Well We Can All Wave Goodbye To Horror Games And Games With Decent Melee Combat Now — Oculus
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Well We Can All Wave Goodbye To Horror Games And Games With Decent Melee Combat Now

snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,741 Valuable Player
Oculus have just emailed with regards to a new content policy and it's ridiculous. Details here:

https://developer.oculus.com/distribute/latest/concepts/publish-content-guidelines/

"

Content Guidelines

Here are some basic content standards that we apply to all apps and games. The following is not accepted in the Oculus Store:

  • Pornography, including content for the purpose of sexual gratification.
  • Excessively violent content (including but not limited to: torture, rape, child abuse, animal abuse, cannibalism, glorification of gore, and dismemberment).
  • Hate speech, bullying, molestation, or harassment.
  • Real-money gambling.
  • Applications directed to children or users under the age of 13.


So if you're wanting to play a horror game or game with melee combat you won't see any dismemberment. Fucking ridiculous.

I can see horror game developers in particular abandoning the Oculus Store in favour of Steam if you can't have a few severed limbs here and there. And that's going to be a disaster for all Rift owners because we know how much of a clusterfuck SteamVR is for Rift owners since the Rift launched.

Dismemberment has been a part of video games since the 80s ffs.
"This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
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Comments

  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,790 Valuable Player
    What were the old guidelines?  Much different?

    I find it hard to believe you can’t have limbs being blown off in a pc game.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,790 Valuable Player
    What the hell is pepe the frog?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,741 Valuable Player
    Well they say after that copy pasta I've done that stuff found in R rated films should be fine but being a Brit I have no idea what the equivalent is over here. I'm guessing an 18 certificate? You can have dismemberment in 18 rated films without a problem but if they've singled out dismemberment as a no-no in that list I'm guessing you can't have that in your game.

    Fuck knows.

    I've started a thread on the Developer forum so hopefully someone can clarify things.

    It's going to screw a part of my game now that I'm thinking about it though. I was planning on players needing cut off thumbs from high ranking crew members to open a few doors but I suppose that idea is screwed now. :(
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,741 Valuable Player
    Forgot to say that I don't know what the old guidelines were, they've just said that current games in the Oculus Store that don't follow these new guidelines won't be affected.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,790 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Forgot to say that I don't know what the old guidelines were, they've just said that current games in the Oculus Store that don't follow these new guidelines won't be affected.

    Well that tells me things have got stricter.  What next - quotas?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,741 Valuable Player
    I mean I can understand most of those things not being allowed but not allowing dismemberment is just plain ridiculous. That has gone on in video games for more than 30 years. :o
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    Why not ... idk .. allow an age setting? Or allow multi profiles for different users like we have with netflix for what you can see/watch?
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,741 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    Why not ... idk .. allow an age setting? Or allow multi profiles for different users like we have with netflix for what you can see/watch?

    This is where I'm confused. It says below that part that I quoted that stuff in R rated films should be fine but I've no idea what the equivalent is over here in the UK. I'm guessing it's the equivalent of an 18 certificate but over here you can have arms, legs and heads flying all over the place in films for 18 years old plus. In fact I'm pretty sure that I went with my Dad to the cinema to see Conan The Barbarian when I was aged 11 and it was a 15 certificate at the time and had limbs and heads getting severed.

    And even if R rated films can have dismemberment in the States they've mentioned dismemberment as a major no-no in that list. Which is just plain stupid. Like I've said we've had dismemberment in video games since the 80s ffs.

    I'm SERIOUSLY pissed off if we can't have dismemberment in games on the Oculus Store now.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 1,910 Valuable Player
    Wow.  That’s pretty extreme of Oculus to do. 
  • RorschachPhoenixRorschachPhoenix Posts: 1,594 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    If you think this is bad, then you should have your eyes wide open to see what is happening right now on this planet and also to not miss out what will happen next. This is just regular political correctness censorship guidance to please everyone promote an ideology in which everyone who dares to express a different opinion than the big social media corporations like google, facebook and twitter and also the mainstream media (as an ally) is an alt-right-nazi.

    Racist or Hateful imagery (such as swastikas, Pepe the Frog, or similar images whether they were offensive at the time of submission or became offensive later)

    Pepe the Frog is now the new nazi swastika. And only god knows what other hateful imagery there are. Maybe me, eating ice cream while sitting on the toilet.

    Sounds a bit paranoid, but they will find a way to widen the library of images that are in their opinion hatefull. Because it is their opinion that matters. And it is their decision making.
    It took quite a while to be honest, but eventually we will have "Newspeak" and "doublethink" (1984).
    Google is also doing a brilliant job when it comes to fire people who does not share the same believe systems (or are decent human beings that at times uses their brain also for critical thinking).

    I don't want to derail this thread further anymore, just wanted to leave my 2 cents here, because what on the surface looks like something irrelevant (because it is about VR games) is under the surface (at the core) the most dangerous thing since the cold war.
    Freedom of speech, freedom of thought and self-expression are in real danger.

    (Yes, this has not much to do with VR games and some research about how political correctness is turning into oppressive tyranny is necessary.)
    Excuse my bad english. I speak to you through the google translator. :P
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 2,262
    Wintermute
    edited May 2018
    That list seems to be in keeping with what we get already. No reason to panic at all. Gore is not excessive and it does list the specific examples. No need worry nor rant. The Hate Speech is an interesting topic as it is rather vague. In UK and most countries this is often used in referring to the complete law relating to a connection to against religion; race; etc. Media and Police often quote it as an exaggeration as if Hate is NOT ALLOWED. I feel these terms are a slight reflection upon this same issue. Would a game that uses taunts be NOT ALLOWED? I think these are missing in AI characters in E:D and seriously they can not listen to what we are saying to opponents over mics.

    I am actually surprized real money gambling bothers VR e.g. Poker as that is pretty common place already. Do they wish to ban gambling in the world? No as it makes money and steals from the meek. Only fools gamble.

    Also, I think FARLANDS is directed at under 10s!
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,787 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    Ha.  Lets say the game is popular like Onward.  They wouldn't care if there was a little dismemberment.  I don't think they'd enforce it.  Why does everyone hate on steam?  It plays just fine for me, does it not work for most people?  What they should worry about if they enforce this is rift owners who believe Steam is the crap it's reported to be going to steam and actually trying it out and finding out that's not the case at all.  The games I enjoy the most just happen to be games I bought on steam, not because it's steam, I just happened to purchase one there and the other is only available on steam.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,787 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Mradr said:
    Why not ... idk .. allow an age setting? Or allow multi profiles for different users like we have with netflix for what you can see/watch?

    This is where I'm confused. It says below that part that I quoted that stuff in R rated films should be fine but I've no idea what the equivalent is over here in the UK. I'm guessing it's the equivalent of an 18 certificate but over here you can have arms, legs and heads flying all over the place in films for 18 years old plus. In fact I'm pretty sure that I went with my Dad to the cinema to see Conan The Barbarian when I was aged 11 and it was a 15 certificate at the time and had limbs and heads getting severed.

    And even if R rated films can have dismemberment in the States they've mentioned dismemberment as a major no-no in that list. Which is just plain stupid. Like I've said we've had dismemberment in video games since the 80s ffs.

    I'm SERIOUSLY pissed off if we can't have dismemberment in games on the Oculus Store now.

    Be sure to link this for them.  This is an R rated movie.  I would say a cannon ball taking a head off the shoulders is dismemberment.




  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,490
    Project 2501
    I love the dismemberment in Fallout 4VR. At least we still have Steam. 
  • vanfanelvanfanel Posts: 180
    Art3mis
    For those curious this was the change:
    • Excessively violent content.
    to
    • Excessively violent content (including but not limited to: torture, rape, child abuse, animal abuse, cannibalism, glorification of gore, and dismemberment).

    Whether what this actually means we'll have to wait and see from a dev that gets there app rejected because of this.  I actually don't believe it's a strict enforcement and I'm sure we'll continue to see zombie shooters flood the stores with headshots and dismemberments intact.  However, would a game like Gorn be allowed in the store?  It seems to apply even though it is cartoony and not very realistic.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,251 Valuable Player
    edited June 2018
    I think Oculus need be a bit more specific in what they mean by "glorification of gore, and dismemberment." The word glorification can mean a few things. The dismemberment thing is a real concern though, because it looks like us adults are going to be playing 70% of kids games on the Oculus store. Would things like Pacman come under cannibalism just incase someone wants to do a VR version of that game?

    I can certainly understand some of the stuff they mention, but why would Oculus make a ruling that will effect developers and there store by adding things like dismemberment to that list? Make a an 18 yrs old certificate on a different part of the store that requires a pass code or something, it's as simple as that if they are concerned about something. Not sure what the concern is though given Steam has hundreds of gore and dismemberment games I believe..

    https://www.audioenglish.org/dictionary/glorification.htm



  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,291 Volunteer Moderator
    So how much of that was because of The Forest getting a VR version? You can murder cannibals with a chainsaw, hack off their limbs, cook and eat them, use their bones as armor and use the remaining limbs to build effigies to taunt the survivors. Then chase down a rabbit and cut its head off with an axe. That covers most of the violent content rules. :)

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,251 Valuable Player
    edited May 2018
    kojack said:
    So how much of that was because of The Forest getting a VR version? You can murder cannibals with a chainsaw, hack off their limbs, cook and eat them, use their bones as armor and use the remaining limbs to build effigies to taunt the survivors. Then chase down a rabbit and cut its head off with an axe. That covers most of the violent content rules. :)


    Thanks for the tips, I wasn't aware you could do all that in The Forest. I'm just waiting for a few more bug fixes before I play it all. Are things like Arizona Sunshine going to stay on the store? I haven't purchased it yet, but can't you blow limbs off in that game?
  • JD-UKJD-UK Posts: 2,289 Valuable Player
    edited June 2018
    I would bet this is a reaction to the recent School Shooting fiasco on Steam. Made headlines in the news - and little wonder, considering recent events. The idea was to shoot as many "civilians" and children as you could, in a school environment.

    Personally, I feel Steam should shoulder a large part of the blame for that, as they said they knew the dev was a "bad guy" but hadn't realised who he was, as he was using a different company name.

    They can't expect us to believe that they only deal with company names and don't know the names of the individual devs they make contracts with.

    Anyway - I'll look for a link to the Beeb story - was just reading it yesterday.

    Here ya go:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44302146

    Found this from March as well:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43414617

    Wouldn't blame Oculus/FB for distancing themselves from such unacceptable crap.






  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,823 Valuable Player
    edited June 2018
    I wonder if this is in reaction to the school shooting game on steam. Maybe oculus are trying to get strict rules in place before their hand is forced. I fear unless content distributors get their house in order we may get drastic government heavy handedness. God help us is we get like Australia or Germany.
    All the kiddie stuff (being banned) I am fine with. What is shocking on a monitor could be very disturbing in vr however I do hope violence in context is ok, the example you say above, circumventing security. Using a dismembered thumb sounds fine to me in an adult rated game...... As should legal porn be imo

    Edit ninja'd by brixmis
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,251 Valuable Player
    edited June 2018
    @Brixmis - By what snowdog has wrote, it looks like Oculus are distancing themselves more from just what that one game involved. I also read that article and it's obvious that game wasn't going to remain on any store for very long for obvious reasons.. 
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,568 Valuable Player
    So, that confirms then no Resident Evil 7 on the Oculus Store if it ever came.

    Dismemberment in the first 15 minutes of the game.




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  • ElusiveMarlinElusiveMarlin Posts: 229
    Nexus 6

    I just bought the Arizona Sunshine DLC last night, and this would definitely fall foul of these rules, as you blow zombie limbs and heads clean off in this game franchise!

    It would be a sad loss if games like this are no longer produced for Rift. 
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  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 2,262
    Wintermute
    We know we only play Arizona Sunshine in Horde Mode just because of saving the Asian Hooker for the last only to first shoot off both her arms and then one of her legs and see her wriggle towards you!
  • JD-UKJD-UK Posts: 2,289 Valuable Player
    Maybe they would say it referred to dismemberment of living 'representations of people' only.

    I'm sure they will be asked about this - probably repeatedly - in media interviews, so I think we will get clarification with time (which devs won't have much of - but they can ask directly, of course).




  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,251 Valuable Player
    edited June 2018
    Brixmis said:
    Maybe they would say it referred to dismemberment of living 'representations of people' only.

    I'm sure they will be asked about this - probably repeatedly - in media interviews, so I think we will get clarification with time (which devs won't have much of - but they can ask directly, of course).

    The whole thing needs explaining better because it's ridiculous. Maybe someone could clear it up before the devs decide to leave Oculus in their droves because they're unsure what all this actually means. I get most of it apart from the "glorification of gore or dismemberment."
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,103 Valuable Player
    Excessively violent games can still be played on the Rift, you just can't buy them direct from the Oculus Store. But developers can sell them on their websites and we can play by allowing 'external sources' (or whatever that option is).

    Also, I'm willing to bet that the "dismemberment" clause is limited to animals and people. I'm pretty sure we'll still be able to dismember zombies, demons, and monsters.
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  • ElusiveMarlinElusiveMarlin Posts: 229
    Nexus 6
    The Irony is that one of the free games I got with my Rift sees me ripping the arms of a robot and smacking it with it! :-)
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,755 Volunteer Moderator
    Zenbane said:
    Excessively violent games can still be played on the Rift, you just can't buy them direct from the Oculus Store. But developers can sell them on their websites and we can play by allowing 'external sources' (or whatever that option is).

    Also, I'm willing to bet that the "dismemberment" clause is limited to animals and people. I'm pretty sure we'll still be able to dismember zombies, demons, and monsters.
    Yeah, Robo Recall has dismemberment ... plus I am sure, they mean "excessive" dismemberment ..
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