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Magic Leap Lightwear unveiled

kojackkojack Posts: 4,247 Volunteer Moderator
https://www.roadtovr.com/magic-leap-finally-unveils-first-ar-product-magic-leap-one-shipping-starts-2018/?platform=hootsuite

The Lightwear from Magic Leap has been shown. Well, shown as renders composited on photos of a person, but I guess it's better than we've had so far. :)
It uses a belt mounted computer and has a 6dof controller.







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Comments

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,695
    Project 2501
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,695
    Project 2501
    edited December 2017
    The best part of this news, is that those held under the NDA can now speak freely, especially about their criticism of the software, and the failure of the system to achieve certain elements that had been promised from the start.

     
    "It's not easy being green" - but seriously, I have to agree with one comment that can now be shared about the FOV of the system - even though the HoloLens has an appalling FOV your real world vision is not blocked by the frames of a goggle-like device. All those that used the ML DK1 prototype stated that the restrictions on the FOV was a major issue - but had been gagged from saying this because of the draconian NDA (used more as a gag than a protective agreement).



    Rolling Stone’s Brian Crecente did test out the headset before the announcement and estimated “the viewing space is about the size of a VHS tape held in front of you with your arms half extended.

    But I will say that it is great the ML has finally revealed their position - this will allow us now to have a serious discussion about the platform with less hype from the executive team, and will make it easier to see its benefits against what the HoloLens II will be showing in February.

    Edit - The competition 

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,695
    Project 2501
    Oh and one last thing... with the need now for a hand controller, you wont be able to do this:


    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,285 Valuable Player
    Virtual Reality - a damn sight more real than the Hololens and Magic Leap.
  • nosys70nosys70 Posts: 456
    Art3mis
    edited December 2017
    seems there is a hell lot of cameras on this device.
    They should do a joint venture with CastAR (they still try selling some technology after bankruptcy)

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 11,097 Power Poster
    kojack said:
    https://www.roadtovr.com/magic-leap-finally-unveils-first-ar-product-magic-leap-one-shipping-starts-2018/?platform=hootsuite

    The Lightwear from Magic Leap has been shown. Well, shown as renders composited on photos of a person, but I guess it's better than we've had so far. :)


    I've seen this referred to as "Mixed Reality" in a few places. I know @snowdog loves that lol

    In unrelated news, when I first saw this thread title I thought it read, "Magic Underwear unveiled"
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  • PabbertPabbert Posts: 193
    Art3mis
    Mmmmmmmmm that looks a bit WANK!
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,247 Volunteer Moderator
    Zenbane said:
    kojack said:
    https://www.roadtovr.com/magic-leap-finally-unveils-first-ar-product-magic-leap-one-shipping-starts-2018/?platform=hootsuite

    The Lightwear from Magic Leap has been shown. Well, shown as renders composited on photos of a person, but I guess it's better than we've had so far. :)


    I've seen this referred to as "Mixed Reality" in a few places. I know @snowdog loves that lol

    In unrelated news, when I first saw this thread title I thought it read, "Magic Underwear unveiled"
    There's a third meaning of mixed reality now, for fake advertising photos?

    Hehe, even the final image on the magic leap website, the one with the parts sitting on a table, is made from 8 layers of images. Even the shadows are stored as separate images that are overlaid with html divs. Couldn't they just store it as one fake image instead of 8?
    :)
    kevinw729 said:
    Oh and one last thing... with the need now for a hand controller, you wont be able to do this:


    If their sensor suite works the way they describe (3d mapping of the environment, like a hololens, and persistent object location), that should still be achievable-ish. It's just depth occlusion of a rendered model, it doesn't need to understand what hands are for that to work.


    What I want to know is what are the 8 sensor-like parts on the front. Is it using structured IR (kinect 1), time of flight (kinect 2), stereo visible spectrum (zed camera) or something else?
    How are they tracking the controller with 6dof when it's design makes it mostly occluded from the headset by the users hand?


    From their website:
    Our integrated processing unit delivers high-fidelity, gaming-quality graphics, with the power and performance of a laptop computer. From editing an elaborate 3D model to playing a first-person shooter in your living room, Magic Leap One produces lightfield objects in intricate detail, all on a highly responsive, self-contained wearable.

    It's going to be interesting to see the specs for that.



  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 966
    3Jane
    Would the design not change later on, considering they are marketing this currently as a "creator edition"? I would assume the consumer version for the avarage user would look differently.. and perhaps the final version of the creator one as well?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,458 Power Poster
    Meh! AR is for wimps. VR is what real men (and women!) use. B)

    Might be fine for various forms of training in the not-too-distant future but it's going to be useless for gaming compared to VR.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,247 Volunteer Moderator
    snowdog said:
    Meh! AR is for wimps. VR is what real men (and women!) use. B)

    Might be fine for various forms of training in the not-too-distant future but it's going to be useless for gaming compared to VR.
    I'm waiting for AR that's in a form factor no bigger than my oakley flak 2 xl's.

    I'm still sad CastAR went down, it was an interesting idea.

  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 239
    Art3mis
    overlay a variable sized image that consists of a 2d image held inside a 3d fisheye frame, like the virtual desktop looks like when it shows 2d videos in fisheye mode.

    then resize the fisheye size to give different depth cues and there you have the ar technology. each as moving a fisheye overlay that shows a 2d image, resize the fisheye circle for depth cues and there you go, no really fancy and can work with that small computer on the waist.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 3,600 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Meh! AR is for wimps. VR is what real men (and women!) use. B)

    Might be fine for various forms of training in the not-too-distant future but it's going to be useless for gaming compared to VR.

    Yep, I think AR will be for enhancing real-life... VR for escaping real-life.

    Although eventually the hardware will be capable of both.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1803 (17134.165)
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,247 Volunteer Moderator
    Of course if you just turn off the lights, AR turns into VR. Well, crappy tiny FOV VR, but still VR. :)

  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,401
    3Jane
    edited July 13
    I was actually going to buy this. Couldn't be more disappointed.


  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,193 Poster of the Week
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  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,247 Volunteer Moderator
    Sticking a Zed Mini on the front of a rift/vive is giving better results:


  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,401
    3Jane
    edited July 13
    You can tell the Magic Leap guys are really uncomfortable with what they are peddling. Reminds me of 'No Mans Sky'. 

    Basically you cannot get anywhere near the holograms. The engineer tries desperately to make this into a feature and says its rude to get too close, nervous laugh. More like nobody is talking about the elephant in the room or the one that is supposed to be in the hand.

    I mean 2 billion pounds for this? Somebody should be getting a boot up the arse.


  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,247 Volunteer Moderator
    You can tell the Magic Leap guys are really uncomfortable with what they are peddling. Reminds me of 'No Mans Sky'.


  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 3,600 Valuable Player

    To be fair, No Man's Sky turned out ok in the end... it just took a couple years from the initial release to get there! then again I didn't really get into what was promised until after it had been updated a couple times.


    I'm curious about this Zed Mini thing though.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1803 (17134.165)
  • RorschachPhoenixRorschachPhoenix Posts: 1,589 Valuable Player
    To be honest: I really hope it will NOT be a failure. There were to many large companys involved in this. Way too much money was thrown at that company. A failure of this size could harm the AR industry in a way that could kill it entirely.
    Excuse my bad english. I speak to you through the google translator. :P
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,695
    Project 2501
    edited July 13
    The controversy continues with ML.
    That these guys thought that these demos would address concerns shows a level of arrogance or share bravado that explains how they managed to raise so much money.
    At least we can now see who threw the first stone in their demise:


    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,247 Volunteer Moderator
    Here's a few thoughts about that rock throwing demo.
    The biggest flaw appears to be that the game part of the demo has no depth occlusion. No, I don't mean the transparency, all additive AR systems without a dynamic blocker like a clear/black lcd screen will be transparent.
    Take a look:

    The hand is in front of the rock and monster, but both are visible.

    We know it's possible, the ML has depth scanning. You can even see real time occlusion in the initial calibration of the same program:

    So, is it maybe a technical limitation? A static environment like the couch and the bit where the rock hits the ceiling have time to scan depth. A fast moving hand may be too quick for them to pick up.
    Or did the developers just not bother with occlusion for the whole thing?

    Another flaw, look at the FOV. The video is already very narrow FOV. But in the shot below, you can see how soon the ML image is cut off:

    Finally, it's clear they have a colour camera (or two), since according to Road To VR the entire video was recorded by the headset's camera (not through the wave guide screens). So why isn't the rock tinted to match the colour of the surface it was pulled out from? That seems really obvious.


    Overall it just seems like a quick hacky demo I'd expect in an sdk as a simple demo to show off how the code works, not something to show the public after billions of dollars has changed hands.


  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,695
    Project 2501
    edited July 14
    A great summation of the issues @kojack
    Just had one of our associates do a similar thing for a client request on the ML against competition. I think the main reason for ML wanting to have their hardware locked away figuratively and metaphorically in a safe is to avoid questions about about the poor CPU selection and the unacceptable FOV (a reason for the form factor of the "Kermit" glasses). 
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,193 Poster of the Week
    This product has weak sauce written ALL over it
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,458 Power Poster
    We won't see an AR headset with a decent FOV for quite some time I think, and wise money would be on Oculus-Facebook to do it first given that they have more talent and more money to spend than everyone else.

    This is precisely why I believe that Oculus haven't demoed any AR stuff. They're only going to show something when they have something that outshines the competition.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,695
    Project 2501
    snowdog said:
    We won't see an AR headset with a decent FOV for quite some time I think, 
    .....

    I beg to differ - but agree if we are looking at only a purely consumer perspective.

    In the commercial scene, we have four contenders that offer a great FOV for a AR (XR) environment - and HL are actually competing directly with these rather than looking at a consumer approach.

    I have been asked to do a feature on these, but will just share one of the contenders:

    Stormcloud - optics offer a transmission of >70%






    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • DilipDilip Posts: 103
    Art3mis
    edited July 14
    kojack said:
    Here's a few thoughts about that rock throwing demo.
    The biggest flaw appears to be that the game part of the demo has no depth occlusion. No, I don't mean the transparency, all additive AR systems without a dynamic blocker like a clear/black lcd screen will be transparent.
    Take a look:

    The hand is in front of the rock and monster, but both are visible.

    We know it's possible, the ML has depth scanning. You can even see real time occlusion in the initial calibration of the same program:

    So, is it maybe a technical limitation? A static environment like the couch and the bit where the rock hits the ceiling have time to scan depth. A fast moving hand may be too quick for them to pick up.
    Or did the developers just not bother with occlusion for the whole thing?

    Another flaw, look at the FOV. The video is already very narrow FOV. But in the shot below, you can see how soon the ML image is cut off:

    Finally, it's clear they have a colour camera (or two), since according to Road To VR the entire video was recorded by the headset's camera (not through the wave guide screens). So why isn't the rock tinted to match the colour of the surface it was pulled out from? That seems really obvious.


    Overall it just seems like a quick hacky demo I'd expect in an sdk as a simple demo to show off how the code works, not something to show the public after billions of dollars has changed hands.


    These flows already disturbed me too, created just too much hype and pouring of whopping amount of money and iron curtains on development sum up only for this disappointment?

    <"">

    Another thing is where gone that opacity of Robot demo, where robot was actually appearing like solid device? Wasn't their selling point in beginning was to create solid virtual objects like that elephant and whale they were not transparent....I think much gone through 2015 to 2018. What they are pushing towards consumer is not what they intended to sell instead what they intended could not be miniaturize so they took diversion to build something using track of what they were initially planing but not being as cool as what was initially planned. ... Sorry if this read too complicated, but don't have other wards to express what i intend. 
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 931 Poster of the Week
    edited July 14
    I'm sure there will be many people who disagree (and I know I'm going to look a bit fanboi here but that's not my intention), but this is the sort of space that Apple end up exploiting and then go an "invent <insert tech here>".

    the whole Zune/MP3 player thing, the smartphone, and then tablet space.. other players in the market try but bomb out for one reason or another, and then Apple swoop in and make it important to everyone on the planet.. noone asks what a Zune is anymore (except for my kids when we watched Guardians of the Galaxy 2), but just about everyone has owned an ipod.

    same with smartphone.. iphones stole the day when PDA's had been around for years, and I'm sure there are a bunch of people who think that Apple invented smartphones.

    not saying its a good thing or a bad thing, just something they're good at.

    it'll be interesting to see how Apple implement all of this when they announce their option (and you can tell it's going to happen with the ARkit stuff they've been doing the past 18 months - gotta prime the environment with cruft :smile:)

    [Edited to spell Zune properly)
    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
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