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game wise,is the VIVE the cool hip kid and the oculus the old guy?

tonyfromsyracusetonyfromsyracuse Posts: 13
NerveGear
I go onto YouTube or the steam store every now and then, and they always seem to have a plethora of cool interesting edgy indie type games and ideas I had no idea even existed and aren't in the oculus store and they seem to much cooler than the middle of the road mass audience fair we seem to be stuck with forever. I wonder if on the one hand if they are somehow getting exclusives faster for trying out before release or something.

I also think game makers need to stop focusing on creating full games where its clear they are trying to fly before the platform has learned to walk.....and work more on games that are more simple VR set ups
for instance....take that incredible T-rex demo where it walks up to you...well....why not have a simple game where its in a warehouse trying to get you? no full game just a simple set up and go run and hide as that thing is actively looking for you. or a hide and seek game in a large building with robots looking for you. no need for multiple levels, just give me a warehouse with a T-rex that's walking around looking to eat you.  in any case, I feel like the Hive is getting an edge because they are wilkling to pump out more experimental looking games.


Comments

  • RichooalRichooal Posts: 290
    Nexus 6
    I'm not a steam shopper, but from what I hear the main difference is that Oculus filter out most of the rubbish. This means Steam has it instead.
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  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 274 Poster of the Week
    Steam lets anyone who can pay a $100 fee sell their games. That's why they get basically every game or game like thing ever made offered there regardless of how good or terrible it is. The advantage is they have everything, the disadvantage is they have EVERYTHING. 

    As for smaller, more experimental titles, you just described the vast majority of VR only games currently out. Due to financial risk for large professional developers, we mostly get small indie titles. Indie titles tend to be more experimental but given that they are indie, they also tend to lack quality, content and depth due to limited budgets and often questionable technical skill of the developers.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 2,467 Poster of the Week
    edited September 12

    I also think game makers need to stop focusing on creating full games where its clear they are trying to fly before the platform has learned to walk...

    well i think you just summed up most of the crud on steam full stop (not just VR).

    now dont get me wrong, in principle i agree with you, and it is EXACTLY what devs were doing with the DK1 and DK2 in 2013 - 2015.

    the thing is, all this stuff was FREE..... and then once the devs had a handle on it, much of it was then made into a proper game and released for a fee.... for instance dreadhalls or crystal rift.

    The issue with steam, and this is in general and not just a VR problem, now what you get is that "experiemental inexperienced  stuff" which is cool when fan made and free,  but i must say, once i pay cash, even if its only 3 or 4 quid, there is a base line expectation of quality. In steam this level is often not there.... oculus home on the other hand had much less of the crap.

    sure some of the stuff is short, but that is ok if only paying a few quid, but its a complete game or experience and works properly

    This is one of the things which oculus have done which they get little credit for imo. because the DK1 and DK2 was released to everyone, even the budding bedroom devs, it meant they all got to get coding VR stuff really early doors, showcasing their stuff for free (there was heaps of stuff on oculus share back in the day), which meant that when the consumer version came out many were able to launch fairly high quality titles very quickly.
    OTOH early vive dev kits were more like hens teeth (but sure afaik they were free if you were deemed one of the special few), where as the rifts were sold at, or close to cost price.

    TLDR..... short unfinished experiences are fine if its a free demo, but i cant disagree with you more if you are talking about paid content.... If a dev is learning about VR and the stuff they are making is unfinished, or doesn’t work properly then it should not be charged for. This is the main reason why oculus home trumps steam for VR imo.
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  • flexy123flexy123 Posts: 721 Poster of the Week
    edited September 12
    Not sure if satire or not.

    The "plethora of cool interesting edgy indie type games" you mention BY AT LARGE are low-quality titles or asset flips. I am not saying you can find the one or the other innovative VR title on Steam, but 75% on there is all about quantity and very little quality.

    >>
    I also think game makers need to stop focusing on creating full games
    >>

    Uhm..absolutely not. As said, you can go on Steam and choose from 100s of your " edgy indy style" titles if this is your thing. What VR needs is not another 100s of low quality asset flips churned out in China, but actual AA titles. Not unfinished "early tech demos" where people even have the audacity to charge money for beta-testing them. (This is how this often looks to me on Steam)

    The Oculus store in one year I think has managed to set itself apart as the DE FACTO place for actual high quality VR titles, unlike Steam. And this is actually a good thing, not a bad thing! And Indy devs *can* actually put their titles on Oculus store as well. There is a section for these titles also on Oculus store.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,364 Valuable Player
    Not sure if serious lol
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  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,652 Poster of the Week
    I go onto YouTube or the steam store every now and then, and they always seem to have a plethora of cool interesting edgy indie type games and ideas I had no idea even existed and aren't in the oculus store and they seem to much cooler than the middle of the road mass audience fair we seem to be stuck with forever. I wonder if on the one hand if they are somehow getting exclusives faster for trying out before release or something.

    I also think game makers need to stop focusing on creating full games where its clear they are trying to fly before the platform has learned to walk.....and work more on games that are more simple VR set ups
    for instance....take that incredible T-rex demo where it walks up to you...well....why not have a simple game where its in a warehouse trying to get you? no full game just a simple set up and go run and hide as that thing is actively looking for you. or a hide and seek game in a large building with robots looking for you. no need for multiple levels, just give me a warehouse with a T-rex that's walking around looking to eat you.  in any case, I feel like the Hive is getting an edge because they are wilkling to pump out more experimental looking games.



    I like Steam, I've used them for years.  But the reason they have so much more is because they have no standards.  Anyone can post a game there.

    How much would you be willing to pay for a tech demo where you run and hide from a T-rex in a warehouse?  Devs want to make money also, that "experience" doesn't sound like anyone would "pay" for it so why waste the time making it?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,364 Valuable Player
    This has to be a troll thread, either that or the OP needs serious psychological help lmfao  :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 3,348 Power Poster
    Game wise, Vive is the cool hip kid hipster doofus, and the Oculus Rift is the old refined, sophisticated guy.
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  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 2,034
    Project 2501
    edited September 12

    snowdog said:
    This has to be a troll thread, either that or the OP needs serious psychological help lmfao  :D
    Don't you expect to sell your INDIE game on Oculus Home? Won't they just laugh and say we only have quality games here? So you either go to Steam or sell on your own site right? How can you critisice the OP for trolling and needing serious phycology if Steam is the very path youre heading towards? Unless your game is going to be AAA in quality and pass Oculus's high quality control??? I just don't understand your logic unless you're not actually serious about your game and you are a complete fantasist?
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 2,798
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  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 2,034
    Project 2501
    There are some amazing INDIE games on Steam, Onward probably being the most successfull.

    Steam is a hotbed of innovation you just have to ignore the chaff. Its similar to the cinema where 1 only out of 100 movies released is worth going to see. But if you only allowed showings of the biggest blockbusters you'd turn your back on some great budget movies that later fund bigger quality titles. Remember James Cameron and Pirahna?
  • FunkyLasagneFunkyLasagne Posts: 114
    Art3mis
    Atmos73 said:
    There are some amazing INDIE games on Steam, Onward probably being the most successfull.

    Steam is a hotbed of innovation you just have to ignore the chaff. Its similar to the cinema where 1 only out of 100 movies released is worth going to see. But if you only allowed showings of the biggest blockbusters you'd turn your back on some great budget movies that later fund bigger quality titles. Remember James Cameron and Pirahna?
    Everyone mention Onwards as a great indie game, but interestingly fail to mention any more, particular since as Onward was released over a year ago.  Having said that, of course Steam has some great games on it.  It is a near monopoly (something its fanboys fail to see), and with 1000 games released in a month some of them have to be good right?  Even for the Vive?
  • danknugzdanknugz Posts: 1,592
    3Jane
    the only game that i needed steam for was onward, there is a very high shovelware ratio in VR games on steam, id say at least 20:1
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,364 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:

    snowdog said:
    This has to be a troll thread, either that or the OP needs serious psychological help lmfao  :D
    Don't you expect to sell your INDIE game on Oculus Home? Won't they just laugh and say we only have quality games here? So you either go to Steam or sell on your own site right? How can you critisice the OP for trolling and needing serious phycology if Steam is the very path youre heading towards? Unless your game is going to be AAA in quality and pass Oculus's high quality control??? I just don't understand your logic unless you're not actually serious about your game and you are a complete fantasist?
    My game is going to be exclusive to the Oculus Store because once I get something playable I'm going to try and get funding from Facebook. I'm not going anywhere near Steam because it'll get lost in a sea of shite games.

    And no, it won't be AAA quality, but it should be good enough to get through the Oculus Submission process and end up in the Gallery Titles section.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 763 Poster of the Week
    why would I "wade through the chaff" when someone has done it for me? why would I spend the limited time I have for playing games testing all the shite that people keep spewing at Steam?

    I have a fair amount of skill at writing code, and would love to have time to write stuff for VR, but if I don't have time to write my own "crappy environment" where EVERYTHING gets to be the way I want it, why would I spend ages going through the Steam "list of shit" to find something to play? glad you have time for that, personally I'd rather play stuff that has a minimum of content and quality - if only someone was curating and winnowing for me..

    oh wait.
    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
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  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 274 Poster of the Week
    Atmos73 said:
    There are some amazing INDIE games on Steam, Onward probably being the most successfull.

    Steam is a hotbed of innovation you just have to ignore the chaff. Its similar to the cinema where 1 only out of 100 movies released is worth going to see. But if you only allowed showings of the biggest blockbusters you'd turn your back on some great budget movies that later fund bigger quality titles. Remember James Cameron and Pirahna?
    Everyone mention Onwards as a great indie game, but interestingly fail to mention any more, particular since as Onward was released over a year ago.  Having said that, of course Steam has some great games on it.  It is a near monopoly (something its fanboys fail to see), and with 1000 games released in a month some of them have to be good right?  Even for the Vive?

    A lot of it really depends on what you consider indie. Onward is clearly an indie title since it's done by just 1 guy I think. So no question about that one. But most of the quality titles are made by more than just one person, so the question then is "what is indie?" Is Asseto Corsa an indie game? Dead Effect 2 VR? What about IL2:BoS? How about Robo Recall? I don't think there is a clear line as to what constitutes indie, so it makes more sense to simply talk about good games vs not so good ones. Incidentally, all of those except Robo Recall I listed are good games not available on OH. Some other good ones are: DCS, Redout, Descent, Overload (very early access), War Thunder and likely many others that are good but aren't game types that interest me.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,999 Power Poster
    edited September 13

    game wise,is the VIVE the cool hip kid and the oculus the old guy?

    I go onto YouTube or the steam store every now and then

    aaa....


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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,364 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    There are some amazing INDIE games on Steam, Onward probably being the most successfull.

    Steam is a hotbed of innovation you just have to ignore the chaff. Its similar to the cinema where 1 only out of 100 movies released is worth going to see. But if you only allowed showings of the biggest blockbusters you'd turn your back on some great budget movies that later fund bigger quality titles. Remember James Cameron and Pirahna?
    Everyone mention Onwards as a great indie game, but interestingly fail to mention any more, particular since as Onward was released over a year ago.  Having said that, of course Steam has some great games on it.  It is a near monopoly (something its fanboys fail to see), and with 1000 games released in a month some of them have to be good right?  Even for the Vive?

    A lot of it really depends on what you consider indie. Onward is clearly an indie title since it's done by just 1 guy I think. So no question about that one. But most of the quality titles are made by more than just one person, so the question then is "what is indie?" Is Asseto Corsa an indie game? Dead Effect 2 VR? What about IL2:BoS? How about Robo Recall? I don't think there is a clear line as to what constitutes indie, so it makes more sense to simply talk about good games vs not so good ones. Incidentally, all of those except Robo Recall I listed are good games not available on OH. Some other good ones are: DCS, Redout, Descent, Overload (very early access), War Thunder and likely many others that are good but aren't game types that interest me.
    Whether the developer is an indie developer or not has NOTHING to do with the amount of employees it has. This is a common misconception, particularly from people that don't work or have never worked in the video game industry. It's all in the name. Indie is short for INDEPENDENT. An indie developer is ANY developer that isn't owned or part-owned by a publisher and publishes their games themselves. Epic are an indie developer. Crytek are an indie developer. Platinum Games are an indie developer. All of those games you've listed above are indie games made by indie developers.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 2,034
    Project 2501
    edited September 13
    Didn't Crytek and Epic get millions from Oculus to go exclusive with The Climb and Robo Recall? You surely can't say they are Indie titles.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,364 Valuable Player
    Yes they did. And they can accept those offers BECAUSE they are indie developers working on a contract. If they weren't indie developers deals like that WOULDN'T be possible.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 2,034
    Project 2501

    Wiki definition of Indie


    • Indie game, any game (video, board-based, or otherwise) published or produced outside mainstream means
    So Robo Recall The Climb Lone Echo were all funded by Oculus which makes them not Indie.

    Oculus paid these Devs to produce games for them.

    Wki definition of a Publisher

    They often finance the development, sometimes by paying a video game developer (the publisher calls this external development) and sometimes by paying an internal staff of developers called a studio. The large video game publishers also distribute the games they publish, while some smaller publishers instead hire distribution companies (or larger video game publishers) to distribute the games they publish. Other functions usually performed by the publisher include deciding on and paying for any licenses used by the game; paying for localization; layout, printing, and possibly the writing of the user manual; and the creation of graphic design elements such as the box design.

    So Oculus acted as Publisher by funding and distributing the games on OH.


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,999 Power Poster
    edited September 13
    Atmos73 said:

    • Indie game, any game (video, board-based, or otherwise) published or produced outside mainstream means
    So Robo Recall The Climb Lone Echo were all funded by Oculus which makes them not Indie.

    Wrong.

    You don't know what "mainstream means" means :D

    But since you're all about definitions today, here's one:
    Definition of Loser:

    1) a person or thing that loses especially consistently. When a Vivarian argues in favor of the Vive they end up looking like a loser.

    2) a person who is incompetent or unable to succeed. HTC has been forced to sell its company after proving to be a loser in both the Mobile and Virtual Reality markets.


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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,364 Valuable Player
    Ah yes, because Wiki is a great source of accurate information.

    Ask anyone that works in or has worked in the actual industry we're talking about and they'll tell you the exact same thing.

    It doesn't matter if Oculus did the publishing or if Crytek/Epic published it themselves. They're independent developers and take on CONTRACTS to do work. They're not owned or part-owned by Oculus or any other publisher. It really isn't rocket surgery.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 7,999 Power Poster
    Sorry. meant it as a Vive joke/jab.  Not trying to call Atmos an actual loser. My bad  o:)
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  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 23,024 Oculus Staff
    edited September 13
    I understand, but it's implied. Thanks.
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 2,467 Poster of the Week
    edited September 14
    snowdog said:
    Ah yes, because Wiki is a great source of accurate information.
    to be fair... I use it all the time... i even (successfully pulled it off as well) planned a conference talk with much of the scientific info ripped from the wiki.

    thank fcuk a wiki vandal had not messed up the facts as i was writing my talk, it could have been embarrassing.

    I find it a good source of info when you want stuff "simplified" so that jow average on the street can understand stuff which may be fairly complex.
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,337 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    Sorry.
    You got told off :p
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