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I feel abandoned about AAA games support on Steam, please help

dan108dan108 Posts: 85
Hiro Protagonist
Yesterday I have read about the Htc Vive exclusive for the AAA game L.A.Noire. I bought Oculus this summers's sale to buy games also on Steam as many people did. It's just a peripheral, a complex monitor 2.0 basically, it's a pain to see developers giving exclusives to some monitors instead than others. To be honest I'm angry with this really narrow minded. People like me just committed sacrifices to buy Oculus Rift and give trust to the new VR market in general, and now the first AAA games such L.A. Noire, Fallout 4, Doom VFR, are just off the official Rift suppot on Steam. As a customer I wish to run in the opposite direction. Maybe I had to wait before jumping into the vr market. I couldn't afford a vive and I wouldn't because they are going to replace their controllers design, so I bought the Rift for a better price and it is awesome, it could make run/display those AAA games very very well.
I see/feel like if I'm in a situation of being abandoned. Is it like this? I hope someone can do something. Maybe just letting our voices reach the right people could count.
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Comments

  • Devlin-DarksideDevlin-Darkside Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    I think we will be able to play L.A.Noire at some point. It will just take a while to get to us rift users.
  • dan108dan108 Posts: 85
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited September 8
    To be honest I'm considering to go for the full refound from the shop were I bought it, it is not possible this situation.
    If I'll maybe have to wait some months or a year, I will probably wait until I understand which VR peripheral can run games without embargoed as if we were in a war, then I will buy the right product. 
    I just want to have fun. Before I bought Oculus I asked everywhere if it were supporting Steam games and the situations appeared "sunshine and roses", but it's not.
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 2,034
    Project 2501
    Oculus have been buying Devs and releasing exclusives from day one. Oculus are very proud of their exclusives like Lone Echo and Robo Recall they spend millions for them.

    So now Steam has some great AAA titles coming from Bethesda and now Rockstar not to mention what Valve has up its sleeve.

    Good times.
  • dan108dan108 Posts: 85
    Hiro Protagonist
    Atmos73 said:
    Oculus have been buying Devs and releasing exclusives from day one. Oculus are very proud of their exclusives like Lone Echo and Robo Recall they spend millions for them.

    So now Steam has some great AAA titles coming from Bethesda and now Rockstar not to mention what Valve has up its sleeve.

    Good times.
    are not good times if we can't play them (I do not know if you have also Vive, for "we" I intend Oculus only owners).

    Vive people can play also Oculus games with the revive software. For Vive customers are good times, but for Oculus customers are very bad times.
  • maxpare79maxpare79 Posts: 1,749 Volunteer Moderator
    Ok clearly you are new to all of this...The Rift can play every SteamVR games out there, there is no such thing as a VIVE exclusive. Button placement on the controllers might be a bit weird since the game wasn't designed with the Touch in mind, but you will be able to play it. And don't count on Atmos lol to tell you that ;-)
    I am a spacesim/flightsim/racesim enthusiast first :-) I7 4770k@4.3, 16gb RAM/ Asus 1080 Strix Former DK2 Owner/Gear VR owner/CV1
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,652 Poster of the Week
    Zenimax claims that Oculus stole their IP.  Zenimax is like the borg of gaming studios.  They purchase them up, they become assimilated into the collective because when it comes to corporations and money resistance is futile.  Those titles (At least most of them) were developed by studios that were assimilated by the borg and with the lawsuit that zenimax had against Oculus/Facebook I'm sure Zenimax doesn't want Rifters to play them. (Are they still trying to get Rift taken off the shelves?)

    BUT, Bethesda just slammed HTC for advertising Fallout 4 as a Vive exclusive and Vive backpeddled saying they didn't realize they made the mistake.  I'm sure this stuff is going to be available on rift officially.  Until then I'm sure they'll have something like Re-vive for Rift with crappy wand problems.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,652 Poster of the Week
    dan108 said:
    To be honest I'm considering to go for the full refound from the shop were I bought it, it is not possible this situation.
    If I'll maybe have to wait some months or a year, I will probably wait until I understand which VR peripheral can run games without embargoed as if we were in a war, then I will buy the right product. 
    I just want to have fun. Before I bought Oculus I asked everywhere if it were supporting Steam games and the situations appeared "sunshine and roses", but it's not.
    You're running out of time on that receipt, better hurry.  And only buy from established brands that are not stepping into something new like Sony, Nintendo or Xbox.  VR is still in early adoption times, you've got several years to go, probably at least 5 if not 10.

  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,652 Poster of the Week
    dan108 said:
    Atmos73 said:
    Oculus have been buying Devs and releasing exclusives from day one. Oculus are very proud of their exclusives like Lone Echo and Robo Recall they spend millions for them.

    So now Steam has some great AAA titles coming from Bethesda and now Rockstar not to mention what Valve has up its sleeve.

    Good times.
    are not good times if we can't play them (I do not know if you have also Vive, for "we" I intend Oculus only owners).

    Vive people can play also Oculus games with the revive software. For Vive customers are good times, but for Oculus customers are very bad times.

    HTC is trying to sell off the Vive right now, I'd be worried that my hardware would be abandoned soon if I were a vive owner, maybe someone with money and drive will purchase it, but then again maybe they'll sell or license off their IP to other parties that want to use it with their new products... 
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 2,034
    Project 2501
    falken76 said:
    dan108 said:
    Atmos73 said:
    Oculus have been buying Devs and releasing exclusives from day one. Oculus are very proud of their exclusives like Lone Echo and Robo Recall they spend millions for them.

    So now Steam has some great AAA titles coming from Bethesda and now Rockstar not to mention what Valve has up its sleeve.

    Good times.
    are not good times if we can't play them (I do not know if you have also Vive, for "we" I intend Oculus only owners).

    Vive people can play also Oculus games with the revive software. For Vive customers are good times, but for Oculus customers are very bad times.

    HTC is trying to sell off the Vive right now, I'd be worried that my hardware would be abandoned soon if I were a vive owner, maybe someone with money and drive will purchase it, but then again maybe they'll sell or license off their IP to other parties that want to use it with their new products... 

    HTC is not trying to sell off its Vive business but it is trying to sell its phone business to Google. Once the deal is done HTC could very well be VR only.

    HTC have their mobile HMD coming very soon and Vive 2 coming next year.
  • FunkyLasagneFunkyLasagne Posts: 114
    Art3mis
    Atmos73 said:
    Oculus have been buying Devs and releasing exclusives from day one. Oculus are very proud of their exclusives like Lone Echo and Robo Recall they spend millions for them.

    So now Steam has some great AAA titles coming from Bethesda and now Rockstar not to mention what Valve has up its sleeve.

    Good times.
    Why "Good times"?
  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,261 Poster of the Week
    Listen if it's any consolation, the VIVE sucks. I wouldn't even WANT to play those games If I could only play them on vive. I've had vive, I sold vive, no thankyou! CRAP crap crap (it really is a janky pos). It would ruin VR for me. Even if they weren't on rift or can't be on rift, I'd prefer to wait for Vive 2 or LG or something better than VIVE 1 to play those games on.

    Meanwhile Rift has a ton of polished content, the best ergonomics/controllers in the business and you I assume bought it for a very good bargain price as did I. I've already had my money's worth just using it in Unreal engine and one or two games, it's brought me more joy in 6 weeks than Vive did all that time back, and it cost me half as much! 

    And besides, rift will run most stuff on Steam VR just may not have the controllers mapped well. 

    I get the feeling a lot of the devs are doing it because of anti-facebook/monopoly reasons, and I'm actually all for that, because I'm not a rfit fanboy I just looked at the gear available in gen 1 and RIFT is the ONLY one worth any cash at all! If those games didn't work on it, so be it, I'll wait till gen 2 and go where I need. The devs and maybe now even Palmer himself want to get things open and away from Facebook, I didn't buy into rift in the sale to be on the facebook bandwagon forever, I bought what was best for me right now. VIVE is not worth it. simple!
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
    System: 8700k O/C 4.9ghz ACT awaiting Volta or at least Pascal Refresh!
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 2,034
    Project 2501
    Good times when Steam has the lions share of AAA titles and this Oculus exclusivity nonsense counts for nothing.
  • maxpare79maxpare79 Posts: 1,749 Volunteer Moderator
    Atmos73 said:
    Good times when Steam has the lions share of AAA titles and this Oculus exclusivity nonsense counts for nothing.
    FO4 is getting negatives or mixed reviews pretty much from everyone who tried it, Skyrim VR (PS4) as well, only Doom is getting positive reviews. What's the point of having AAA titles and messing them up. It will only hurt VR in the long run and in the case of Bethesda definitely just a cash grab. 
    But sure go ahead and spend 60$ on a stripped down AAA title if you want.
    But I have high hopes for LA Noir, loved that game and the pace of the gameplay will port well to VR. 
    I am a spacesim/flightsim/racesim enthusiast first :-) I7 4770k@4.3, 16gb RAM/ Asus 1080 Strix Former DK2 Owner/Gear VR owner/CV1
  • FunkyLasagneFunkyLasagne Posts: 114
    Art3mis
    edited September 8
    Atmos73 said:
    Good times when Steam has the lions share of AAA titles and this Oculus exclusivity nonsense counts for nothing.
    Aaah, so good times when Valve has exclusivity on their platform then.  It always strikes me a as funny that people are so accepting of Valve doing that which they accuse Oculus of. 
  • shiarishiari Posts: 140
    Art3mis
    Atmos73 said:
    Good times when Steam has the lions share of AAA titles and this Oculus exclusivity nonsense counts for nothing.
    Aaah, so good times when Valve has exclusivity on their platform then.  It always strikes me a as funny that people are so accepting of Valve doing that which they accuse Oculus of. 
    Yup, true colours are shining through brightly.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,364 Valuable Player
    Currently there's no such thing as a Vive exclusive, and if that changes in the future someone will find a way around it like they did with Google Earth VR a while back. Keep your Rift.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 1,449 Poster of the Week
    Whats a steam excusive

    Is it something in the urban dictionary?
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 274 Poster of the Week
    Same question. Steam is just a retailer, like Amazon or Walmart.
  • RorschachPhoenixRorschachPhoenix Posts: 1,577 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    falken76 said:
    dan108 said:
    Atmos73 said:
    Oculus have been buying Devs and releasing exclusives from day one. Oculus are very proud of their exclusives like Lone Echo and Robo Recall they spend millions for them.

    So now Steam has some great AAA titles coming from Bethesda and now Rockstar not to mention what Valve has up its sleeve.

    Good times.
    are not good times if we can't play them (I do not know if you have also Vive, for "we" I intend Oculus only owners).

    Vive people can play also Oculus games with the revive software. For Vive customers are good times, but for Oculus customers are very bad times.

    HTC is trying to sell off the Vive right now, I'd be worried that my hardware would be abandoned soon if I were a vive owner, maybe someone with money and drive will purchase it, but then again maybe they'll sell or license off their IP to other parties that want to use it with their new products... 

    HTC is not trying to sell off its Vive business but it is trying to sell its phone business to Google. Once the deal is done HTC could very well be VR only.

    HTC have their mobile HMD coming very soon and Vive 2 coming next year.
    Source, please!
    Excuse my bad english. I speak to you through the google translator. :P
  • xJustJohnxxJustJohnx Posts: 51
    Brain Burst
    The truth is, these things are only SteamVR exclusive, not exclusive to the Vive headset.  LG has a SteamVR headset on the horizon, which would function the same Vive without any hiccups.  The fact that companies continue to advertise their games as "coming to Vive" is simply marketing in favor of the only product that's native for that ecosystem right now, but both Rift and skeptically the Windows mixed reality headsets should function for these games, as well.
  • zork2001zork2001 Posts: 508
    Trinity
    edited September 8
    you can play every game on the pc for both the vive and rift if you want, end of story.

    edit they both use the same drivers for the motion control and the tracking, the developer does not even have to do anything to make sure they work for both systems.
  • dan108dan108 Posts: 85
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited September 8

    A lot of games have this icon on Steam which means that the game is compatible with both: Vive and Steam



    But, on some games there is only this label, and this is what I expect to see with "Vive Exclusives such as L.A. Noire, Fallout 4, Doom VFR.



    What does this labels means? This labels means that the game control scheme is optimized in exclusive for Vive, not for Oculus Rift. And what does this mean....?  This means that even if thanks to OpenVR every games published on Steam VR will display with both the systems (Oculus and Vive), the control scheme will be converted from vive to oculus in automatic (without developers intervent), so the issue is with the controller compatibility, Vive pad doesn't always convert well to touch sticks.

    a quote from internet say
    "control schemes do not always translate well between a zero-order controller (Vive touchpads) and a first-order controller (Touch analog sticks). With many using the Vive touch-pads as extra buttons due to the lack of physical buttons, which can make use with a stick awkward or impossible (to way to move a stick to the top before 'clicking; if the 'click' has been defined as a capacitive contact event, for example)."

    So what I ask to Oculus with this topic is to try to fix this problem working in active cooperation with steamvr. Or we will probably be out from the party for many games.  




  • dan108dan108 Posts: 85
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited September 8
    Thanks to OpenVR (developed by Valve) all the VR games that are published on Steam that have not the oculus magic label like this....

    ....will works anyway by with a major very very bad difference (that is one of the reasons why I'm here to speech): OpenVR does convert automatically (without developers intervent) the control scheme of the Vive to the one of the Oculus Touch, the issue will be the controller compatibility. Vive pad doesn't always convert well to Touch sticks.
    A quote from a famous blog explain: "control schemes do not always translate well between a zero-order controller (Vive touchpads) and a first-order controller (Touch analog sticks). With many using the Vive touch-pads as extra buttons due to the lack of physical buttons, which can make use with a stick awkward or impossible (to way to move a stick to the top before 'clicking; if the 'click' has been defined as a capacitive contact event, for example)."

    This mean that if L.A. Noire, Fallout 4, Doom VFR will have not that magic label but will have only the Vive label....

    ....the Oculus customers will probably be unable to play the game.

    The problem is so huge that I can't relax when I think about the value for money of my buy (Oculus Bundle), I had to take literally -all- the money in my wardrobe to buy Oculus Rift. I'm sorry for my "outburst" but I wanted to tell all the truth. I just wish to play the coolest games that will comes from Steam.

    I wish to gently ask Facebook/Oculus developers to try active help Steam developers to make custom control scheme mapping for individual game relase on Steam, and not letting anymore do the job to the automatic (broke) conversion applied by OpenVR, please. Wikipedia say that OpenVR is a cooperation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVR), I hope to see this shine, please help.

  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 274 Poster of the Week
    It can result in strange button bindings though. Of course there is a very old solution to that problem, allow users to edit button assignments. I can't remember the first time I saw such a feature, possibly the first computer I ever used when I plugged in a joystick for the first time. But that's just a wild guess.

    As I've said plenty of times here and elsewhere, the sooner all this stuff gets standardized in some way, the better. It has to get standardized before VR becomes truly mainstream.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,999 Power Poster
    edited September 9
    Atmos73 said:
    Oculus have been buying Devs and releasing exclusives from day one. Oculus are very proud of their exclusives like Lone Echo and Robo Recall they spend millions for them.

    So now Steam has some great AAA titles coming from Bethesda and now Rockstar not to mention what Valve has up its sleeve.

    Good times.
    I do agree that having "Vive Exclusives" is Good Times (although since they are Steam games available for everyone it doesn't make much sense). However, you are the person who heatedly argued that exclusives are bad for VR:

    "I feel Oculus's business model is fatally flawed. Even Steam has the sense to support the Rift because business is business."
    https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/36877/oculus-should-build-their-own-console-xbone-support-rumors-gather-pace/p1

    You have blatantly accused the "exclusive business model" as being responsible for fragmenting the PC VR Market.

    How quickly you change your tune.

    But the biggest disappointment is the fact Oculus split from Valve and fragmented the PC VR market. It's not only damaged the VR market by locking people out of certain HMD's but it's damaged the PC market as a whole because more people will look at PC and say why buy or upgrade an expensive PC and run two £800 headsets when I can get a PSVR for £400 and don't have to worry about exclusives.
    https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/451377/#Comment_451377


    Looking on Steam last night and I see Adrift is on there which is a RIFT EXCLUSIVE. Nothing for Vive.


    I guess its confirmation Steam supports the GAMER and not one HMD over the other.
    https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/342537/#Comment_342537


    you don't care about the other 90% of PC user's who actually don't want 20 different HDM's floating around its just a logistical nightmare.
    https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/392042/#Comment_392042


    All it took was an old remastered VR Game to be marketed as the first real "AAA Vive Exclusive" for Atmos to perform an instant 180 on his year-long ideals. lol

    I'm glad Vive has exclusives coming - even though their reliance on the very public Steam platform makes that very much an oxymoron. But all this over a Remastered Port? I mean really... just when I think that HTC can't set the bar any lower...
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,999 Power Poster
    edited September 9
    dan108 said:
    I see/feel like if I'm in a situation of being abandoned. Is it like this? I hope someone can do something. Maybe just letting our voices reach the right people could count.
    It's not an abandonment, it's simply HTC's attempt to have their users feel as special as Oculus makes Rift owners feel; to be perfectly honest. We have many exclusives: Chronos, The Climb, Dead & Buried, Robo Recall, The Unspoken, Lucky's Tale. And at least we have original exclusives that have a AAA feel. Vivarians are stuck with a Remastered Port as their first attempt with glory :D

    Vive users are forced to use a 3rd party app to play Oculus Exclusives (e.g. Revive). Thus, we can reasonably expect Rift owners to have to use similar 3rd party app's to play exclusives from other platforms.

    No harm done. And in the end, it's good for competition. The market with respond with a game that can compete directly with L.A. Noire.
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • dan108dan108 Posts: 85
    Hiro Protagonist
    Zenbane said:
    dan108 said:
    I see/feel like if I'm in a situation of being abandoned. Is it like this? I hope someone can do something. Maybe just letting our voices reach the right people could count.
    It's not an abandonment, it's simply HTC's attempt to have their users feel as special as Oculus makes Rift owners feel; to be perfectly honest. We have many exclusives: Chronos, The Climb, Dead & Buried, Robo Recall, The Unspoken, Lucky's Tale. And at least we have original exclusives that have a AAA feel. Vivarians are stuck with a Remastered Port as their first attempt with glory :D

    Vive users are forced to use a 3rd party app to play Oculus Exclusives (e.g. Revive). Thus, we can reasonably expect Rift owners to have to use similar 3rd party app's to play exclusives from other platforms.

    No harm done. And in the end, it's good for competition. The market with respond with a game that can compete directly with L.A. Noire.
    it's not because I repeat Vive owners can play Oculus exclusives with revive. so it's a problem that exist only here, for facebook/oculus customers. this problem doesn't even exist for vive customers.
  • dan108dan108 Posts: 85
    Hiro Protagonist
    the only way I see to exit from this situation are: 1) more cooperation from Oculus devs and OpenVR (Valve) developers to help having better control mapping scheme for each games. helping for example adding a feature such as the one suggested by @BeastyBaiter to "allow users to edit button assignments". 2) Help Revive to support Oculus Rift to work with Vive exclusives. You can read something here: https://www.roadtovr.com/revive-creator-joins-openxr-initiative-help-create-truly-open-vr-standard/ 3) buy another device could help sleeping better.
  • OpticKingOpticKing Posts: 1,184 Poster of the Week
    dan108 said:
    it's not because I repeat Vive owners can play Oculus exclusives with revive. so it's a problem that exist only here, for facebook/oculus customers. this problem doesn't even exist for vive customers.  
    Alas, there is no problem, as others have previously stated, we can play anything/everything on steamvr with the rift. The only thing I'm aware of that even purposefully blocked the rift was Google Earth VR, BEFORE we had the touch controllers, as that was the only decent way coded to navigate. (it felt VERY wonky using keyboard for it) 

    But that lasted less than 24 hours as someone uploaded a single file to drop in Google Earth VR directory and it allowed rift users to "look" like a vive so we could play it as well.

    So really there is no issue here, when these games come to steam, we can play them as well on the rift, even if we need a mod to fix the controls for touch (as the touch thumbsticks have input different than the crappy wand pads) or a file to bypass an intentional block which probably wont even happen.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,999 Power Poster
    edited September 9
    dan108 said:
    it's not because I repeat Vive owners can play Oculus exclusives with revive. so it's a problem that exist only here, for facebook/oculus customers. this problem doesn't even exist for vive customers.
    You might just have to be a little patient. Afteral, Revive wasn't available right at Launch. Vive users had to wait awhile before they could use Revive to play the Rift Exclusives. Plus, not all Oculus Exclusives were instantly available. It takes awhile.

    Patience is the key to happiness.


    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

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