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Road map for Medium?

MarthiusMarthius Posts: 4
NerveGear
Just a general question about the long term goals for medium which I cannot find an answer to in the FAQ.  I'm wondering if the plan is to continue to add complexity to medium to make it more capable of high end modeling (things like hard edges and deformation tools for example), or alternatively to maintain is primarily as a kind of 3D sketching tool more aimed at beginners and/or concept work?

Comments

  • bhsharpbhsharp Posts: 34 Oculus Staff
    We didn't post a roadmap because making promises about the future is a dangerous thing. :)

    The real answer is, we have a list a million items long we'd love to do, everything from big stuff to small stuff, and some of it mutually exclusive - taking the app in one major direction vs. another - but since we just shipped, it makes more sense to wait and see what the community does with it and use that to help us decide on direction.

    The artists we worked with in beta before launch taught us a ton of often surprising things about how to use it, and changed the direction in ways we wouldn't have anticipated.

    So it's mostly humility - we don't pretend we know best what will be the most impactful directions to take it.

    I know this is basically a complete dodge of your question, but it's also the truth. :)
  • GenetixStudioGenetixStudio Posts: 770
    3Jane
    Great response, I'd gladly pay $20 or so in the future for a major update that added new tools, content, customization, etc. Such a great program already!
  • MarthiusMarthius Posts: 4
    NerveGear
    Fair answer, please don't take my comment to be disparaging.  On the contrary, after trying out medium I love it so much that I want to include as much of my work flow into it as possible, thus my question.  Wherever you guys take this, count me as a supporter!
  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    I cast my vote for complexity even if it makes the program harder to learn.  Tutorials are valuable to help noobs get a handle on things.  As an example, look at 123D Design. Very powerful and easy to learn if you look at a few tutorials to get started. 
    My point is, you need a certain level of complexity to make it usable. Less than that and it's useless. Like how often do you open Paint after acquiring a good graphics program? Don't make Medium the new Paint.
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • bhsharpbhsharp Posts: 34 Oculus Staff
    @Roaster I think it's contextual, though. "More complexity is always the right thing" is obviously an overgeneralization. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not. As for comparing Medium to Paint... I mean, not to toot my own horn here TOO much, but: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157869493515704&set=a.10151762107370704.860454.845640703&type=3&theater

    :)
  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    edited December 2016
    I didn't intend to hurt feelings, just hoping for the best tools to simulate real-life sculpture, blended with the attribute controls one gets with Photo Paint or something. I should wait to GET MY CONTROLLERS before commenting.  Just being paranoid about the app being dumbed down for some reason. Before being able to use it. Premature speculation as it were. 
    I'm restoring a 3D printed 1/6 scale Venus De Milo at the moment and it makes you appreciate the craft. I am blasphemously fixing it in certain areas.  I want to import the file and do it in Medium too.  If I had the controllers.
    What I really want to see is the left foot. 
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • bhsharpbhsharp Posts: 34 Oculus Staff
    Hahaha no worries, feelings are intact.

    Yeah, I started taking sculpting classes (water and oil clay) after I started up the Medium team, figuring it'd help me make Medium better if I knew more about traditional media. And then you get that empathy thing - I remember being at the Boston MFA and seeing Houdon's marble bust of Thomas Jefferson. I just STARED at it, like got super close to it, and just looking at every detail and visualizing him carving it... it's really intense.

    I also probably looked kind of unhinged, craning my neck to stare wide-eyed at a sculpture from inches away like a madman.
  • RoasterRoaster Posts: 1,053
    3Jane
    edited December 2016
    Clay is fine, but out here in the perimeter we use stone.  Immaculate.

    Seriously, the point I'm getting at is that the tool affects the outcome.  IRL we make tools to suit the job, to manipulate the medium to the best effect. Whether it's a brush shaped like a fan, or a chisel shaped like a V, or the hacksaw blade I used to shape the curve of the fender on my car. One needs flexibility to achieve what you imagine.

    What I learned working with oils is that one of the hardest things to do is get the paint off the brush and onto the canvas in the way you want. The method becomes very prominent in the results. The tool shape and characteristics become the thing.
    i7-5820K @ 4.2Ghz, water cooled, Asus X99-Pro USB 3.1, 48 Gb DDR4 2400, Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD, GTX 980 Ti SC, 750w psu
  • P3nT4gR4mP3nT4gR4m Posts: 1,715 Valuable Player
    Roaster said:
    I didn't intend to hurt feelings, just hoping for the best tools to simulate real-life sculpture, blended with the attribute controls one gets with Photo Paint or something. I should wait to GET MY CONTROLLERS before commenting.  Just being paranoid about the app being dumbed down for some reason. Before being able to use it. Premature speculation as it were. 
    I'm restoring a 3D printed 1/6 scale Venus De Milo at the moment and it makes you appreciate the craft. I am blasphemously fixing it in certain areas.  I want to import the file and do it in Medium too.  If I had the controllers.
    What I really want to see is the left foot. 
    Re: dumbed down - don't worry too much. Medium reminds me of sculptris in that its super simple but also super powerful. As opposed to mspaint which is super simple but practically useless. Its not full-pipeline like z-brush but for rough initial design, just blasting forms down and damn the topology,  it blows the competition clean out the water.

    I'm not saying there arent first-version niggles but none of these are showstoppers in my view. Give it a go and you'll see what I mean
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,901 Valuable Player
    I'd like to see a Biped added and additional hardware for sale that would create a motion capture suit that could be used to capture the keyframes to import into other programs like 3dsmax.  So you can use the 3dsmax biped with the keyframes created in medium on your OBJ that you export from medium and still have access to all the controls to 3dsmaxes tools for creating the video's or frames.  You could make a character.  Act out a seen, export the character, bring in the keyframes and create an animation using a suite of different software.  It would be awesome to be able to do motion capture.
  • KevinLongtimeKevinLongtime Posts: 283
    Nexus 6
    @Roaster
    Just wait till you try it. You'll be pleasantly surprised as I just was at how simply but powerful it is.
  • MarthiusMarthius Posts: 4
    NerveGear
    The big tools i would love to get my hands on would be some kind of grab brush, a pinch tool, and dynamic re-topology for fine details (given limited memory).  But as you said these are early days, and work with the current tools will surely suit me well come future updates!

    I love that you took up real world sculpting in prep for this projects. I suppose a lot of the design for medium had to come from first principles given that there is really nothing else like it that came before.
  • KevinLongtimeKevinLongtime Posts: 283
    Nexus 6
    Seems the biggest feature request I have at the moment are two things:

    I wish it was possible to just go to the custom stamps menu and be able to import a sculpt scene as a stamp rather than having to export the sculpt to OBJ and look through the nose hole as you drag the obj file to the sculpt folder even though its something that you just made inside of medium. Seems you should be able to throw it in as a stamp inside of Medium.
     
    Also it seems like the OBJ exporter gives me these weird errors on the geometry where some surfaces appear completely black every once in a while which sucks because I like to do things with the models outside of medium too. Appears to be some sort of error with the normals.
  • P3nT4gR4mP3nT4gR4m Posts: 1,715 Valuable Player
    Haven't tried any exporting yet but I'm sure medium will spit out hideous geometry, same as any dynamic sculpt. Maybe flipped normals? Try changing the polys to double sided then knuckle down and get on with the retopo?
  • KevinLongtimeKevinLongtime Posts: 283
    Nexus 6
    edited December 2016
    I tried flipping the normals but they still appear black. It's really strange. I get these little patches of black normals too on some more detailed models.


  • P3nT4gR4mP3nT4gR4m Posts: 1,715 Valuable Player
    did you check rms8080's thread?
  • KevinLongtimeKevinLongtime Posts: 283
    Nexus 6
    edited December 2016
    P3nT4gR4m said:
    did you check rms8080's thread?
    Yeah, his was a little different. Still get the blocked meshes which Brian said will be fixed later but mine was messed up normals but I figured it out. In maya I just had to do "unlock normals" and the weird black patched normals went away. Then just resmoothed the normals.
  • P3nT4gR4mP3nT4gR4m Posts: 1,715 Valuable Player
    Sorted. I just meant using that meshtools thing. Medium seems to export in a hell of a state. You doing retopo in maya?
  • KevinLongtimeKevinLongtime Posts: 283
    Nexus 6
    edited December 2016
    I'm just now looking closely at the meshes Medium exports and it's kinda crazy lol. On almost ever vert there seems to be 2 or 3 in the same exact spot. So many excessive verts. Hell of a cleanup if you wanted clean polys. Haven't done any retopo on these Medium meshes yet but probably will once I finalize something. I'm having too much fun messing around in it. Love how you can easily come back to a model and add or remove stuff no problem in medium. Just wish the export was cleaner
  • P3nT4gR4mP3nT4gR4m Posts: 1,715 Valuable Player
    I was always figuring the medium stuff would need retopo to become usable in-game or posable assets. That's just the price you pay for dynamic hipoly sculpting. Personally I hate retopoing but I put up with it cos the alternative is too constraining.
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