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WHY an usb 2.0?? (additional sensor extension cable)

Kalec84Kalec84 Posts: 558
Trinity
I just received one of the 2 additional sensors i've ordered, and i see that the extension cable (15 feet) is a 2.0 cable... is that ok?
Wouldn't it be a better idea to give us a 3.0 extension cable?
Just Asking u.u
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Comments

  • maxpare79maxpare79 Posts: 1,749 Volunteer Moderator
    I think they want to split the bandwith between 2 different usb controller.  

    If you have a separate usb card like the Inatek I wouldn't worry too much and use a USB 3.0 if you have the right extension cable that is... 

    But 2.0 will do just fine. 
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  • Kalec84Kalec84 Posts: 558
    Trinity
    lets hope, 5m 3.0 extension cable is between 15 ane 30€ and 2 of them almost make another sensor ^_^ ok with the investiment but lets not exagerate too much xD
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,479 Volunteer Moderator
    I thought the maximum length of passive USB 3 cables was 2 or 3 metres hence the use of USB 2 for the 3rd camera. Active cables add latency if I'm not mistaken.
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  • Kalec84Kalec84 Posts: 558
    Trinity
    as for the hdmi you can ad an extender block (powered or not) that increase the distance
  • KevinLongtimeKevinLongtime Posts: 281
    Nexus 6
    edited December 2016
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 23,033 Oculus Staff
    It's purposefully USB 2.0 due to bandwidth issues with using too many USB 3.0 devices.
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  • TwoHedWlfTwoHedWlf Posts: 1,844 Poster of the Week
    I thought the maximum length of passive USB 3 cables was 2 or 3 metres hence the use of USB 2 for the 3rd camera. Active cables add latency if I'm not mistaken.
    While they may add latency, all reviews I've seen say it's not enough to matter.
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,338 Valuable Player
    The additional cable is active btw
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,479 Volunteer Moderator

    @elboffor, are you sure? I'd read it was a passive 15ft USB 2 cable, and 5 metres would be fine for passive.

    Well either way, cyber's confirmed it's a bandwidth issue that's the reason for USB 2.

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  • Kalec84Kalec84 Posts: 558
    Trinity
    Well, good to know, i tried it and i got a strange problem with the right controller, it started vibrating and beeping (like i was pressing buttons) non stop
    After i nremoved the 3rd camera and resinc the controller, it stopped, now i have to see if the solution was removing the camera AND resinc, or just resinc i.i
  • HoIIywoodHoIIywood Posts: 320
    Nexus 6
    edited December 2016
    It was bad enough that Oculus went with USB for the sensors, though the glaring issue is the way it's been communicated to the public. There is too much misinformation and misdirection, instead of simple guidance and black and white data.

    Their site says that the 'third' sensor can/should be 2.0 but does not state specifically why. And yet in the same breath, says USB 3.0 would be better. At no point do they attempt to differentiate what is what and why. Yet then leave forum staff and some support employees to reluctantly comment that it's due to bandwidth issues.

    Then we come to find out that the sensors are so poorly designed that most of your basic USB 3.0 extension which will work fine with other devices, won't work with the sensors or the HMD. And furthering that, USB 2.0 will fail often in the same scenario.

    Also we've been told that 2.0 won't provide as good tracking results. I therefor disapprove of the suggestion to use 2.0 on the third camera because most of time the third camera is the one doing the rear tracking. I would rather have one of the front ones have reduced tracking, with the slack being picked up by the other front sensor on 3.0, and let the rear one have the best tracking it can because it's by itself. 

    This is definitely one area where I could see the myself being swayed to the Vive. Two sensors, power plug..done. But those Vive wands, yuck....

    Kalec84 said:
    Well, good to know, i tried it and i got a strange problem with the right controller, it started vibrating and beeping (like i was pressing buttons) non stop
    After i nremoved the 3rd camera and resinc the controller, it stopped, now i have to see if the solution was removing the camera AND resinc, or just resinc i.i
    Thanks for that information
  • ZuhookZuhook Posts: 236
    Nexus 6
    I can confirm that in the box there is an active usb 2.0 cable. I'm using my own passive 3.0 though. I haven't done proper testing yet.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,479 Volunteer Moderator

    OK thanks for the confirmation @Zuhook & @elboffor.

    I'm on the verge of ordering a pair of extra sensors... just got to decide if I should finish my Christmas shopping first!

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  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 23,033 Oculus Staff
    The requirements have always been upfront, but the reasons behind them maybe not widely publicized. In any case, people can find their answers on the forum, or through customer support if they are interested in the reasons why (otherwise they can just follow the clear setup instructions and trust they are true).

    To be honest, in practice I don't believe there is a noticeable difference between using the sensors on USB 3.0 or USB 2.0. From what I was told, there is a benefit from USB 3.0 but honestly USB 2.0 works fine and in my experience the difference in quality is that great or even noticeable at all.

    The requirements are that only 2 sensors can be on USB 3.0, while the others be on USB 2.0. It doesn't matter which ones are which. So you can have your two front sensors on USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 and then have the back senor (3rd sensor) on USB 3.0 if you want. That's fine.
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  • TwoHedWlfTwoHedWlf Posts: 1,844 Poster of the Week
    HoIIywood said:
    It was bad enough that Oculus went with USB for the sensors, 
    Do you have a suggestion for something else they should have used?
  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,338 Valuable Player

    @elboffor, are you sure? I'd read it was a passive 15ft USB 2 cable, and 5 metres would be fine for passive.

    Well either way, cyber's confirmed it's a bandwidth issue that's the reason for USB 2.

    This is the actual cable (very cheap looking i must admit)

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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,479 Volunteer Moderator
    edited December 2016

    thanks @elboffor ;, nothing wrong with cheap if it works I guess!!

    ...I've had a few male to female active extensions in my time

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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,338 Valuable Player
    I wouldn't know, I ain't using it ;) (not yet anyways)
    USB 3.0 3m cable from my newly purchased inatech card to one front sensor, and direct from my onboard usb 3.0 to the other.
    when my misses allows me to have my touch (dam you Santa Claus *shakes fist*) ill be using this on an actual stand on a table on the other side of the room. my front sensors are perma in place though :)

    But even just for the rift I've got far better tracking, my ceilings are high so my nearest sensor is around 5 feet away from my seated position and furthest about 9 foot but it still seems to be silky smooth (maybe it's placebo but w/e as long as i think it's an improvement)
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,479 Volunteer Moderator
    Well it's a fantastic Christmas present, that's for sure.
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,338 Valuable Player
    well for the first time in years ill have something to play with on Christmas day other than my children's toys.

    In retaliation to the missus deciding she would pay for my touch, i spent the equivalent on games, the extra sensor and a new pci card. 
    So i suppose it worked out well.

    The real fun starts when the family turn up and i want to put a table in the middle of my play space for dinner!!!
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  • KevinLongtimeKevinLongtime Posts: 281
    Nexus 6
    edited December 2016
    I'm glad it comes with an extension, just surprised it wasn't made by oculus. 

    My tracking for the sensor has been telling me it's waiting on USPS to pick it up for the last 3 days..
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 2,467 Poster of the Week
    edited December 2016
    active usb..... sorry for dumb Q but does that mean i have to plug it in to mains power it?  if so that is a pain!.

    Whilst i have been happy with the tracking from constellation setup, with all these quirks I cant help but feel the lighthouse system is a much simpler to use set up. the amount of cables coming from my pc is such a mess imo. (just an opinion not stating as fact based on observations  before the usual suspect accuses me of lying or some such)
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  • HoIIywoodHoIIywood Posts: 320
    Nexus 6
    edited December 2016
    The requirements have always been upfront, but the reasons behind them maybe not widely publicized. In any case, people can find their answers on the forum, or through customer support if they are interested in the reasons why (otherwise they can just follow the clear setup instructions and trust they are true).

    To be honest, in practice I don't believe there is a noticeable difference between using the sensors on USB 3.0 or USB 2.0. From what I was told, there is a benefit from USB 3.0 but honestly USB 2.0 works fine and in my experience the difference in quality is that great or even noticeable at all.

    The requirements are that only 2 sensors can be on USB 3.0, while the others be on USB 2.0. It doesn't matter which ones are which. So you can have your two front sensors on USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 and then have the back senor (3rd sensor) on USB 3.0 if you want. That's fine.
    If a customer has to take the extra step of going onto another medium (the internet forums which are not classed as on official source for product information) to find further details to make their product work, then that's a marketing and business model failure.

    Imagine a forum that didn't have a direct representative as yourself, or other members who were forth coming with sharing data....we'd be lost.

    You are right, I don't believe there is a difference.

    But now you are adding fuel to my claim about misinformation. You are stating that the 'requirements' are that two sensors be on 3.0 and one be on 2.0. That is not what Oculus claims at all. They say it's optional under the premise that you can't arrange a 3.0 connection. 


    TwoHedWlf said:
    HoIIywood said:
    It was bad enough that Oculus went with USB for the sensors, 
    Do you have a suggestion for something else they should have used?
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    active usb..... sorry for dumb Q but does that mean i have to plug it in to mains power it?  if so that is a pain!.

    Whilst i have been happy with the tracking from constellation setup, with all these quirks I cant help but feel the lighthouse system is a much simpler to use set up. the amount of cables coming from my pc is such a mess imo. (just an opinion not stating as fact based on observations  before the usual suspect accuses me of lying or some such)

    and no, you do not have to mains power it. It's a feature of the cable that is going to be useless for most people because those whom tried to plan and arrange a setup for three cameras, went out and bought all USB 3.0 extenders, of which were passive because past a certain length, even active cables were having difficulty.

    Which leads me on to ...
    elboffor said:

    @elboffor, are you sure? I'd read it was a passive 15ft USB 2 cable, and 5 metres would be fine for passive.

    Well either way, cyber's confirmed it's a bandwidth issue that's the reason for USB 2.

    This is the actual cable (very cheap looking i must admit)

    The fact they had to use an active one as well..where as all the others we've been sticking to and advised are passive. Just more confusion...
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,479 Volunteer Moderator
    edited December 2016
    My understanding is that the cable takes the power from the USB bus, it must take very little power though, given it's just amplifying and cleaning up the signal
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  • kevink808kevink808 Posts: 781 Poster of the Week
    A lot of conjecture here...how about actually applying the various cable/cam setups and reporting back?
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  • Warrior-johnWarrior-john Posts: 14
    NerveGear
    After setting up a 3 sensor system to oculus experimental room scale instructions including the USB 2 cable in the box. I have found this works perfectly even at the point I'm farthest from the 2 front sensors with my back to them.
  • JaimieVandenberghJaimieVandenbergh Posts: 194
    Art3mis
    HoIIywood said:
    If a customer has to take the extra step of going onto another medium (the internet forums which are not classed as on official source for product information) to find further details to make their product work, then that's a marketing and business model failure.
    Hollywood, do you actually have an issue? I plugged my third sensor into a spare USB port and everything Just Worked. Happened to be USB3, but I've tried it in a USB2 as well, continued to Just Work.

    Nothing you've said reveals why you're being so scathing about the supplied info.
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 23,033 Oculus Staff
    The point I was trying to make is that the setup process, which runs when you first connect your Rift or Touch, clearly states what hardware is needed, and tests all the ports and cables. So, for example, if you run out of USB 3.0 bandwidth it will tell you on the screen and advice to use a USB 2.0 port. The exact reasons are not really important, but if people are really interested, they can find the info on their own. Understanding the why is not needed to use the product.
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,338 Valuable Player
    Good point well made cyber
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  • WTFGamerWTFGamer Posts: 5
    NerveGear
    .cybereality said:
    The point I was trying to make is that the setup process, which runs when you first connect your Rift or Touch, clearly states what hardware is needed, and tests all the ports and cables. So, for example, if you run out of USB 3.0 bandwidth it will tell you on the screen and advice to use a USB 2.0 port. The exact reasons are not really important, but if people are really interested, they can find the info on their own. Understanding the why is not needed to use the product.
    I would have appreciated a link to where I can find this information instead of a "Look it up!". My goal is to do an optimal setup. To me, that's a great reason for knowing WHY something is being done.I don't know what I'm doing. I'm looking for the experts to help me out.

    I just had a headset fail after 3 days of use. Lucky for me, I bought 2 units. One was going to be returned to a vendor who shipped it later than expected. Without one, I'd suspect I may have been dealing with days of back and forth waiting on support to walk me through drivers and reinstalls that would not have resolved the issue. When I contact support, I'd like to get a quick solution to my problems. Especially so soon after purchase.

    Not having phone support to me is borderline crazy for a new technology. If you go the online ticket method, you'd better be responsive and detailed in every aspect. Downtime is the fastest way to getting a final return on the product. 
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