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Can't decide, Vive or Oculus. Few questions.

NibGamesNibGames Posts: 26
Brain Burst
Hi all,

I've been an owner of the DK2 ever since it was released. Now, having experienced VR with hand trackers over at a friends place, I would like to upgrade my set to either an Oculus Rift + Touch or an HTC Vive. My DK2 is hardly supported in games anymore anyway.

I've done a lot of research already and I really can't decide. Here's a few questions and things I find important:

I'd like to be able to have a little room to walk around (1 meter from the center position) and I also like to be able to crouch and lie down without losing the tracking. Can the rift handle this with 3 trackers?

The controllers of the Rift seem better to me. I like the thumbsticks on them, the way your hand holds them, and the finger tracking is really neat. But are they really better than the Vive controllers?

Any difference in quality in terms of dark and light areas? My dk2 looked better in dark areas, but the Vive, which I tried at my friends place, seemed to have better looking visuals in bright areas.

Finally, I noticed a topic about Oculus is going to do something about 18+ games with dismemberment and gore overall, and horror games. How much is this true? I'd like to have a complete experience when playing The Forest in VR :)

Thank you for your time!

Comments

  • ThmoasThmoas Posts: 276
    Nexus 6
    edited June 13
    - "little room to walk in" -> Oculus Rift can do this even with 2 sensors (diagonaly placed). If it's just a 1m sidestep that's fine. 3 sensors will allow for 3m by 3m or more roomscale.
    - The controllers with thumbstuck and "fake" finger tracking are generally seen as better then the Vive sticks
    - Rift can have a bit of a greyish/greenish tone in black, however, for some reason, it seemed better last time I tried Elite and no banding too (I had this before).
    - Vive is indeed a bit more bright, according to most people comparing them

    You can just get The Forest on Steam and start it from Oculus Home or Dash, no worries.

    Unless you don't have to look at money at all (Vive Pro), the Oculus Rift is comparable to the Vive but the Vive is more expensive. The only thing the Rift can't do and the Vive can is huge tracking volumes. However, I have 4 sensors placed 5m by 5m and thus have great tracking in a 4,5m by 4,5m square. So it's only if you want bigger then 5m by 5m (I don't know how far I could stretch it, I'm out of room).
  • NibGamesNibGames Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    Thank you for the quick reply! Really helpful.

    What did you mean by "fake" finger tracking? What makes it fake? Isn't it accurate?

    By the way, are the sensors wired?
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,523 Valuable Player
    edited June 13
    The price of the Rift right this second is just incredible.  I use both every day at work (have done for 2 years) and i also now use the Vive Pro.  The Touch controllers are leaps and bounds above the wands.  I believe the visuals in the Rift are better than the Vive and comfort is better.

    The Vive Pro - ok they have solved the comfort issues and the image issues but those controllers...  that price...

    If price isn't a thing then get the Pro - wireless is coming out end of Summer  https://www.roadtovr.com/vive-wireless-adapter-release-date-launch/

    But again, you're looking at another £300+ for that wireless add-on.

    Better resolution and wireless are just about here but right now you're gonna pay like crazy for it.

    The Rift - it's so dirt cheap, it's got the best software, it's amazing!
  • lord_of_shredlord_of_shred Posts: 97
    Hiro Protagonist
    Hi NibGames,

    I hope I can help you a bit.
    I myself have a 2 camera setup, they stand quite high about 1.90 meters with about 2.80 meters distance between them (and angled in).  My playspace is about 3 meters in width and 2 meters in height. I only get tracking problems when I make a full 180 turn and occlude the hand trackers or I get down on the floor and am occluded by the desk in front of me. Using a well positioned 3 camera setup should be no problem (given that nothing occludes their line of sight).

    From experience I can only recommend the the Rift over the normal Vive (haven't tried the Pro yet). The controllers are far better (also the possibility to just swap out batteries when they are dead is nice, although I've only had to change them twice since getting it about a year ago, and I've clocked in about 120-130 hours with my home system alone with the touch controllers) and feel almost natural. I've been playing From other suns lately and after 2 minutes I always forget that I'm holding them...they just fit in. Never had any problems with them for development aswell (at work) which is something I can't say about the Vive Wands.

    I personally find the display in the Rift superior to the Vive (although I have to add, I use VR glasses inside) in terms of SDE and color reproduction. The Vive's SDE I seem to notice more...the pixels are "sharper" defined. A pro for the Vive display in my opinion is the god rays seem to be a bit less pronounced.

    The "new" Oculus guidelines wouldn't affect the game if you buy it through another vendor (e.g. Steam). I don't think that we'll be getting "cut" versions on the Oculus store (seems to be a total waste of dev time/resources)...either the game will be allowed or not. And if not, you're free to buy elsewhere.

    From a software standpoint, I'd go the Oculus route. The ratio of quality products that are the store is much higher than what I've found on Steam. Currently I got around 25 games on OC and 6 on Steam.

    Also the current voucher for credit in the store should make this a no brainer.

    Hope I could help.
  • lord_of_shredlord_of_shred Posts: 97
    Hiro Protagonist
    NibGames said:
    What did you mean by "fake" finger tracking? What makes it fake? Isn't it accurate?

    By the way, are the sensors wired?
    The fingers are "tracked" by guessing their position through capacitive sensors. "Real" tracking would be something like using the Leap Motion controller, which has come a long way since it was introduced but isn't supported by that many applications and for gaming purposes far too much in my opinion.

    The camera sensors use a USB 3.0 connection, which means it is a good idea to spend 20-30 bucks on an additional PCIe USB 3.0 card (Inateck with powersupply connection is sufficient), although here at work I use a 3 sensor setup directly on the board without any hassle. That is the only downside I could find to the Vive system (for the home use that is...in a professional setting with a larger space I'd go the Vive route with Lighthouse stations).
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 1,389
    Project 2501
    The rift is far better than the vive in many aspects. Better controllers, lighter, accurate sensors ( they are not cameras) and a much better looking design. Also a support team that doesn’t screw you over like HTC loves to do. 
  • lord_of_shredlord_of_shred Posts: 97
    Hiro Protagonist
    @Digikid1
    Why shouldn't they be cameras? 
    https://uploadvr.com/hackable-webcam-oculus-sensor-be-aware/
    They don't use a camera driver interface but technically it's noting else (but lower speced) than the industrial cameras with a daylight filter I use for installations that need optical tracking.
  • Smashed_PumpkinSmashed_Pumpkin Posts: 71
    Hiro Protagonist
    To get back to the OPs question; I always find myself recommending the Rift over the Vive. I can't really pass judgement on the support teams as I've never had any problems, but as far as cost to value goes, the Rift is a clear winner. I used a high end Vive room-setup at work long before I got myself a personal VR setup and it sucked me in. For a long time I was very much biased towards the Vive, primarily because it was the one that first truly hooked me and I believed it to have a superior tracking system. I had tried out the Rift DK1 and 2 before so my feelings towards the Rift weren't the best.

    When I finally tried out the consumer Rift I was surprised to find it was as good an experience as the Vive as far as the headset is concerned. What I then realised was that the overall experience was significantly better thanks to the touch controllers. It's not hard to see that the Vive sticks are dated, the thumb touch pads are a poor design choice and the general ergonomics of how they sit in the hand make them feel like prototypes. They're well manufactured but they don't feel natural. In comparison, the Rift's Touch controllers are probably the best input devices I've ever used.

    If you're looking to upgrade because you want hand tracking, the Rift will definitely give you the best experience. As for room scale, I've heard the Vive give good coverage with it's lighthouses and I know the tracking is solid. I bought a 3rd sensor when I got my Rift and I've found the coverage for my roomscale to be more than adequate. I don't have a huge play space. maybe 3m x 4m, but I find myself literally dragging my controller along the walls when setting the boundaries and I've never lost tracking. With the three sensors I'd have to make a conscious effort to "hug" a controller before it finally loses tracking and my ceiling stops me long before the sensors do when reaching up high.

    I'm pretty sure the content limitations you mentioned are only with regard to the Oculus store, nothing to do with Steam or any other platform so I wouldn't worry about that.

    Hope some of that helps.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,523 Valuable Player
    NibGames said:
    Hi all,



    Finally, I noticed a topic about Oculus is going to do something about 18+ games with dismemberment and gore overall, and horror games. How much is this true? I'd like to have a complete experience when playing The Forest in VR :)

    Thank you for your time!

    They gave an update on another thread:

    "Dismemberment is generally ok, we draw the line at the glorification of it.  So for example, fighting zombies and ripping off limbs is fine, but running through a mall ripping the arms off innocent people just to hear them scream has definitely crossed over into glorification."
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,353 Power Poster
    There are MUCH more and more important advantages that the Rift has over the Vive than the Vive has over the Rift.

    Rift
    • The displays are sharper and clearer
    • There's A LOT less SDE (Screen Door Effect)
    • It's more comfortable to wear (unless you spend an extra $99 for the Vive's Deluxe Audio Strap)
    • Has great qulaity built in headphones (unless you spend an extra $99 for the Vive's Deluxe Audio Strap
    • Has a MUCH better microphone
    • Is more aesthetically pleasing to the eye
    • Has better designed motion controllers (you'll frequently forget you're holding the things which increases immersion)
    • Has motion controllers with analog sticks rather than crappy trackpads
    • Has motion controllers with finger tracking
    • Has a ridiculous amount of free games and applications with it
    • Is $100 cheaper
    Vive
    • Has more space for glasses wearers (but getting prescription lens inserts for the Rift solves this)
    • Has a slightly larger vertical FOV
    • Has better tracking out of the box (but getting a third sensor solves this)

    You might want to wait a couple of weeks for the Rift's inevitable Summer Sale though because last year the Rift had a $100 permanent price cut.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MradrMradr Posts: 2,705 Valuable Player
    edited June 13
    One thing to note - whatever you do go with - there is a way to cross platform each other games with. You won't be lock out of any store for say unless something changes then you will/might have to wait a little bit for that store platform to fix whatever is going on. Both have this issue and both do try to fix problems rather quickly when it does happen, but just keep that in mind.

    I recommend the Rift for the easy access store and their great support - but I've had both in the past and can say both have their ups and down as well. Looking outside the HMDs - the software and support is the other major factor to always look at. Granted you will hear horror stories on both sides - but I say Oculus has the better over all support when it comes to getting any help with a problem and/or questions. Granted they are a company - so if you break your HMD that is still on you of course:) but they have been known to sell a refurbish model to help out in cases like those.


    As for the topic of no more 18+ stuff - no one really knows for sure. I am sure they mean extreme versions of it - but it is possible they do mean all. Then again - if you want to really dive into that I recommend posting in that thread and see what might come out of it. Personally - I feel adding a age rating system would be a better idea than blocking content like that - but it's possible if they do enforce this rule on games - dev will just switch stores and still be release on the steam store instead so it's not like the game will not come out. I have a feeling the rule there is just to keep the extreme version out of the store and not force their game reviews to sit and play such game as well.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,353 Power Poster
    Don't worry about horror games and stuff, as I mentioned in the thread I started I've had some clarification from Oculus. There's going to be no need for me to censor my game at all and I'm planning on it having the player needing to cut the thumbs off important crew members to gain access to important parts of the ship as well as having alien parasites jumping out at players from corpses lol :o :D :p
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,523 Valuable Player
    edited June 13
    snowdog said:
    Don't worry about horror games and stuff, as I mentioned in the thread I started I've had some clarification from Oculus. There's going to be no need for me to censor my game at all and I'm planning on it having the player needing to cut the thumbs off important crew members to gain access to important parts of the ship as well as having alien parasites jumping out at players from corpses lol :o :D :p

    What happens if i'm playing multiplayer, ripping off the arms of robots and happen to shout "yeah, i flippin love ripping the arms off shit"

    Is that glorification?  Will they send 50,000 volts to my headset?   :D
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,081
    Wintermute
    I've got a Rift and a Vive. The Vive has been in the closet ever since my Touch controllers arrived.
  • NibGamesNibGames Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    Wow, so many detailed replies. Thanks guys! Really helpful. You guys have made up my mind. I need to move some furniture to make the room more sufficient for VR, and after that I can install the VR kit. But as mentioned (and I didn't know that yet!) I will buy it within 3 days to get that sweet 75$ store credit offer.

    I really appreciate all the help.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,523 Valuable Player
    NibGames said:
    Wow, so many detailed replies. Thanks guys! Really helpful. You guys have made up my mind. I need to move some furniture to make the room more sufficient for VR, and after that I can install the VR kit. But as mentioned (and I didn't know that yet!) I will buy it within 3 days to get that sweet 75$ store credit offer.

    I really appreciate all the help.

    The bigger the play-space, the better the experience will be in my opinion.  Unless all you play are car and flight sims.
  • NibGamesNibGames Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    Yeah, I can make quite some space, probably bigger than what I first mentioned. That 3rd tracker is a good idea.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,523 Valuable Player
    NibGames said:
    Yeah, I can make quite some space, probably bigger than what I first mentioned. That 3rd tracker is a good idea.

    Definitely get the 3rd sensor.  You'll only end up getting it soon after the first tracking glitch.
  • JoeManji08JoeManji08 Posts: 123
    Art3mis
    This has some good info on setting up your sensors.  I use the 3-sensor setup at the bottom of the page with them in corners near the ceiling.  Ignore the message during set-up that says your front sensors should be closer together -- mine has perfect tracking unless I intentionally cover up a controller.

    https://www.oculus.com/blog/oculus-roomscale-tips-for-setting-up-a-killer-vr-room/
  • RavengerRavenger Posts: 38
    Brain Burst
    The Rift touch controllers are way better than the Vive wands, which is the main reason to get the Rift over the Vive IMHO. . The best way to compare is the Vive wands are like having tools inside VR, while the Rift Touch controllers are like having your hands inside VR. The sense of presence with the touch controllers is amazing, especially in games like Lone Echo/Echo Arena where your arm, hand and finger movements are represented in the game. While playing games with the touch controller they seem to just melt into your hands and you forget you're even holding them a lot of the time. Extremely impressive design.
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