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What resolution per eye in VR to make it look like a 1080p monitor?

RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 3,466 Poster of the Week
What resolution per eye you would need to make VR look as clear as a 1080p montitor in VR. Thank you!

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  • BeastyBaiterBeastyBaiter Posts: 460 Poster of the Week
    Depends on field of view (FoV). Allegedly the Samsung Odyssey looks more or less like 1080p on a normal sized computer monitor, that headset runs 78% higher resolution than the Rift (1440x1600 vs 1080x1200). Both have roughly equal FoV. If the FoV is bumped higher, more resolution is needed to compensate. Similarly, 1080p looks different depending on how big the screen is. On a giant wall sized TV, 1080p looks low res. You can easily see individual pixels up close. That same resolution on a tiny laptop screen makes the pixels a lot less obvious though, unless looking with a magnifying glass.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,800 Valuable Player
    Over 9000 of course like the Pimax :D

    Well the hands on reports I've read of the Vive Pro so far say that they're ALMOST there with 1.5K but not quite. 2K should just about do it I reckon.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 3,466 Poster of the Week
    I'm starting to wish there was a small bump in Res from Oculus. The wait for a higher resolution headset is taken to long. With other headsets arriving it's making the wait seem even longer
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,062
    Wintermute
    Just because the monitor* is 1080p means your eyes perceive the same!
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  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 606
    Neo
    edited January 11
    Depends on field of view (FoV). Allegedly the Samsung Odyssey looks more or less like 1080p on a normal sized computer monitor, that headset runs 78% higher resolution than the Rift (1440x1600 vs 1080x1200). Both have roughly equal FoV. If the FoV is bumped higher, more resolution is needed to compensate. Similarly, 1080p looks different depending on how big the screen is. On a giant wall sized TV, 1080p looks low res. You can easily see individual pixels up close. That same resolution on a tiny laptop screen makes the pixels a lot less obvious though, unless looking with a magnifying glass.
    I have a 135" projector screen and a 1080p projector. I can't see any pixels even I'm inches from the screen. Projectors use a trick to blur the gaps (I think). But you're point is totally true.

    What I would love to see is a comparison of Sumsung Odyssey, Vive Pro, PiMax 8k in something like this...


  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 3,466 Poster of the Week
    @MowTin - What resoloutions are vamilla/1k/BestChoice/4k? Well what resolution is 1k & Best Choice?
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 606
    Neo
    RedRizla said:
    @MowTin - What resoloutions are vamilla/1k/BestChoice/4k? Well what resolution is 1k & Best Choice?
    It was a cut paste error. I updated it.
  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 159
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 12
    Resolution depends on magnification power. More magnification power = closer to the thing being looked at = larger pixel size = more identifiable individual pixels.

    So by reducing the magnification power you increase the distance the eye sees the pixels at. So theoretically if you have a large display at a large distance from the eye you wouldn't see the individual pixels on the display because the distance reduces the magnification power to the extend you see a clear no screen door picture.

    But because the screen size is kept artificially small you need it close to see the size correctly which increases the magnification power and requires complex cpu power and display pixel density. 

    if you multiplied the screen size being used now by 1, and also increased the distance the screen is looked at by 2, the magnification would be less on the individual pixels and reduce the screen door effect for the cost of a few ounces in increased weight from the larger screen distance.

    Lets do the math. oculus rift screen size = 90 mm × 2, 456 ppi

    (90 mm × 2, 456 ppi  Multiplied by 1), viewed at a distance times farther than in the rift = 100 percent less screen door effect = looks more like a 1080p screen.
    = 90 mm × (2, 456 ppi * 2) = 90 mm x 4912 ppi

    or 

    (90 mm × 2, 456 ppi  Multiplied by 1), viewed at a distance 1.5 times farther than in the rift = 50 percent less screen door effect = looks more like a 720p screen.
    = 90 mm × (2, 456 ppi * 1.5) = 90 mm x 3684  ppi

    Using a different ppi measurement they say the rift has a ppi of 460.
    460 * 2 = 920 ppi = 100 percent less sde
    460 * 1.5 = 690 ppi = 50 percent sde

    So the above was theory, lets look at the picture to see what the vive prop ppi at 615 looks like for sde:


    the pimax 8k ppi is 806, they say you can't see any sde on the pimax 8k.

    I think no sde = 720p visual effect.

    The vive pro resolution = 50 percent less sde than the rifts if you look at the picture, so my numbers hold true I think, a ppi of 920 would be a bit more than 8k of the pimax 8k but would be 2 times less sde than the vive pro is, 920 ppi = 1080p resolution = 9k maybe.
  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 159
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 12
    (90 mm × 2, 456 ppi  Multiplied by 2), viewed at a distance times farther than in the rift = 100 percent less screen door effect = looks more like a 1080p screen.
    = (90 mm  * 2) × 2, 456 ppi = 180 mm x 2456 ppi viewed 2 times distance = reduced pixel magnification = less sde to mimic a 9k screen for the cost of a much larger headset that weighs a bit more.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,788 Valuable Player

    Here's another take on equivalent detail !!


    Clarity of detail is all about pixels per degree of vision.


    So, let's say the monitor is a 27 incher and it's on your desk about 1 meter away. That'll give you 1920 horizontal pixels spread across 33.3 degrees of your vision, giving a PPD of 57.7


    It's going to be a looooooong time before a VR headset comes close to that. By my reconning the CV1 and Vive have a PPD of approx. 14, the Vive Pro will have a PPD of approx. 18.

    The proposed Pimax 8K PPD will be about 16 (if we're talking about the 4K that's upscaled rather than the 8K marketing), this is because the available pixels are spread over such a wide FOV.


    Unless my maths is completely wrong, a single 4K panel (or the equivalent if separate panels are used for each eye) and a 120 deg FOV could achieve a 21 PPD, which is what I'm hoping for with CV2.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,800 Valuable Player
    @DaftnDirect I'm not holding too much hope for 4K for the CV2 but I'm 100% certain we'll see at least a 2K headset with a 120-130° FOV.

    If Oculus get their foveated rendering sorted out then everyone else, including Pimax, might as well give up and go home lol

    You'll end up with a 4K headset probably able to run on a recommended spec VR Ready PC today as the minimum spec machine.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,788 Valuable Player

    Yeah, I'm not going to be disappointed with that. At the very least, we can be reasonably confident that a CV2 if released 8-12 months after Vive pro, will have 8-12 months of technical advancement. Just in time to coincide with my HMD and GPU upgrade window.

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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 3,466 Poster of the Week
    So is the Vive Pro just under 2k per eye?
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,788 Valuable Player

    Well 2K resolution is approx. 2000 pixels horizontal (2048 or 1998 depending on format), the Vive Pro screens are 1400 horizontal each.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,800 Valuable Player
    edited January 12
    RedRizla said:
    So is the Vive Pro just under 2k per eye?

    It's actually 1.5K per eye. Which is why I've been saying it's an awful business decision by HTC. They'll be releasing the bundle Q4 this year and the CV2 will more than likely release a few months later, Q1 or Q2 next year, with a higher resolution and a higher FOV.

    It's a crazy short-term decision from them that they're going to regret making. There's a good chance that they're going to lose A LOT of money doing this.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 3,466 Poster of the Week
    edited January 13
    They should sell it as a bundle from the off if they want to make anything from it. What a crazy idea just selling it as a stand alone headset. There again they are probably doing that because the headset alone will be something like £499 to £599..
  • shadowfroggershadowfrogger Posts: 470
    Nexus 6
    I think people should have way more hope for higher resolutions for the cv2. Especially if it drops in 2020. I'm going to put out a bullish minimum of 130' fov and minimum 4k panel per eye approx.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 2,800 Valuable Player
    I think people should have way more hope for higher resolutions for the cv2. Especially if it drops in 2020. I'm going to put out a bullish minimum of 130' fov and minimum 4k panel per eye approx.

    Oculus won't have a 4 year lifespan for the CV1. That's as bad a business decision as HTC giving the Vive a 2 year lifespan.

    They'll drop the CV1 price to $299/£299 later this year, release a 2K/4K headset (depending on foveated rendering progress) next year and continue manufacturing and selling the CV1 for at least another year as an entry level VR headset.

    Unless the Vive Pro bundle is cheaper than the CV2 HTC are going to struggle to shift units.

    I'm still pretty gobsmacked that HTC have made such an idiotic business decision tbh. If I was an HTC shareholder I'd be fuming.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 2,788 Valuable Player

    I won't wait 2 more years that's for sure, whatever the best headset is in 12 months time... that's what I'll get & I'm talking whole package including operating software.


    ...wait let me just go & see if any new objects have landed in Home.

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