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Oculus GO sales numbers? (UPDATE)

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    Hey boys and girls, I'm off on holidays until the end of May, so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, keep it civil, heated debates are fine just don't name call each other or be unkind to others. :) Ill sleep better.

    Hmmmm...while the cat is away!!! :p

    Yes, I just name called you a cat. Pleasedon'tbanmepleasedon'tbanme B)
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  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,901 Valuable Player
    I'm surprised it's so popular.  I would never buy one, it's like a baby's toy compared to the rift when it comes to gaming.  Is the selling feature it's media capabilities with the better screens?  I'd like it as a media device if the screens are a lot better than rift, but I hate having a box strapped to my face to watch media so I'd probably never use it.  I tried it on Rift and it felt uncomfortable to me.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    falken76 said:
    I'm surprised it's so popular.  I would never buy one, it's like a baby's toy compared to the rift when it comes to gaming.  Is the selling feature it's media capabilities with the better screens?  I'd like it as a media device if the screens are a lot better than rift, but I hate having a box strapped to my face to watch media so I'd probably never use it.  I tried it on Rift and it felt uncomfortable to me.


    Yup. I see it as primarily a media device myself. If I'm remembering correctly the Xiaomi Mi Store is chock full of media stuff in the Far East.

    I'm not interested in getting one either because gaming is the main priority for me personally, although I do watch the footy and films in the virtual cinema in Virtual Desktop quite a lot.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    falken76 said:
    I'm surprised it's so popular.  I would never buy one, it's like a baby's toy compared to the rift when it comes to gaming.

    A smart phone is a babies toy compared to a PC. Do you have both a PC and a smart phone?

    GO is a VR Device, and VR is more than just a gaming platform. GO does really well in this regard. Plenty of articles online showcasing the value of MobileVR outside the realm of gaming.
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    edited May 2018
    Zenbane said:
    falken76 said:
    I'm surprised it's so popular.  I would never buy one, it's like a baby's toy compared to the rift when it comes to gaming.

    A smart phone is a babies toy compared to a PC. Do you have both a PC and a smart phone?

    GO is a VR Device, and VR is more than just a gaming platform. GO does really well in this regard. Plenty of articles online showcasing the value of MobileVR outside the realm of gaming.
    I'm taking mine with me for the long plane journey, I have found myself playing the GO more during weekdays rather than the Rift, I can just chillax and get comfy in bed and play something casual, rather than strapping in Ready Player One style into the Rift. GO is soooooo comfortable compared to the Rift especially for people with large heads like mine, the Rift is too tight on my temples for longer VR sessions, the GO's foam face interface is like a cloud hugging you, and the visual clarity makes it perfect for watching videos.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    Nice, LZ.

    All GO owners should check out this video for great travel gear, including getting 14 hours of additional playtime.




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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    .....
    Yup. I see it as primarily a media device myself. If I'm remembering correctly the Xiaomi Mi Store is chock full of media stuff in the Far East.

    I'm not interested in getting one either because gaming is the main priority for me personally, although I do watch the footy and films in the virtual cinema in Virtual Desktop quite a lot.

    Yes, you memory is correct. The Far East approach seems to focus on the media side.
    I have to agree that after longer evaluation, the limitations as well as the benefits of the OGO seem to point to it as a premier immersive video/media player - with a limited interactive VR component.

    Again, the question of where it sits between those that have already acquired a GVR, and those looking to break into high quality VR that may think this a solution - have yet to be answered. Christmas will be fun.

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  • nroskonrosko Posts: 954
    Neo
    Zenbane said:
    nrosko said:
    Please present some evidence of this. I support & want Oculus to do well & have no regrets on my purchase in fact i do not ever recall saying wish i had purchased a Vive.

    I did provide evidence. You are the same nrosko who posted this, right?



    I'm not going to keep quoting it; you can see it just fine.

    Again, that's your right and if the Rift failed you as a product then your anger is understandable. But make no mistake, you and I have butted heads many a times because of your strong sentiment against anything that puts Oculus products in a good light. Whenever I talk about an Oculus Game that I enjoy, instead of addressing the topic you'll instantly get personal with either myself (e.g. calling me a "shill") or the community in general (like calling everyone a "blind" fanboy in this thread).

    nrosko said:
    We want to know how well Oculus Go is doing & if it is the popular product it hopes to be. If that Amazon sales chart was accurate then it might give an indication of how well its doing. 

    You aren't answering the question though. Do you believe that HTC Vive sales on Amazon are relative to the Oculus GO sales? Do you believe that Oculus GO sales are limited to HTC Vive sales due to their "relativity?"

    Because that's what you're defending in this thread.
    How is a post of me asking if anyone regretted selling an Oculus for a Vive proof of being on an anti Oculus crusade for over a year? That was posted when Touch was released i do believe & it had various tracking issues on release, I was fed up & frustrated with all the issues & having to return the rift twice. Most issued where resolved apart from the colour banding & black smear which is still my biggest frustration with the product & apparently Vive didn't have the banding issues & god rays are not as bad. I wondered if you even bothered to read the whole thread you linked b4 your hyperbolic accusations. 
    Again please post evidence of where i have strong sentiments againsts anything that puts Oculus in a good light. Also again where I have accused everyone of being a blind fanboy itt? And i guess i'm not the only one who thinks you are an Oculus employee https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/51875/zenbane-palmer-luckey/p1 :D  

    I'm not defending his statement again with the strawman, i'm asking why people are getting so upset over it & being somewhat hostile towards him. I personally can't answer whether the sales relative as i don't know how the Amazon charts works hence me saying 'if' the sales charts accurate. I frankly don't really care it's just a bit of interesting info to me.

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    nrosko said:
    .....
    Again please post evidence of where i have strong sentiments againsts anything that puts Oculus in a good light. Also again where I have accused everyone of being a blind fanboy itt? And i guess i'm not the only one who thinks you are an Oculus employee https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/51875/zenbane-palmer-luckey/p1 :D  

    I'm not defending his statement again with the strawman, i'm asking why people are getting so upset over it & being somewhat hostile towards him. I personally can't answer whether the sales relative as i don't know how the Amazon charts works hence me saying 'if' the sales charts accurate. I frankly don't really care it's just a bit of interesting info to me.


    Look @nrosko - I understand your frustration and perplexity with the comments.
    I would advise that you do not let yourself get baited into a long and pointless diatribe with those trying to pull you in.
    There have been many complaints and pure frustration with the positing style and its best to just ignore and move on - we expect to see some changes in the moderation style when the vacations are over, so its best not to get pulled down. Let's not allow this to become a personality contest - let's get back on topic.

    Returning to the subject - how will the OGO impact the GVR scene - is it a companion or a replacement?

    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    nrosko said:

    How is a post of me asking if anyone regretted selling an Oculus for a Vive proof of being on an anti Oculus crusade for over a year?


    Is that really all your post says? Do I need to circle the parts you keep intentionally ignoring?

    That post alone isn't proof, I talked about other evidence, but I'm not going to start quoting everything since anytime I do that to someone it does come across as a personal attack. Besides, it doesn't seem that quoting you does any good since you keep pretending that the stuff being quoted doesn't exist.


    nrosko said:
    And i guess i'm not the only one who thinks you are an Oculus employee 
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/51875/zenbane-palmer-luckey/p1

    Don't get too excited. That's my buddy @elboffor and he does that on purpose because he knows how much I dislike Palmer. elboffor is also on my personal Facebook friend's list; so don't think you found someone who actually believes I am on the Oculus payroll
    :D


    nrosko said:
    I'm not defending his statement again with the strawman, i'm asking why people are getting so upset over it & being somewhat hostile towards him.

    You most certainly did defend his statement when you entered this thread with the following:
    No idea why people get there knickers in twist over Atmos73 posts. I'd don't find his vive bias any more grating than the blind oculus bias.

    You are blatantly referring to his using of the Amazon Top Seller list as "the same vive bias as the blind oculus bias." And in that sense, you are defending his argument that GO sales can't sell in the millions because... according to a wrong interpretation of Amazon's Top Seller inner workings, GO sales are relative to Vive sales.

    Why are people upset? Well because Atmos has repeatedly used Amazon as a weapon against the forum by intentionally portraying Amazon sales as an "accurate all encompassing" sales figure for Oculus. Every time he does it, multiple Oculus consumers try to provide a counter-argument that reminds him that Oculus sales take place on multiple storefronts, including Best Buy and Oculus.com. Yet he intentionally ignores all of that and instead jumps to new threads to start the debacle all over again.

    Furthermore, Atmos intentionally turned the conversation in to a "GO vs Vive" debate which most certainly has nothing to do with this topic. It's beyond Apples-to-Oranges and a blatant topic derail.

    People are tired of being intentionally ignored and baited with monotonous rhetoric. And now you are trying to pretend that you don't understand the issue, and you won't even address it directly after I've asked you repeatedly. Probably because you know his argument makes no sense and want to avoid saying it out loud lol

    I'll ask again to see how often you'll keep avoiding it:

    Do you agree that on a global scale, regardless of the store being used, that Oculus GO sales are limited to HTC Vive sales due to 'relativity'?


    I personally can't answer whether the sales relative as i don't know how the Amazon charts works


    Then how do you know that the bias is the same as the "blind" Oculus bias? In fact, how can you know which bias is blind and which is more grounded in facts? LZ started this thread with a bias that is grounded in facts (actual Android download figures). Those figures include all storefronts that sell GO.


    Atmos tried to counter with a single store, which intentionally ignores all other stores. And he also intentionally misrepresented how Amazon's chart works. You claim to not know, yet it has been quoted repeatedly in this thread. I'll gladly post it again:


    While the Amazon Best Sellers list is a good indicator of how well a product is selling overall, it doesn't always indicate how well an item is selling among other similar items. Category and subcategory best seller lists were created to highlight an item's rank in the categories or subcategories where it really stands out.

    We choose a few of the most popular subcategories in which the item has a high ranking in relation to other items in that subcategory, and showcase the item's rank on the product page. As with the main Amazon Best Sellers list, these category rankings are based on Amazon.com sales and are updated hourly.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=525376


    Do you think that any sale indicators on Amazon are a strong indicator of how sales are doing with other stores?

    B)
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  • elbofforelboffor Posts: 2,572 Valuable Player
    This again!
    If you want to see who zenbane really is some small detective work does wonders.

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    There are many others like it, but this is mine.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:

    Look @nrosko - I understand your frustration and perplexity with the comments.
    I would advise that you do not let yourself get baited into a long and pointless diatribe with those trying to pull you in.
    There have been many complaints and pure frustration with the positing style and its best to just ignore and move on - we expect to see some changes in the moderation style when the vacations are over, so its best not to get pulled down. Let's not allow this to become a personality contest - let's get back on topic.

    Returning to the subject - how will the OGO impact the GVR scene - is it a companion or a replacement?


    nrosko entered this thread and immediately used the phrase "blind oculus bias" which you were very quick to agree with. This is the 2nd or 3rd time in this thread that you have intentionally baited me using your indirect style of attack (you mention  me every chance you get without typing my name).

    Yes one moderator has talked about being more strict, but just as you have talked to the Mods behind the scenes about me, I have also explained to them and many other forums members that your bait tactics are also a source of the problem. Everyone sees it and is fully aware.

    I consider it intentional baiting for you to accuse me of trying to "pull nrosko down" when he is the one that came in to this thread using negative rhetoric. You seem to have no problem trying to "pull me down" in to an off-topic debate with your repeated attempts to attack me indirectly in this thread.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    elboffor said:
    This again!
    If you want to see who zenbane really is some small detective work does wonders.

    facebook.com/zenbane

    Personality or topic?
    I favour retruning to the topic and avoiding further derailment.
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    I also favor returning to the topic, especially by those who actually own the Oculus GO product. Since that is what this topic is about.

    The derailing has taken place the moment non-Oculus GO owners entered to try to ridicule the otherwise positive dialogue that was taking place.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    elboffor said:
    This again!
    If you want to see who zenbane really is some small detective work does wonders.

    facebook.com/zenbane

    Personality or topic?
    I favour retruning to the topic and avoiding further derailment.

    Nah...I favour further derailment cos LZ is on holiday. And I am a rebel that is unbannable considering I own Facebook and these forums in the first place.

    M Zuckerberg, biatches.

     B) 

    And I can see my Oculus Go replacing the Samsung Gear VR. I can't see Samsung releasing another one now that the Go is out and available.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    snowdog said:
    ....
    Nah...I favour further derailment cos LZ is on holiday. And I am a rebel that is unbannable considering I own Facebook and these forums in the first place.

    M Zuckerberg, biatches.

     B) 

    And I can see my Oculus Go replacing the Samsung Gear VR. I can't see Samsung releasing another one now that the Go is out and available.

    ha, ha - such a joker @snowdog.

    But seriously, Samsung did release only recently a new GearVR to take their new larger phone - so there seems to be a president. I would wonder with some 3m+ GVR's rumored to be in the market would be surprised if a corporation would just walk away from that installed base, unless they have no interest to continue the partnership with OVR... for whatever reason?


    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • dburnedburne Posts: 3,673 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    I also favor returning to the topic, especially by those who actually own the Oculus GO product. Since that is what this topic is about.

    No kidding wouldn't that be nice.
    Don

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    Rift owners get a free pass, for the obvious superior judgement-call ability.

    Regardless, I'm sure dburne would be happy to avoid an Oculus GO discussion about sales. His participation in this thread is a very well-received and welcomed response to the obvious derailing.

    The community needs more members speaking out against the intentional and ongoing trolling/baiting.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,654 Valuable Player
    He did say 'especially'. Meaning not necessarily EVERYBODY.

    I do not have a problem with you not owning a Rift or a Go, nor does anybody else. The problem we all have with you is your constant trolling/baiting and anti-Oculus agenda.

    I mean, seriously, bringing up Amazon sales comparing the Oculus Go and HTC Vive positions was spectacularly bad, even for you. As I mentioned, it's not even apples and oranges but apples and something else that doesn't even closely resemble a fruit of any kind lol
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,529 Volunteer Moderator
    kevinw729 said:.

    ha, ha - such a joker @snowdog.

    But seriously, Samsung did release only recently a new GearVR to take their new larger phone - so there seems to be a president. I would wonder with some 3m+ GVR's rumored to be in the market would be surprised if a corporation would just walk away from that installed base, unless they have no interest to continue the partnership with OVR... for whatever reason?

    Now don’t go bringing politics into this!  ;)
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    kevinw729 said:.

    ha, ha - such a joker @snowdog.

    But seriously, Samsung did release only recently a new GearVR to take their new larger phone - so there seems to be a president. I would wonder with some 3m+ GVR's rumored to be in the market would be surprised if a corporation would just walk away from that installed base, unless they have no interest to continue the partnership with OVR... for whatever reason?

    Now don’t go bringing politics into this!  ;)
    Ha! correceted - thanks.
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    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    snowdog said:
    He did say 'especially'. Meaning not necessarily EVERYBODY.

    I do not have a problem with you not owning a Rift or a Go

    I should probably clarify my position on that since it was brought up in this thread (by someone else) earlier, and I mentioned it afterwards lol

    I'll put my explanation in a Spoiler tag to avoid further derailment.

    When I first received my Rift in April 2016, I expected to arrive at a Private Forum. The Rift itself is a gateway to a private environment. The Oculus Friends list does not extend beyond any non-Oculus Products. You can't link your OH Friends list to your Steam Friends List, for example.

    Oculus gave the impression that Rift owners are part of an exclusive club, and I welcomed that. If I wanted an open air flea market experience, I would have gone Vive and Steam. But that appeals to me not at all.

    When I arrived here, not only was I surprised to find such an open environment on the "official" forum of a closed system, but I was shocked to see how many of the Interweb's trolls were allowed to just hang out here and poop on your doorstep.

    In both my personal and professional opinion, the forum gave a bad first impression for a first gen consumer product of an emerging technology. The forum's tone and demeanor did not match the sophistication of the Rift and its Exclusive closed environment.

    As time went on, my desire to see this forum become "exclusive" grew moreso due to the ongoing trolling from those who can't be bothered to invest in the same product line as the rest of us. Instead of spending $200 on Oculus GO, they would rather make 200 posts about how this community is clueless of what true quality VR entails. Instead of spending $400 on a Rift, they would rather make 400 posts about how the Rift is inferior and all things Oculus are doomed to fail.

    Considering the amount of time and money that both Facebook and Oculus require from consumers of their hardware and software in this volatile market, I do believe that it is their responsibility to provide just as much of an "exclusive" experience on their official forum as they do when we wear a Rift or GO.

    Or maybe I'm just being high maintenance. Whatevs
    <3


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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    Becoming a new artform in Japan:


    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,821 Volunteer Moderator
    kevinw729 said:
    Becoming a new artform in Japan:


    Like it, I noticed in the pic on the train earlier, one of them had a shiny yellow wrap.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,241 Valuable Player
    DaftnDirect said:
    ......
    Like it, I noticed in the pic on the train earlier, one of them had a shiny yellow wrap.

    Noticed that too - seems a real missed opportunity for customization, but it seems that the OGO launch has been low key, with no real peripherals or other merch (at this time) - as if they wanted to play it cool to start with. Or this is as some people call it a new direction after GVR.
    urdgfqqehbbb.png
    ** Second New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    Back on Topic,

    Here's an article that uses the same numbers as LZ (Android) and concludes between 100k and 200k for Oculus GO sales. This is far more accurate using realistic indicators.

    Note that the article still puts the sales numbers in a bad light, and compares it to something far more realistic than warping the meaning behind Amazon's Best Sellers list.

    To set up Oculus Go, you use the companion app on your iPhone or Android phone...  The Oculus Go app for Android is currently in the 50K - 100K downloads category... So taking the 50K-100K number for Android and doubling it to account for iPhone, we get 100K - 200K Go's sold already.

    Less than 200,000 is not nothing, but it's lagging from the initial forecast from top industry analyst SuperData, which predicted 1.81 million units sold for 2018. Hardware sales are typically strongest in the first few weeks and then remain flat until the holidays -- so Oculus Go's holiday season will need to see a miraculous sales spike, to meet that forecast.

    By point of contrast, here's what sales of highly desired consumer hardware products focused on delivering 3D interactive content looks like:
        •    Nintendo Switch sales, first month on the market: 2.74 million units
        •    Nintendo Switch sales, first nine months on the market: 10 million units
        •    Xbox One sales, first 10 months on the market: 7 million units
        •    Playstation 4 sales, first 11 months on the market: 13.5 million units


    I would like to point out that my own prediction of GO selling 2-million units by the end of 2018 was pure guesswork, and I think it's pretty cool that SuperData came up with a similar estimate, at 1.8 million.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,821 Volunteer Moderator
    edited May 2018
    kevinw729 said:
    DaftnDirect said:
    ......
    Like it, I noticed in the pic on the train earlier, one of them had a shiny yellow wrap.

    Noticed that too - seems a real missed opportunity for customization, but it seems that the OGO launch has been low key, with no real peripherals or other merch (at this time) - as if they wanted to play it cool to start with. Or this is as some people call it a new direction after GVR.


    mmm I've always thought that low key product launches tend to encourage critical favour. Something to do with human nature encouraging the withdrawn individual with hidden talents.


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  • nroskonrosko Posts: 954
    Neo
    Zenbane said:
    nrosko said:

    How is a post of me asking if anyone regretted selling an Oculus for a Vive proof of being on an anti Oculus crusade for over a year?


    Is that really all your post says? Do I need to circle the parts you keep intentionally ignoring?

    That post alone isn't proof, I talked about other evidence, but I'm not going to start quoting everything since anytime I do that to someone it does come across as a personal attack. Besides, it doesn't seem that quoting you does any good since you keep pretending that the stuff being quoted doesn't exist.


    nrosko said:
    And i guess i'm not the only one who thinks you are an Oculus employee 
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/51875/zenbane-palmer-luckey/p1

    Don't get too excited. That's my buddy @elboffor and he does that on purpose because he knows how much I dislike Palmer. elboffor is also on my personal Facebook friend's list; so don't think you found someone who actually believes I am on the Oculus payroll
    :D


    nrosko said:
    I'm not defending his statement again with the strawman, i'm asking why people are getting so upset over it & being somewhat hostile towards him.

    You most certainly did defend his statement when you entered this thread with the following:
    No idea why people get there knickers in twist over Atmos73 posts. I'd don't find his vive bias any more grating than the blind oculus bias.

    You are blatantly referring to his using of the Amazon Top Seller list as "the same vive bias as the blind oculus bias." And in that sense, you are defending his argument that GO sales can't sell in the millions because... according to a wrong interpretation of Amazon's Top Seller inner workings, GO sales are relative to Vive sales.

    Why are people upset? Well because Atmos has repeatedly used Amazon as a weapon against the forum by intentionally portraying Amazon sales as an "accurate all encompassing" sales figure for Oculus. Every time he does it, multiple Oculus consumers try to provide a counter-argument that reminds him that Oculus sales take place on multiple storefronts, including Best Buy and Oculus.com. Yet he intentionally ignores all of that and instead jumps to new threads to start the debacle all over again.

    Furthermore, Atmos intentionally turned the conversation in to a "GO vs Vive" debate which most certainly has nothing to do with this topic. It's beyond Apples-to-Oranges and a blatant topic derail.

    People are tired of being intentionally ignored and baited with monotonous rhetoric. And now you are trying to pretend that you don't understand the issue, and you won't even address it directly after I've asked you repeatedly. Probably because you know his argument makes no sense and want to avoid saying it out loud lol

    I'll ask again to see how often you'll keep avoiding it:

    Do you agree that on a global scale, regardless of the store being used, that Oculus GO sales are limited to HTC Vive sales due to 'relativity'?


    I personally can't answer whether the sales relative as i don't know how the Amazon charts works


    Then how do you know that the bias is the same as the "blind" Oculus bias? In fact, how can you know which bias is blind and which is more grounded in facts? LZ started this thread with a bias that is grounded in facts (actual Android download figures). Those figures include all storefronts that sell GO.


    Atmos tried to counter with a single store, which intentionally ignores all other stores. And he also intentionally misrepresented how Amazon's chart works. You claim to not know, yet it has been quoted repeatedly in this thread. I'll gladly post it again:


    While the Amazon Best Sellers list is a good indicator of how well a product is selling overall, it doesn't always indicate how well an item is selling among other similar items. Category and subcategory best seller lists were created to highlight an item's rank in the categories or subcategories where it really stands out.

    We choose a few of the most popular subcategories in which the item has a high ranking in relation to other items in that subcategory, and showcase the item's rank on the product page. As with the main Amazon Best Sellers list, these category rankings are based on Amazon.com sales and are updated hourly.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=525376


    Do you think that any sale indicators on Amazon are a strong indicator of how sales are doing with other stores?

    B)

    Zenbane said:
    nrosko said:

    How is a post of me asking if anyone regretted selling an Oculus for a Vive proof of being on an anti Oculus crusade for over a year?


    Is that really all your post says? Do I need to circle the parts you keep intentionally ignoring?

    That post alone isn't proof, I talked about other evidence, but I'm not going to start quoting everything since anytime I do that to someone it does come across as a personal attack. Besides, it doesn't seem that quoting you does any good since you keep pretending that the stuff being quoted doesn't exist.


    nrosko said:
    And i guess i'm not the only one who thinks you are an Oculus employee 
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/51875/zenbane-palmer-luckey/p1

    Don't get too excited. That's my buddy @elboffor and he does that on purpose because he knows how much I dislike Palmer. elboffor is also on my personal Facebook friend's list; so don't think you found someone who actually believes I am on the Oculus payroll
    :D


    nrosko said:
    I'm not defending his statement again with the strawman, i'm asking why people are getting so upset over it & being somewhat hostile towards him.

    You most certainly did defend his statement when you entered this thread with the following:
    No idea why people get there knickers in twist over Atmos73 posts. I'd don't find his vive bias any more grating than the blind oculus bias.

    You are blatantly referring to his using of the Amazon Top Seller list as "the same vive bias as the blind oculus bias." And in that sense, you are defending his argument that GO sales can't sell in the millions because... according to a wrong interpretation of Amazon's Top Seller inner workings, GO sales are relative to Vive sales.

    Why are people upset? Well because Atmos has repeatedly used Amazon as a weapon against the forum by intentionally portraying Amazon sales as an "accurate all encompassing" sales figure for Oculus. Every time he does it, multiple Oculus consumers try to provide a counter-argument that reminds him that Oculus sales take place on multiple storefronts, including Best Buy and Oculus.com. Yet he intentionally ignores all of that and instead jumps to new threads to start the debacle all over again.

    Furthermore, Atmos intentionally turned the conversation in to a "GO vs Vive" debate which most certainly has nothing to do with this topic. It's beyond Apples-to-Oranges and a blatant topic derail.

    People are tired of being intentionally ignored and baited with monotonous rhetoric. And now you are trying to pretend that you don't understand the issue, and you won't even address it directly after I've asked you repeatedly. Probably because you know his argument makes no sense and want to avoid saying it out loud lol

    I'll ask again to see how often you'll keep avoiding it:

    Do you agree that on a global scale, regardless of the store being used, that Oculus GO sales are limited to HTC Vive sales due to 'relativity'?


    I personally can't answer whether the sales relative as i don't know how the Amazon charts works


    Then how do you know that the bias is the same as the "blind" Oculus bias? In fact, how can you know which bias is blind and which is more grounded in facts? LZ started this thread with a bias that is grounded in facts (actual Android download figures). Those figures include all storefronts that sell GO.


    Atmos tried to counter with a single store, which intentionally ignores all other stores. And he also intentionally misrepresented how Amazon's chart works. You claim to not know, yet it has been quoted repeatedly in this thread. I'll gladly post it again:


    While the Amazon Best Sellers list is a good indicator of how well a product is selling overall, it doesn't always indicate how well an item is selling among other similar items. Category and subcategory best seller lists were created to highlight an item's rank in the categories or subcategories where it really stands out.

    We choose a few of the most popular subcategories in which the item has a high ranking in relation to other items in that subcategory, and showcase the item's rank on the product page. As with the main Amazon Best Sellers list, these category rankings are based on Amazon.com sales and are updated hourly.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=525376


    Do you think that any sale indicators on Amazon are a strong indicator of how sales are doing with other stores?

    B)
    Can you please circle the parts i have intentionally ignored.  

    The post in summary is had/having a lot of hardware issues & looking options to sell it for Vive & asking for opinions on if any one else made mistake doing this. I then go on to describe what my issues are. Kinda funny that you seem so offended by this.
    Your vindictive interpretation of that is that of your own imagination.
    I'm actually starting to think you may in fact be an AI zenbot on here judging by your nonsensical reasoning.
    How you have managed to interpret me saying his bias isn't any more grating than the Oculus bias in this forum is apparently defending a specific statement he has made is one only an AI bot like yourself can explain.
    I would maybe try pressing reset and processing this thread again.
    I personally like to hear from both sides that does not mean i agree with what they are saying.
    Regarding shitposting, you pretty much do the same things he does but for anything that's positive for anything Vive related including Steam only games. I guess Lucky programmed you himself for that. 

    The very fact that you seem oblivious to your own blatant Oculus bias is some pretty funny shit.

    Ok so the question you keep insisting i agree with Atmos73 despite me never agreeing that he is right & repeatedly asking the same thing despite giving you several answers that i just don't know or care. Just for you & to avoid your systems to crash i will put some effort in.

    Zenbot: Do you agree that on a global scale, regardless of the store being used, that Oculus GO sales are limited to HTC Vive sales due to 'relativity'? Me I don't understand your question does not compute. I do not agree with Atmos73s idea you can work out the number of sales total. But the charts are interesting to me regarding US sales because Amazon is a big store & thus a sizable sample. I would expect that if the GO is to be a success in the US that it should be at the top.

    Zenbot: Do you think that any sale indicators on Amazon are a strong indicator of how sales are doing with other stores? Me Sale indicators on Amazon (which i assume are weekly sales)are just that & obviously they are only an indication of how its doing in the store.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,476 Valuable Player
    nrosko said:
     I then go on to describe what my issues are. Kinda funny that you seem so offended by this.

    I don't think you've ever offended me, hard as you may try. I'm simply pointing out the obvious way you communicate your issues, as it is very much 'relative' to why you tend to hold other troll/bait posts in such high esteem, and refer to calm sensible posts that speak positive of Oculus products/services so lowly (e.g. calling it 'blind bias).

    nrosko said:
    Zenbot: Do you agree that on a global scale, regardless of the store being used, that Oculus GO sales are limited to HTC Vive sales due to 'relativity'? Me I don't understand your question does not compute. I do not agree with Atmos73s idea you can work out the number of sales total. But the charts are interesting to me regarding US sales because Amazon is a big store & thus a sizable sample. I would expect that if the GO is to be a success in the US that it should be at the top.

    Zenbot: Do you think that any sale indicators on Amazon are a strong indicator of how sales are doing with other stores? Me Sale indicators on Amazon (which i assume are weekly sales)are just that & obviously they are only an indication of how its doing in the store.


    Your answer indicates that you do not agree with Atmos in these two areas:
    • You do not agree with the idea behind using Amazon sales numbers to determine a total. In fact, you said that the mere question "does not compute."
    • You do not agree that sales indicators on Amazon extend beyond Amazon in whatever capacity their "Top Sellers" are determined.

    I agree with both of those assertions. Notice though how you chose to call me "Zenbot" in your answering. I get it, though. It's because I kept asking the question, right? It annoyed you enough for you to want to call me "Zenbot."

    And that, my friend, addresses your main concern:
    No idea why people get there knickers in twist over Atmos73 posts.

    If you got your own knickers in a twist over me asking you a question 3 times in one thread, then surely you can imagine how your knickers would feel if I kept asking that question for years at a time, in every thread I could. You just got a small taste of why people are so frustrated with Atmos. Take what I did to cause you to want to start namecalling me, and multiply it by 1000.

    When you say that the question itself "does not compute," that is why people like snowdog thought Atmos was drunk to even present such a thing. Worse yet... the entire derail has happened before, with the same "does not compute" approach. That's the source of frustration.

    Glad we could reach these answers together.


    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
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