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Oculus Connect 5 MEGATHREAD Oculus Quest announced! Join the conversation!

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  • kojackkojack Posts: 6,417 Volunteer Moderator
    kojack said:
    snowdog said:
    I would have thought they were LCD panels, probably how they've got the price so low.

    I thought OLED were cheaper than LCD?
    Not if you buy a TV like mine. :)

    The Quest has physical IPD adjust too, so most likely 2 panels (1600x1440 each) vs 1 on the Go (2560x1440). Although I guess they could just shift the lenses over one panel and adjust camera separation in software, but then fov drops for wider IPD.

    As long as it's not a half resolution panel like a certain other not-to-be-named headset has been revealed to have, I'm happy. :)

    The interesting thing is that this is the first oculus headset that has a wider than tall resolution per eye.
    Per eye res:
    DK1 - 640x800  (0.8 aspect)
    DK2 - 960x1080  (0.888)
    CV1 - 1080x1200  (0.9)
    Go - 1280x1440  (0.888)
    Quest - 1600x1440  (1.111)

    I'm wondering... are all these reports of 1600x1440 correct? Could the Quest really be 1440x1600, the same as the Samsung Odyssey? It just seems an odd move to change the panel geometry for this one.
    I haven't seen any hard numbers for FOV yet (also been busy at work and sick, haven't kept up to date).


     They are two pentile OLED panels while using the optics of the GO. 1600x1440 PER EYE
    Umm, yes, notice the bit where I said PER EYE twice and said it was 1600x1440?

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,151 Valuable Player
    "Double" doesn't necessarily mean "not close". 1 is half of 2 yet 1 is still close to 2.

    There is a saying in business,
    "Buy something for $1, and sell it for $2."

    That is how profit is made. 1 and 2 are not close at all when we're talking profit vs loss. But try to keep things on-topic, we're talking about $200 and $400, a pricepoint that everyone in this discussion is well aware of.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,151 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    Mradr said:
    Price is relative - You are also getting slightly better hardware, 6dof, trackable controllers, and hella lot more fun. All in all - it's price scale to the same price point.

    First, how do you know that it is a "hella lot more fun" ?? Have you tried Quest? Fun is relative, not Price lol

    $200 and $400 are not the same price point at all.

    nalex66 said:
    That was exactly my point. You were arguing that nobody would buy a Go with the Quest available. I'm saying that for the guy who wants a media consumption device, the Go is a better choice (since most video content doesn't take advantage of 6dof or multiple tracked controllers). Oculus is offering three tiers of product to cover three different demographics, and all three offer value for what they are and whom they target.

    Fantastic points. And I'm so surprised that this type of stuff has to be explained in 2018 on a tech forum. We're basically down to convincing people about the value-add differences between: smart phones, e-notepbooks, latptops, desktops, servers, mainframes. lol

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  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 523
    Neo
    edited September 2018
    @Zenbane: I did stay on topic, but as usual you keep reading only half the comment so as usual, you miss the point.
    Everything is relative, so a 200$ difference may not be that big for everyone, period.
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    edited September 2018
    Of course, pricing is relative. $200 can be someone's entire month's food or pocket change for someone else. And that is exactly the point .. something for everyone, that is where Facebook is positioning, 

    yes $1 and $2 is a small difference but it starts making one exponentially as you go up. $500,000  or $1,000,000 is a lot less digestible (in the extreme)

    We forget that we are jaded PC enthusiasts, there is no sugar coating this, we spend money on tech, from our point of view Go will be destroyed by Quest, but will it? I have seen people go for a cheaper phone, fewer features, but it is still a phone, and the price point was $100 or so less. GO is still VR

    With the whole lineup now there is something for everyone, a great solid foundation to build upwards now.

    Go and Quest are for the mums, dads, console players, those who dont have PC's, those whose main entertainment device is an ipad, and for people who think we are basement geeks that hardly see daylight. (or people like me who want all the VR has to offer, including the portability and 6dof + touch of Quest)

    Gotta get to the 1 billion VR users mark somehow :)
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,494 Valuable Player
    What's this daylight thing that everyone keeps on talking about..? :o:D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,494 Valuable Player
    Reminds me of a comedian in the 80s, he was a goth. He started telling this story about his parents telling him, 'Don't go into the cellar! Don't go into the cellar!'.

    One day he plucked up enough courage and opened the cellar door, and he saw things he'd never seen before...like trees. And cars. :D:D:D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,754 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    snowdog said:
    That would be fine if you're releasing your game on Steam but if you're submitting the game to the Oculus Store then you need to put the work in lol

    And rather than new content you're better off upping the eye candy quality because pretty games tend to sell better. Always have done and always will do.
    That's what I mean though. In terms of time - it's better to spend the time on doing something else like content - you are better off making it looks better than trying to spend time on trying to get 5 more fps just because a loop is slow or a mirror effect isn't as fast as some other of doing it. Hardware get faster and cheaper to make up for the time programmers have to spend on micro - optimising code. I'm not saying there are not some lazy programmers out there - but to call a programmer lazy (including yourself) I feel isn't JUST to how much work someone has to put into software (including yourself).

    Sorry - I always hate when people call programmers lazy - it feels like there just isn't any credit going to all their hard work when people do. The whole world is ran of software. Goes to show how important programmers are:)
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,754 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    Mradr said:
    Price is relative - You are also getting slightly better hardware, 6dof, trackable controllers, and hella lot more fun. All in all - it's price scale to the same price point. If price is all that matters - then why then even bother for a CV2:)? Why even bother for "gaming gear" - why even bother for "high end headsets". The value of what you are getting is different per person.
    That was exactly my point. You were arguing that nobody would buy a Go with the Quest available. I'm saying that for the guy who wants a media consumption device, the Go is a better choice (since most video content doesn't take advantage of 6dof or multiple tracked controllers). Oculus is offering three tiers of product to cover three different demographics, and all three offer value for what they are and whom they target.
    Alright:) It just seems to me, media only, even though half the cost, just doesn't seem like a good value. Even for those that want media only, even at double the cost, there is more value to be held out of OQ. 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,754 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    Zenbane said:
    Mradr said:
    Price is relative - You are also getting slightly better hardware, 6dof, trackable controllers, and hella lot more fun. All in all - it's price scale to the same price point.

    First, how do you know that it is a "hella lot more fun" ?? Have you tried Quest? Fun is relative, not Price lol

    $200 and $400 are not the same price point at all.
    True:) I mean Price is relative compare to Value (such as getting controllers, better hardware, moreover all options out of the device, etc) while still having the main focus of what GO can do -media and small games-.

    I go as far to say these are the same arguments that PC and Console gamers have between each other on a daily thing. "Computers offer more than consoles", "Consoles are cheaper to have", "But I can do more on a computer than a console", "Mine is more scale to gaming", etc etc. Is it not neat we're to that point now:)?


  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,151 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    @Zenbane: I did stay on topic, but as usual you keep reading only half the comment so as usual, you miss the point.
    Everything is relative, so a 200$ difference may not be that big for everyone, period.

    Nope. If someone decides that $200 and $400 isn't that different "to them" that still has nothing to do with how those numbers exist on their own. I'm not missing your point at all; as usual you are simply warping the issue in order to prove an irrelevant point. There is literally an infinite number between "1" and "2."

    If you try to count every possible number between 1.0~ and 2.0~ then you could never reach 2.0 in your lifetime.

    Furthermore, we are talking about something specific: the consumer market. You are abandoning that entirely. In the consumer market, $200 and $400 are not "around the same pricepoint." You aren't even addressing that topic anymore though.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,494 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    snowdog said:
    That would be fine if you're releasing your game on Steam but if you're submitting the game to the Oculus Store then you need to put the work in lol

    And rather than new content you're better off upping the eye candy quality because pretty games tend to sell better. Always have done and always will do.
    That's what I mean though. In terms of time - it's better to spend the time on doing something else like content - you are better off making it looks better than trying to spend time on trying to get 5 more fps just because a loop is slow or a mirror effect isn't as fast as some other of doing it. Hardware get faster and cheaper to make up for the time programmers have to spend on micro - optimising code. I'm not saying there are not some lazy programmers out there - but to call a programmer lazy (including yourself) I feel isn't JUST to how much work someone has to put into software (including yourself).

    Sorry - I always hate when people call programmers lazy - it feels like there just isn't any credit going to all their hard work when people do. The whole world is ran of software. Goes to show how important programmers are:)

    There are two types of programmers. One does as little work as possible, finishes work at 5 or 6 and then goes straight to the pub all night and the other works like a man possessed, finishes work at 5 or 6 then goes home to work on their own projects at home like Revive or OpenOVR lol

    I'm in the first category and the same can be said of the vast majority of programmers I've known in my life B)
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,151 Valuable Player
    Yep, I am far from a lazy programmer but I sure as heck know a lot of them!
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,264 Valuable Player
    There's something worse than a lazy programmer...  one without skills!
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,151 Valuable Player
    Wildt said:
    There's something worse than a lazy programmer...  one without skills!

    Yes! Some of the lazy programmers are actually skill-less programmers using "laziness" as a mask!
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • sford52sford52 Posts: 179
    Art3mis
    edited September 2018
    Wildt said:
    There's something worse than a lazy programmer...  one without skills!

    Or without imagination. Every problem is a puzzle to be solved, either with elegance or with brute force.

    ASUS ROG Strix GL702VS-AH73 17.3" Laptop.  I7-7700HQ, GTX1070, 12 GB DDR4 RAM, 500 EVO 970 GB SSD, VS 2017, Oculus rift, Windows 10 home
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,978 Valuable Player
    Here is the Hands On from Tested




    He got very shifty when they mentioned the 2 headphone jacks.  I think i know the secret - they have found a way to connect it to a PC via a headphone jack - CV2 for £399!

    I love you Oculus!




  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    Here is the Hands On from Tested




    He got very shifty when they mentioned the 2 headphone jacks.  I think i know the secret - they have found a way to connect it to a PC via a headphone jack - CV2 for £399!

    I love you Oculus!




    LOL

    The thing is that the thing has USB-C, which is way enough bandwidth to carry positional data to the pc and video to the headset from the pc, I am sure some enterprising hacker/programmer will make it work with PC games  
    Core i7-7700k @ 4.9 Ghz | 32 GB DDR4 Corsair Vengeance @ 3000Mhz | 2x 1TB Samsung Evo | 2x 4GB WD Black
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    Be kind to one another :)
  • shadowfroggershadowfrogger Posts: 502
    Trinity

    I thought this years connect was pretty awesome.  I’m really starting to feel that mass VR movement is a coming :)

    What is interesting is where the quest line will fit in against the console line.  Carmack mentioned that the quest will be more of a competitor to the Nintendo switch. I think it will actually impact the other consoles more.  The next generation of console VR headsets will still be tethered to keep costs down. So will Sony or Microsoft have to bring out a different stand alone VR gaming line(similar to the PSP).  If they do, Oculus won’t be just some side competitor in that area. Sony have great access everything they need to create great VR tech and a great ecosystem for a Quest competitor. But I think Oculus are spending more research money in VR as they are using technology from all their headset lines for each device.

    For a casual console gamer that doesn’t buy the ps4 until 4-7 years in.  I would say that just getting a stand alone gaming device like the Quest 2(or 1) with stand out games.  At about the same cost as a console, It’s a very compelling case. A PS4 with PSVR still adds up and the tracking just isn’t that great compared to the Quest.


    The quest sensors sound amazingly solid, outside in tracking will be gone with cv2.  It’s likely they will have 1-2 optical sensors on the 2nd generation of touch. I would love if they could also a 2nd gen controller into a accurate 3d scanner. 


    Cornering people wanting the CV2 to come out next year, Is the technology even going to be ready?  Sure, Oculus could come out with a pimax killer in 2019. The real concern IMO is, is eye tracking and varifocal going to be possible on a mass scale in 2019?  With eye tracking comes foveated rendering which can save some massive gpu resources. You also need to perfect the AI detail filling for foveated rendering too.  Basically a game on a pimax vs a CV2 with the same GPU power could look almost twice as good on the CV2.

    If they decide to release without these features, They lock the high end rift for half a decade without these features which really need to be worked on by developers.  The Pimax to me is still a high end first generation VR headset trying to make itself off as 2nd generation. I think oculus are getting themselves into a position where they will be constantly setting the VR bar and others are going to have to play catch up.


    It sounds like that for the next quest, the mobile chipset will have to have some sort of tensor core for foveated rendering.

    Laser tag places should be lookig at opportunities now to upgrade their places with Quest and custom guns.  Indoor sport centers should look at opportunities too, not with replacing say tennis with tennis but with a vr sport that can’t be done normally.


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