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Feel Three Motion Simulator update - launch incoming!

traveltr0userstraveltr0users Posts: 17
NerveGear





Yes, it's been a while but we're nearly ready to launch.... you can still join the raffle/newsletter to win one at http://www.feelthree.com/giveaways/pre-kickstarter-giveaway/ and share your code to get more entries, but you better get a move on!

The new base is ±50°, so 100° pitch/roll in total :)
http://www.feelthree.com/feel-three-specifications/

Early bird is $2000, so get on the newsletter to find out when we're launching.




No video of it working until the Kickstarter.... we have to hold back the really cool stuff, but here is an animation :)
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Comments

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,877 Power Poster
    Looks great but I'd have to move to a larger flat if I got one lol :p :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,841 Valuable Player
    Yes the size is now prohibitive to fit the "Western Household Percentile' (the general space suggested for furniture and Electrical items) [reason exercise equipment is always built to fold a certain way].

    Still feel the developers will have to look towards OOH to achieve a strong business in the short term, with consumer takeup hoping to ramp off of the back of this.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RolzRolz Posts: 163
    Art3mis
    interested in the simracing side of it
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 25,651 Oculus Staff
    Looks cool. Don't have the space in my current apartment, but good luck!
    AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 3,802 Valuable Player

    This looks great.


    So I assume the problem of compensating for the Rift's/Vive's movement in relation to the sensors has been solved? Is it done with software? and does it add any latency? and am I right in assuming 3 sensors are enough for the range of movement the chair is delivering?

    Gateway 2000, Pentium II 300 Mhz CPU, 64Mb RAM, STB Velocity 128 AGP Graphics Card with 4MB SGRAM, 6.4Gb Hard Drive, US Robotics 56.5kbps Internal Modem, 12/24x CDROM Drive, Ensoniq AudioPCI, Windows 95.
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 1,829 Valuable Player
    wow look at that for home use.

    If you have for the room for sure, elite users, i can hear them drooling.
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • RiftFlyerRiftFlyer Posts: 112
    Art3mis
    The picture shows a vive headset and tracker. As DaftnDirect asked how are you planning to do motion cancellation on rift when the oculus api doesn’t expose sensor data at the driver level to allow you to manipulate it? 
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,027
    3Jane
    edited August 17
    The target market should be arcades. 

    Imagine if it were an enclosed sphere that allowed full rotation? Imagine playing a combat flight sim in a rig like that? 

    Even now it would be really great for a flight sim but much better for a racing sim where you can simulate the G's. 

    Reminds me of this from Ready Player One


  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 4,559 Valuable Player
    edited August 19
    @MowTin - Why just arcade? If you take a look at it it's not much bigger then an armchair in width. It's the height that makes it look big, so unless you have to duck down when walking around your room, then it should be fine if you are seated like the man in the demo. I'd still have 3ft above me to spare if that was in my VR room, and that's just guessing the guy is 6ft tall.

    Well it would be good for arcades to make loads of money on just a $2000 setup like this, it's good that it is also offered to the consumer at such a low price..
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,841 Valuable Player
    MowTin said:
    The target market should be arcades. 
    .....
    RedRizla said:
    @MowTin - Why just arcade? If you take a look at it it's not much bigger then an armchair in width. 
    .....
    Will it would be good for arcades to make loads of money on just a $2000 setup like this, it's good that it is also offered to the consumer at such a low price..

    Oh where to start?

    Okay, I agree that the company should have focused on a B2B then B2C approach (you would expect that!) This would have allowed them to hone their skills, and also come to understand what the needs of commercial could be migrated to the needs of consumer. In realising this too late they are now in a rushed compromise situation - as we are seeing with the likes of Virtuix, StarVR and others, having to pivot too commercial comes with many issues.

    Regarding the price of the system - this is a perfect example of the compromise to be avoided. If the manufacturers had focused on commercial they could avoided having to pair down the concept to fit a "perceived" consumer price point, and with that possibly endanger throwing the baby out with the bath water regarding the deliverable. With a commercial focus they could have created the "premier" version. and then after evaluation, creating off the back of all the free publicity, a consumer version.

    It is this approach to new technology - trying to force the square peg of high-tech into the round hole of consumer need that has soured the latest attempt to establish VR with the "mainstream", and was based on a false premise by individuals that have proven they had more hyperbole than business sense.

    Let's hope FeelThreeMotion can get some good advise on their next steps.




    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • danybonindanybonin Posts: 53
    Hiro Protagonist
    i wonder what would happen to the oculus cable if you spin around too much....
    core i7 5930k @ 4.4ghz
    nvidia titan x pascal
    16GB ram
    asus pg27uq
    oculus cv1 4 sensors on usb3 on 5 distinct usb controller
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 4,559 Valuable Player
    edited August 19
    danybonin said:
    i wonder what would happen to the oculus cable if you spin around too much....

    That depends, if you are only spinning around one way it would be a problem, but this setup isn't designed to just spin one way. I have my Rift cable attached to a Bungee clip and a piece of string above my head. I can use room scale without the cable getting in the way now and spin round on my swivel chair no problem. However, if was to spin on my swivel chair one way only then the cable would eventually get a bit tangled I think. I don't know for sure though because I've spun around quite a few times in one direction and it still seems okay.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 3,802 Valuable Player
    If it's smart, it'll include a maximum twist limit within its algorithm. Must be possible to include that without the user being aware it's being done. Even if it just utilises a slow unwind during non-rotational in-game movement. I'm guessing their test rig would have destroyed a few cables already if it didn't do that.
    Gateway 2000, Pentium II 300 Mhz CPU, 64Mb RAM, STB Velocity 128 AGP Graphics Card with 4MB SGRAM, 6.4Gb Hard Drive, US Robotics 56.5kbps Internal Modem, 12/24x CDROM Drive, Ensoniq AudioPCI, Windows 95.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,441 Volunteer Moderator
    They have a yaw limit for that.
    Although they also have a tendency to get numbers a little wrong.
    From their FAQ:
    A standard hemisphere allows ±90-100° pitch and roll, and  ±3600° yaw rotation (ie five complete rotations in one direction).  Yaw rotations are washed out by other movement.

    ±90 means from -90 to +90, which is 180 degrees. It can't roll/pitch that much. It's really ±45-50.

    ±3600 is 20 complete rotations.

    It might be slightly concerning that a product that wants you to sit inside of a giant motorised hemisphere is made by people who don't know how many degrees are in a circle or how ± works. :)

    (or they need one of the engineers to proofread their marketing material)









  • danybonindanybonin Posts: 53
    Hiro Protagonist
    RedRizla said:
    danybonin said:
    i wonder what would happen to the oculus cable if you spin around too much....

    That depends, if you are only spinning around one way it would be a problem, but this setup isn't designed to just spin one way. I have my Rift cable attached to a Bungee clip and a piece of string above my head. I can use room scale without the cable getting in the way now and spin round on my swivel chair no problem. However, if was to spin on my swivel chair one way only then the cable would eventually get a bit tangled I think. I don't know for sure though because I've spun around quite a few times in one direction and it still seems okay.

    Yes that makes sense :)
    core i7 5930k @ 4.4ghz
    nvidia titan x pascal
    16GB ram
    asus pg27uq
    oculus cv1 4 sensors on usb3 on 5 distinct usb controller
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,441 Volunteer Moderator
    The kickstarter is live.

    It's been open for about 30min and already has 41% of it's goal.
    Oops, while writing this it jumped to 50%. :)

    At only $2632au for the early bird price (only 25 of them), I'd definitely buy one, if I had any room for it.
    (Non early bird price is $7021au)

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,841 Valuable Player
    edited August 30
    The originally goal for Feel Three was to raise £50,000 (GBP), a goal they quickly surpassed, with 43 backers having pledged £62,547 as of time of writing.
    https://www.vrfocus.com/2018/08/kickstarter-for-vr-motion-simulator-feel-three-passes-goal/

    Not really a surprise with that price and performance offered, the main issues will be building a business, and the size of operation needed to run this effectively. We will be trying a prototype of the system in a couple of days and will report back.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RiftFlyerRiftFlyer Posts: 112
    Art3mis
    So they’ve reached their funding goal really early. There’s no doubt that there is a market for motion sims for VR. Let’s hope Oculus finally take notice and do something many of us have been asking for and give us a means of having native motion cancellation. Such a shame a product like this won’t work with the rift. 
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,270 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    The kickstarter is live.

    It's been open for about 30min and already has 41% of it's goal.
    Oops, while writing this it jumped to 50%. :)

    At only $2632au for the early bird price (only 25 of them), I'd definitely buy one, if I had any room for it.
    (Non early bird price is $7021au)

    damn it... i am 50/50 that i would put down the cash today ... except it is vive only :(
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 3,802 Valuable Player

    We haven't had confirmation that it's Vive only have we? They haven't replied to questions in this thread about whether they're able to get their software to communicate with Oculus' in a way that enables it to cancel out the chair's movement or whether they have some other method of achieving this but their website states 'every major headset supported'.


    @RiftFlyer I'd suggest asking them directly how they achieve this. They're not obliged to provide a technical answer though, cos, well.. it's their knowledge after all!


    Anyway, I personally would want some sort of broad confirmation that it's at least been achieved before dropping money their way.

    Gateway 2000, Pentium II 300 Mhz CPU, 64Mb RAM, STB Velocity 128 AGP Graphics Card with 4MB SGRAM, 6.4Gb Hard Drive, US Robotics 56.5kbps Internal Modem, 12/24x CDROM Drive, Ensoniq AudioPCI, Windows 95.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,270 Valuable Player
    I read it somewhere today (possibly on KSer questions) that they are trying to get oculus to respond to them and hope to one day get it working bit right now it isnt
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 3,802 Valuable Player
    edited August 30

    OK thanks @bigmike20vt, if that's the case they need to update their kickstarter page, that kind of thing is kind of important to be clear on.


    If you can link to that answer or screengrab it, I think it might be useful if a mod can add a cautionary statement to the first post of this thread. I think we've possible had enough, shall we say 'optimistic' ks claims relating to VR (no names mentioned!!).


    Edit:

    Correction: I've scrolled down their ks page and it's stated there. 'No current support for Oculus Rift'. Apologies for casting any dispersions but the 'compatible with all major headsets statement still needs to be removed as it's a much more prominent statement.


    @Cybereality, @LZoltowski, @Techy111, @kojak, any views on adding that confirmation to the OP?

    Gateway 2000, Pentium II 300 Mhz CPU, 64Mb RAM, STB Velocity 128 AGP Graphics Card with 4MB SGRAM, 6.4Gb Hard Drive, US Robotics 56.5kbps Internal Modem, 12/24x CDROM Drive, Ensoniq AudioPCI, Windows 95.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,877 Power Poster
    I'm definitely going for the Yaw VR instead. All you need to do with that is slap a sensor on top of the thing as far as I remember. Cheaper, smaller, collapsible and portable. Ticks all of the boxes for me, one of these things probably wouldn't fit in my flat lol :o :D :D :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RiftFlyerRiftFlyer Posts: 112
    Art3mis
    snowdog said:
    I'm definitely going for the Yaw VR instead. All you need to do with that is slap a sensor on top of the thing as far as I remember. Cheaper, smaller, collapsible and portable. Ticks all of the boxes for me, one of these things probably wouldn't fit in my flat lol :o :D :D :D
    I don’t see how yawVR is any different. It’s just feelthree have been up front and open about the rift issue. Oculus have ignored repeated requests for motion cancellation. Adding a camera doesn’t work. Maybe now that there’s more players in the market they might add the few lines of code needed for it to work properly. 
  • RiftFlyerRiftFlyer Posts: 112
    Art3mis
    edited August 30

    @RiftFlyer I'd suggest asking them directly how they achieve this. They're not obliged to provide a technical answer though, cos, well.. it's their knowledge after all!


    Feelthree have been completely transparent about the rift issue. It’s stated right there on the kickstarter page. It’s not something a 3rd party can fix. Oculus don’t allow the tracking data to be manipulated at the driver level. Repeated requests for them to add the required code to allow motion cancellation have been ignored. The oculus runtime simply doesn’t allow motion cancellation to be injected into the tracking data by a third party. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,877 Power Poster
    RiftFlyer said:
    snowdog said:
    I'm definitely going for the Yaw VR instead. All you need to do with that is slap a sensor on top of the thing as far as I remember. Cheaper, smaller, collapsible and portable. Ticks all of the boxes for me, one of these things probably wouldn't fit in my flat lol :o :D :D :D
    I don’t see how yawVR is any different. It’s just feelthree have been up front and open about the rift issue. Oculus have ignored repeated requests for motion cancellation. Adding a camera doesn’t work. Maybe now that there’s more players in the market they might add the few lines of code needed for it to work properly. 

    A|dding a sensor to the Yaw VR does work, they've demonstrated it working. It means that you won't be able to have 360 movement but that's a small price to pay imo.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RiftFlyerRiftFlyer Posts: 112
    Art3mis
    snowdog said:
    RiftFlyer said:
    snowdog said:
    I'm definitely going for the Yaw VR instead. All you need to do with that is slap a sensor on top of the thing as far as I remember. Cheaper, smaller, collapsible and portable. Ticks all of the boxes for me, one of these things probably wouldn't fit in my flat lol :o :D :D :D
    I don’t see how yawVR is any different. It’s just feelthree have been up front and open about the rift issue. Oculus have ignored repeated requests for motion cancellation. Adding a camera doesn’t work. Maybe now that there’s more players in the market they might add the few lines of code needed for it to work properly. 

    A|dding a sensor to the Yaw VR does work, they've demonstrated it working. It means that you won't be able to have 360 movement but that's a small price to pay imo.
    It doesn’t work for me with the latest rift firmware. If you don’t believe me get a swivel chair a broom handle and some duct tape and test it for yourself. 
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,441 Volunteer Moderator

    We haven't had confirmation that it's Vive only have we? They haven't replied to questions in this thread about whether they're able to get their software to communicate with Oculus' in a way that enables it to cancel out the chair's movement or whether they have some other method of achieving this but their website states 'every major headset supported'.

    The problem is people want to use motion rigs with games that don't support them (there's a big difference between games supported by a rig and games that support a rig). Motion cancelling by the game is easy. It's just a little quaternion/vector maths.

    Or the motion rig devs could do what my Oculus Injector project does: runtime hijacking. Shouldn't take more than a couple of days for a team with money. This can potentially cancel rig/headset motion in any Oculus based game without the game or oculus knowing. Although an online game might detect it as a cheat.


  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 3,802 Valuable Player
    edited August 30
    RiftFlyer said:

    @RiftFlyer I'd suggest asking them directly how they achieve this. They're not obliged to provide a technical answer though, cos, well.. it's their knowledge after all!


    Feelthree have been completely transparent about the rift issue. It’s stated right there on the kickstarter page. It’s not something a 3rd party can fix. Oculus don’t allow the tracking data to be manipulated at the driver level. Repeated requests for them to add the required code to allow motion cancellation have been ignored. The oculus runtime simply doesn’t allow motion cancellation to be injected into the tracking data by a third party. 


    You obvious didn't read my follow-up post.

    And yes, Oculus runtime doesn't allow motion cancellation.... you've said that like in every one of your posts! That doesn't mean there isn't another way of doing it... which is what my very first question to the devs was all about.

    Gateway 2000, Pentium II 300 Mhz CPU, 64Mb RAM, STB Velocity 128 AGP Graphics Card with 4MB SGRAM, 6.4Gb Hard Drive, US Robotics 56.5kbps Internal Modem, 12/24x CDROM Drive, Ensoniq AudioPCI, Windows 95.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,877 Power Poster
    RiftFlyer said:
    snowdog said:
    RiftFlyer said:
    snowdog said:
    I'm definitely going for the Yaw VR instead. All you need to do with that is slap a sensor on top of the thing as far as I remember. Cheaper, smaller, collapsible and portable. Ticks all of the boxes for me, one of these things probably wouldn't fit in my flat lol :o :D :D :D
    I don’t see how yawVR is any different. It’s just feelthree have been up front and open about the rift issue. Oculus have ignored repeated requests for motion cancellation. Adding a camera doesn’t work. Maybe now that there’s more players in the market they might add the few lines of code needed for it to work properly. 

    A|dding a sensor to the Yaw VR does work, they've demonstrated it working. It means that you won't be able to have 360 movement but that's a small price to pay imo.
    It doesn’t work for me with the latest rift firmware. If you don’t believe me get a swivel chair a broom handle and some duct tape and test it for yourself. 

    Not sure about the latest firmware but the Yaw VR people had it working a while back by slapping a sensor on the thing. Might not work now but it did work fine a while back.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
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