is going to last forever, but apparently it's working at the moment since they have all the best games and developers keep signing up to develop for the platform.


    Facebook has been getting trashed on for years - and to be honest I don't even have an Account anymore. I left Facebook 3 years ago. Yet no matter how many people choose to openly hate Facebook, they still make enough money to buy a company like Oculus after beingn impressed over lunch lol
    My entire extended family is on Facebook, as well as most of my school friends.  Since they are all on the West Coast, Facebook is the easiest way to see what everyone is up to.  Just like anything else, what you put into Facebook is what you get out of it.  
  • Keylo415Keylo415 Posts: 101
    Art3mis
    @CrashFu I totally agree with you it's so funny how these fanboys hate oculus, even tho It got them interested in VR in the first place. After using oculus up, they planned on rolling with steam, why because steam can do no wrong. They can't get mad that they've run out of games to play, and we're just beginning.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,006 Valuable Player
    We get the Hasbro version of what America's Founding Fathers did for power :#




    Maybe the VR evolution will bring us all one-step closer to ethical corporate giants!

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