New To The Forum? Click Here To Read The How To Guide. -- Developers Click Here.

STAR VR has something cooking

Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,022 Power Poster
edited August 9 in General
https://www.starvr.com/ - some competition for Pimax maybe?

Discuss...


System Specs: GTX 1080 ti , i7 4790K CPU, 16 GB RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
«1345

Comments

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 4,367 Valuable Player
    Great News..
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,699 Power Poster
    Well I won't hold my breath for anything decent tbh. Unless they've managed to nail eye tracking and dynamic foveated rendering it's going to be another 1.5K headset.

    If it's under a grand then they might sell a few otherwise I can't see it (or anything from anyone else for that matter) outshining the CV2 next year.

    I'm hoping it is going to be something great because Oculus need some competition from somewhere next year.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,777
    Project 2501
    Sadly @snowdog - this is aimed at the enterprise sector, so will not be really competition to CV2... unless they are pivoting into this sector?

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,699 Power Poster
    kevinw729 said:
    Sadly @snowdog - this is aimed at the enterprise sector, so will not be really competition to CV2... unless they are pivoting into this sector?


    I think it has been confirmed to be a consumer headset, not an enterprise headset.

    Any idea what tracking system the current enterprise headsets use? Just wondering what tracking system the consumer version will be using.

    If they had any sense they would approach Oculus to licence the Constellation tracking system and get Oculus to extend their SDK to cover the new headset. Will give their future owners the opportunity to buy software from both stores without messing around with a third party app and give them the benefits of ASW.

    That's assuming that the headset is of good enough quality for Oculus to allow it.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 4,561 Volunteer Moderator
    edited August 12
    Is this a new post or old on the Starbreeze site ?

    Starbreeze vision is to become a leader in the entertainment industry by delivering world class experiences. The landscape of entertainment is transforming and we strongly believe VR will be a big part of the story of our industry going forward. Through our  joint venture with Acer, we are bringing the StarVR 5K 210-degree Virtual Reality HMD to market. With wholly owned companies Nozon, with the revolutionary VR movie technology PresenZ, and Enterspace, aiming to bring a completely new type of large-scale, location-based VR entertainment to market, Starbreeze is well positioned to innovating how entertainment is consumed in the future.

    https://www.starbreeze.com/virtual-reality/
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    And FlyInside Forum Admin.
    Flyinside Flight Simulator is coming !!!!! (In Beta)
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 4,561 Volunteer Moderator
    5K 210 FOV, is that what is coming ????  :o
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    And FlyInside Forum Admin.
    Flyinside Flight Simulator is coming !!!!! (In Beta)
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,366 Volunteer Moderator
    The teaser vaguely shows a new headset design.
    And the hint of "WE MADE SOMETHING FOR YOU" seems like a more consumer focused marketing direction.

    We'll know on Tuesday.

    I at least have a tiny bit more faith in StarVR than Pimax, since they are owned by Starbreeze, who made the Chronicles Of Riddick games. Ok, that's not much of a reason, but I like those games and it's better than anything Pimax has ever done. :)

    Plus as I've talked about on here multiple times, StarVR actually understand the issues involved in wide FOV rendering in modern engines and have talked about their solution.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,777
    Project 2501
    snowdog said:
    ....
    I think it has been confirmed to be a consumer headset, not an enterprise headset.
    ....
    Where did you see that @snowdog - do you have a source?

    All we have from offical sources is this:
    Starbreeze/StarVR Quote 1/8/18
    ....aiming to bring a completely new type of large-scale, location-based VR entertainment to market, Starbreeze is well positioned to innovating how entertainment is consumed in the future.



    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 4,561 Volunteer Moderator
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    And FlyInside Forum Admin.
    Flyinside Flight Simulator is coming !!!!! (In Beta)
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,699 Power Poster
    As bugger, that's a shame. I was hoping that Oculus would have some competition next year after they launch the CV2.

    HTC will probably go bust this year, and even if they survive they're not likely to release a headset next year. I can't see Pimax being cheap enough to provide decent competition either, and LG have been MIA for quite some too.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,777
    Project 2501
    Your assumptions seemed to play you wrong again! "Assuming" this was for consumer - so you "Assuming" that HTC will go bust, also kinda feels like more wishful thinking on your part @snowdog than reality?  B)

    If you are so worried that OVR needs competition - then I think the best possible high-end PC solution my be the LG headset, but there is a suggestion that is is also going to be Enterprise only, so I think you may be out of luck if you count HTC out.

    We are just about to run some sad news about OSVR - so it looks like the consumer high-end VR scene for consumer is coming up short, while the rest are looking to Enterprise.

    I once again tried the Samsung Odyssey last week, and was again impressed by the system using panels and lens claimed for SC but with bigger FOV, real nice. 

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,699 Power Poster
    Not wishful thinking at all. It would be TERRIBLE for VR if one of the major players goes bust. All the signs are there to make this an educated guess rather than an assumption. The continued quarterly losses that have been going on for ages, releasing a budget headset in terms of its production (The Pro uses the exact same lenses as the original Vive, the exact same FOV and a DAS duct-taped to it) And charging a RIDICULOUS price for it all points to HTC being in the shite before you even start to think about the 1500 redundancies they made recently.

    I don't want HTC to go bust. At all. But I have SERIOUS doubts that they're going to be able to keep the lights on and their doors open next year.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,777
    Project 2501
    edited August 12
    I have to agree @snowdog that the external structure of HTC looks fractured (to say the least), but internally - especially from their Asian business hub, they seem to be surviving. The investment from Google has given them more freedom to instigate a root and branch restructuring (seeing the merger of the VR and mobile divisions), and the jettisoning of some dead weight.

    That said, we see HTC still moving forward, but there are inconsistencies in how their Western operation is handling the current poor situation against the Asian managers. Many speak of the "Mushroom" effect for Western execs, spreading a doom&gloom attitude. Also we see the Asian operation able to operate with latitude while the Western teams are constrained.

    A perfect example of this is the different in business understanding. For months the Western exec team has been claiming that the HTC Focus will not be getting an official release in the West till 2019 at the earliest and there was no way that this hardware would be available for us in the Out-of-Home entertainment sector..... jump forward a few weeks, and after direct dealing with HTC Asia - BANG! We have the system launched in Western LBE VR facilities!



    It just seems as if the HTC management have started to ignore the cash-cow of their Western management and are looking to plough their own path - I expect to see shortages of some elements of the HTC offering in the West, reflecting this schizophrenia management style! (IMHO)

    PS. There is a big difference from claiming they will "go bust this year" - to changing it to "possibly going bust Next year" (please leave the goal posts alone)  B)

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,699 Power Poster
    Releasing the Focus here in the West will also fail miserably for the same reason the Pro is failing miserably - it's going to be too expensive. It's also the reason why their mobile division is failing miserably. They've done this continually for YEARS, and they're not learning from the mistake they keep on making time after time.

    And if they survive long enough to release their next high-end PC VR headset in 2020 I guarantee you they will do the exact same thing again.

    If they don't go under this year I can't see them surviving next year. The company is run by idiots.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,777
    Project 2501
    @snowdog - you really like those sweeping assumption. B)

    I am not going to go into detail, but I can confirm that the Pro has not been "failing miserably" - and that the penetration of this version, has seen some major placements in my sector. You really must try and rain in that venom, it will make you sick again. 

    I think you never really understood the issue of expense in the commercial sector, or more likely you have just chosen to ignore it. Yes they are run by a less than ideal team. I think we can also agree that Pimax suffers from that - and from the previous departures from OVR - no company is immune to that issue! OSVR having just paid the ultimate price for that mistake!

    Regarding the state of the combined VR and Mobile division at HTC - I am sure even they have not burned through all of the $2billion Google gave them... yet!
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 4,367 Valuable Player
    edited August 12
    kevinw729 said:
    We are just about to run some sad news about OSVR - so it looks like the consumer high-end VR scene for consumer is coming up short, while the rest are looking to Enterprise.




    I'm really interested to hear what the sad news is going to be? I think if VR was just going to be sold to businesses from now on then it will definitely die a death. Expensive VR headsets could be made before Oculus Rift was ever mentioned, so why didn't businesses take advantage of them back then?

    I also think once you release something to the consumer then you can't just take a step back and produce it for business only. I can't think of any consumer products that have suddenly changed to become business only ones. What Oculus did was make a consumer VR headset that people could afford and now VR is a consumer product. If business want to join in the fun and make expensive headsets that's great, but consumer is where it's at now.

    Why can't people just except that VR was never going to become a successes in such a short space of time? VR companies like Oculus knew it would take time and they have spoken about this in depth..



  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,194 Valuable Player
    edited August 12
    I am not in the know as it were however I think OSVR is in a tight spot as essentially it is now going up against the Khronos group and openXR. Razor have already jumped ship. I expect others to follow
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,373 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    kevinw729 said:
    We are just about to run some sad news about OSVR - so it looks like the consumer high-end VR scene for consumer is coming up short, while the rest are looking to Enterprise.





    I also think once you release something to the consumer then you can't just take a step back and produce it for business only. I can't think of any consumer products that have suddenly changed to become business only ones. What Oculus did was make a consumer VR headset that people could afford and now VR is a consumer product. If business want to join in the fun and make expensive headsets that's great, but consumer is where it's at now.


    I also think once you release something to the consumer then you can't just take a step back and produce it for business only

    This has already happened with VR, many years ago.

    If business want to join in the fun and make expensive headsets that's great, but consumer is where it's at now.

    Business want to join in the fun?  Business has been using VR for years mate - the company i work for has been around for 20 years - never sold to a single consumer in all that time.  It is the home users who are joining industry.
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,366 Volunteer Moderator
    the company i work for has been around for 20 years - never sold to a single consumer in all that time.  It is the home users who are joining industry.
    Well, consumer VR has been available for at least 23 years. :)

  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,373 Valuable Player
    kojack said:
    the company i work for has been around for 20 years - never sold to a single consumer in all that time.  It is the home users who are joining industry.
    Well, consumer VR has been available for at least 23 years. :)

    Did i say 20, i meant to say 24...  lol

    Point being nobody but 20% of the posters on MTBS3D were using a HMD in those 23 years.
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 1,825 Valuable Player
    Mmmm unsure so many personal attacks / patronizing on Snowdog are required.

    Anyhoows

    yes i thought StarVR have always been consistent with we are going for the commercial sector, since as long as i remember them now. I can see why people might feel the message has changed though, a lot has changed with VR since their inception.
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 4,699 Power Poster
    Again, there's no venom or wishful thinking on my part. I don't want HTC to go bust.

    And you know full well that the majority, if not all, of that $2bn has paid off debts. If they still had a good chunk of that cash left they wouldn't have had to lay off 20% of their work force.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 4,367 Valuable Player
    edited August 13
    @Hiro_Protag0nist - You can't get away from the fact that it would have very limited use as a business only device. And if you were to build VR Arcades for a bigger audience, then it would only make people want a VR headset for home use, which is why Xbox/Playstations consoles came along and took over arcade sometime ago now.

    Now VR is out there in homes you can't just reel it all back in and pretend it didn't happen. Oculus would be silly to turn it's back on a consumer device. The other companies might be turning to businesses because they know Oculus/HTC lead the way in the consumer market and there's no where for them to get a foot hold in it. 

    I still have to laugh when people say that VR is expensive. The headset itself is cheap at £399 and there's a lot of PC gamers out there who are already equipped to have VR. Hardware will drop in price for other PC users, so eventually the cost of a PC to have VR won't be expensive..
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 5,464 Volunteer Moderator
    edited August 13
    kevinw729 said:
    @snowdog - you really like those sweeping assumption. B)

    You really must try and rain in that venom, it will make you sick again. 


    @kevin729 if you could dial down the high horse just a tiny bit I would appreciate it, fella. You could try arguing in a debate without having to put someone down constantly. Far more challenging that way. Rule number 1 in a debate, discuss the topic, not the debater. :) In this instance snowdog has not deserved the ferocity of your responses.
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
    ASUS MAXIMUS IX HERO | MSI AERO GTX 1080 OC @ 2000Mhz | Corsair Carbide Series 400C White (RGB FTW!) 

    Be kind to one another :)
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,373 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    @Hiro_Protag0nist - You can't get away from the fact that it would have very limited use as a business only device. And if you were to build VR Arcades for a bigger audience, then it would only make people want a VR headset for home use, which is why Xbox/Playstations consoles came along and took over arcade sometime ago now.

    Now VR is out there in homes you can't just reel it all back in and pretend it didn't happen. Oculus would be silly to turn it's back on a consumer device. The other companies might be turning to businesses because they know Oculus/HTC lead the way in the consumer market and there's no where for them to get a foot hold in it. 


    I'm 100% for home use and by god i hope it never goes away, i just wanted to remind some that business use has never gone away and has been pretty big for many years.  Also, probably my mistake but i'm really not talking about arcade use either.  I know on the forum we tend to talk about 2 areas only - home use and arcades (which some class as business) - i'm talking about in the work-place, for engineers, architects etc.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 4,367 Valuable Player
    There's no point in VR ever leaving the consumer market now, because it would only return in a few years time. Things like 4K screens will become the norm in a few years time and the hardware to run it will cheap enough to buy.. 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,777
    Project 2501
    edited August 13
    RedRizla said:
    ....
    I'm really interested to hear what the sad news is going to be? I think if VR was just going to be sold to businesses from now on then it will definitely die a death. Expensive VR headsets could be made before Oculus Rift was ever mentioned, so why didn't businesses take advantage of them back then?
    .....

    But we did take advantage of them then @RedRizia!
    The nVIS system was used from 1998 to 2017 in the VR entertainment scene - being one of the most successful VR attractions to date (DisneyQuest). And a number of other operations used Sony HMZ's back in the day leading up to the Oculus Kickstarter.


    (Image - NISSAN ParaGlide VR 2013)


    (Image - SCISHOOT VR 2011*) [*picture from 2012, but launched 2011]

    I know it is hard (if not uncomfortable) for some to admit that OVR was not the first VR system - and that there was a business bumbling along in the background long before this. The key element that the current phase of VR brought to the table was forcing down prices and taking a new look at the tech employed. Lighthouse has been great, but many of us are still using OptiTrak (the same system we used back in the 1990's!!)

     ...I think if VR was just going to be sold to businesses from now on then it will definitely die a death.

    I noticed a fatalism recently from some of the hard cord VR consumer fans - the attitude of, if it is not going to be first in the my home then I don't want it, and I hope it dies! The "petulant child" attitude who works out that what was promised is not going to happen, and that a different path is being taken to adoptance! We saw the same comment back in 2015 when the "Descend the Wall" VR attraction first opened, and this forums saw people complaining about not running on their DK1 and if they cant have it then they hope it fails!!!

    Look at it this way @RedRiza - in the short term the only sector seeing money from VR deployment is Out-of-Home (OOH) entertainment, (oh, and the legal teams in the law suit!), with installations in the thousands. This will carry on till say 2020 when the consumer market gets its second generation systems and a second attempt at achieving the promise. By then we in OOH will either have to find a new immersive system to deploy to compete - or we will once again sweep up the consumer HMD's and deploy them profitably into the OOH sector.

    The issue is for those manufacturers that were sold-a-line that consumer VR was going to be big now! and warranted their investment in manufacturing. This was obviously miss guided and can be seen by how the way those that made these inflated claims no longer work in the industry! Jump back to my first posts in 2014 and you will see the perspective has not changed, its just the critics that have "changed"!

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,777
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    There's no point in VR ever leaving the consumer market now, because it would only return in a few years time. Things like 4K screens will become the norm in a few years time and the hardware to run it will cheap enough to buy.. 
    Totally agree, should be a symbiotic relationship as was proposed back in 1999 and again in 2012 - where the OOH business support the cross over to consumer and visa versa - a little bit how the arcade scene worked near the end with the NAMCO arcade hardware going into the PSX - and the whole Dreamcast proposal (and NeoGeo).

    The idea that one sector dominates over another was a greedy and miss guided approach, and was linked more to vested interests than to a business model that was workable. With the investment that OOH is placing in VR at the moment there will be some serious cost reduction benefits on the horizon - but I am still not sure that Next-Gen HMD's will still be worth the candle in 2019 for consumers?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,777
    Project 2501
    RedRizla said:
    @Hiro_Protag0nist - You can't get away from the fact that it would have very limited use as a business only device. And if you were to build VR Arcades for a bigger audience, then it would only make people want a VR headset for home use, which is why Xbox/Playstations consoles came along and took over arcade sometime ago now.
    .....

    Though your history is skewed a little, I have no argument with this.

    The point I would correct is that the PSX derided its tech from the NAMCO System12 amusement boards - and in a licensing deal with Sony they were able to use cost reduce amusement based chipsets to make their console! And if you look into the DirectX birth of the XBone you will also see the Martin Marrieta deal with SEGA and their reduced cost amusement chipset!

    The reality is that the amusement industry became complacent and allowed their business to fester, and failed to update or innovate - console did not kill arcade, as amusement is still a profitable business. Its just that console became much more attractive as a gaming medium and invested more. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

    To the point - yes OOH is a limited sum for entertainment, but a profitable one. And yes hopefully use of VR in OOH will drive those to try it and support it at home - but how many years off is that - and I think its more likely that successful OOH VR will cause a "Space Invaders" moment were consumer try's to emulate an experience achieved out of home.


    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • dburnedburne Posts: 1,369
    Project 2501
    edited August 13
    Well for the sake of the VR industry as a whole I have nothing against this out of home stuff, but for me personally I could care less about it.
    What I care about is a Rift CV2, bring it on baby! ( or anyone else that brings a true second gen VR for home use that is not just all hype).
    Don

    EVGA X-79 Dark MB|I7 [email protected] GHz|EVGA 1080Ti FTW3 Elite|16GB Corsair Platinum 2133MHz| TM Warthog + 7.5cm Ext| MFG Crosswind Pedals| Rift CV1|Windows 10 64 bit 
«1345
Sign In or Register to comment.