Improving the "permanent" Guardian Wall : Dot Mode — Oculus
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Improving the "permanent" Guardian Wall : Dot Mode

HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,275
3Jane
edited October 2017 in General
The permanent form of the Guardian Wall can only be switched on, or switched off :
-  Switched off makes you worry too much about hitting your furniture, and so limits the amount and speed of movements you dare to make in VR (or you don't worry enough about hitting your invisible limits and you do move fast enough to manage to crash your hand into something).
- Switched on it is highly intrusive and immersion breaking, which is why I'm guessing ~100% users leave it switched off.

My Feature Request : Add a "dot mode" to the Guardian wall, that transforms the permanent highly intrusive full laser cage into a significantly less intrusive permanent bunch of dots, which can be left switched on using during gameplay without getting in your way. This would be a specially useful feature for intense action room scale applications like "Echo Arena", so you can tell at all times how far you are from your closest wall, without ruining the immersion.

This small change would radically change the way I dare move in VR : I find the ground floor Guardian marking to be too low to be useful, so I always play in slow motion instead, and find fast action (throwing and thrusting) games like Echo Arena too dangerous to be played at all (specially for my friends, and my monitor in front of them...).

Of course, when the user does get close to the Guardian Wall limits, it then lightens up under it's current highly intrusive full laser cage form as usual.

Improving the "permanent" Guardian Wall : Dot Mode 23 votes

Useful
73% 17 votes
don't care
17% 4 votes
useless
8% 2 votes

Comments

  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 1,946 Valuable Player
    edited October 2017
    I have mine off,
    falling over my sofa being chased by zombies in Arizona Sunshine just adds to the exp :)

    This are good ideas though, it is an area that can be tweaked in a firmware update for sure. I think what we have as a home and VR setup will pale to what it is in 2 years or less. Just look how steam was to now
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,275
    3Jane
    Well of course you and ~everyone else has it switched off, because of how poorly designed it is : That's the whole point of this Feature Request :)

    And maybe Oculus VR will start caring about starting to fix that (and with something else then just a warning text that you shouldn't be switching it off), when someone ends up falling out of a window instead of just over their sofa.
  • Protocol7Protocol7 Posts: 276
    Nexus 6
    edited October 2017
    What do you mean by permanent wall? I only have the wall that appears when you get close, how do you get a permanent one? It might be helpful for me.
  • Rob_In_PhoenixRob_In_Phoenix Posts: 294
    Nexus 6
    I wouldn't mind a more subtle form of guardian.  As far as breaking immersion, the impact guardian has is far less than the impact of slamming your hand or head into the wall.
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,275
    3Jane
    Protocol7 said:
    What do you mean by permanent wall? I only have the wall that appears when you get close, how do you get a permanent one? It might be helpful for me.
    If your VR space is too narrow in either width or depth the guardian wall stays lit permanently, at which point you're better off switching it off (or finding a way to trick it during the setup process, such as scanning with the Touch controller over your furniture).

    So the idea is to provide a less intrusive Guardian Wall, which you can leave permanently switched on in ~all applications.

    If you want a permanent guardian wall, just define your VR space as much smaller then it is during setup, but odds are you'll find out that don't want one, at least not that one.
  • 74Loki74Loki Posts: 31
    Brain Burst
    I personally don't see anything wrong with the current system. I have a fairly large play space though (15'X15') so I rarely ever see mine. When I have gotten too close I found the cage design helpful in not bashing my hand into some equipment or the wall. I'm not sure how useful making it less visible would be in all honesty. The whole point of it is to become visible when you are getting close to something you don't want to hit.
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,275
    3Jane
    I wouldn't mind a more subtle form of guardian.  As far as breaking immersion, the impact guardian has is far less than the impact of slamming your hand or head into the wall.
    Well that's my other issue : If you perform a fast hand movement, like punching, throwing a grenade or thrusting a sword, the Guardian Wall alert will probably happen too late (even if it takes into account the speed of your hand movement instead of just the position of your hand, and I don't think it takes the speed of your hand into account anyway).

    But if there was an alternate form to the Guardian Wall, such as a dot grid, which you could switch on permanently, then you would know beforehand where and when you shouldn't be throwing your hand forward, and would no longer have to rely on your ability to stop your quick hand thrust midway.
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 1,068
    Wintermute
    chose "don't care" as my play space is large enough that I have to step 2 paces in any direction to trigger the guardian, so only see it when I step to my desk to put it down. would be a useful option for people who have a small space though
    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • Rob_In_PhoenixRob_In_Phoenix Posts: 294
    Nexus 6
    Cyril said:
    I wouldn't mind a more subtle form of guardian.  As far as breaking immersion, the impact guardian has is far less than the impact of slamming your hand or head into the wall.
    Well that's my other issue : If you perform a fast hand movement, like punching, throwing a grenade or thrusting a sword, the Guardian Wall alert will probably happen too late (even if it takes into account the speed of your hand movement instead of just the position of your hand, and I don't think it takes the speed of your hand into account anyway).

    But if there was an alternate form to the Guardian Wall, such as a dot grid, which you could switch on permanently, then you would know beforehand where and when you shouldn't be throwing your hand forward, and would no longer have to rely on your ability to stop your quick hand thrust midway.
    So that's probably the next iteration of guardian.  However I don't want guardian to be visible at all times, even when subtle.  I would like a guardian system that puts up a faint boundary and grows more solid as you get closer to it. 

    Of course you can always draw your boundary inside the actual location of your walls to help this issue.


  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,275
    3Jane
    74Loki said:
    I personally don't see anything wrong with the current system.
    When you throw your arm forward in an intensive VR game, you don't know how close you are to your walls, and even if the Guardian Wall triggers it might trigger too late to stop your arm from crashing into something, because the faster you move, the less time you have to react to the Guardian Wall warning.

    So this isn't about changing the current Guardian Wall appearance : It stays the same.

    It's about adding the option to switch on a permanent but subtle reminder, such as a dot grid , of where your VR space ends, so you know if you can safely throw a fast swing, or make a quick step, without triggering a sudden Guardian Wall halfway through.

    Despite the Guardian wall, CV1 users have already bashed their hands even even their headset into various things, and destroyed various things such as TVs... and again that's because the faster you move, the less time you have to react to a Guardian Wall alert. Having the option to switch on some dot grid, on top of the default Guardian wall, would have done a better job preventing those accidents, by providing a subtle reminder of how close those users where to their border BEFORE they decided to trigger a fast body movement straight through it.

    And you won't see anything wrong with the current system, until it's your turn to use a VR game that's both intensive and immersive enough to have you crash straight through your Guardian Wall before you know it : You can try your (bad) luck with VR titles that encourage you to thrust your hand forward while moving around your VR space, such as Valkyrie Blade.
  • Protocol7Protocol7 Posts: 276
    Nexus 6
    Cyril said:
    When you throw your arm forward in an intensive VR game, you don't know how close you are to your walls, and even if the Guardian Wall triggers it might trigger too late to stop your arm from crashing into something, because the faster you move, the less time you have to react to the Guardian Wall warning.
    Yes this has happened to me, particularly when throwing something in VR. Mid-throw the Guardian appears but my hand is already crashing into the wall.
  • Roming22Roming22 Posts: 141
    Art3mis
    As I said on another thread, being able to choose the color and transparency of the GW would definitely enhance the UX for people who might need it because of space issues without impacting users with large play space.

    Having the option to use dot would be nice as well, but I believe it would break immersion a bit too much if it stayed that bright blue.
  • GouyouGouyou Posts: 3
    NerveGear
    If I could activate in the guardian system settings some kind of ON / OFF  switch to only activate the floor guideline, (not the wall), I believe  that would be awesome and help me much. Maybe that screenshot will help understand what I mean by that :  https://www.screencast.com/t/QB7EmZ2vA
    So the wall would still only appear when you get close to them, but the floor area would be visible with a simple line.
  • danknugzdanknugz Posts: 1,987
    3Jane
    i would prefer the ability to change the threshold which controls the distance from the boundary you have to be in order for it to light up and become visible.

    i have smacked my hand into the walll countless times when trying to throw a grenade or a flashbang, because my body was far enough away from the wall so as not to activate the guardiab system, and of course it shows up a fraction of a second as my hand is 2 inches away from the wall and already moving. this is completely useless.

    even better would be the ability to remap the home button (which I never use) or any of the other buttons to temporarily light up the guardian so you know where you are without having to guess or try and peek through the nose gap.

    this is very basic shit and kind of ghetto that they havent fixed this by now
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on forums?
  • danknugzdanknugz Posts: 1,987
    3Jane
    Protocol7 said:
    Cyril said:
    When you throw your arm forward in an intensive VR game, you don't know how close you are to your walls, and even if the Guardian Wall triggers it might trigger too late to stop your arm from crashing into something, because the faster you move, the less time you have to react to the Guardian Wall warning.
    Yes this has happened to me, particularly when throwing something in VR. Mid-throw the Guardian appears but my hand is already crashing into the wall.
    exactly, this is hilarious dumb and sad at thw same time
    A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
    Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
    A: Top-posting.
    Q: What is the most annoying thing on forums?
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,636
    3Jane
    I got enough room to move only I find all I ever do is turn around as I'm shit scared in panic even to move when under fire or getting eaten by zombies!
  • jonjon Posts: 297
    Nexus 6

    Cyril said:
    ...
    My Feature Request : Add a "dot mode" to the Guardian wall, that transforms the permanent highly intrusive full laser cage into a significantly less intrusive permanent bunch of dots, which can be left switched on using during gameplay without getting in your way. This would be a specially useful feature for intense action room scale applications like "Echo Arena", so you can tell at all times how far you are from your closest wall, without ruining the immersion.
    ...

     I'd personally prefer a quick A/B toggle so I can have different settings for seated play and room scale ready to go.

    My room scale setup is bounded such that I won't accidentally 'VR punch' my desk or monitor.  I currently end up turning that off when seated, but would still prefer something that could visually fence off my monitor while perhaps being a bit less aggressive on fade in.
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 1,837 Valuable Player
    Excellent idea. 
  • DoctoriDoctori Posts: 17
    NerveGear
    I can't believe we still can't force the boundary on like on steam. It's reason I use steam all the time, its a must for me to set it to soft color / line but keep on, I can play with confidence. You need to turn wall off, just use floor. I'm shocked still dont have guardian control... Its forcing me use my vive way more. Is there an possibly way to use the steam chapperone when playing space junkies beta? It seems use oculus SDK / guardian I think when I use rift.
  • DoctoriDoctori Posts: 17
    NerveGear
    I bought it on steam as well, started with Vive, but those pads don't work, need the touch controller for sure.
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