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Xbox Scorpio "The first and only console to enable true 4K gaming and hi-fidelity VR."

Anonymous
Not applicable
Found on this page: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio

I wonder if it will use the rift? 🙂
17 REPLIES 17

SpiceLife72
Adventurer
It will most likely support the rift.

It won't be true 4k.  

Playstation 4 pro will run at 1920 by 1080 and upscale to 4k.

Xbox scorpio will run at  2560 by 1440 and upscale to 4k.

danknugz
Superstar
Anything 4K will be 30 fps and a waste of resources. Chasing 4K is a fools errand for the next couple of years If you value anything over 45 fps

Let's hope it's not cv1 they are talking about. "Hi fidelity VR" is not what I think of when t comes to cv1
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on forums?

Conan
Expert Protege
*UHD

4k is a cinema standard and is wider than consumer TVs

RonsonPL
Heroic Explorer
FrozenPea said:
Found on this page: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio

I wonder if it will use the rift? 🙂
Of course it will. It's obvious since we got the info about bundled Xone controller in every CV1 sold.
It will most likely support the rift.

It won't be true 4k.  

Playstation 4 pro will run at 1920 by 1080 and upscale to 4k.

Xbox scorpio will run at  2560 by 1440 and upscale to 4k.

No.
Actually "PS4" version of "4K" is almost 2560x1440 (in terms of pixels, 2x more than 1080 and 2x less than 2160p)
PS4 will use 1800p checkboard method which gives much less aliasing, but also, as all shader-based AA methods do, blurs the image awfully and washes it out of contrast and color vibrance.
Study this image carrefully: http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/rise_tomb_raider_4k_comparison_2.jpg
(my hint: look at the spear that pierced the skeleton)

PS4 will have some native 4K games, although at the graphics quality close to PS3.
Mantis Burn Racing is 50-60fps at native 4K on PS4pro for example. PS3 remasters like The Last Of Us will work on 4K, although there's yet no info about 60fps or 30fps mode. Most likely the latter.
There will also be games with just 1080p or so, if any dev chooses to do so, Sony doesn't enforce it.

Microsoft's console will have +50% more memory bandwidth and GPU power, and therefore games will run most likely the same as they do on Xone, but at 4x more pixels, so the same image quality in terms of assets, texturing etc. but at higher res. If a given game works at 900p on Xone it will most likely work at 1800p on Scorpio etc.
danknugz said:
Anything 4K will be 30 fps and a waste of resources. Chasing 4K is a fools errand for the next couple of years If you value anything over 45 fps

Let's hope it's not cv1 they are talking about. "Hi fidelity VR" is not what I think of when t comes to cv1
Yeah. Some time ago at Sony:

- guys, PC gamers are laughing at us and some gamers flee to PC gaming world, leaving PS4 behind, we have to do something!
- OK, George, so we'll release another console, more powerful one.
- any suggestions? Yes, Steve?
- we could swap that crappy tablet CPU and give gamers normal quality of gaming, which is 60fps
- I think I have a better idea.
- and you are...?
- Paul, sir. Marketing department
- go on, Paul
- we could leave the CPU, cause who cares about gameplay and good of gamers anyway. We should bump up the GPU specs and use it to advertise this console as 4K hardware
- but this would take 4x more powerful GPU!
- no, and at 16FinFET+ we can add something while still using some crappy cheap and small APU , this will be the only cost bump. We could offer the new PS4 at low cost and that's great for business!
- but what about memory? It will make our consoles more expensive to produce.
- no, we can stay with cheap crap, eventually give it a +20-30% bump
- but that won't work! You need much more for 4K
- we'll use half the pixel count of 4K and use some upscaling technique. John, what do we need?
- erm... we'd need a much better GPU and memory. Unless we just use 2x faster shaders and use it to cleverly upscale the image. It will look like shit compared to 4K but how many people even saw how 4K looks like?
- you mean we stay at +/- 200GB/s memory?
- yes, sir
- OK, so that's settled. And increase the CPU clocks by a little, enough to make it viable for markeing slides saying "better CPU!" 25% would be enough.
- hey! With that slow CPU there will be no problem with the future compatibility! Devs won't be able to implement anything signifant, so noone will ever make a game that struggles on PS4. People would hate us if devs started to create PS4pro exclusives, even in 2018!
- good point!
- Dave Pasman, sir. I have a thing to say. Wouldn't gamers prefer just faster CPU so games run at 60fps instead of 25-30fps like they do now, with low geometry and crappy physics?
- Shut up Dave, we aren't here to please gamers, we are here to make money. And by the way. You're fired, your way of thinking is absolete, you are stuck in the past Dave. Good bye



--
Scorpio's CPU won't be enough to run 30fps games at 60fps either, I'm afraid. Even if it uses Zen, there's still an issue with power consumption and die space. 50% bigger GPU compared to PS4pro will be quite big already.
Not an Oculus hater, but not a fan anymore. Still lots of respect for the team-Carmack, Abrash. Oculus is driven by big corporation principles now. That brings painful effects already, more to come in the future. This is not the Oculus I once cheered for.

shadowfrogger
Heroic Explorer
The Scorpio zen cpu will be fine to run 4k at 60fps if the devs spend a bit of time targeting it. It'll be the same as today, 5%-10% of devs will target 60fps and acheive it. Otherwise it'll be about pretty graphics at sub 60fps. Sad but that's the console minimum. What people should hope for is if the ps5/xbox5 will have enough power so it's easy to do 60fps at 4k, i ain't holding my breath but it is a long time away.


Heres a list of current ps4 games at 1080p and 60fps
http://www.videogamerplus.com/2014/09/60-fps-native-1080p-ps4-games-list.html?m=1

The cpu will be fine becuase you can directly talk to the gpu from any cpu core. It's just about spreading the cpu load as best as possible.
Visit my amateur homegrown indie game company website! http://www.gaming-disorder.com/

Anonymous
Not applicable
You guys have to understand - consoles are at their limit for games. Back in the day, sure, computer hardware was more turn to business and higher end graphics, but now a days- that min has reach average cost. You need both a good CPU and a good GPU and consoles hit that limit back at the PS3 age and now you have raising cost because of that and no one really wants to pay for it because at that price point - you are better off buying a computer.

At this point : MS needs to learn that they're hitting a wall and they should start breaking that wall down and let both it's console gamers have a choice to use their PCs instead now. They might lose a few sells in the console world - but still make it up in the software sells.

RonsonPL
Heroic Explorer


(...) What people should hope for is if the ps5/xbox5 will have enough power so it's easy to do 60fps at 4k, i ain't holding my breath but it is a long time away.

(...)

The cpu will be fine becuase you can directly talk to the gpu from any cpu core. It's just about spreading the cpu load as best as possible.

I didn't repeat myself since a some time, right? Let's fix this 😉

 No. Even if we had much more power, we would still have a ton of 30fps games, unfortunately, although of course, if jump from old gen to nextgen could be big while maintaining 60fps, it would get better. Unlike it is now, where professional game journalists write such stupid things like "MGS V doesn't look nextgen", while it is one of the rare games that run mostly at 60fps on PS4/Xone.
It won't ever change as long as majority of people simply don't have idea about benefits of 60fps. Joypad method of controlling the game is able to hide the lags in FPS games, and in racing games, people are used to big lag, so they don't complain about 30fps. But that's less important factor. More important are visuals. Since 540p, we went to 720p, to 1080p and now to 2160p. And yet 99,99% of peopple who are the mainstream targetted by big publishers and console manufacturers, still sit on that 300p fast motion resolution. Sometimes it's better, but no more than 0,1% can pass the 720p level of detail.

There's so many factors resulting in the current 30fps world-wide plague.
- You can still have effects on which you can rely your marketing. Industry shifted to engines that can't do much things, but the things that can be done, can get some additional effects, so we see focusing on things like shader-based postprocess effects for lighting, physical based texturing, HBAO, post-process AA techniques, and so on. 30fps is simply better for marketing, where screenshots are quite important.
- At 30fps, also physics can be better. APU has more time to provide effects of the calculations. The smaller framerate, the better you can use GPU help in physics code. It's still far from optimal connection between CPU and GPU (let's face it - AMD doesn't design those chips with gaming in mind) so there's still a huge waste when going GPU route.
- By going to low fps you can fool gullible gamers who then go to the internet forums and say "Rockstar made a miracle! See how great GTAV looks on x360/ps3".
Photo modes, screenshots - people can look at great quality static images. They mostly don't realize that the fact they are forced to struggle playing at 19-22fps in significant part of the game, is the result of Rockstar supposedly doing miracles utilizing ps3/x360 power.
- 30fps also means smaller file sizes if dev chooses to make in-game pre-rendered cut-scenes seem indistinguishable from real-time engine.
- 30fps will also mean you'll wait less time if you plan to port your game to mobile market, at some point in the future.
- since the image is blurred as hell anyway, you can use partial resolution like Killzone: Shadowfall did, or temporal AA techniques, which are absolutely hideous when you compare the image with it and without it, on a display that has full motion resolution (equal to the display native resolution).
- 30fps also, just by coincidence, don't ruin the experience completely in game genres that are popular now. Stealth (slow movement), TPP (cover system mechanics), movie-like games. I won't say that those genres became popular because of the end of clear-image display era, but it became popular because of it. ;]




We'll have to accept the 30fps reality until majority of people use low persistence displays for gaming.

Mradr said:

You guys have to understand - consoles are at their limit for games. (...)
 now you have raising cost because of that and no one really wants to pay for it because at that price point - you are better off buying a computer.
I'll respond with this 😉
o9v8ugzdu8s5.jpg

And lets not forget the bigger sales when better hardware could properly "wow" people with what it can achieve. Just imagine Uncharted 4 SP campaign, running at 2160p60 (or rather 90-120fps so image could be free of flicker) or the VR possibilities.
Not an Oculus hater, but not a fan anymore. Still lots of respect for the team-Carmack, Abrash. Oculus is driven by big corporation principles now. That brings painful effects already, more to come in the future. This is not the Oculus I once cheered for.

Anonymous
Not applicable
Your MS paint doesn't explain anything other than some blue lines? O.o;

Lets be real here- Sony/MS isn't spending more than they want in these consoles. They are also being pay off by software sells as well as their true cost is mark down with subdivides. 

Your "graphic" might have been true back in the PS1-3 days - but it's getting harder for a console maker to keep cramming more and more into these devices without passing the cost back at the customer. Consoles are as game turn for performance as they can be. They can verily pull anything more out of these things without adding something new or doing something new (DX12 for example) as to give them a cheaper option to pull as much as they can from the hardware. CPU tech cost quite a bit of money - GPU tech is the only way to go to keep cost down.

We're to the point that the lower cost system cost as much money as a low end computer that does even more for the same cost and performance spec.  Consoles are a dying bread as we continue to push forward with higher end engines bring up the game software into the future. At some point - something has to give -.

shadowfrogger
Heroic Explorer
@Mradr
There is a market for consoles not just because of the power price point compard to lower spec pcs but because of extreme ease of use. I agree that the gap between pc and consoles will start to close for the same amount of power but consoles will still have the edge. It's also hard to get uncharted 4 to run st 30fps on a pc that is the same price(and isn't built by the consumer) you can save a lot of money building yourself but a lot of people can't

@RonsonPL
I agree that the track record for prioritizing fps/res for console games is pretty bad. But I would say the standard for console games has been increasing. Otherwise we would still be on 720p 30fps with really pretty graphics. Now the push will be for 4k 30fps. The key question is where is it going to go from there ? Will it stay at 4k 30fps with pretty graphics as devs get more and more power? Or will the common standard raise to 4k 60fps.
We know how good 60fps is over 30 and how much better 140fps is over 60. After 4k,hdr,8k. Next marketing strategy might be for 120fps (called something catchy like FTL).

Visit my amateur homegrown indie game company website! http://www.gaming-disorder.com/