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Oculus GO sales numbers? (UPDATE)

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player

    Again with the Amazon bait - as if Amazon is the only seller of the GO Unit. It think we are at 100% of the threads on this forum that talk about sales where the same person tries to intentionally derail by posting as if a single Amazon screen has anything to do with global sales of an entire product-line.




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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018

    As has been told the last 100 times this bait was provided for other Oculus hardware, like the Rift:
    • Oculus GO can be purchased directly from Oculus.com
    • Oculus GO can be purchased from BestBuy.com
    • Oculus GO can be purchased from Amazon.com

    Logic dictates that Amazon numbers alone do not mean anything about total sales.

    All this has been said before. Continuing to use Amazon to make the claim that hardware isn't selling well defies logic, and at this point is clearly a bait tactic.

    Also, the Vive is PCVR and GO is mobileVR. Comparing the 2 is apples/oranges and outside the scope of the current thread topic. So not only is it bait, but it's also intentional derailing.
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  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    How long a period of time are Amazon's top-sellers lists based on, anyways?

    Either the Vive suddenly came back from the dead for some reason, or Amazon has sold more Go's (in only a few weeks) than they ever have Vives?
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    The OP brought sales number indicators to the table, and they did so in a very positive way. Now the topic has been intentionally derailed in to console-war rhetoric by the same individual who has been doing it for some 3 years now.

    Bringing up Amazon is intentionally focusing on one market in order to once again use something as a "sniper tower against Oculus." Something that another user experienced in their Pimax Thread. Now we have to see it all over again.

    The sales number indicator provided by the LZ at the start of the thread is something that supports all 3 storefronts. Android downloads happen no matter which store was used to purchase GO.

    This is not a discussion about Vive and it would be nice to see the Mods getting more strict about intentional baiting and derailing. It's painfully obvious in this case; and that is thrice in three different threads in a very short time frame.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    Vive caught GO 32GB on Amazon. So either GO 32gb is selling bad or Vive is selling good. 

    Theirs about 20% difference between 32gb and 64gb models.

    Just saying.



    Good grief. Do you ever stop?

    Amazon.com features US sales FROM THAT SITE ONLY. It doesn't include sales from Oculus, it doesn't include sales from US retail stores and it doesn't include sales in the Far East or the rest of the world.

    Yes, the Vive is selling better than it was but that has NOTHING to do with the price of chips. You're not even comparing apples to oranges, we're not even talking about fruit here, you crazy fool lol :D
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    You bring no sales figures to the table @Zenbane. You bring the derailment because to dont except anything that doesnt suit your agenda and you want to discredit figures that don't show GO sales in a good way as you hoped.

    The chances of GO selling 2 million in 2018 are zero because relitively Vive would have to sell 1million in 6 months. Thats not going to happen either.

    But ignore Amazon what do I care.

    And this makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL lol :o:D:D:D

    Are you drunk?
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018

    I very much enjoy Amazon sales numbers when discussed in the proper context. Like any logical individual, I do not enjoy taking one small fact and blowing it up to the point of extreme exaggeration and then starting a crusade with that as my only evidence.

    CrashFu said:
    How long a period of time are Amazon's top-sellers lists based on, anyways?

    Either the Vive suddenly came back from the dead for some reason, or Amazon has sold more Go's (in only a few weeks) than they ever have Vives?

    Here is Amazon's explanation of how their "Best Sellers Rank" works, and it is not in the way that some people think it works.

    While the Amazon Best Sellers list is a good indicator of how well a product is selling overall, it doesn't always indicate how well an item is selling among other similar items. Category and subcategory best seller lists were created to highlight an item's rank in the categories or subcategories where it really stands out.

    We choose a few of the most popular subcategories in which the item has a high ranking in relation to other items in that subcategory, and showcase the item's rank on the product page. As with the main Amazon Best Sellers list, these category rankings are based on Amazon.com sales and are updated hourly.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=525376


    Since this topic has been derailed in to a "GO vs Vive" debacle, now that we can see Amazon's own explanation, we can see that it's entirely possible for Oculus GO to completely outsell the Vive despite the ranking list because they are in 2 different "subcategories." GO is actually in the "Accessories" Subcategory of VR for Amazon, and the Vive is in the "Headset" Subscategory of VR for Amazon.

    Also, GO is currently Amazon's Choice product for VR:



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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    Vive sales and GO sales are not relative based on Amazon rankings because they are in different subcategories. Amazon spells this out quite clearly.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,821 Volunteer Moderator

    Why is the Vive being mentioned in this thread?


    It seems to have been created to talk about Go sales. I assume the only person to bring up Vive sales in this thread was Atmos. How long is this behaviour going to be allowed to continue?


    I have no idea what possesses someone to continually defend non-Oculus hardware within the Oculus forum but I got tired of it a long time ago. There's no reason for it. It's pointless and only serves to antagonise forum users.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Amazon.com features US sales FROM THAT SITE ONLY. It doesn't include sales from Oculus, it doesn't include sales from US retail stores and it doesn't include sales in the Far East or the rest of the world.

    Not only that... but Oculus GO hasn't been on the market for a month yet! lol

    Oculus GO has only been on the market for 20 days as of today. Yet now this thread has been derailed in to "monthly" sales analysis against the HTC Vive even though GO is still under 1 month old.

    Today's baiting + derailing = Epic

    And it's all nonconstructive rhetoric. The entire point behind this person's mission to bring up Amazon and intentionally twist what the Top Seller Rankings even mean... is to purposefully counter-point (and essentially attack) actual Oculus consumers in this thread who are discussing positivity amongst themselves.

    If the Oculus GO sales fall short, or if the product flops entirely, then fine. Let's talk about that in a real way. But this incessant misdirection lost its humor the first 2 years.

    How long is this behaviour going to be allowed to continue?

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    I am not going to let this discussion be derailed by the usual suspects - I am going to try and continue to discuss this no matter their issues:

    It is interesting that we have no real idea of the sales expectations for OGO from internally at OVR.
    We also have no idea if this is seen as a alternative to GearVR or a complete replacement.
    All these issues factor into the support that OGO will receive in marketing and promotion.
    While the news that OVR will be adding paid DLC to the mobile store is also fascinating.

    Regarding the non-Western sales for the OGO, a inaccurate statement was attributed to a previous post that Xiaomi was only the manufacturer of the OGO (Mi VR); in reality, along with manufacturing, the operation is using its extensive China-retail arm to sell and represent the product and apps - in a joint partnership over IP.

    For me, the lack of any substantive information on sales expectations of all but one of the OVR brand (let alone numbers from HTC) are a telling indictment of the difficulty that establishing this phase of VR has run into.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    It is not logical to claim that Vive vs GO comparisons on Amazon are "relative" because Amazon themselves has made it clear that they are not:

    While the Amazon Best Sellers list is a good indicator of how well a product is selling overall, it doesn't always indicate how well an item is selling among other similar items. Category and subcategory best seller lists were created to highlight an item's rank in the categories or subcategories where it really stands out.

    We choose a few of the most popular subcategories in which the item has a high ranking in relation to other items in that subcategory, and showcase the item's rank on the product page. As with the main Amazon Best Sellers list, these category rankings are based on Amazon.com sales and are updated hourly.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=525376


    Continuously spamming the thread insisting on the exact opposite of what Amazon themselves claim is very much antagonistic.

    As for the issue with Oculus not releasing sales numbers... they are far from alone in this matter. There are many industries that do not release actual figures. Yet representatives from those industry still publicly proclaim that they are thriving.

    Oculus is a private company owned by the publicly traded Facebook. Oculus is not obligated to release sales figures since they are in fact a private entity. That's just the law.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player

    Sorry kevin you'll have to excuse me calling out bad behaviour but please don't let that stop you talking on-topic.



    No apology needed @DaftnDirect - if that is your bag, then I am not going to dictate to you. I just think that its a little bit like "feeding the dilemma", rather than just moving on. I don't pretend to be a moderator, or a champion of justice, just someone that like the discussion, and not the "mass-debating" some enter into.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,821 Volunteer Moderator
    edited May 2018

    Atmos, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT AMAZON !!

    I'm talking about you continually posting pro-Vive, pro non-Oculus, anti-Oculus comments. How difficult is this to understand?


    Edit, Kevin I have many bags, don't assume I've got a thing about arguments, I absolutely hate arguments. Almost as much as I hate someone entering my home and telling my how much better their home is, which is what this feels like. It absolutely doesn't feel like open debate as he's claiming.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    Atmos73 said:
    The agenda here is to jump on posters who post alternative indicators, thoughts, predictions, input.

    The agenda here is to discredit information that contradicts the fanboy narrative.

    If people don't want to believe Amazon so be it, but why believe anything else? They're either all good or all bad.

    Did you read the Reddit link I posted on the first page of this thread? That person's estimates are based on DOWNLOADS OF THE OCULUS GO APP. There are NO estimates based on Amazon US sales for reasons that have been made quite clear.

    The 'information' you have posted has been discredited because IT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER and is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the discussion, for reasons also made quite clear.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    I believe Amazon, especially when they say this, "While the Amazon Best Sellers list is a good indicator of how well a product is selling overall, it doesn't always indicate how well an item is selling among other similar items. Category and subcategory best seller lists were created to highlight an item's rank in the categories or subcategories where it really stands out."

    The one who doesn't want to believe Amazon is the one who keeps insisting that the Oculus GO and HTC Vive sales are relative to each other on Amazon's Best Seller list. But they are not. According to Amazon. That is a fact. According to Amazon. I believe Amazon.

    The reason that the forum was baited today with this HTC Vive on Amazon's Best Seller list is specifically and intentionally stemming from someone's need to portray the future of Oculus GO sales as falling short. They are trying to claim that GO and Vive sales are "relative" in a way that would prevent GO from selling well, since the Vive will only sell so many and apparently (due to imaginary relativity), GO is solely dependent on Vive's ability to sell.

    And while it may turn out true that GO will sell less than anticipated, nothing about Amazon's Best Seller list indicates that whatsoever.

    The fact that this is the same person who has used Amazon's Best Seller list against other Oculus products in the exact same incorrect manner (intentionally ignoring how Amazon describes the Best Seller inner workings); which is highly tiresome behavior.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,821 Volunteer Moderator
    edited May 2018

    I'll read what I chose to read.. and comment as necessary.


    Edit: thanks for the Monty Python sketch snowdog, I needed that

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  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,673 Valuable Player
    OMG gang the blocking feature of the forums is a wonderful thing.
    Thankfully it works really well for me as I don't see all the pro Vive and anti Oculus bullcrap that gets spewed on a regular basis. Last I looked this was an Oculus Go sales numbers thread. Hell last I looked this was actually an Oculus Forum.

    I am really not sure why this behavior seems to be so allowed in here, but whatever. I can say without a doubt it would never be allowed in any other forums I frequent.

    Are there no Vive forums? Now imagine how crazy it would be if there were like 50 other Vive only enthusiasts in here knocking Oculus and any product they offer in here on a regular basis. Just imagine.




    Don

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    dburne said:
    Now imagine how crazy it would be if there were like 50 other Vive only enthusiasts in here knocking Oculus and any product they offer in here on a regular basis. Just imagine.

    I call that, History. 2016 specifically. Most of them are gone now. One clearly remains. A few stragglers show up every now and then.

    ... and that is how Zenbane won the most controversial Poster of the Week Award
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,673 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    dburne said:
    Now imagine how crazy it would be if there were like 50 other Vive only enthusiasts in here knocking Oculus and any product they offer in here on a regular basis. Just imagine.

    I call that, History. 2016 specifically. Most of them are gone now. One clearly remains. A few stragglers show up every now and then.

    ... and that is how Zenbane won the most controversial Poster of the Week Award
    Ah I was a late bloomer, didn't get my Rift till Jan 2017.
    Kinda glad I missed all that though.
    Don

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  • nroskonrosko Posts: 954
    Neo
    No idea why people get there knickers in twist over Atmos73 posts. I'd don't find his vive bias any more grating than the blind oculus bias. 
    Back on subject is it possible that multiple phones are used per single unit for example in a family? 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    nrosko said:
    No idea why people get there knickers in twist over Atmos73 posts. I'd don't find his vive bias any more grating than the blind oculus bias. 
    Back on subject is it possible that multiple phones are used per single unit for example in a family? 

    I have to agree @nrosko - why one bias should be excluded over another - its the way the subject is debated, rather than the position of the poster. Like those that keep wanting to make the forum a "walled garden" negating the original tenents it was created with.

    Back on subject - I still wonder if OVR sees the OGO as a replacement to GVR? This would help understand how they see future content support - and would not involve any unsual revealing of sales data.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    dburne said:
    Ah I was a late bloomer, didn't get my Rift till Jan 2017.
    Kinda glad I missed all that though.

    It was mad fun (if you're into that sorta thing), but I'm glad that has all come and gone. Now we get to do fun stuff like host gaming sessions, focus on software reviews/recommendations, etc.

    The forum is much  more enjoyable when those who have no interest in Oculus products choose to spend their time in a more appropriate community. We do have some non-Oculus consumers here who are good forum contributors, like EvilEyes and all his SkyrimVR contributions.

    Others choose to police the forum and make sure that those of us with a vested interest in this line of products don't enjoy ourselves too much lol

    Until we have a stronger Ignore feature (where the person on your Ignore list can't post in your threads or see your posts), then it's going to be a constant battle between what we do/don't see.

    Amazon is a good storefront, and it's unfortunate that some people choose to warp the meaning of their Best Seller list in order to bait the community.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    nrosko said:
    No idea why people get there knickers in twist over Atmos73 posts. I'd don't find his vive bias any more grating than the blind oculus bias.

    "Blind" Oculus bias? Nice trolling.

    This is an Oculus forum so people tend to talk about it positively. The reason you support his trolling is because you have been on your own anti-Oculus crusade since last year:

    Fed up with the rifts poor quality display, too bright, colour banding, god rays, black smear as well as the poor tracking with touch. Anyone sold the rift & moved to Vive?    
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/48976/thinking-of-stepping-over-to-vive-anyone-here-made-that-move-regret-it/p1


    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and preferences, but people like you and Atmos intentionally remain on the Oculus forum after you've decided against Oculus products for the sole purpose of derailing and insulting.

    But in this debate, there is absolutely no bias, only common sense. Can you honestly argue that Oculus GO sales are relative to the HTC Vive sales? Because that is the point of contention; that is what you're (blindly) defending.
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  • nroskonrosko Posts: 954
    Neo
    edited May 2018
    Zenbane said:
    nrosko said:
    No idea why people get there knickers in twist over Atmos73 posts. I'd don't find his vive bias any more grating than the blind oculus bias.

    "Blind" Oculus bias? Nice trolling.

    This is an Oculus forum so people tend to talk about it positively. The reason you support his trolling is because you have been on your own anti-Oculus crusade since last year:

    Fed up with the rifts poor quality display, too bright, colour banding, god rays, black smear as well as the poor tracking with touch. Anyone sold the rift & moved to Vive?    
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/48976/thinking-of-stepping-over-to-vive-anyone-here-made-that-move-regret-it/p1


    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and preferences, but people like you and Atmos intentionally remain on the Oculus forum after you've decided against Oculus products for the sole purpose of derailing and insulting.

    But in this debate, there is absolutely no bias, only common sense. Can you honestly argue that Oculus GO sales are relative to the HTC Vive sales? Because that is the point of contention; that is what you're (blindly) defending.
    Please present some evidence of this. I support & want Oculus to do well & have no regrets on my purchase in fact i do not ever recall saying wish i had purchased a Vive.
    That does not mean i think everything on Oculus home is better than steam by default or does it cause me stress if Vive is selling better. Or that everything about the Vive is worse than Oculus.
    I do not wish an echo chamber of this forum. 
    I do not agree with everything Atmos73 says but i not see a reason for drama 'just present your counter argument' and move on or maybe just ignore it. Using the ignore feature is a bit silly though imo when we should all have the ability to ignore in the old fashioned way before the internet.  

    Again evidence please.
    We want to know how well Oculus Go is doing & if it is the popular product it hopes to be. If that Amazon sales chart was accurate then it might give an indication of how well its doing. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    nrosko said:
    Please present some evidence of this. I support & want Oculus to do well & have no regrets on my purchase in fact i do not ever recall saying wish i had purchased a Vive.

    I did provide evidence. You are the same nrosko who posted this, right?



    I'm not going to keep quoting it; you can see it just fine.

    Again, that's your right and if the Rift failed you as a product then your anger is understandable. But make no mistake, you and I have butted heads many a times because of your strong sentiment against anything that puts Oculus products in a good light. Whenever I talk about an Oculus Game that I enjoy, instead of addressing the topic you'll instantly get personal with either myself (e.g. calling me a "shill") or the community in general (like calling everyone a "blind" fanboy in this thread).

    nrosko said:
    We want to know how well Oculus Go is doing & if it is the popular product it hopes to be. If that Amazon sales chart was accurate then it might give an indication of how well its doing. 

    You aren't answering the question though. Do you believe that HTC Vive sales on Amazon are relative to the Oculus GO sales? Do you believe that Oculus GO sales are limited to HTC Vive sales due to their "relativity?"

    Because that's what you're defending in this thread.
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    Hey boys and girls, I'm off on holidays until the end of May, so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, keep it civil, heated debates are fine just don't name call each other or be unkind to others. :) Ill sleep better.
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    Be kind to one another :)
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    Enjoy yourself, LZ!

    It seems that everyone in this discussion could tell when our heated debate started getting too close to that "off the rails" mark. I was pleasantly surprised to see all of us "usual suspects" pulling back once we got too close to that line.

    Thanks for the leniency on letting everyone express concerns/views! Just another day on the world's best VR Forum.
    <3
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