New To The Forum? Click Here To Read The How To Guide. -- Developers Click Here.

Feedback for Oculus: You're losing the market. Do something about it.. like:

DantacDantac Posts: 38
Brain Burst
edited January 10 in General
Oculus,

Despite having a superior product the oculus is simply not delivering the VR experience to the market. 

Why? Its games library is insignificant compared to the competition and on top of that, most of the oculus games are what in the old days we'd call 'demos' of a full game... aka VERY short and lack replay value. Basically a vertical slice mission of what would be a full game. 

So please Oculus... expand your game library. Stop the 'demo' sales which do not encourage companies to make complete games given profits come to them for what is essentially a tech demo effort/cost. 

Right now I have no way to know if the product on your oculus store is an actual game or a demo. Because of this I simply stopped purchasing games in the oculus store. I'm tired of buying what seems a complete game and it ends up being no more than a single mission or two type games. 

You should strive to only offer in the store games that at MINIMUM are like Robo Recall ... something you play for 40+ hours and has replay value even though its a VR version of a console shooter game (PCs can do so much better). A COMPLETE game would be Elite Dangerous.. while not designed for VR it literally is the poster boy of what VR can achieve as a gaming platform.. Elite Dangerous is simply not worth playing unless its in VR ..thats how BIG a difference VR makes in a game not made for VR. 

Encourage multiplayer games. Encourage complete games. 

Reach out to companies that have games in the market or being developed which can benefit from being able to use VR... Elite Dangerous is a functioning example of it. Why not reach to them and work with them to implement the TOUCH controllers for their game? 

Why not reach to Cloud Imperium Games and deal with them so the game they're developing, Star Citizen AND Squadron42 are Oculus+Touch ready when they launch?

Why not reach out to companies developing sims (racing,flight,space, sailing, etc), first person RPG and strategy games? 

I get that VR games are 'better' when developed FOR VR from the start but you simply DONT have the market nor the studious/publishers interested in it. Build the market by using what is at hand to start the momentum going. 

As it stands now, SADLY, VIVE is defeating Oculus hands down merely because of their HUGE library of games.. FULL games mind you... even if those games are essentially clones of playstation games from the past. 

Comments

  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 765
    Neo
    I must have missed something, but steams library of VR games is about the same size as the Rifts.. There's a few titles on steam which have VR support like Tombraider but they support all headsets.


  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 606
    Neo
    edited January 10
    I must have missed something, but steams library of VR games is about the same size as the Rifts.. There's a few titles on steam which have VR support like Tombraider but they support all headsets.


    Well, the OP has a point. What are my favorite VR Games right now?

    From Other Suns.
    Project Cars 2
    IL-2 (ww2 combat sim)
    Fallout 4 VR

    As you see, most of those are only available on Steam VR. There are also games like Doom 3 BFG VR mod that you can only get on Steam VR. 

    Why are Project Cars 2 and IL-2 not available on Oculus Home? 

    Also Dash is fantastic but Steam VR Home lets you join other people's rooms and offers more options. 

    Oculus has a better HMD and controls. Vive has better tracking solution and better library. Thank 

    @Dantac touch controls wouldn't work well with Ellite Dangerous. You would always be better off buying a joystick. And Frontier is totally free to implement that as an option but most VR players are using HOTAS. But I do agree that Oculus should have spent it's money working on porting AAA games rather than creating these short experiences. 

    And if you like Elite dangerous buy a cheap HOTAS, you'll be so happy. And try IL-2
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,815 Valuable Player
    I think the OP has been viewing Steam instead of the Oculus Store and has got them a bit confused.

    From Other Suns? Lone Echo? The Unspoken? Dead & Buried? Edge Of Nowhere? Chronos? Arktika.1? The Mages Tale? Robinson The Journey? Dreadhalls? SuperHOT VR? The Climb? Eve Valkyrie? Technolust? Lucky's Tale? Damaged Core?

    All funded by Oculus all full games.

    The reason why Steam has more games available than the Oculus Store is because Oculus has a Submission process that games have to pass before being allowed on the Oculus Store. Steam doesn't. At all. They let any old crap on there which is why 98% of the games available are complete turds.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • dburnedburne Posts: 923
    3Jane
    edited January 10
    MowTin said:
    I must have missed something, but steams library of VR games is about the same size as the Rifts.. There's a few titles on steam which have VR support like Tombraider but they support all headsets.



    Why are Project Cars 2 and IL-2 not available on Oculus Home? 

    I can only speak in regards to IL-2. When they implemented VR, they only had the time and resources to support Steam's Open VR, which was a wise choice due to that as it would be open to more users.

    I would love to see, and have encouraged them to hopefully at some point have native Oculus Home support. I would also love to see the sim offered on the Oculus store, as I am sure it would help growth in sales.
    Whether or not they ever will remains to be seen. If not for this sim, I would not even have Steam VR.

    You are right though, it is a fantastic combat flight sim and I shudder to think how many hours I have been flying it since they implemented VR support. My most used game, by far.

    Don

    EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I7 4820K@4.50 GHz|EVGA 1080Ti FTW3 Elite|16GB Corsair Platinum 2133MHz| TM Warthog + 7.5cm Ext| MFG Crosswind Pedals| Rift CV1|Windows 10 64 bit 
  • DantacDantac Posts: 38
    Brain Burst
    snowdog said:
    I think the OP has been viewing Steam instead of the Oculus Store and has got them a bit confused.

    From Other Suns? Lone Echo? The Unspoken? Dead & Buried? Edge Of Nowhere? Chronos? Arktika.1? The Mages Tale? Robinson The Journey? Dreadhalls? SuperHOT VR? The Climb? Eve Valkyrie? Technolust? Lucky's Tale? Damaged Core?

    All funded by Oculus all full games.

    The reason why Steam has more games available than the Oculus Store is because Oculus has a Submission process that games have to pass before being allowed on the Oculus Store. Steam doesn't. At all. They let any old crap on there which is why 98% of the games available are complete turds.
    You have given a very short list compared to what VIVE has and that is my point. They are losing the market not that 'they don't have a single one'. 

    Also, this 'submission process' comment .. sorry but I don't see that at all. MOST of the oculus home offered games are short, tech-demos for all purposes, type games. 

    Steam has a big library but very few of those support oculus touch (and lets be frank here, supporting VR alone doesn't make it an oculus game.. the Touch support does).

  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 765
    Neo
    MowTin said:
    I must have missed something, but steams library of VR games is about the same size as the Rifts.. There's a few titles on steam which have VR support like Tombraider but they support all headsets.


    Well, the OP has a point. What are my favorite VR Games right now?

    From Other Suns.
    Project Cars 2
    IL-2 (ww2 combat sim)
    Fallout 4 VR

    As you see, most of those are only available on Steam VR. There are also games like Doom 3 BFG VR mod that you can only get on Steam VR. 

    Why are Project Cars 2 and IL-2 not available on Oculus Home? 

    Also Dash is fantastic but Steam VR Home lets you join other people's rooms and offers more options. 

    Oculus has a better HMD and controls. Vive has better tracking solution and better library. Thank 

    @Dantac touch controls wouldn't work well with Ellite Dangerous. You would always be better off buying a joystick. And Frontier is totally free to implement that as an option but most VR players are using HOTAS. But I do agree that Oculus should have spent it's money working on porting AAA games rather than creating these short experiences. 

    And if you like Elite dangerous buy a cheap HOTAS, you'll be so happy. And try IL-2
    Fallout 4 VR isn't an actual VR game.. its just a mod for the base version of the game, sold as a re-released game. The reason it isn't on oculus home is simple. Zenimax the parent company behind Bethesda has issues with Facebook / Oculus.

    Don't know why PC2 and IL-2 arent on home though, but given that steam is not a dedicated VR platform like Home is, but is an all round game delivery platform, it makes sense they have more games available, even if the most of em arent worth your time.

    Also, a lot of games under the VR category in steam only have 1 lvl or a small expansion that is VR enabled and thus aren't actual VR games.
  • DantacDantac Posts: 38
    Brain Burst
    "MowTin said:
    @Dantac touch controls wouldn't work well with Ellite Dangerous. You would always be better off buying a joystick. And Frontier is totally free to implement that as an option but most VR players are using HOTAS. But I do agree that Oculus should have spent it's money working on porting AAA games rather than creating these short experiences. 

    And if you like Elite dangerous buy a cheap HOTAS, you'll be so happy"

    I do run a full hotas setup in elite D. 

    What I meant by oculus touch support is precisely the fact that it doesn't 'work well' with it. It can be made to work well by merely having the touch controller be the mouse pointer that is available in the cockpit as it is in the oculus home screen (hand with laser dot pointer). Flight wise there is no reason the touch controller can't be used as joystick in the same way the brilliant guy that made VTOL VR made the hand controller 'become' the joystick. 

    Oculus should be reaching out to established sim-type / 'in the cockpit' type games to have oculus+touch supported. They should be encouraging more complete games (not these silly tech demos sold AS a game) in the oculus home. 


  • SyrellarisSyrellaris Posts: 765
    Neo
    As I play Elite dangerous myself, I prefer either a Hotas or a xbox controller(i use an xbox controller btw). I feel the Touch controllers or vive wands simply would not be good enough. but that is a personal opinion. Also it is up to the developers on which control methods their games support.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 3,885 Volunteer Moderator
    MowTin said:

    Oculus has a better HMD and controls. Vive has better tracking solution and better library.
    Except Oculus has the Vive library too.

  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 830 Poster of the Week
    I'm confused by this thread a bit; how are Oculus not encouraging full games? they have spent a f#ckton of cash with Dev's to get good games made, and focussed on getting decent VR experiences that work in their store..

    a LOT of VR games are short at the moment with the reasons are (somewhat) obvious but basically come down to the fact that it takes a long time to develop a AA Game - 5 years in some cases before they come to market (depending on the amount of cash available to hire people).

    VR has only been out for 2 years, and hasn't hit mainstream yet.. it's AMAZING that we have the content we have already, and it's only by Oculus directly injecting millions in to the industry over the past 3 years (HTC came to the party late in that respect, and I'll be honest I've not looked for what they've spent money on).

    demanding that they do what they've already been doing for years is.. interesting..
    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 463 Poster of the Week
    Dantac said:
    snowdog said:
    I think the OP has been viewing Steam instead of the Oculus Store and has got them a bit confused.

    From Other Suns? Lone Echo? The Unspoken? Dead & Buried? Edge Of Nowhere? Chronos? Arktika.1? The Mages Tale? Robinson The Journey? Dreadhalls? SuperHOT VR? The Climb? Eve Valkyrie? Technolust? Lucky's Tale? Damaged Core?

    All funded by Oculus all full games.

    The reason why Steam has more games available than the Oculus Store is because Oculus has a Submission process that games have to pass before being allowed on the Oculus Store. Steam doesn't. At all. They let any old crap on there which is why 98% of the games available are complete turds.
    You have given a very short list compared to what VIVE has and that is my point. They are losing the market not that 'they don't have a single one'. 

    Also, this 'submission process' comment .. sorry but I don't see that at all. MOST of the oculus home offered games are short, tech-demos for all purposes, type games. 

    Steam has a big library but very few of those support oculus touch (and lets be frank here, supporting VR alone doesn't make it an oculus game.. the Touch support does).



    I'm really not sure what you're going on about. What are these VR games you speak of that work on the Vive but not the Rift? I'm looking at steam right now and from the top sellers list, there is Fallout 4 VR (which does work on the Rift, just not ideal), LA Noire (hardlock I think), Pavlov (allegedly works fine, just no Rift tag) and Doom VFR (worst game of the year contender? also works with mods). That's 4 games out of the top 50 sellers on steam. Stretch it to the top 100 and it's 8 games of 100, though at least one of those "vive exclusives" is sold on Oculus Home, so yeah. Also, Oculus has its own "exclusives" too.

    Honestly, there is precious little difference in what's available between the two as far as I can tell.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,902 Poster of the Week
    I buy my VR games on Oculus home or Steam.   My favorite games are Onward and From Other Suns, I bought Onward on Steam, and From Other Suns on Oculus Home.  I've owned Onward for over a year so I got it way before it was on Oculus.  I don't see a problem because I can buy the games on either platform and usually if the game is good the Dev tries to support both HMDs.  I purchase a lot on steam because Oculus has no gifting option so I can't send anything to my brother or friends, but Steam does have this option.  I think the sales platforms are competing more so than the HMDs themselves, at least that's the case for me.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 121
    Art3mis
    Yea I don't see a big disparity between the two on the major titles. Steam does have a lot more indie stuff for sure but shrug. Like others have mentioned we can play nearly everything anyway.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 3,474 Poster of the Week
    edited January 11
    How is a game like Elite Dangerous not worth playing unless it has VR? That doesn't say much for it's gameplay and gameplay is what the OP is referring to is it not? I'm confused now? So your happy to sit in a space ship in VR, in Elite Dangerous, but how does that change the crappy gameplay you speak about in Elite Dangerous? 
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 606
    Neo
    Dantac said:
    "MowTin said:
    @Dantac touch controls wouldn't work well with Ellite Dangerous. You would always be better off buying a joystick. And Frontier is totally free to implement that as an option but most VR players are using HOTAS. But I do agree that Oculus should have spent it's money working on porting AAA games rather than creating these short experiences. 

    And if you like Elite dangerous buy a cheap HOTAS, you'll be so happy"

    I do run a full hotas setup in elite D. 

    What I meant by oculus touch support is precisely the fact that it doesn't 'work well' with it. It can be made to work well by merely having the touch controller be the mouse pointer that is available in the cockpit as it is in the oculus home screen (hand with laser dot pointer). Flight wise there is no reason the touch controller can't be used as joystick in the same way the brilliant guy that made VTOL VR made the hand controller 'become' the joystick. 

    Oculus should be reaching out to established sim-type / 'in the cockpit' type games to have oculus+touch supported. They should be encouraging more complete games (not these silly tech demos sold AS a game) in the oculus home. 


    I totally agree with that. Modding existing games should be the focus. Without Project Cars, IL-2 and other existing modded titles I wouldn't have much to play.

    Ultrawings is a game that uses the virtual joystick. I think it's a good idea but when I try virtual joysticks they are frustrating and I just want to use a real joystick. But I haven't tried VTOL yet. So busy with other games.

    Another big issue is developers don't have much resources to throw at VR. They don't want to develop for multiple platforms. Now that we have more headsets like piMax, WMR, etc, why waste time developing for Oculus when you can just develop for OpenVR and release on Steam?

    Why doesn't Oculus join OpenVR and work to make that better rather than creating proprietary apis? 
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 775 Poster of the Week
    edited January 12



    MowTin said:
    Dantac said:
    "MowTin said:
    @Dantac touch controls wouldn't work well with Ellite Dangerous. You would always be better off buying a joystick. And Frontier is totally free to implement that as an option but most VR players are using HOTAS. But I do agree that Oculus should have spent it's money working on porting AAA games rather than creating these short experiences. 

    And if you like Elite dangerous buy a cheap HOTAS, you'll be so happy"

    I do run a full hotas setup in elite D. 

    What I meant by oculus touch support is precisely the fact that it doesn't 'work well' with it. It can be made to work well by merely having the touch controller be the mouse pointer that is available in the cockpit as it is in the oculus home screen (hand with laser dot pointer). Flight wise there is no reason the touch controller can't be used as joystick in the same way the brilliant guy that made VTOL VR made the hand controller 'become' the joystick. 

    Oculus should be reaching out to established sim-type / 'in the cockpit' type games to have oculus+touch supported. They should be encouraging more complete games (not these silly tech demos sold AS a game) in the oculus home. 


    I totally agree with that. Modding existing games should be the focus. Without Project Cars, IL-2 and other existing modded titles I wouldn't have much to play.

    Ultrawings is a game that uses the virtual joystick. I think it's a good idea but when I try virtual joysticks they are frustrating and I just want to use a real joystick. But I haven't tried VTOL yet. So busy with other games.

    Another big issue is developers don't have much resources to throw at VR. They don't want to develop for multiple platforms. Now that we have more headsets like piMax, WMR, etc, why waste time developing for Oculus when you can just develop for OpenVR and release on Steam?

    Why doesn't Oculus join OpenVR and work to make that better rather than creating proprietary apis? 

    Oculus is making exclusive and proprietary games because unlike HTC Oculus is funding projects to get games out there.

    Why dump money into games then allow your competition to reap the rewards instead of rewarding the individuals who are supporting your product.

    HTC has done zeltch to create a gaming landscape for us that's been Steam and Oculus's bag so far.

    Last I heard you cannot play a PS4 game on an Xbox one at least with revive the HTC users have a chance to play decent games that are not simply racing and flight sims.

    This technology is way to early to be simply a peripheral it needs to be funded through sales of both the unit and games to support it.

    Which is something HTC did not understand when they made that horrible deal with Steam.

    WAAAGH!
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,815 Valuable Player
    I'm still surprised why HTC are continuing to work with Valve. They would have been better off negotiating a licencing deal with Oculus to use the Constellation tracking system instead of Lighthouse.

    Why? For four reasons:

    1) The components of Constellation are cheaper to manufacture.

    2) Doing so would give their HMDs the advantages of using the Oculus SDK.

    3) Owners of their headsets would have the ability to use both Steam and the Oculus Store.

    4) The licencing deal would probably be more attractive.

    Any headset manufacturer would be better off doing a deal with Oculus, particularly Pimax given ASW.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • goldrush76goldrush76 Posts: 28
    Brain Burst
    snowdog said:
    They would have been better off negotiating a licencing deal with Oculus to use the Constellation tracking system instead of Lighthouse.

    Are you kidding me? The constellation tracking is the only thing about Oculus that drives me insane because of all the USB connectivity troubleshooting!! I bought into Oculus Rift knowing that I would probably sustain mental injuries while also needing to be patient through USB issues even though i researched my brains out to ensure purchasing the best possible compatible components... Still I've had 2 sensors replaced even though they might not have been the root cause, LOL. Use a super modern "VR Ready" motherboard that Gigabyte support said should have been "plug and play" and have had plenty of conversation with Oculus support overall in addition to scouring the online community on Oculus USB topics. Even with all the money invested I may still end up needing to pay for the expensive 4 channel USB expansion card even though I shouldn't need it at all with my motherboard. lmao.

    I swear I hope Oculus finds a way to upgrade their tracking hardware with CV2 or somehow make it a ton less complicated like the lighthouse setup. Even if Oculus decides to stay with cameras I pray they can find a way to improve the situation!! Can you say that needing to strategize all the logistics of cables around your room on top of USB hardware and power issues?

    /EndRant

    I still love the system anyhow and I made my choice based on primarily 2 things. #1 - content is king and I wanted to play The Climb with native controls, not through ReVive , and #2 - Touch being superior to Vive. I waited and waited to see if Knuckles would be released by the time I was ready to purchase so there would be even comparisons... but nope.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 1,902 Poster of the Week
    I'm lucky, my sensors worked fine on two separate systems now.  I did end up buying that 4 channel USB card by Inatek.  Maybe you are referring to another one because the Inatek was only around $23.  I needed more USB ports for an external drive and some other peripherals though, I don't think I needed it for the rift, but I do plug the headset itself into it.
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 1,567 Valuable Player
    falken76 said:
    I'm lucky, my sensors worked fine on two separate systems now.  I did end up buying that 4 channel USB card by Inatek.  Maybe you are referring to another one because the Inatek was only around $23.  I needed more USB ports for an external drive and some other peripherals though, I don't think I needed it for the rift, but I do plug the headset itself into it.
    Same for me, no real issues the occasion issue with a firmware update that then decided to go for some reason. The card was a great buy once you start adding flight sim things, pads etc

    My only bug bear is sometimes my settings will decide to completely reset, i have become fast on set up now thankfully
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • Atmos73Atmos73 Posts: 2,349
    Project 2501
    MowTin said:



    Why doesn't Oculus join OpenVR and work to make that better rather than creating proprietary apis? 
    They have its call OpenXR. All the big players are there including Microsoft.

    https://www.khronos.org/openxr
Sign In or Register to comment.