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*sigh* didn't like skyrim

AekeroAekero Posts: 84
Hiro Protagonist
even with recommended addons, it just looks old and flat to me, I had high hopes as I enjoyed the original game and it looked great in 2d, that and performance is surprisingly bad for the settings I was running (6600k, 1080).
Where's my long, vr adventure/rpg that was actually built for vr? I haven't even heard of one in the works, is there one?  I can only handle so many teleporting fps's and space locomotion proof of concept games. Even a quality racer that was built from the ground up for vr (I have dirt, and I tried that arm-swinging racing game), it feels like there are so many holes in genres. I get that some genres lend themselves to vr port easier, but what's to stop them from making like a flying mario kart type game? 
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  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,062
    Wintermute
    edited May 15
    There are maybe three million console and PC headsets that could play a designed-for-VR game. So no-one's going to throw $100,000,000 at the market yet.

    But, that said, Skyrim VR is the first 'AAA' game I've paid full price for in years. And that's after playing 200-300 hours of old Skyrim using VorpX to get it into VR.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,213 Valuable Player
    If I were a developer, I wouldn't make any VR games right now, the market is too small.  Anyone that could make the content you desire is concerned about their ROI.  Today more people have cell phones and tablets than PCs, so that's going to be a tough sell.  Not only does the HMD have to convince someone to buy it, it's likely it will have to convince them to buy a $500 computer and equip it with a $700 video card as well.  That's going to be a small group to sell to, and with the cost behind production I don't think most would even entertain the thought.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 10,534 Power Poster
    @Aekero - I know what you mean about the "flat" look. I talked about this a bit in the big Skyrim thread on this forum. As another user pointed out, when you're looking at a mountain far away, it doesn't really look far away.

    This is my main complaint about flat games ported to VR. Granted, back in 2016 when I was new to this version of "true immersion" VR, I was excited about anything and everything. Back then you could wrap an equirectangular JPEG of Outer Space around my head and I'd be like, "omfg I'm flying!"

    Today though, it takes more effort to ensure my complete immersion. Not much effort, but the little things like "depth" and "presence."

    When it comes to Depth and Presence, I'm not necessarily talking about hand-controllers nor full body tracking, but more in terms of the method used to bring the environment to life.

    With SkyrimVR, I actually do enjoy it - even without Mods. The lack of environmental depth isn't enough to turn me off, and I plan to put in at least 100 hours over the course of the next 12 months. However, I do understand what others are talking about when describing the flat environmental assets.
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  • nroskonrosko Posts: 546
    Trinity
    Aekero said:
    even with recommended addons, it just looks old and flat to me, I had high hopes as I enjoyed the original game and it looked great in 2d, that and performance is surprisingly bad for the settings I was running (6600k, 1080).
    Where's my long, vr adventure/rpg that was actually built for vr? I haven't even heard of one in the works, is there one?  I can only handle so many teleporting fps's and space locomotion proof of concept games. Even a quality racer that was built from the ground up for vr (I have dirt, and I tried that arm-swinging racing game), it feels like there are so many holes in genres. I get that some genres lend themselves to vr port easier, but what's to stop them from making like a flying mario kart type game? 
    Did you play Chronos? I still think that stands above many other made for VR one player titles. Like others have said though unfortunately the numbers are not there to justify development costs. Best bet is a pankake made with vr in mind. Maybe Facebook are secretly funding a huge title I just think its unlikely. 
    I surprised it's running so bad for you or looks flat but you are not the first to say so. 
  • EvileyesEvileyes Posts: 192
    Art3mis

    hahahah you're hard to please, perhaps VR isn't for you at this point in time. Come back in 2-4 years, then there should be some solid development in hardware and software.


    As for now, Skyrim VR looks and plays like a fucking dream for me. I don't understand what you guys mean about it looking flat, doesn't look flat at all, but then again im on a Vive Pro.


    Overall I would say your opinion is in a minority, 95% of people are shocked and in awe of Skyrim VR, just browse around redditt etc.. if you don't believe me, see for yourself hehe.

  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 570
    Neo
    No worries. I find games like Skyrim to be very boring and repetitive myself. To each their own I guess. 
  • TwoHedWlfTwoHedWlf Posts: 1,958 Poster of the Week
    I wouldn't say I'm shocked and awed.  It definitely does look old, but...It is old, it's a 7 year old game that's built on an engine that wasn't really that graphically exceptional even in 2011.

    But it's still pretty damn good.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,371
    3Jane

    Flying Mario kart type game? I guess your right about each to their own lol.


  • TwoHedWlfTwoHedWlf Posts: 1,958 Poster of the Week

    Flying Mario kart type game? I guess your right about each to their own lol.


    Is it wrong that sounds kinda fun?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 3,904 Power Poster
    Things looking flat when viewed up close (as opposed to mountains and stuff in the distance) is down to normal/bump maps not working in VR. They can show micro detail but things like castle/house walls and stuff with large shapes defined by bump/normal maps look flat. You can get around this by using Bump Offset.

    I've just been reworking some of my modular corridors because of this and added a few more polys. They're all still under 1000 polys though and they look much better than they did.  :)
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 109
    Art3mis
    @Aekero - I'm running the same CPU & GPU as yourself and have around 20 mods installed in SkyrimVR and have no issues with performance playing, nor does the world look particularly 'flat', accepted that the game doesn't have modern, cutting edge graphics, but is still pretty good (Lone Echo or even Robo Recall are both graphically very good but are much more modern) for a 7 year-old game.

    Sorry that you didn't find it to your liking - particularly (like many of us) already owning the original and finding that the VR version was another 'full game' purchase.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 3,904 Power Poster
    Once you mod it with 4K textures and other eye candy mods it really is awesome, albeit a bit too flat in places lol
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    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • SimonSays28SimonSays28 Posts: 534
    Neo
    edited May 15
    I understand what is meant by flat - but it doesn't really effect my immersion or experience as I find the 3d depth effect to be pretty excellent. I am not even put off by the gamey scale of the world.

    It isn't the greatest VR game of all time - it is Skyrim in VR which is just awesome even with all the inherent glitches still retained in the now 7 year old game that has been ported.

    I am new to VR - so I am still in the way to impressed by it to be completely objective stage - but I have to say I really enjoy playing the older ports when they are actually ports, gives a completely different perspective on some of my favourite games. The 3d effect is great in VR for me and if it shows some of the flatness of the old graphics I do not mind one bit.

    I definitely think there is room for both types of graphics in VR - and look forward to see more ports whether official like Skyrim or unofficial like Doom 3 or No One Lives Forever 2 in the years to come.
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  • nroskonrosko Posts: 546
    Trinity
    TwoHedWlf said:
    I wouldn't say I'm shocked and awed.  It definitely does look old, but...It is old, it's a 7 year old game that's built on an engine that wasn't really that graphically exceptional even in 2011.

    But it's still pretty damn good.
    I have about 160 mods running, i think animations look dated but they looked dated on release, textures look good but takes some work to get the mods to work together & look consistent. Polygons are a bit low even with mods. But with all this it's one of the most jaw droppingly pretty vr games out there imo.
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 856 Poster of the Week
    Zenbane said:
    @Aekero - I know what you mean about the "flat" look. I talked about this a bit in the big Skyrim thread on this forum. As another user pointed out, when you're looking at a mountain far away, it doesn't really look far away.

    This is my main complaint about flat games ported to VR. Granted, back in 2016 when I was new to this version of "true immersion" VR, I was excited about anything and everything. Back then you could wrap an equirectangular JPEG of Outer Space around my head and I'd be like, "omfg I'm flying!"

    Today though, it takes more effort to ensure my complete immersion. Not much effort, but the little things like "depth" and "presence."

    When it comes to Depth and Presence, I'm not necessarily talking about hand-controllers nor full body tracking, but more in terms of the method used to bring the environment to life.

    With SkyrimVR, I actually do enjoy it - even without Mods. The lack of environmental depth isn't enough to turn me off, and I plan to put in at least 100 hours over the course of the next 12 months. However, I do understand what others are talking about when describing the flat environmental assets.
    I know this was an issue using VorpX, but I'd heard that it was better in Skyrim4VR? what about the skybox height? (not going to read the 100's of posts in the other thread about it - that'll learn me for going away for a few weeks :tongue: )

    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • SimonSays28SimonSays28 Posts: 534
    Neo
    kzintzi said:
    I know this was an issue using VorpX, but I'd heard that it was better in Skyrim4VR? what about the skybox height? (not going to read the 100's of posts in the other thread about it - that'll learn me for going away for a few weeks :tongue: )


    It definitely looks better than VorpX - part of that is due to moving from a game pad experience to a fully interactive (at least as far as combat goes) standing experience.

    The scale is still a bit off - but just in the way that all games scale is a bit off. I find that my height and general immersion in the game environment for the most part feel right all the time.

    For me it is 100% a must have title for the Rift - any minor issues with the graphics (ones I have had with every incarnation of Skyrim like stiff animation) are outweighed by the sheer amount of content that can be played through in a VR headset.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 3,904 Power Poster
    Yup, it's the second best VR game available right now imo, narrowly beaten by the awesome Elite Dangerous. B)
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • cybernettrcybernettr Posts: 838
    3Jane
    Aekero said:
    even with recommended addons, it just looks old and flat to me, I had high hopes as I enjoyed the original game and it looked great in 2d, that and performance is surprisingly bad for the settings I was running (6600k, 1080).
    Where's my long, vr adventure/rpg that was actually built for vr? I haven't even heard of one in the works, is there one?  I can only handle so many teleporting fps's and space locomotion proof of concept games. Even a quality racer that was built from the ground up for vr (I have dirt, and I tried that arm-swinging racing game), it feels like there are so many holes in genres. I get that some genres lend themselves to vr port easier, but what's to stop them from making like a flying mario kart type game? 

    Maybe the problem is that you already burned yourself out on Skyrim years ago. The VR version is my first introduction to Skyrim and, after tweaking the settings to get the best visual quality, I am blown away by the scope and epic proportions of the game. I have a bunch of made-for-VR games that I have frankly not even gotten around to trying because I am so into Skyrim. It quickly replaced all of them and looks like one of those rare games that I will continue playing for years. I have even gone into some of the inns and had a real-world snack—yes, I have now eaten inside VR!!! I agree that VR needs more long-form open world games like Skyrim, and I think that as VR grows in popularity, that will happen. 
  • cybernettrcybernettr Posts: 838
    3Jane

    Zenbane said:
    @Aekero - I know what you mean about the "flat" look. I talked about this a bit in the big Skyrim thread on this forum. As another user pointed out, when you're looking at a mountain far away, it doesn't really look far away.

    I haven’t noticed that about the game—the stereo effect looks as good as any VR game to me. Depth is harder to detect for far away things like mountains because your eyes are only a couple inches apart, and that’s not enough to notice depth for something as big and far away as a mountain. For such things, depth is indicated in a number of different ways, such as the haziness between you and the object, and Skyrim does a good job of this. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 10,534 Power Poster
    cybernettr said:
    I haven’t noticed that about the game—the stereo effect looks as good as any VR game to me. Depth is harder to detect for far away things like mountains because your eyes are only a couple inches apart

    In games like Lone Echo, something that is far away looks far away. Not so much in SkyrimVR. There's other examples that involve mountains, such as The Climb, Mage's Tale, and Edge of Nowhere. Depth is not hard to detect at all in those games. As others have explained, it is merely the byproduct of a 2D game being ported to VR compared to something native to VR.
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  • cybernettrcybernettr Posts: 838
    3Jane

    nrosko said:

    I have about 160 mods running, i think animations look dated but they looked dated on release, textures look good but takes some work to get the mods to work together & look consistent. Polygons are a bit low even with mods. But with all this it's one of the most jaw droppingly pretty vr games out there imo.

    Is there a good tutorial on running mods on the Oculus version? Nexus Mod Manager doesn’t recognize the Oculus version without tweaking one of the files, which I tried and it still doesn’t work. Plus, as I understand it, not all the mods that work on the PC version will necessarily work on the VR version. NMM makes it easier to remove incompatible mods. Maybe I will just wait until an updated version of NMM comes out which will hopefully support Oculus. 
  • cybernettrcybernettr Posts: 838
    3Jane
    Zenbane said:

    In games like Lone Echo, something that is far away looks far away. Not so much in SkyrimVR. There's other examples that involve mountains, such as The Climb, Mage's Tale, and Edge of Nowhere. Depth is not hard to detect at all in those games. As others have explained, it is merely the byproduct of a 2D game being ported to VR compared to something native to VR.

    I won’t lie to you and claim that Skyrim has the crispness of graphics of a modern VR game like Edge of Nowhere, with its remarkable translucent ice effects and other graphical flourishes, or the impressive lighting and detail of the city at night in Robo Recall. But kill a bandit in Skyrim and then crouch down, both in-game and physically, and examine the body, or turn a weapon over in your hands and examine it—the stereo effect is fantastic.

     The bigger point is that in all VR games you’re keenly aware that you must complete the game in a predetermined fashion and that’s it. In Edge of Nowhere there’s always only one direction you can go, and Robo Recall even tells you where you must go next. In Skyrim you can go anywhere you like, any time you like, and that creates an amazing sense of realism that no made-for-VR game can match. 
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,371
    3Jane
    edited May 16
    TwoHedWlf said:

    Flying Mario kart type game? I guess your right about each to their own lol.


    Is it wrong that sounds kinda fun?
    No it does sound fun, just found it amusing Skyrim was found to be unimpressive and the final comment was why can't they create a flying Mario kart game :smile: Of course this is taken a little out of context of his whole post and he has valid points, Skyrim is far from perfect but about as good as you can hope for considering it is a 2D port from 2011. So apologies Mr OP, I was in a particular arsey mood yesterday and Skyrim is my precious.

    I find though in Skyrim sometimes,it does look a little flat and then you can enter a tavern or location and it is stunning in it's depth and feel. I guess because it was not designed for VR, that's why it is a little hit and miss (as has been said above). When I first played Skyrim after playing Fallout I was not impressed (especially with the dragon) but as you play you find these pockets of amazing.


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 10,534 Power Poster
    edited May 16
    Luciferous said:

    I find though in Skyrim sometimes,it does look a little flat and then you can enter a tavern or location and it is stunning in it's depth and feel.

    Agreed. The dungeon areas do have great depth and feel. It's the outside world that lacks depth. However, I think the fact that the game world is so beautiful itself - something the world of Skyrim is known for - that the lack of depth stands out.


    Luciferous said:
    I guess because it was not designed for VR, that's why it is a little hit and miss

    Precisely. The lack of depth in the open world isn't off-putting enough for me. I just find it worth talking about (sometimes) since it does help illustrate the difference between something designed for VR from the ground up vs a Port. But I do feel that SkyrimVR is worth the investment. At this point, I've paid full price for the game twice. And I don't regret it.
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  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 109
    Art3mis
    edited May 16
    I've already spent more than half of the hours played in the original game on SkyrimVR, restarted my character (owing to an unforseen lust for blood!) and tramped for many happy hours around Tamriel gawking like a tourist....

    Hate this game B)
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  • cybernettrcybernettr Posts: 838
    3Jane
    When I first played the game, I didn’t think there was a problem with the stereo effect, but I did think it was a little lacking in sharpness and detail (but tweaking the game’s settings helped).
  • SaffieyahSaffieyah Posts: 79
    Hiro Protagonist
    In the 21st century you would think that making graphics with extreme details was going to be easy. Some games do have great graphics though, I have to admit.  Maybe the head gears could have inserted green and red sheets to make the games feel their really appear in front of you. 
    Be moral, be ethical and live life to the maximum. 
  • nroskonrosko Posts: 546
    Trinity

    nrosko said:

    I have about 160 mods running, i think animations look dated but they looked dated on release, textures look good but takes some work to get the mods to work together & look consistent. Polygons are a bit low even with mods. But with all this it's one of the most jaw droppingly pretty vr games out there imo.

    Is there a good tutorial on running mods on the Oculus version? Nexus Mod Manager doesn’t recognize the Oculus version without tweaking one of the files, which I tried and it still doesn’t work. Plus, as I understand it, not all the mods that work on the PC version will necessarily work on the VR version. NMM makes it easier to remove incompatible mods. Maybe I will just wait until an updated version of NMM comes out which will hopefully support Oculus. 
    I followed  https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/2846 but left out the potentially problematic mods. I'm not sure of the current state of animation mods for example but i skipped them. 
    There is allot of layering in this guide but imo it gives the best result. I used nexus mod manager the advantage of using this is when you reinstall something you can choose what files overwrite specific mods. So as long as you have a good idea of the order you can still install texture mods & carefully interweave them back.   
    Now i have this in place its easy to add other mods i'd pretty much figured out how it all works.  
  • nroskonrosko Posts: 546
    Trinity
    btw nmm works fine for vr version as long as you point it at the vr version i don't recall tweaking anything. I just made sure i copied the mod list over everytime i added mods. Should all be on reddit. 
  • SimonSays28SimonSays28 Posts: 534
    Neo
    As far as distance and scale goes - you can always apply a little bit of DOF to the distant LOD.

    I personally like the cinematic effect it has in games - and usually force it on using enbseries in my ES/Fallout games on my monitor. But it is really a personal preference type of thing - I know a lot of people that absolutely hate heavy DOF on the distance LOD.

    I am not sure if there is a mod for this that works in SkyrimVR yet.



    But I don't really have an issue with the way vanilla SkyrimVR actually looks and actually find the 3D effect and 6DOF  of the port to be really effective at getting me immersed in the game world.

    Besides scale is a bit wonky anyways in almost every game anyways - I mean if you actually think about creating a 1:1 scale representation of the world it is easy to see the ridiculous amount of work it would take to pull it off. Just think about GTA V's map - which I believe is 100 square miles all in. LA is 1,302 square miles for just the city - the Greater Los Angeles area encompasses 33,954 square miles according to the google search I just did.

    I know that when I play GTA V and get immersed in it - the sense of scale kind of goes out the window and it feels like a real world. But if you look at it critically you can see the reduction in size and detail pretty immediately - and if you look around any street at the amount of detail that would be required to recreate a location especially in an open world setting, it is pretty easy to see why things are scaled down.

    VR has the challenge of immersing us in a perspective that is as 1:1 as you can get right now with our real world perspective - so it is much easier for us to notice the irregularities in scale as represented in the game world. In a VR-native experience they can adjust for this and make sure that everything looks right - I remember seeing a video or reading an interview about Obduction where the developers alluded to the scale looking fine on a flat screen and then totally out of whack when they went into VR.

    But in a port it really would not be cost effective to go back and adjust all the 3d assets to feel realistically scaled in a VR world - and I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing, I have always been aware of scale in game worlds being skewed or off and it has been fun visiting these ports from my perspective. There is something surreal about walking around in an older game world and it doesn't necessarily feel cheesy to me it feels pretty cool - it is hard to go back to the flat screen version after I have played a game in VR and I think that speaks to how cool these ports actually are in spite of them looking a little flat or skewed due to the older graphics.

    I still play a lot of flat screen games (I am almost done Far Cry 5) - but if it was available in VR that is how I would play it guaranteed.
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