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45 FPS Problem in some games

RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
NerveGear
edited January 2018 in Support
I initially chimed in on another thread regarding FPS problems in Robo Recall but I am realizing it isn't just that game. I'm having this in other games as well such as The Climb and Bending the Light. I'm using Oculus Tray Tool to confirm the FPS and performance headroom. In-game there is visible stuttering while moving around or even just watching moving objects. FPS is reported steady at 45 with negative headroom. Windows reports the process using around 32% GPU usage and 20% CPU. The system is a new MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider with GTX 1070 and Windows 10. I've tried some suggestions like turning off ASW Mode to no effect, updating drivers, etc. I'm running GeForce drivers v390.65. The only thing I've found that helps (tested in Robo Recall) is if the game can be windowed and then minimized on the computer screen, the FPS immediately camps out at 90 FPS with 30-50% headroom.Other games or environments such as the new Oculus Home, Job Simulator, Echo Arena and Star Trek Bridge Crew all run steadily at 90 FPS with no less than 20% headroom. I'm unsure what changed but I can say when I first got the system all the games seemed to run flawlessly.

Is this a known issue, as I've seen other people reporting similar problems? Is there any resolution? Not only for myself, but I want to have some friends over to blow their minds and would like the experience to be excellent like it was previously.
MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM

Best Answers

  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    Accepted Answer
    Okay so reporting back in on this. The tl;dr is - it was totally a hardware problem in my case. I know Sharkster-NVR is reporting a completely different experience, and it may just be a different situation. After discovering multiple comments on the MSI forum that many people were reporting huge performance dips on the Intel 7700HQ proc running only 1 stick of RAM, I bought a second 16GB stick today and installed it. Dual-channel memory access for the win, in my case. I can now:
    • Run the system without an external monitor
    • Have many apps running on the laptop screen
    • Run the 390.65 drivers
    and I have flawless Robo Recall performance at 90 fps with even more performance headroom than before.

    In truth this makes sense for me, because the system is using a hybrid Intel / NVIDIA solution and dependent on the Intel adapter, and the huge bandwidth requirement these game graphics require, not operating the memory access in dual channel mode creates a bottleneck.

    What I can't explain is why the newer drivers aren't creating a performance problem that I can see. I can only attribute that to running a rigorous process each time:
    1. Boot into safe mode
    2. Run DDU to yank out all existing GeForce drivers
    3. Rebooting back to normal mode
    4. Installing the new drivers fresh
     But I'm certain others may have done this and still had problems. In summary - this is really complicated. In my case I'm having a hard time pinning it on the drivers as it ended up just being a memory bottleneck.

    Huge thanks to LZoltowski for reading a bazillion articles trying to help me ;) and to everyone else giving suggestions. This may not be over for me yet but my initial tests here are extremely promising. 

    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
«134

Answers

  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,496 Volunteer Moderator
    Nvidia and windows 10 keep messing with the underlying tech, and Oculus devs have to keep playing catchup.

    Can you try and get the 388.71 driver from Nvidia and try that out?

    http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/128421/en-us
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 273
    Nexus 6
    ^^This 100 times, and all we can do at the moment is use the OT to help with this until some fixes come along.
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    Nvidia and windows 10 keep messing with the underlying tech, and Oculus devs have to keep playing catchup.
    Well boo. At least I know it's not just me or my system though.

    Can you try and get the 388.71 driver from Nvidia and try that out?
    http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/128421/en-us

    Yeah, I can. The best way I've read to do this is with a full manual removal and reinstall. Despite upgrading  from 388.x to 390.x, I have no rollback driver option in device manager like this post suggests.

    Is the manual removal and reinstall the recommended way to go? Thanks!

    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    Okay, well I just installed 388.71 drivers and that did not make a difference at all sadly. Then I removed that and installed the 388.43 drivers and that also made no difference. Another odd thing I've noticed is that heavy hard drive activity will drop the Oculus to 45 fps, or even just grabbing a window on the computer screen and "shaking" it back and forth quickly will drop the fps to 45. The computer screen and the oculus performance seemed to be locked together somehow that makes no sense to me. I confirmed n the GeForce Control Panel I have the preferred graphics processor set to "High-performance NVIDIA processor".

    Any other suggestions? I've appreciated the feedback and would love to get this resolved.
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,496 Volunteer Moderator
    Man that sucks big time .. 

    Out of interest .. in the Nvidia Panel: Power Management is it set to "prefer maximum performance?"
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    Man that sucks big time .. 

    Out of interest .. in the Nvidia Panel: Power Management is it set to "prefer maximum performance?"

    It was set to optimal power, but changing to prefer maximum performance didn't make a difference. Minimizing a game window has an immediate affect. I've found even moving my mouse quickly over the Oculus application (which isn't even being mirrored) causes the FPS to drop. This is kinda ridiculous.
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,496 Volunteer Moderator
    edited January 2018
    Yeah, thats so peculiar! The Oculus application, what CPU affinity/priority does it have? and the OSVR service
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    Yeah, thats so peculiar! The Oculus application, what CPU affinity/priority does it have? and the OSVR service

    Unchanged. Normal CPU and affinity. As I mentioned, while in game the system is not taxed. I've not done anything that I can think of other than update drivers and software as needed. I've opened a support ticket as this is so repeatable and causing such a noticeable problem with performance. I've also had 2-3 game crashes in Robo Recall since this started up too.
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 2018
    There are reports about NVidia drivers ruining the Rift's VR experience all over the internet. It even appears as if the later (newer) the NVidia driver, the worse the negative impact. I gradually rolled back the drivers and landed at 384.94 to have optimal performance (no stuttering, no jitters, best performance).

    Just looking at the first couple of pages of this support forum, you'll get dozens of posts from users complaining about how NVidia messes stuff up. It gets as bad as the very latest release (390.65) totally killing the Rift (https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/61154/oculus-rift-not-working-with-nvidia-driver-390-65).

    Kinda funny how all this stuff seems to be released pretty much untested as "stable release". Ridiculous...


    Anyway, you can find previous NVidia drivers here:
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear

    Anyway, you can find previous NVidia drivers here:
    Ah ha, thank you for this link. I was using another page that was not listing versions back this far. I am going to try a much older version tonight as I have a friend confirming he's not seeing this issue on a version around 382.x. Support also gave me a brute force method to reinstall Oculus software which I'm going to try as well.
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,129 Power Poster
    Just be aware that you'll have to go back to Classic Home instead of Home 2.0/Dash if you go back that far with your driver. The new Home requires driver 388.31 or newer.
    i7 5820K @ 4.25 GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32 GB | Corsair HX 750W
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  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    Well crap. I can't find the reference now but I thought it was said classic home would be unavailable at some point. Hopefully this is resolved before then!
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 2018
    nalex66 said:
    Just be aware that you'll have to go back to Classic Home instead of Home 2.0/Dash if you go back that far with your driver. The new Home requires driver 388.31 or newer.

    Another arbritrary limitation I don't understand. E.g. the latest iteration of Unreal Engine (4.19) runs butter smooth and 100% feature complete on July release NVidia drivers.

    As a hardware manfuacturer, how can you limit out older drivers, if you KNOW that your hardware doesn't optimally perform on new drivers? If you look at this forum alone, there are dozens of posts on the first few pages, where people complain about the experience with current NVidia drivers.

    At least it's pretty easy to switch to Classic Home screen (just a slider in the settings menu), but the "this won't be around for long" comment is ridiculous. It almost sounds like a threat to me. Like: "Your Rift will be completely useless in a few weeks!". We're devs and we put our money on NVidia and Oculus hardware (we sell complete systems). Bitterly regretting this decision since around October 2017, when things started to get so messed up... (using the friendly term here). :/
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,496 Volunteer Moderator
    How are you disabling ASW? Using Tray Tool or Oculus Debug Tool? Or Using CTRL + Numpad 1

    This is in the debug tool:




    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,496 Volunteer Moderator
    People are reporting that some methods dont work anymore.. this from Oculus:

    The Rift operates at 90Hz. With ASW, when an application fails to submit frames at 90Hz, the Rift runtime drops the application down to 45Hz with ASW providing each intermediate frame.

    And it sounds like ASW panics, Kicks in limiting the fps then forgets to draw the extra frames!

    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 2018
    The next ridiculous thing: At the moment, you CANNOT disable ASW permanently. You'll have to do it every time you launch Oculus services, as they will reset it to AUTO. Tray Tool doesn't help neither... and the Windows registry key that once allowed you to permanently disable ASW was removed.

    Having said this... we now use the Debug tool (every time we start the Oculus service). All these decisions and the lack of care by Oculus are TOTALLY beyond me. Especially if you know that this is a multi-billion dollar company. Feels more like an experimental indie hardware dev doing business from Daddy's garage.
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,129 Power Poster
    nalex66 said:
    Just be aware that you'll have to go back to Classic Home instead of Home 2.0/Dash if you go back that far with your driver. The new Home requires driver 388.31 or newer.

    Another arbritrary limitation I don't understand. E.g. the latest iteration of Unreal Engine (4.19) runs butter smooth and 100% feature complete on July release NVidia drivers.

    As a hardware manfuacturer, how can you limit out older drivers, if you KNOW that your hardware doesn't optimally perform on new drivers? If you look at this forum alone, there are dozens of posts on the first few pages, where people complain about the experience with current NVidia drivers.

    At least it's pretty easy to switch to Classic Home screen (just a slider in the settings menu), but the "this won't be around for long" comment is ridiculous. It almost sounds like a threat to me. Like: "Your Rift will be completely useless in a few weeks!". We're devs and we put our money on NVidia and Oculus hardware (we sell complete systems). Bitterly regretting this decision since around October 2017, when things started to get so messed up... (using the friendly term here). :/
    It's not an arbitrary limitation, they worked with Nvidia and AMD to add specific driver features needed to run Dash as an overlay within VR apps, as described here.
    i7 5820K @ 4.25 GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32 GB | Corsair HX 750W
    Corsair Hydro H100i | Samsung SSDs: 860 Evo 1 TB, 850 Evo 1 TB, 840 Evo 1 TB | Seagate BarraCuda HDD 3 TB
    My Oculus Medium sketchbook thread, and my Oculus Medium Gallery
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited January 2018
    nalex66 said:
    It's not an arbitrary limitation, they worked with Nvidia and AMD to add specific driver features needed to run Dash as an overlay within VR apps, as described here.


    Well, then why not work with NVidia to make the current drivers actually work? I'm not sure if I need a "home screen I can decorate" for as long as the Rift stutters and jitters in pretty much every game. I also don't need a "decorated in-game Oculus overlay", if immersion has already gone to hell.

    I know, I start to sound sarcastic, but we get complaints from our customers... and we can't help them. We expected things to improve from last year's summer situation... not to go downhill. If you open a support ticket regarding these issues, you get "Did you make sure your PC uses the correct GPU?"... I mean... WTF? A board full of complaints and they give me the: "Turn it off, then turn it on again... and see if it works.". :/
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    How are you disabling ASW? Using Tray Tool or Oculus Debug Tool? Or Using CTRL + Numpad 1

    I've tried the Oculus Debug Tool and Tray Tool. I'm assuming the tray tool setting is working because when I turn ASW on, fps drops to 45 instantly. What I'm seeing looks more like a performance bottleneck. The GPU is only around 33% util but the HUD performance is showing around 45 fps, fluctuating, and massive spikes and lows on performance headroom between 5% and -2000%. (Again the odd correlation between what is happening on the computer screen and the headset is unusual. Even just mouse movement over the Oculus software causes an immediate and drastic performance hit.)

    I'll also add that I've run the Steam VR Performance Test and the system measures on the very top end of performance scale, saying something like "your system performs well above recommendations", and the test more fully utilizes the GPU hammering it to around 95%.

    P.S. GPU util reports coming from Windows Task Manager.
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    Having said this... we now use the Debug tool (every time we start the Oculus service).
    I can't say I've tried this. Are you saying you use the debug tool to start the service, or you need to use the debug tool again every time the service is started up?
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    The latter. We start the OVR services, then run the Tray Tool (ASW set back to auto) and set it manually to disabled. This needs to be repeated with every launch.
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,496 Volunteer Moderator
    Having said this... we now use the Debug tool (every time we start the Oculus service).
    I can't say I've tried this. Are you saying you use the debug tool to start the service, or you need to use the debug tool again every time the service is started up?
    Yes, ASW resets every time you open up Oculus ...
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    Gotcha. Yeah that's what I'm doing, to no effect though. :( Tonight I'm going to try a manual uninstall of Oculus, per support's recommendation, and then the drivers from mid-2017.
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    There are reports about NVidia drivers ruining the Rift's VR experience all over the internet. It even appears as if the later (newer) the NVidia driver, the worse the negative impact. I gradually rolled back the drivers and landed at 384.94 to have optimal performance (no stuttering, no jitters, best performance).

    Just looking at the first couple of pages of this support forum, you'll get dozens of posts from users complaining about how NVidia messes stuff up. It gets as bad as the very latest release (390.65) totally killing the Rift. Literally.

    Kinda funny how all this stuff seems to be released untested as "stable release". Ridiculous...


    Anyway, you can find previous NVidia drivers here:
    http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    There are reports about NVidia drivers ruining the Rift's VR experience all over the internet. It even appears as if the later (newer) the NVidia driver, the worse the negative impact. I gradually rolled back the drivers and landed at 384.94 to have optimal performance (no stuttering, no jitters, best performance).

    Just looking at the first couple of pages of this support forum, you'll get dozens of posts from users complaining about how NVidia messes stuff up. It gets as bad as the very latest release (390.65) totally killing the Rift. Literally.

    Kinda funny how all this stuff seems to be released untested as "stable release". Ridiculous...


    Anyway, you can find previous NVidia drivers here:
    http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    So the only thing I've learned is it isn't specifically the drivers. I manually uninstalled and cleaned Oculus which didn't seem to help. I also reverted all the way back to 384.94 drivers but that did nothing. I'm going to keep working at it with support.
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    So the only thing I've learned is it isn't specifically the drivers. I manually uninstalled and cleaned Oculus which didn't seem to help. I also reverted all the way back to 384.94 drivers but that did nothing. I'm going to keep working at it with support.

    Thx for reporting back. As you rolled back 384.94 (or beyond), you didn't notice any improvement regarding jutters and stuttering with your Rift?
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
  • RedLeader42RedLeader42 Posts: 44
    NerveGear
    If there was any improvement it was within the range of "could be in my head; maybe 5-10ish fps improvement but not improved to steady 90" and it coincided with reinstalling the Oculus software not the drivers! Things are a bit more playable now, which is good. I can see 50-80 fps fluctuating in Robo Recall, but again minimizing the screen pushes it to 90 and makes it WAY more playable. 388.31 drivers provide the same experience as the 384.94 as far as I can tell.
    MSI GE63VR-7RF Raider | GTX 1070 8 GB | Core i7-7700HQ 2.80 - 3.80 GHz | 32 GB RAM
  • Sharkster-NVRSharkster-NVR Posts: 74
    Hiro Protagonist
    Thx for the feedback...
    ERAZER X7849 Notebook - CPU: Intel Core i7 6820HK - GPU: GTX 1070, 8 GB GDDR5 RAM - RAM: 32 GB (4x 8 GB DDR4 HYNIX PC4 17000 DUAL CHANNEL) - MAINBOARD: INTEL HM170
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