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More myopic reporting from pundits

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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,451 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    Atmos73 said:


    CCP have already quit the VR scene because it’s unsustainable. 

    But it if you want to put your head in the sand and pretend everything’s roses in PCVR land after 2 years of stats then be my guest. 
    I admit it sucks that gpus are so damned expensive.... there are a number of reasons for this i suspect, ram prices, miners and a terrible showing from AMD at the sharp end....

    but still imo there is no need the throw out the baby with the bathwater.  also imo you cant have it both ways.... Bethesda have managed 30k sales (I a taking you at your word) from a what......... 8 (total guess and no time to google) year old game with VR slapped on.

    it is NOT a proper VR title with full interaction like many of us expect now with VR titles AND it is selling for new release prices despite essentially being what many have released for free as an update. Also its not like it has been out for long.

    I suspect there are many of us who DO want skyrim but because we already own the game, know the story, AND know it is just a mod and not a proper vr title, and those of us on rift are stuck with steamVR, could well be waiting for it to hit a cheaper price.
    I have more games than i know what to do with, so i am not supporting bethesda at those prices for a not fully featured vr mod, even if it is good (because the 2D foundation was good but i have already paid for that)

    1st in line will be lone echo when i eventually get the time and maybe mages tale....  when bethesda make a full VR game OR charge accordingly for a bolt on dlc then i think you will see better sales.

    it is also *possible* a lot of rifters are actually not buying out of principle after the shoddy treatment with doom and fallout..... many claim they will never support an oculus funded title because it relies on the goodwill of revive... so what is good for the goose and all that........... fallout and doom rely on hacks to make it work properly and even then its not perfect so...............................................................
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,039 Valuable Player

    I'm really afraid HTC are going to exit the field so yes, I totally agree Microsoft getting enthusiastic about VR as they seemed to be around the launch of CV1 would be a tremendous boost. Office type applications (and CAD especially) would be fantastic... those kind of apps would really need resolution rather than FOV... and probably more lightweight & comfortable headsets to satisfy the average CAD monkey.


    Sorry CAD monkeys, I include myself in that description.

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  • SimonSays28SimonSays28 Posts: 576
    Neo

    SimonSays28, I think there are 2 groups of people now, the enthusiasts who've already adopted and those who are waiting to see how things turn out, primarily waiting because of the price of entry.

    Personally I hope gen 2 caters for the second group even though I'm probably sitting somewhere between the two (I don't have much in the way of disposable income even though I'd count myself as an enthusiast!).

    I just think gen 2 needs to concentrate on the non-adopters if it's to grow & mature so I'm going to stick with my wish for maybe a 100% increase in resolution and maybe a 20% increase in FOV... and a 0% increase in price! I'm fully aware that just about everyone here will have different figures though but we've all adopted!

    Yep I definitely fall in the middle myself due to my wage class - I consider myself a VR enthusiast in as far as I bought into the first generation and love every minute I spend in it. I also consider VR a luxury for myself - it isn't something I can spend lots of time and money on as I have other interests creatively outside of VR that take up quite a bit of my time. As a recreational tool though I find it a thousand times more fun than just standard gaming - which is my main recreational hobby.

    I would personally like a 70% boost in resolution and 30-40% increase in FOV. The reason I am all about the FOV is because I find it to be the most visually distracting issue with VR - I mean it is not terrible and is more an annoyance (my brother says he doesn't even notice it), but I dream of the day when I put a headset on and it is exactly like I have been transported to a different world and not like I am looking through a viewfinder. I think VR will get there but it is a ways off.

    I also hope they are able to keep the cost down (0% change would be ideal, but realistically I think it is more likely that there will be a couple hundred dollars in difference to what a CV1 costs right now).

    I don't see PC VR being what leads to mass adoption of VR though simply because people don't really buy PCs anymore - and though PC gaming has seen a moderate rise over the last half decade it is still well outside of the realm of console adoption.

    I think that Mobile VR will have the biggest impact on the commercial viability of VR simply based on my anecdotal experiences with people in real life. I know more non gamers than gamers - and the non-gamers I know are actually interested in VR but are turned off by the cost of entry. Most are not interested in gaming - but when I talk with people at work about my experiences in Big Screen watching movies and TV that gets most people I know excited.

    I only hope that PC VR doesn't get left behind as VR takes over - because I like the fact that I can play old games like NOLF2 or Doom that enthusiast developers have made playable in VR, and that will likely not crossover to a closed mobile driven ecosystem.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,238 Power Poster
    edited April 16
    SimonSays28 said:
    I also consider VR a luxury for myself - it isn't something I can spend lots of time and money on as I have other interests creatively outside of VR that take up quite a bit of my time. As a recreational tool though I find it a thousand times more fun than just standard gaming - which is my main recreational hobby.

    I would personally like a 70% boost in resolution and 30-40% increase in FOV.

    Currently, the increase in resolution would result in an increased cost in computational power (e.g. the PC and/or graphics card required increases).

    The trick is to keep costs low while providing quality experiences. And this is where Oculus has the biggest niche. They are not only targeting every Income category with GO, SC, and Rift; but they are also providing the quality software experiences themselves.

    Increased visuals are great, but that has to happen a bit more organically... or else the cost goes up too high and we're back to the original problem: Not enough adopters.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,039 Valuable Player
    edited April 16
    I have more games than i know what to do with, so i am not supporting bethesda at those prices for a not fully featured vr mod, even if it is good (because the 2D foundation was good but i have already paid for that)
    I'm probably in the same boat with Skyrim, am really glad it's turned out to be a great experience but I'll probably wait until a sale after buying the original at full price. Having said that, I jumped with Fallout 4 VR... just 3 days before it went on sale. Lovely.
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  • SimonSays28SimonSays28 Posts: 576
    Neo
    edited April 16
    Yep totally get that - and it is one of the reasons I bought in at the CV1, because I know my specs can handle it and I am fairly certain my rig won't stand up to the next generation without upgrading the GPU.

    Not only are they targeting various wage classes - they are targeting different player demographics with the Go and the Santa Cruz especially.

    The Go will is targeting the casual non-gamer who will likely enjoy VR for the various experiences it has to offer like virtual tourism, 3d Cinema, etc. and the Santa Cruz is going after the gaming market specifically those who do not have the means to buy into the Rift (not to say that they wouldn't).

    The gamer demographic is not to be taken lightly - but I do think the future of VR depends on getting that non-gamer market to adopt VR. Hopefully VR headsets will be as ubiquitous as headphones are one day, something that everyone has a pair of.

    If that market is taken - it will only be beneficial to the gamer market.
    I have more games than i know what to do with, so i am not supporting bethesda at those prices for a not fully featured vr mod, even if it is good (because the 2D foundation was good but i have already paid for that)
    I'm probably in the same boat with Skyrim, am really glad it's turned out to be a great experience but I'll probably wait until a sale after buying the original at full price. Having said that, I jumped with Fallout 4 VR... just 3 days before it went on sale. Lovely.
    For me it was worth it - I mean I would have rather got it on sale, but I am not going to lose sleep over it because as company Bethesda has already taken my money many times and I am used to it. I do think that it should have been priced at around half of what they are selling it for, but it didn't break my bank to buy it for the asking price - and it really does just work out the gate so I am impressed with it.

    If they truly have sold 30 thousand copies in 2 weeks - for an 8 year old game at full price, I'd definitely say that is impressive.

    I hope they fix up Fallout 4 VR for the Rift - I'd buy it in a heart beat, even considering it is my least favourite Fallout title.
    Don't feel to bad about buying it full price - it has happened to me multiple times most recently with Dishonoured Death of the Outsider.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,311 Power Poster

    @SimonSays28, I think there are 2 groups of people now, the enthusiasts who've already adopted and those who are waiting to see how things turn out, primarily waiting because of the price of entry.


    Personally I hope gen 2 caters for the second group even though I'm probably sitting somewhere between the two (I don't have much in the way of disposable income even though I'd count myself as an enthusiast!).


    I just think gen 2 needs to concentrate on the non-adopters if it's to grow & mature so I'm going to stick with my wish for maybe a 100% increase in resolution and maybe a 20% increase in FOV... and a 0% increase in price! I'm fully aware that just about everyone here will have different figures though but we've all adopted!


    I've mentioned it on here before, once Oculus release their CV2 they'll continue to manufacture and sell the CV1 for a while as a low cost entry-level VR system. It's going to come down to $299 some time this year (if not in a couple of weeks it will certainly be before Christmas) and by the time the CV2 releases next year you'll be able to pick up a CV1 for at least $249.

    Even at $299 that's impulse-buy territory for a lot of gamers.

    I can't see them continuing to sell them into 2020 though, but by that time we'll see the CV2 having price cuts too.

    And we'll see both headsets using the Constellation tracking system too, with a headset-only deal being available for less than $600.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,039 Valuable Player
    I keep forgetting that continuing to sell CV1 after CV2 release is an option. I guess it depends on logistics, manufacturing capacity of the component suppliers for both the new and legacy components... shouldn't really be an issue I suppose!
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  • vidguy_mevidguy_me Posts: 11
    NerveGear
    edited April 16
     I pretty much agree with the article.
    And Skyrim saved VR Gaming for me.
    Up until recently I've been underwhelmed by what's on offer, in terms of VR Gaming, I can only take so many wave shooters.  I'm not interested in VR Chat or any social activities, I find most multiplayer stuff uninteresting.
    Most of the games I see are small, and very Nintendo-ish to me

    Then came Skyrim in VR. A game I played a billion hours in already.
    However in VR, it's a brand new place.. instead of playing Skyrim, I'm IN SKYRIM.. living it.
    I don't care about the bugs, the glitches.. the immersion breaking menu system.

    It's the best dam VR experience I've ever had and the only thing I've been playing since release

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,238 Power Poster
    vidguy_me said:
     I pretty much agree with the article.
    And Skyrim saved VR Gaming for me.
    Up until recently I've been underwhelmed by what's on offer, in terms of VR Gaming, I can only take so many wave shooters.  I'm not interested in VR Chat or any social activities, I find most multiplayer stuff uninteresting.
    Most of the games I see are small, and very Nintendo-ish to me

    Then came Skyrim in VR. A game I played a billion hours in already.
    However in VR, it's a brand new place.. instead of playing Skyrim, I'm IN SKYRIM.. living it.
    I don't care about the bugs, the glitches.. the immersion breaking menu system.

    It's the best dam VR experience I've ever had and the only thing I've been playing since release


    Have you tried Lone Echo yet?
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  • cybernettrcybernettr Posts: 866
    3Jane
    vidguy_me said:
     I pretty much agree with the article.
    And Skyrim saved VR Gaming for me.
    Up until recently I've been underwhelmed by what's on offer, in terms of VR Gaming, I can only take so many wave shooters.  I'm not interested in VR Chat or any social activities, I find most multiplayer stuff uninteresting.
    Most of the games I see are small, and very Nintendo-ish to me

    Then came Skyrim in VR. A game I played a billion hours in already.
    However in VR, it's a brand new place.. instead of playing Skyrim, I'm IN SKYRIM.. living it.
    I don't care about the bugs, the glitches.. the immersion breaking menu system.

    It's the best dam VR experience I've ever had and the only thing I've been playing since release


    https://gizmodo.com/skyrim-vr-is-everything-wrong-with-virtual-reality-righ-1820981227
  • cybernettrcybernettr Posts: 866
    3Jane
    vidguy_me said:
     I pretty much agree with the article.
    And Skyrim saved VR Gaming for me.

    Basically what you’re saying is VR is great, it just needed the right content, and now it has it. 
     :) 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,238 Power Poster
    Here's a better Report from earlier in 2018:
    How Oculus Will Continue to Define VR in 2018

    Oculus VR has managed to remain ahead of the pack in defining what will make consumer VR a reality, and in 2018 that’s not likely to change.

    Oculus GO
    The Oculus Go stands to redefine mobile VR as an affordable all-in-one HMD

    Santa Cruz
    it’s the Santa Cruz that looks set to define high-end VR in 2018.
    [...]
    the fact that its reaching for high-end untethered VR is arguably a better alternative to wireless adapters for existing HMDs.

    Software for All
    A recent tweet from Jason Rubin, VP of Content at Oculus VR, to VRFocus stated that ‘My team has multiple Multi-million dollar Rift titles in the works, our largest investments yet.’

    However, if VR is to achieve truly mainstream appeal it needs to reach beyond videogames. Colum Slevin, Oculus VR’s head of experiences, recently stated; “We’re re-energized for 2018, working with storytellers and creators in VR to bring the best stories out and help creators and storytellers bring their best foot forward.

    “We’re continuing to get more selective about the types of projects [we support]. I’m hopeful that that seal of approval, and that special glow still comes along… but we’re definitely focused on trying to elevate the community at large, which is where the diversity of styles come in. Mainly because I don’t think there’s one way to skin this cat, I don’t think there’s one style, one tone, one technical approach that’s going to crack VR wide open. It’s going to come from a hybrid approach, from a [variety] of experiences.”


    2018 may be another year in which Oculus VR aches for success beyond that of its peers, but in reality it’s a year where the company is already light-years ahead in identifying what VR will look like over the next 12 months.

    https://www.vrfocus.com/2018/01/how-oculus-will-continue-to-define-vr-in-2018/


    :)
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,311 Power Poster
    vidguy_me said:
     I pretty much agree with the article.
    And Skyrim saved VR Gaming for me.
    Up until recently I've been underwhelmed by what's on offer, in terms of VR Gaming, I can only take so many wave shooters.  I'm not interested in VR Chat or any social activities, I find most multiplayer stuff uninteresting.
    Most of the games I see are small, and very Nintendo-ish to me

    Then came Skyrim in VR. A game I played a billion hours in already.
    However in VR, it's a brand new place.. instead of playing Skyrim, I'm IN SKYRIM.. living it.
    I don't care about the bugs, the glitches.. the immersion breaking menu system.

    It's the best dam VR experience I've ever had and the only thing I've been playing since release


    https://gizmodo.com/skyrim-vr-is-everything-wrong-with-virtual-reality-righ-1820981227

    Skyrim VR is the second best VR game available right now imo. The author of that article wasn't playing the PC VR SKU which has a few advantages compared to the PSVR SKU - better controllers, better tracking and mods.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,039 Valuable Player
    Payday today. I don't want to pay full price again for the VR version of my pancake game.... but... can I really hold off for a Skyrim VR Sale! argh I feel like one more comment of praise is going to tip me over.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,238 Power Poster
    edited April 17
    snowdog said:
    vidguy_me said:
     I pretty much agree with the article.
    And Skyrim saved VR Gaming for me.
    Up until recently I've been underwhelmed by what's on offer, in terms of VR Gaming, I can only take so many wave shooters.  I'm not interested in VR Chat or any social activities, I find most multiplayer stuff uninteresting.
    Most of the games I see are small, and very Nintendo-ish to me

    Then came Skyrim in VR. A game I played a billion hours in already.
    However in VR, it's a brand new place.. instead of playing Skyrim, I'm IN SKYRIM.. living it.
    I don't care about the bugs, the glitches.. the immersion breaking menu system.

    It's the best dam VR experience I've ever had and the only thing I've been playing since release


    https://gizmodo.com/skyrim-vr-is-everything-wrong-with-virtual-reality-righ-1820981227

    Skyrim VR is the second best VR game available right now imo. The author of that article wasn't playing the PC VR SKU which has a few advantages compared to the PSVR SKU - better controllers, better tracking and mods.

    I'm definitely happy to see so many folks enjoying Skyrim VR. And I plan to get it myself next month.

    However, if I'm being honest: I do believe that Skyrim VR does sort of illustrate a problem with PCVR. Specifically because Skyrim VR is just a port of a vanilla 2D game. In my very personal opinion, I can't help but feel like there is something wrong with the entirety of the "VR Gaming" ecosystem if, after 2 years of being mainstream, one of the "best" VR experiences is a 2D Port.

    I am a firm believer in the idea that the best VR experiences should come from those made for VR from the ground up.

    Yet if a 2D Port can achieve such high-esteem... well, we have a long road ahead of us! lol

    This is precisely why I have no interest in a Rift CV2 coming out too soon (and the same argument I make against the Vive Pro and Pimax 8K). There isn't enough going on in the VR software ecosystem to warrant throwing money at more expensive hardware. The software still has a big hill to climb.

    We need more games like Lone Echo, The Invisible Hours, Chronos, and Mages Tale. To name a few.

    And we need an Elder Scrolls game that was made for Virtual Reality, from conception!
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,127 Power Poster
    edited April 17
    Payday today. I don't want to pay full price again for the VR version of my pancake game.... but... can I really hold off for a Skyrim VR Sale! argh I feel like one more comment of praise is going to tip me over.
    I believe you can still get it for 20% off at Green Man Gaming with the code APRIL20, if that helps. 

    Edit: it looks like that promotion is over, but they’re currently listing SkyrimVR at 15% off.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,039 Valuable Player
    Thanks nalex appreciate the update... and thanks for not praising the game, that would have done it for me!
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  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 459
    Trinity
    edited April 17
    Thanks nalex appreciate the update... and thanks for not praising the game, that would have done it for me!
    It's terrible @DaftnDirect , I've wasted over 50 hours playing this awful game and reckon I'll likely waste 100's of hours more!

    Don't get it, especially with loads of mods added, it'll ruin your social life :p

    (see, I didn't praise it....)
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,039 Valuable Player
    RattyUK said:
    Thanks nalex appreciate the update... and thanks for not praising the game, that would have done it for me!
    It's terrible @DaftnDirect , I've wasted over 50 hours playing this awful game and reckon I'll likely waste 100's of hours more!

    Don't get it, especially with loads of mods added, it'll ruin your social life :p

    (see, I didn't praise it....)
    I should have stop reading after 'it's terrible', downloading now :|
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,311 Power Poster
    You won't regret it. It's the second best VR game available right now with Elite Dangerous narrowly beating it for awesomeness.

    I'm tempted to put it as my number three best game of all time tbh and put Metroid Prime down to number four :o
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,451 Valuable Player
    so the crunch..... is it more impressive (as a complete package) than lone echo?
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 459
    Trinity
    edited April 17
    so the crunch..... is it more impressive (as a complete package) than lone echo?
    That is a tough one, I have both and have enjoyed playing Lone Echo immensely.

    ...but they are chalk and cheese...   I have always been a fan of dungeon crawlers and spent many hours on the first edition of Skyrim, I did try to resist the temptation when VR came out, but alas, I am a weak mortal who revels in magic, crypts and dragons.

    SkyrimVR is the same game as the vanilla one, and that was (is) excellent for its genre, but being in the midst of the game world rather than looking into it has enhanced the gameplay, even with its less-than-immersive control system, far beyond the original.

    I'd rather put SkyrimVR and Lone Echo side by side as 'greats' in their respective genres.

    So, if you like what you have read / heard about SkyrimVR and enjoy Dungeon adventuring, and have the budget to waste on it, give it a try, then tell us your opinion.
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,451 Valuable Player
    edited April 17
    indeed i will be picking it up... but i want to get a new gpu 1st (so close to hitting the green buy button on an inno 3d x2 1080ti for £660 but i digress.

    but even then, i have so many games to play that i may wait a little while. My mate has it however so i may wangle a bit of steam sharing..... i still think it is a lot of money considering i own the core game AND its not got full VR implementation  but still....
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,311 Power Poster
    Blimey that's a great price for a 1080Ti, but you might want to wait a few months before getting one because the 11s will be out pretty soon. :D
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,451 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Blimey that's a great price for a 1080Ti, but you might want to wait a few months before getting one because the 11s will be out pretty soon. :D
    i know... i got as far as the cc payment box and realised the wife has my card to do the weekly shop.... i have found the details now but was long enough to gain some control and cancel... bugger me its hard tho, i have the proper upgrade itch now but my fear is, the gtx 1080ti is not quite where i want it to be (my gtx 980 i just blindly put 95% of monitor games up to ultra at 1080p and just go with no worries of tanking frames... i want the same from my new gpu... but at 4k.

    cards are finally coming back to somewhere close to sensible however.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • SimonSays28SimonSays28 Posts: 576
    Neo
    I do actually think there is something to be said for old games being retooled for VR - as far as gaming goes, experiencing something like Skyrim or Doom 3 in VR was somewhat of a transformative experience for me. Even older games like No One Lives Forever 2 that use traditional controls feel different in VR and it is a space I hope to see occupied by more games - I would love a true VR mod for the Dark Engine games (Thief series / System Shock 2), and more recent immersive sims would be great in VR too - even if they don't make use of full potential of VR controllers (I mean RE7 in VR is still a traditional gaming experience that requires you use the gamepad).

    That is not to say I think they are what is going to push VR ahead - and I love the native experiences that are available for VR and see great potential in them and of course an Elder Scrolls game built from the ground up to use VR would be amazing.

    But when I bought my Rift - I also bought VorpX at the same time specifically so I could play old games in VR. It was one of the bigger selling points for me and SkyrimVR kind of confirms to me that there is a demand for the bigger gameplay worlds that traditional games offer. I mean could you imagine playing Dishonoured in VR? That would be sick - especially if they paid lip service to the Touch Controllers / Wands like Skyrim does.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,311 Power Poster
    I also bought VorpX for the same reason but there have been so many great quality VR games released so far, most of which are AAA quality and funded by Facebook, that I haven't had the need to use it yet.

    I still keep meaning to play the first Bioshock and the Metro games using VorpX but I just haven't found the time yet tbh.

    I might get Resident Evil 7 and VorpX it if Capcom don't announce a PCVR version at E3 though but I certainly won't play it flat. Flat games are dead to me as far as I'm concerned.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • SimonSays28SimonSays28 Posts: 576
    Neo
    snowdog said:
    I also bought VorpX for the same reason but there have been so many great quality VR games released so far, most of which are AAA quality and funded by Facebook, that I haven't had the need to use it yet.

    I still keep meaning to play the first Bioshock and the Metro games using VorpX but I just haven't found the time yet tbh.

    I might get Resident Evil 7 and VorpX it if Capcom don't announce a PCVR version at E3 though but I certainly won't play it flat. Flat games are dead to me as far as I'm concerned.
    come on flat games are still fun - I couldn't imagine missing out on the new Underworld game or any of the immersive sims on the horizon.

    (though I do wish they were all coming out in VR) LOL
    Check out my band at http://theheavyjack3.bandcamp.com/ - our entire discography has been released for free download.

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,311 Power Poster
    Flat games just don't do it for me any more I'm afraid. I didn't even get and play the most recent Zelda game because it was a flat game, and that's REALLY saying something. :o
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
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