LA Noire The VR Case Files for HTC Vive — Oculus
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LA Noire The VR Case Files for HTC Vive

Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,668 Valuable Player
Rockstar Games has just announced new versions of its detective thriller LA Noire for Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (releasing November 14th 2017). Alongside these three new console versions, they are taking their  first steps into virtual reality with L.A. Noire: The VR Case Files, featuring seven select cases from the original game rebuilt specifically for a virtual reality experience on the HTC VIVE.
 
-L.A. Noire: The VR Case Files for HTC Vive delivers seven of the original engrossing, self-contained cases from L.A. Noire rebuilt specifically for virtual reality, blending breathtaking action with true detective work to deliver an unprecedented interactive experience.
 
 :o 


System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
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Comments

  • BoneboysBoneboys Posts: 68
    Hiro Protagonist
    LA Noire is (was) one of the best 3D Vision games available, the implementation was/is excellent, if you have the material required (120mhz screen + integrated capture & glasses).
    I'm not surprised that it is the first Rockstar VR production, I will definitely buy, once sure that it works for us Rifters.

    Good news for VR in general, Vive in particular.
    Get a Grasp, get a Grip, get Rifting.
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 3,128 Valuable Player
    Good news for VR and great to see another gaming giants come to Vive. With Valve, Bethesda and now Rockstar who needs exclusives?

    The Heart of Emberstone in September.
    L. A Noire in November.
    Doom VFR and FO4 in December! 

    Good times.
    DK2 owner - Vive owner - Pimax 8k backer - Waiting for Knuckles on Valve time.
  • Percy1983Percy1983 Posts: 1,410
    Wintermute
    No reason this won't work with the rift, shame the controls will be gimped down to the Vive dev kit... I mean commercially released wands, rather than use the full control the touch and probably knuckles will offer.
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  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 3,128 Valuable Player
    Come come now. Devs have Knuckles. No gimping needed. If anything Rifters will get the gimped down Touch version lol
    DK2 owner - Vive owner - Pimax 8k backer - Waiting for Knuckles on Valve time.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,927 Valuable Player
    This is why this year will probably be the last year that Oculus announce another $250m for developers next year. The AAA titles are now starting to appear. Great news.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 3,128 Valuable Player
    But they're not appearing on OH where they need to be to make OH sustainable. 
    DK2 owner - Vive owner - Pimax 8k backer - Waiting for Knuckles on Valve time.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,290 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Atmos73 said:
    Come come now. Devs have Knuckles. No gimping needed. If anything Rifters will get the gimped down Touch version lol
    Atmos73 said:
    But they're not appearing on OH where they need to be to make OH sustainable. 
    Seriously... this thread isn't about Vive vs Rift; you lost that battle. Don't be such a sore loser, time to move on mister ;)

    Also, all VR titles playable by the Rift will appear automatically in OH. I've downloaded external titles like the Tomb Raider 2 VR Mod and Resident Evil VR... both are now in my OH Library. You have no idea what you're talking about.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 3,128 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    They're not appearing to buy on Oculus Home is what I meant. You lose.
    DK2 owner - Vive owner - Pimax 8k backer - Waiting for Knuckles on Valve time.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,290 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    They're not appearing to buy on Oculus Home is what I meant. You lose.
    That's not what you said originally. Per usual, you lose one battle and then try to move the goal post. It's never worked for ya in the past, and aint gonna work for you here either. You lost, move on ;)
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,364 Volunteer Moderator
    Having never played LA Noire, everything I know about it is from Gamer Poop videos, so my understanding may be a bit off. :)

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,290 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    Percy1983 said:
    No reason this won't work with the rift, shame the controls will be gimped down to the Vive dev kit... I mean commercially released wands, rather than use the full control the touch and probably knuckles will offer.
    I'm sure the game will be cute n' all, but it is just a remaster of an original game. As most folks are saying on the related Facebook pages...
    So instead of making a new la noire, they took the cheap route and decided to remaster

    At least you are working on LA NOIRE. What about making a new game called LA NOIRE 2

    Stop remastering all your games and make a godamn sequel

    https://www.facebook.com/lanoire/

    https://www.facebook.com/rockstargames/


    I haven't seen anyone mention this on the forum yet, so might as well talk about it here (if Shadow doesn't mind). We should all expect to start seeing Vive exclusives popping up over the next year; as noted by the 2017 VR/AR Innovation Report, which can be downloaded here:
    http://reg.vrdconf.com/VRDC-2017-Innovation-Report

    I grabbed a copy and read through it. I thought about creating a new thread to discuss it, but the contents are prime for a "VR HMD War" which has been highly overplayed.

    The thing I found most interesting is the fact that Developers are actively planning to make exclusive content for the Vive, as shows by these survey results:





    Now, before this goes flying off the rails, I want to say that I believe this is a good thing. Platform Exclusives are a very healthy way to use competition to drive innovation. For example, if La Noire remains exclusive to the Vive... my first thought is, "that's okay because Dead Secret 2 is coming to the Rift."

    It's not about competition wars, it's about looking forward to the resulting innovation. Then maybe Rockstar Games will finally make an LA Noire sequel (as fans clearly want), and then Rift owners will look forward to Dead Secret 3! The cycle of fun continues. And that's what it's supposed to be about anyway: fun.

    More exclusives are coming, and if Rift owners want to play them then we may have to do what other folks have done... download Revive to use its OpenXR Layer:
    Revive Creator Joins OpenXR Initiative ‘to help create a truly open VR standard
    https://www.roadtovr.com/revive-creator-joins-openxr-initiative-help-create-truly-open-vr-standard/


    If I ever use Revive, it certainly won't be for a Remastered game.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 788
    3Jane
    edited September 2017
    Windows HMD's are not a platform, they are fancy monitors. It is not reasonable to argue that an Acer monitor exclusive is a good thing nor is it reasonable to argue the same for the Rift, Vive, Pimax 4k or any of the others.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,364 Volunteer Moderator
    Windows HMD's are not a platform, they are fancy monitors. It is not reasonable to argue that an Acer monitor exclusive is a good thing nor is it reasonable to argue the same for the Rift, Vive, Pimax 4k or any of the others.
    Except monitors don't require that games are written with device specific sdks to run on them.


  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 788
    3Jane
    That's my point, HMD's shouldn't either. VR should be standardized as should motion controllers (like joysticks are standardized, they have different buttons, configurations and features, but all are treated the same from a programmer's standpoint).
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,290 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    That's my point, HMD's shouldn't either. VR should be standardized as should motion controllers (like joysticks are standardized, they have different buttons, configurations and features, but all are treated the same from a programmer's standpoint).
    I'm not much of a fan of this approach. Computer Technology and Info Tech are ever-changing, ever-growing, and ever-evolving. Standards need to be tested and reviewed repeatedly before being published as an actual Official Standard. However, in this ever-evolving industry... by the time a Standard goes through all of that testing and reviewing, the landscape has changed thus rending the Standard non-applicable mere moments after it gets published.

    The Virtual Reality industry is still trying to figure out how to best implement immersion (FOV, Resolution, Tracking, Audio), while also trying to establish comfort levels, while also trying to perfect motion sickness issues, while also trying to increase the level of Presence, while also trying to decrease hardware requirements/dependencies...

    The environment itself is about 5 years away from anything that could possibly resemble "stability." Talks of Standards now are simply premature and unrealistic, imo.

    Besides, even if a Standard was created, there would be some company going against it. And that's the company I'd choose to give my money to.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 788
    3Jane
    edited September 2017
    That's the thing about standards, they are designed to apply in the broadest sense. What do motion controllers capture? If we break it down, it is:

    1) Position in x, y and z axes
    2) Rotation about x, y and z axes
    3) Button presses (including the touch sensors that detect if your finger/thumb is touching something without pressing).
    4) Analog controller inputs (thumbsticks, triggers, grips)

    That's it, it doesn't matter if it is a vive wand, the rift's touch controllers or something totally different 30 years from now. That is all they do now and all they will ever do unless someone decides to put in thermal sensors or something silly. But even then, a thermal sensor is an analog control, so yeah, it's a thumbstick as far as the code is concerned.

    Taking that style approach is the reason a game developer can support everything from a bare bones joystick to a high end HOTAS to a race wheel to pedals to a simple xbox controller without writing a single extra line of code to do so. If they support one, they support them all. The only catch is they must also include the ability to rebind axis and buttons since these are all drastically different controllers and they can't possibly account for them all.

    The VR headsets are just as simple. All they really are is a dual monitor setup with a slight offset in the images. This can be generalized to:

    1) Resolution per eye
    2) IPD
    3) View angle along the x and y axes
    4) Position in x, y and z axes
    5) Rotation in x, y and z axes

    Obviously headsets can have additional things such as microphones and headphones, but these are already treated as general I/O devices by windows. That bit is already standardized.

    Edit: I did think of one possible addition, and that is a force feedback effect for something like a mechanical glove (I've seen some youtube videos of them). But once again, not a big deal and could be added to the standard without issue. Force feedback effects are already standardized for wheels and joysticks. No reason it can't apply to such things.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,364 Volunteer Moderator
    That's my point, HMD's shouldn't either. VR should be standardized as should motion controllers (like joysticks are standardized, they have different buttons, configurations and features, but all are treated the same from a programmer's standpoint).
    You've never done PC game input programming. :)

    Just look at how even huge games like Dark Souls have broken input, I have to unplug every usb controller (hotas, rudder pedals, cad controller, etc) otherwise it's xbox controller support is broken.

    How are you accessing the joystick? Xinput? DirectInput? Raw Input? USB HID? All have different issues. XInput can see two triggers on an xbox controller, but can't handle any non MS game controller. DirectInput thinks an xbox controller has only 1 trigger (left is -1, right is 1) and no headphone socket, but handles more devices. But it can't see multiple mice or keyboards as individuals, reads mice at lower res and only supports 32 buttons (my HOTAS has more). Raw input doesn't do the standardising of device controls, you are now dealing with raw data packets you need to reverse engineer for each device, but it gives better access to features like high mouse resolution. USB HID is the lowest level, similar to raw input.

    You may well need to support all of those alternative input libraries: xinput if you detect an xbox controller, directinput if you detect another joystick, raw input for mouse, HID for custom devices like 3d Connexion, then custom sdks for other devices like novint falcon, trackir, etc. Just like VR, needing to support Oculus SDK, OpenVR, whatever MS calls their stuff.

    We also end up with exclusives to certain input devices. Black and White had custom content just for one specific model of Logitech mouse (it had vibration). A lot of games don't support (or very badly support, from axis mappings right up to just not working at all) anything that isn't an xbox controller. Portal 2 has an entire custom campaign only for owners of a Razer Hydra. The haptic editions of Penumbra Overture and Penumbra Black Plague are specifically for the Novint Falcon. NaturalPoint use FUD and threats to drop support to force developers like Eagle Dynamics (DCS) to not support competing head tracking sdks.



    Ok, sorry, got a bit distracted there. I've been doing game input programming (especially for odd devices) and ranting about bad input support in games for many years, right back to the amiga days where I'd hack hardware to get around the limits of bad standards.
    Things are WAY better now than they used to be, but we still aren't at the point where programmers don't need to care about what's plugged in.



    We definitely need a standardised interface to VR. But the danger is doing it too early.
    While VR has been around for a LONG time, actual game VR development stagnated due to limited hardware (until recent hardware, things like Async Time Warp and Async Space Warp were out of the reach of consumers). The ones doing research into VR (like the military) didn't care about friendly game store cooperation, they were making $30000+ proprietary devices. Systems like Vuzix did almost nothing in their sdks, just told you the current rotation. Everything else was up to the developer.

    Oculus has done more to develop performance features (ATW, ASW, other stuff inside of the sdk). Valve has done more to make room scale safe (oculus guardian is really just a clone of Vive chaperone). Both have contributed research into differing aspects of VR. MS are doing interesting stuff with world scale spatial tracking and OS integration.

    Now that features are fairly stable, it's the time for a group like OpenXR to step in and standardise, based on all of the research and progress done by individual companies. Sucks for consumers in the short term, but it gives a better end result in the long term by not stifling innovation with under-prepared standards (that just causes more standards to propagate).


    Hang on, what was this topic about again?
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 788
    3Jane
    edited September 2017
    Those are just different standards/libraries with assorted advantages and disadvantages. But they are all reasonably standard. Some developers do fall terribly short though. This is often an issue with console ports as they may be designed strictly for an xbox controller and it never even occurs to the developer that something else might be plugged in. You aren't the only one who's encountered such nonsense, it bugs me just as much. My programming pet peve is single threaded applications. It irritates me to no end when a game has low FPS or a program is going to take 20 minutes to do something because it's using 100% of a single CPU thread and nothing else, despite 11 more CPU threads being idle. There is no excuse for that kind of crap, just as there is no excuse for controllers interfering with each other.
  • BoneboysBoneboys Posts: 68
    Hiro Protagonist
    Well, that went off-topic rather fast !

    I could give reasons why I believe Rockstar chose to develop a VR version of LA Noire, or write about the cool aspects of the original game but I'll let you guys discover that for yourselves.

    I'm still going to buy because the game was so impressive using a 3D Vision setup that my expectations for a remade VR version are high.
    Get a Grasp, get a Grip, get Rifting.
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 788
    3Jane
    Sorry for assisting in derailing. So yeah, it might be a good game. I never played LA Noire but I remember it looking interesting at the time. Just one of the many games I never got around to messing with. Hopefully it works reasonably well with the Rift, might pick it up if it does.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,290 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    That's the thing about standards, they are designed to apply in the broadest sense. 
    That is completely untrue. You are thinking about Guidelines, not Standards. Although even Guidelines have a specific tone (as opposed to "broadest sense").

    The Standards for HTTPS, for example, are extremely specific. I've not only written Standards for organizations, I've also had to write software to specific standards (e.g. Financial Software that adheres to PCI standardization).

    Feel free to cite some examples of Standards that are meant to address things in the "broadest sense," specific to Information Technology.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 788
    3Jane
    You're just trying to nitpick and redefine words. You know exactly what I mean when I say standard.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,290 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    You're just trying to nitpick and redefine words. You know exactly what I mean when I say standard.
    I haven't presented any definitions. One can't "redefine" a word until it is first been "defined," right? Besides, use whatever definition you choose, I asked you to come up with an example and you didn't.

    I know what you think you mean when you say Standard, and it's definitely not a Standard. I don't say that based on definitions, I say that based on actually applying any type of Standard to any facet of Information Technology.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 788
    3Jane
    Fine, one last bite. OpenGL is a standard method of interacting with a GPU. DirectX is also a standard method. The ATX form factor is the main standard for nearly all desktop PC's. Your mouse using USB is an example of standard. The fact that USB exists at all is an example of a standard. PCI-E slots and DDR4 are standards. The fact that you can go to amazon, buy a random keyboard from a manufacturer nobody has ever heard of and fully expect it to work just fine with your PC is an example of a standard. The fact that you can plug a random TV never intended for use with a PC into the HDMI or Display port on the back of your PC and have it work is an example of a standard. The entire consumer PC industry has been built on standards. Without them, we'd still be screwing around with Commadore 64's and Apple EII's.

    These standards have been made by a variety of groups over the years with the help (and sometimes without) of a wide variety of manufacturers and developers. The Khronos Group (responsible for current OpenGL and Vulkan) are attempting to create a standardized SDK for VR related devices. They are not the only ones attempting to do this, Valve is attempting a competing option and I suspect Microsoft will do the same by bundling something into DirectX.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,290 Valuable Player
    edited September 2017
    OpenGL is a standard method of interacting with a GPU. DirectX is also a standard method. The ATX form factor is the main standard for nearly all desktop PC's. Your mouse using USB is an example of standard. The fact that USB exists at all is an example of a standard. PCI-E slots and DDR4 are standards. The fact that you can go to amazon, buy a random keyboard from a manufacturer nobody has ever heard of and fully expect it to work just fine with your PC is an example of a standard. The fact that you can plug a random TV never intended for use with a PC into the HDMI or Display port on the back of your PC and have it work is an example of a standard. The entire consumer PC industry has been built on standards. Without them, we'd still be screwing around with Commadore 64's and Apple EII's.

    Yes, these are noteworthy Standards. But what you claimed is that Standards are "designed to apply in the broadest sense." Yet all your examples are Standards that are to be applied in a very specific way.

    Hardware inputs do not change as often as Software. The Backs of TV's have been altered only slightly in the past 40 years. But Virtual Reality Touch Controllers and HMD designs are nowhere near solidifying themselves. Any Standards created now are worthless. And because the VR landscape is changing so quickly due to the nature of its infancy stage (VR had it's 1-year anniversary a few months ago), any Standards published now will become obsolete in a matter of months, if not weeks.

    There may be a time for Standards in VR one day soon (specific standards, not broadest sense stuff); but that time isn't here yet.

    This part is true:
    "The entire consumer PC industry has been built on standards."

    Yes but it took many years to get there. Which is my point. Plus, there's really only 3 major operating systems in the world (Windows, Mac, Linux). Do we really expect to keep VR limited to 3 platforms? Cause that would suck for the Industry.

    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • nroskonrosko Posts: 954
    Neo
    Zenbane said:
    Percy1983 said:
    No reason this won't work with the rift, shame the controls will be gimped down to the Vive dev kit... I mean commercially released wands, rather than use the full control the touch and probably knuckles will offer.
    I'm sure the game will be cute n' all, but it is just a remaster of an original game. As most folks are saying on the related Facebook pages...
    So instead of making a new la noire, they took the cheap route and decided to remaster

    At least you are working on LA NOIRE. What about making a new game called LA NOIRE 2

    Stop remastering all your games and make a godamn sequel

    https://www.facebook.com/lanoire/

    https://www.facebook.com/rockstargames/


    I haven't seen anyone mention this on the forum yet, so might as well talk about it here (if Shadow doesn't mind). We should all expect to start seeing Vive exclusives popping up over the next year; as noted by the 2017 VR/AR Innovation Report, which can be downloaded here:
    http://reg.vrdconf.com/VRDC-2017-Innovation-Report

    I grabbed a copy and read through it. I thought about creating a new thread to discuss it, but the contents are prime for a "VR HMD War" which has been highly overplayed.

    The thing I found most interesting is the fact that Developers are actively planning to make exclusive content for the Vive, as shows by these survey results:





    Now, before this goes flying off the rails, I want to say that I believe this is a good thing. Platform Exclusives are a very healthy way to use competition to drive innovation. For example, if La Noire remains exclusive to the Vive... my first thought is, "that's okay because Dead Secret 2 is coming to the Rift."

    It's not about competition wars, it's about looking forward to the resulting innovation. Then maybe Rockstar Games will finally make an LA Noire sequel (as fans clearly want), and then Rift owners will look forward to Dead Secret 3! The cycle of fun continues. And that's what it's supposed to be about anyway: fun.

    More exclusives are coming, and if Rift owners want to play them then we may have to do what other folks have done... download Revive to use its OpenXR Layer:
    Revive Creator Joins OpenXR Initiative ‘to help create a truly open VR standard
    https://www.roadtovr.com/revive-creator-joins-openxr-initiative-help-create-truly-open-vr-standard/


    If I ever use Revive, it certainly won't be for a Remastered game.
    psvr @ 7%?
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 788
    3Jane
    edited September 2017
    I wouldn't read too much into that poll, it doesn't have an option for not exclusive.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,927 Valuable Player
    I'm just hoping that the big publishers in the industry aren't going to base their chances of future VR projects happening based on the sales of the Bethesda and Rockstar games.

    Only one out of the four (Doom VFR) is a new game, the others are ports of old games, and LA Noir The VR Case Files isn't even a full port. And we have no idea how long the play through time of Doom VFR is going to be either, and Fallout 4 VR isn't going to include the DLC.

    Yes, they are AAA titles, but they're not titles where much effort has been put in - Skyrim VR doesn't include DLC, Fallout 4 VR doesn't include DLC, LA Noire VR Case Files has only 7 of the 24 cases from the original game and the jury is out on the content that Doom 4 VFR has.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 3,128 Valuable Player
    I've been playing Alien Isolation over the last few days and it's not even a proper port but it's still amazing. Getting supported ports is the next step up and then maybe native VR support will come for new games.

    Ports or not the intention from these Devs is there and that's what we've all been waiting for since VR was incepted. 
    DK2 owner - Vive owner - Pimax 8k backer - Waiting for Knuckles on Valve time.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,290 Valuable Player
    I wouldn't read too much into that poll, it doesn't have an option for not exclusive.
    That poll is part of a larger survey, and they did ask questions about non-exclusives. You should download the entire document before making assumptions.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
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