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HTC follows Oculus along the Stand-Alone VR Trail: Vive Focus & Vive Wave

ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster
edited November 14 in General

HTC has finally come out with their Official Stand Alone VR Headset called, Vive Focus. And it will run on a Platform called, Vive Wave (Powered By), and integrate with Software from Vive Port.

Over 40 pieces have been developed as part of Vive Wave for Vive Focus. As was announced in September, the Focus will host Viveport content in China, and will run on the newly announced Vive Wave.

Vive Wave marks a push by HTC to expand the scope of the Vive platform and unite its community.

According to the official website, Vive Wave “an open platform and toolset that will enable easy Mobile VR content development and high-performance device optimization for third party partners. The VIVE Wave VR SDK offers an open interface enabling interoperability between numerous mobile VR headsets and accessories, supporting mainstream game engines. This allows players with different VR devices an easy access to your extraordinary content.





I think it's a smart move by HTC to abandon Room-Scale in favor of World Scale:
Vive Focus takes us from room-scale to “world-scale” tracking. Users don’t need any lighthouses or sensors to move about and operate in the virtual worlds of Vive Focus.


In fact, I called it back in July 2016:
Zenbane said:
What I find fascinating about common pro-room-scale constructs is the lack of emphasis on the need for "Wireless VR." Until you can walk around anywhere in the world (not just your home), then room-scale is little more than adding a few more of these in your home...




https://forums.oculus.com/community/discussion/comment/414072/#Comment_414072


First impressions:
This is a Stand Alone headset similar to the Oculus Santa Cruz, only without all the great stuff like quality hand-controllers. Instead it gets a mobile VR "remote" similar to Samsung GearVR and Oculus GO. I wonder if Vive owners will finally realize that a remote is a game controller with this release? lol

Full Article:
https://vrscout.com/news/htc-vive-focus-standalone/

Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

Comments

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster

    ... and uh, this may not be coming to the U.S. at all... China only??

    HTC says it will be focusing its resources on a Qualcomm-powered standalone for the China market, which it is calling the Vive Focus. Pricing has not been disclosed.
    https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/13/htc-cancels-u-s-release-of-wireless-vr-headset-built-on-google-tech/

    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,369 Valuable Player
    Yup. And as I mentioned in the thread in the Oculus Reddit it's going to sell like crap because content is king. It won't be binary compatible with the GearVR.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster

    I like that they chose "Wave" as their brand. Lots of good one-liners:

    HTC waves goodbye to high-end VR.

    Vivarians wave goodbye to a U.S. product.

    The Vive waves goodbye to hand-controllers, says Hello to remote controls.
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 2,630 Valuable Player
    edited November 14
    Interesting how this market ("sector" - Kevin) is developing. Is it a case of looking at the success of the Gear VR and attempting to go one step further? It's a shame for enthusiasts though - like the Samsung Odyssey - these are restricted to specific markets, but I guess it highlights the risk factor of releasing a HMD in what is an ever growing playground. Playing it safe by releasing closer to home or in more viable markets is a testament of how much a risky business VR is at this stage.

    It's also another excuse for Zelator to maniacally laugh in the face of HTC. :p


    System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster
    edited November 14
    Playing it safe by releasing closer to home

    It's a by-the-book strategy; stick to what you know best:



    Shadowmask72 said:
    It's also another excuse for Zelator to maniacally laugh in the face of HTC. :p



    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 2,630 Valuable Player
    edited November 14
    If anyone is interested here's the link to the official page.  Those people don't look very Chinese to me which suggests a Euro release then at some point.

    https://www.vive.com/eu/product/standalone/

    Edit. Isn't this what we all dreamed of though way back when but with the increased res and fov? Obviously these wireless options right now aren't going to compete with the high end PC tethered experiences, but at least some progress is being made in this area so it's all good right?


    System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster
    Isn't this what we all dreamed of though way back when but with the increased res and fov? Obviously these wireless options right now aren't going to compete with the high end PC tethered experiences, but at least some progress is being made in this area so it's all good right?




    When Facebook announces a tetherless product, the outcry is that "Oculus is abandoning PCVR." When HTC announces a tetherless product, the response is that this is "good for VR."

    My only interest is to put a spotlight on the futile double-standard.
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • kojackkojack Posts: 3,659 Volunteer Moderator

    It's also another excuse for Zelator to maniacally laugh in the face of HTC. :p


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster
    ^^

    HAH! Love it
    <3
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 2,819
    Wintermute
    Interesting how this market ("sector" - Kevin) is developing. Is it a case of looking at the success of the Gear VR and attempting to go one step further? It's a shame for enthusiasts though - like the Samsung Odyssey - these are restricted to specific markets, but I guess it highlights the risk factor of releasing a HMD in what is an ever growing playground. Playing it safe by releasing closer to home or in more viable markets is a testament of how much a risky business VR is at this stage.

    It's also another excuse for Zelator to maniacally laugh in the face of HTC. :p

    Yep, the sector of the market is developing in a unique manner - though as has been stated this head-mounted display may only be sold in China for the beginning of its cycle.

    I am interested that some call this the "abandonment" of room-scale - but when people suggested that Oculus GO was the abandonment of High-end, the statement it was attacked. The same is true here - this is just another revenue stream; another sector they can invest in to hopefully generate a market.

    I am curious how much of this investment will be supported by the Google investment, and if the system is eventually forced down a Daydream route! 
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 2,630 Valuable Player
    Ahh Evil Dead 2 my favourite movie of all time.  

    "Groovy".

     <3 

    @Kojack :o


    System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 2,630 Valuable Player
    Yes but I think we can mostly agree that if Oculus releases an untethered HMD and it performs worse than the current rift we can all cry like babies because being tethered isn't so bad especially if you are playing seated/standing experiences.

    Zenbane said:
    When Facebook announces a wire-free product, the outcry is that "Oculus is abandoning PCVR." When HTC announces a wire-free product, the response is that  "HTC never really had a firm grip on PCVR in the first place."

    My only interest is to put a spotlight on the futile perspective that this is all new to Oculus when in fact they have been instrumental with the Gear VR (the first wire-free HMD not including Cardboard) and its market lead out of all the HMDs.
     B) 


    System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 2,819
    Wintermute
    edited November 14
    Yes but I think we can mostly agree that if Oculus releases an untethered HMD and it performs worse than the current rift we can all cry like babies because being tethered isn't so bad especially if you are playing seated/standing experiences.
    ....

    That's just the point, they did not just "announces a wire-free product" - they announced a product that has lower performance than the original release hoping that its wire-free and price point will be accepted, even with lower performance.

    If it was only about wire-free then they would have been more receptive to the TPCast approach last year to offer developing their system first on Rift!

    Standalone sits between Rift and Go for a reason - the reason is that Facebook VR looked at the mess they inherited from the previous management and decided that that business model needed to be addressed - in doing that they created a middle ground, and at the same time made a decision to push any new iterations of the CV1 line out till after SC launches (expected 2019).

    The question is, can the High-end market wait that long for a CV2, or will another pretender to the throne come along and eat their lunch?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 2,630 Valuable Player
    I believe brand loyalty and past experiences with said brand count for a lot according to many posters on this board and elsewhere. It happens everywhere even outside of the hardware sector (there's that word again Kevin). I return to McDonalds because I know I'll get a cardboard tasting squidgy burger without fail anywhere in the world rather than try an alternative like Flipping Burger Joint, or Pick Yer Burgers (which might offer a superior tasting experience). I would assume then, many folks here would gladly wait for the next PC HMD from Oculus (regardless of how long it takes) rather than succumb to another brand.  Look at how dismissive some people are of Pimax as a company due to it being an untested entity despite already releasing the Pimax 4K. It appears some people over-blow anything negative and use that to reinforce their affinity with a brand that is tried and trusted. This is sensible and human nature, but not always the right course of action especially if you want to rest on the cusp of potential cutting edge.

    Horses for courses I think, or is that Horses for burgers?

     :p 


    System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster
    Yes but I think we can mostly agree that if Oculus releases an untethered HMD and it performs worse than the current rift we can all cry like babies because being tethered isn't so bad especially if you are playing seated/standing experiences.

    If it was worse than the Rift it wouldn't be released until that was remedied. Assuming that by "worse" you are referring to something that is unusable. If not, then define "worse." Afterall, Mobile VR like the GearVR performs "worse than the Rift" but no one really cries like babies. And it is selling more than every other VR unit.
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,369 Valuable Player
    If anyone is interested here's the link to the official page.  Those people don't look very Chinese to me which suggests a Euro release then at some point.

    https://www.vive.com/eu/product/standalone/

    Edit. Isn't this what we all dreamed of though way back when but with the increased res and fov? Obviously these wireless options right now aren't going to compete with the high end PC tethered experiences, but at least some progress is being made in this area so it's all good right?

    Yup. Both Oculus and HTC are launching these headsets to drive VR adoption to mainstream customers. I've mentioned it a few times before, there are 3 demographics that need to adopt VR before VR goes mainstream: enthusiast gamers, mainstream gamers and mainstream consumers.

    Each of these demographics have a sweet spot with regards to price. We're seeing widespread enthusiast gamer adoption now that the retail price has hit the sweet spot of $400, we'll start to see mainstream gamer adoption happening around this time next year when the price of the Rift and Touch comes down to $300 and the mainstream consumer adoption will start when the Oculus Go launches at $200 but won't really start to pick up until that retail price is halved.

    We're also going to see mainstream consumer adoption pick up when sports and films start to factor in too but that's at least a few years away from happening.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster
    Shadowmask72 said:
    Look at how dismissive some people are of Pimax as a company due to it being an untested entity despite already releasing the Pimax 4K. It appears some people over-blow anything negative and use that to reinforce their affinity with a brand that is tried and trusted. This is sensible and human nature, but not always the right course of action especially if you want to rest on the cusp of potential cutting edge.

    That might be something you are just telling yourself to make you feel better about the money you spent to back the Pimax 8K; which is also human nature but not always the right course of action especially in a world where honest advertising is needed and Kickstarter scams are in high order.

    I do not criticize the Pimax products due to some brand loyalty at all, I criticize it for the same reasons that people have spent 2 years criticizing Oculus and Facebook: because it is good for VR (allegedly).

    The same excuses people make to defend anti-Oculus rhetoric suddenly disappear when the target of ridicule shifts.
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 2,630 Valuable Player
    edited November 14
    To make myself clear, I meant worse as in not as good in terms of performance/visuals compared to a desktop PC with top end GPU, specifically talking about standalone HMDs here vs what people already have Rift/Vive etc.  If wire-free is important to some people then sure it's a no-brainer but it won't be on par with the tethered experience imo. I am assuming most people on this forum are actually waiting for the CV 2 to improve on what the CV1 offers, any standalone HMDs released at present aren't going to offer that. A wire-free solution could do in the future, but when that releases what of the advances made in tethered technology? My  crying comment referred to people here looking for those improvements from Oculus which they are likely not going to get from what's coming next from Oculus or anyone else making a standalone HMD. It's going to take a while for standalone to catch up with what PC VR can offer.

    As for people being dismissive, there are a number who feel this way towards Pimax not just on these forums. As for criticism based on brand loyalty, sure that might not be your angle Zen but I am certain it's the basis for others, not just here. 
    I have no regret with my gamble/investment in Pimax or for them to deliver, however the only doubt I do have is on the final quality and how that presents itself.  Yes you're right, the advertising has been a little misleading but the advertising hasn't drawn me in rather, the testimonials from people who have provided hands-on. You are also correct that a high amount of caution is sensible when handing over money to Kickstarter projects. However, I can afford to take the risk at this time so not a big deal for me. As I said, the biggest danger is the possibility of Pimax fulfilling the Kickstarter orders but the end product being a pile of crap. Anyway this thread isn't about Pimax so my mistake for bringing it up in this thread.

    Edit: just to add and to reinforce my point about brand loyalty. Look at how some people go on with regards to PC, PS4, XBox and Nintendo as gaming platforms. Brand loyalty wars are very real.



    System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 3,324 Valuable Player
    edited November 14
    Some people are getting confused.  I want the Oculus Go because it will be the best mobile HMD - it will be different to the CV1.  Not worse, different.  It will free me just like the Gear VR did - i'll sit where i want, i'll spin around in my chair as much as i want and i'll take it to work and wherever else i want to.

    I'm hoping it will blow the Gear VR HMDs out of the water due to user experience - i expect the games and apps will be very similar (there was no dedicated controller when i used the Gear VR).

    Not too keen on the styling of this Vive HMD.

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,369 Valuable Player
    The best thing is that the Oculus Go is going to have a ridiculous amount of content for it on day one when it launches due to it being binary compatible with the GearVR. I suspect that you'll have to buy your GearVR games again from the Oculus Go Store though despite this compatibility. It all depends on the individual developers I think, although that does remain to be seen. The binary compatibility means that these developers can just upload their old games to the new Store without recompiling it. I guess it depends on how the account system works when it's in place.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 3,324 Valuable Player
    And half of it i have, stored in my library!  Can't wait to play them all again!!   B)
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 2,630 Valuable Player
    Perhaps I am speaking too much from my own perspective then when faced with a cool seated/standing experience complete with touch controllers the Rift offers now vs Oculus Go which as Hiro points out has more far reaching possibilities the fact that it's mobile. The points you raise aren't a factor for me at present but I guess could be as I did showcase my Gear VR to some people outside of the home. But since the Rift arrived the Gear VR has not been used.


    System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,369 Valuable Player
    I'm living in Beirut (AKA Tottenham) anyone taking one of these things outside is asking for trouble lol :o

    And if I move away from here I'll end up with 'N'am flashbacks - Totten'am lmfao :p

    As I mentioned above, these headsets aren't aimed at us so only a minority of us enthusiast gamers will end up getting one. These are aimed at mainstream consumers such as general families that can't afford to get a high-end device or those of us enthusiast gamers that have kids to buy them for so that the little brats don't use their Rifts lol :D :D :D

    I'm surprised that Oculus haven't had this releasing before Christmas tbh.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster
    You are also correct that a high amount of caution is sensible when handing over money to Kickstarter projects. However, I can afford to take the risk at this time so not a big deal for me.

    Yeah I do remember your first post in the Pimax Megathread. You gave yourself an "out" right at the start by letting everyone know that this is coming from extra cash you set aside. Smart move!
    ;)


    Anyway this thread isn't about Pimax so my mistake for bringing it up in this thread.


    No worries, I love a nice hawt derail. We can talk freely here to preserve the Pimax Megathread, baby.


     Look at how some people go on with regards to PC, PS4, XBox and Nintendo as gaming platforms. Brand loyalty wars are very real.


    I agree, but context is incredibly important. We cannot pick and choose when to label something "brand loyalty." We need to see the overall tone and more importantly, the contributors of conversation before passing judgement. We have people on this forum who Support Pimax while also wielding an impressive post History full of anti-Oculus and anti-Facebook rhetoric. That is more a culprit than anything else. In contrast, I have yet to see any Rift owners making arguments purely on brand loyalty - an assessment I make based on their post History.

    And in your case... we do have that one epic thread you made when you sold your HTC Vive. You remember, right? Context is important; and you are someone who doesn't mind investing in a product for funsies only to dump it later. I can respect that, but I can't "pretend" that Pimax 8K Supporters are actually funding innovation. I simply do not see it that way.

    If someone wants to talk innovation, then hell yeah, let's do it. Widening a screen and cleaning up a picture slightly aint it.
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 3,324 Valuable Player
    edited November 15
    But the only reason he sold the Vive was because it was clunky and had a crap library of games.  There should be none of those problems 

    I mean, with PiPlay

    Errm well what i’m saying is because of the 8k’s sleek design

    oh shit!
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 2,630 Valuable Player
    edited November 15
    I would prefer to use the word progression rather than innovation with Pimax 8K. ;)

    @Snowdog, those Tottenham jokes you geezer. And laughing at one's own jokes. Are you sure you're not my Dad in disguise? Nah, as long as you're well entertained. Carry on fella.


    System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,369 Valuable Player
    snowdog: I AM your Father!

    Shadowmask72: Nooooooooooooooooo!!!

     B) 


    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kojackkojack Posts: 3,659 Volunteer Moderator
    The interesting thing is that the Vive Focus isn't Daydream or SteamVR compatible.
    At least the Oculus GO has the entire GearVR library sitting there ready for it.


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 8,025 Power Poster
    So Vive Focus is "focused" on a Walled Garden approach? They must see a successful business model in doing so. I wonder where that got that idea from, hmm.

    If only there was a GIF to express HTC's gradual realization that having a proprietary software platform (ala Battle.net) is a killer strategy...



    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,369 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    The interesting thing is that the Vive Focus isn't Daydream or SteamVR compatible.
    At least the Oculus GO has the entire GearVR library sitting there ready for it.



    Yup, whenever you buy an Oculus product it seems like you're guaranteed plenty of good quality content. And I can't see this changing for the CV2 in a couple of years. The launch and launch window software that was available in the Oculus Store was one of the many reasons why I got a Rift instead of a Vive.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
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