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Oculus Connect 5 MEGATHREAD Oculus Quest announced! Join the conversation!

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,311 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    It will be interesting to see Robo Recall on Quest. 1600x1440 per eye means the Quest will be pushing 80 % more pixels than the Rift, so I wonder if Quest can do that in 90 fps - or if we're down to 60 fps. I'm guessing that Robo Recall must be scaled down quite a lot for the Quest... Although 64GB is nice, unless Quest games are greatly reduced in size compared to Rift games (Robo Recall is 10GB for the Rift version), Quest won't be able to store many games or apps. 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,150 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Well I was expecting another tease of the CV2 at least but we didn't even get that!!! Very disappointed tbh.

    They showed Half-Dome and confirmed multiple times that the Rift will receive future hardware iterations and software. Not sure what you were watching, sir.
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,153 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    I just bought a 2080ti. Given I DO have a super computer I am not worried about mainstream. I will be sad to leave oculus but if oculus are no longer interested and happy to let other companies supply the gear for the enthusiasts so be it. 
    I really liked that half Dome and would pay good money for it. I am not after a hard and fast release date for high end vr but want some crumbs as well as a rough ETA.. ie Q4 CV2 next year level of granuality....

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,150 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    Hate to say it, but could they scrap CV2, if SC does great when it's released next year? Why bother with CV2 if SC does great?

    Did you watch and listen? Quest (SC) has limitations due to being untethered to a PC. The Rift is the flagship "gold standard" (their words today) and will be the go-to unit to push VR beyond the limitations of GO and Quest. ffs
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,493 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    snowdog said:
    Well I was expecting another tease of the CV2 at least but we didn't even get that!!! Very disappointed tbh.

    They showed Half-Dome and confirmed multiple times that the Rift will receive future hardware iterations and software. Not sure what you were watching, sir.

    You know what I meant. I was expecting to see something NEW. A teaser of the CV2 does NOT include the exact same thing they showed at F8 in May.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • nroskonrosko Posts: 954
    Neo
    The thing i got from the last talk is there is still some finishing to do with some of the tech that will hopefully arrive in CV2. It could take a while b4 its ready for consumer. The deep learning foveated rendering will be awesome but it's just not ready. 

    The recorded stream is up btw. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,311 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    I do get Oculus' perspective on VR (I think) - Oculus isn't making money, but is basically paying for our apps and games. To get 10+ million users and to make VR profitable, Oculus needs to get a lot more customers - and Quest isn't a bad idea in that perspective. 
    Still Rift isn't bad or in any way outdated - it'll take at least a 2080 Ti getting Lone Echo to run perfectly in 90 fps (all settings maxed, including resolution), Seeking Dawn is already limited to super sampling at just 1.2 (and 45 fps on my GTX 1080). So the Rift is still so advanced that it can easily require video cards that still don't exist to get 90 fps (even if ss is below 2.0). 
    If Oculus released a CV2 today - which is more hardware demanding than the Rift - it would send the wrong signal, namely that VR still is for the truly high-end enthusiasts. With the Quest Oculus is telling the world that great VR is for everyone - and in 12-18 months, we might have much better video cards than today (even including RTX) making it a better time to release CV2 (assuming that hardware demands will be higher for CV2 than for CV1).  
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,150 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    You know what I meant. I was expecting to see something NEW. A teaser of the CV2 does NOT include the exact same thing they showed at F8 in May.

    So are you going to buy a Pimax too then after the keynote didn't tell you exactly what you wanted to hear? How about a Vive Pro?
    ;)

    Facebook and Oculus are building a VR Platform for the future, they are not building the Rift, only the Rift, and nothing but the Rift. The keynote had so much valuable information for the Rift, GO, and Quest. They also touched very heavily on the fact that they are building a sustainable business model with these 3 products. A sustainable business model.

    That's the type of thing that prevents situations like... when HTC was bought out by Google, or Pimax relied on a Kickstarter for their 2nd Gen VR HMD.

    Why would anyone demand a Rift CV2 before solidifying that the very platform it is built upon can sustain itself?

    I'm more interesting in knowing that the Rift is still the Gold Standard (which was confirmed) and that Facebook-Oculus have real plans to keep the Oculus Platform a dominant contender in the industry (which they also confirmed).
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,150 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    I do get Oculus' perspective on VR (I think) - Oculus isn't making money, but is basically paying for our apps and games. To get 10+ million users and to make VR profitable, Oculus needs to get a lot more customers - and Quest isn't a bad idea in that perspective. 
    Still Rift isn't bad or in any way outdated - it'll take at least a 2080 Ti getting Lone Echo to run perfectly in 90 fps (all settings maxed, including resolution), Seeking Dawn is already limited to super sampling at just 1.2. So the Rift is still so advanced that it can easily require video cards that still don't exist to get 90 fps (even if ss is below 2.0). 
    If Oculus released a CV2 today - which is more hardware demanding than the Rift - it would send the wrong signal, namely that VR still is for the truly high-end enthusiasts. With the Quest Oculus is telling the world that great VR is for everyone - and in 12-18 months, we might have much better video cards than today (even including RTX) making it a better time to release CV2 (assuming that hardware demands will be higher for CV2 than for CV1).  

    Okay thank the Heavens someone gets it. <3
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    There is another keynote from Carmack tomorrow. I think they will talk about prototypes etc there. He is very unfiltered and unscripted and quite technical.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,018 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    Zenbane said:
    RedRizla said:
    Hate to say it, but could they scrap CV2, if SC does great when it's released next year? Why bother with CV2 if SC does great?

    Did you watch and listen? Quest (SC) has limitations due to being untethered to a PC. The Rift is the flagship "gold standard" (their words today) and will be the go-to unit to push VR beyond the limitations of GO and Quest. ffs

    Well to say CV1 is their flagship it would have been nice to hear more about CV2, which I'm sure will be even greater then their current flagship. Well that's if CV2 is even in development today. I got a few internet interruptions, so was anything else said about CV2 or did I miss it? 
  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 523
    Neo
    edited September 2018
    Wow. Wow. Wow. That was my reaction during the whole stream and even after that.

    - Oculus Quest, now officially dated and named. People talk about 1600x1440 res, 64GB, with Touch controllers, and more importantly, only 400$? It's literally the price of a console, to access "real" VR. Guys, this may be it. This may be the mainstream VR headset we've all been waiting for! Now I just need a confirmation that the experience will be smooth (earlier they talked about 60/72 Hz like the Go, but I really hope it is possible to get something smoother).

    - Oculus Insight really hyped me as well. I didn't expect Oculus to use that "environment scanning" tech, as it is mainly a AR tech. It seems they nailed it.

    - The fact that they demo the Quest on stage (4000 ft2, they said?) means that we'll get quick feedbacks on how well this device works. I can't wait to know more about it!

    - Oculus Platform finally getting out of its beta period. About time.

    - The combination "foveated rendering + upscaling" is brillant. I always had my doubts about dynamic resolution: if the pixel density is way lesser on the sides than on the looking spot, we would obviously see it, even in peripheral vision. BUT with a quick upscale, the "grid" disappears and the lack of detail suddenly becomes way less obvious. Truly a brillant idea. Simple, but effective.

    - Nobody's gonna talk about hybrid apps? Converting f*cking normal apps in VR! I can't wait to see how they pull it off! They'll display 3D elements in the VR environment and 2D elements as 2D panels in the VR environment, that's for sure, they even showed it. But what about the controls? Will we be able to move 3D objects with our hands, like in Medium? Also, many software require keyboards. I really hope they found an ergonomic solution for that. Maybe put a virtual keyboard in the VR environment? That would be effective to use the shortkeys. Oh, damn, I have literally been dreaming about using some apps in VR! Sony Vegas as multiple 2D panels all around me! Matlab and its dozens of windows, displayed all around me!

    I'm hyped as f*ck right now! Every year, Oculus shows their skills in engineering and innovating. Sure, we didn't get news about CV2... for now. But hey, this is 1st gen time. No need to get impatient.
    Anyway, now the Quest seems to be even better than the Rift. Better screens, better lenses, no tether, no need for a powerful PC, ... All it lacks is the ability to run all the current games (including SteamVR games). If it proves to work with the most popular "big games" of VR, Quest will definitely be the best headset around. Hell, even if it doesn't work with all the games, it will still be best to use it for the more simple games like Rec Room, Dead&Buried, ...
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • nroskonrosko Posts: 954
    Neo
    RuneSR2 said:
    I do get Oculus' perspective on VR (I think) - Oculus isn't making money, but is basically paying for our apps and games. To get 10+ million users and to make VR profitable, Oculus needs to get a lot more customers - and Quest isn't a bad idea in that perspective. 
    Still Rift isn't bad or in any way outdated - it'll take at least a 2080 Ti getting Lone Echo to run perfectly in 90 fps (all settings maxed, including resolution), Seeking Dawn is already limited to super sampling at just 1.2 (and 45 fps on my GTX 1080). So the Rift is still so advanced that it can easily require video cards that still don't exist to get 90 fps (even if ss is below 2.0). 
    If Oculus released a CV2 today - which is more hardware demanding than the Rift - it would send the wrong signal, namely that VR still is for the truly high-end enthusiasts. With the Quest Oculus is telling the world that great VR is for everyone - and in 12-18 months, we might have much better video cards than today (even including RTX) making it a better time to release CV2 (assuming that hardware demands will be higher for CV2 than for CV1).  
    Your assuming CV2 is going to be more demanding. I think its not out today simply because it isn't ready. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,150 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    Well to say CV1 is their flagship it would have been nice to hear more about CV2, which I'm sure would be even greater then their flagship.

    They said that the "Rift" is the Gold Standard. Not the "CV1." The Rift.

    CV1, CV2, CV3, etc... those are version numbers. The CV2 would not be "greater than their flagship" lmao, that doesn't even make sense. The Rift will always be their Flagship regardless of the version unless they discontinue the Rift. They confirmed that the Rift is not being discontinued.
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    CV2 won't be ready until there is a perfect storm of tech, if they are going to expand the FOV and not require a monster PC then foveated rendering needs to be NAILED and I am not talking about some tech demo or fringe product here. (or hollow promises) 


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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    @LuluViBritannia far from it, what about all us sim enthusiasts driving enthusiasts. These are what get me excited. There is no way the Quest will run these and imo that's why it won't be better than the rift.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,150 Valuable Player
    Anyone else loving the "purple" color scheme being associated with the Oculus Quest?



    :)
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  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 523
    Neo
    edited September 2018
    @Techy111: That's why I said I can't wait to have feedback on how well it works ^^. Let's do it step by step : first, we confirm that the games with simple graphics work (namely: Rec Room, Windlands, ...). Then, we try and see if it works well with more power-hungry games (Lone Echo, RoboRecall, OrbusVR, ...). And then, we'll see if it can run sim games.

    That said, the point of a standalone headset is to have freedom of movement. Not sure this is really relevant for sim games ^^'.
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,018 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    RedRizla said:
    Well to say CV1 is their flagship it would have been nice to hear more about CV2, which I'm sure would be even greater then their flagship.

    They said that the "Rift" is the Gold Standard. Not the "CV1." The Rift.

    CV1, CV2, CV3, etc... those are version numbers. The CV2 would not be "greater than their flagship" lmao, that doesn't even make sense. The Rift will always be their Flagship regardless of the version unless they discontinue the Rift. They confirmed that the Rift is not being discontinued.

    They didn't confirm that they are building another Rift either, so I'll take it the Rift is the flagship that they will continue to support at this point.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,311 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    nrosko said:
    Your assuming CV2 is going to be more demanding. I think its not out today simply because it isn't ready. 

    I'm thinking that Oculus probably could have made a CV2 today which would be much like the Vive Pro, and then the CV2 would be more demanding due to higher display resolution. It will indeed be interesting to see if foveated rendering can make the CV2 less hardware demanding than CV1, but I'm also thinking that with the way our eyes move including microsaccades and more that it won't be easy getting foveated rendering to work perfectly. And if CV2 was expensive and released today it probably wouldn't help Oculus expand their user base much (Vive Pro doesn't seem to sell like hot cakes and is more hardware demanding than the original Vive). I do think Quest is a clever move - even if many of us would love to see an improved version of CV1. 
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    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,150 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    RedRizla said:
    They didn't confirm that they are building another Rift either, so I'll take it the Rift is the flagship that they will continue to support at this point.

    Yes they did. Even Lucky Palmer confirmed it over a year ago. The keynote specifically said that they will be releasing more hardware and software for all 3 devices: GO, Quest, Rift. They explicitly said that all future hardware releases for all three will be backwards compatible with the software.

    I guess someone needs to post the entire keynote transcript at some point, for those of you interested in spreading misinformation.
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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    @LuluViBritannia of course it's relevant, walking around an aircraft doing a preflight without teleporting, walking around a cabin, walking around a car, moving over to a different seat In the car. Freedom of movement would be relevant in sims just as much as any other game no ? 
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,493 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    snowdog said:
    You know what I meant. I was expecting to see something NEW. A teaser of the CV2 does NOT include the exact same thing they showed at F8 in May.

    So are you going to buy a Pimax too then after the keynote didn't tell you exactly what you wanted to hear? How about a Vive Pro?
    ;)

    Facebook and Oculus are building a VR Platform for the future, they are not building the Rift, only the Rift, and nothing but the Rift. The keynote had so much valuable information for the Rift, GO, and Quest. They also touched very heavily on the fact that they are building a sustainable business model with these 3 products. A sustainable business model.

    That's the type of thing that prevents situations like... when HTC was bought out by Google, or Pimax relied on a Kickstarter for their 2nd Gen VR HMD.

    Why would anyone demand a Rift CV2 before solidifying that the very platform it is built upon can sustain itself?

    I'm more interesting in knowing that the Rift is still the Gold Standard (which was confirmed) and that Facebook-Oculus have real plans to keep the Oculus Platform a dominant contender in the industry (which they also confirmed).

    It all depends on F8 now as far as I'm concerned. If they're not releasing a 4K headset at the start of 2020 I'm probably going for a 2.5K headset from Pimax next year some time instead I think.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

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  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 523
    Neo
    edited September 2018
    @Techy111 : I'm not an expert on sim games, but name me 5 VR-compatible sim games that allow you to walk in the vehicle.
    I'm not saying it can't be relevant, I'm saying it's not, right now. If you wanted to play Assetto Corsa or Elite:Dangerous, you wouldn't need freedom of movement. VR-compatible sim games are mainly played seated.

    Although that would be interesting, indeed ^^.
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 15,150 Valuable Player
    Techy111 said:
    @LuluViBritannia of course it's relevant, walking around an aircraft doing a preflight without teleporting, walking around a cabin, walking around a car, moving over to a different seat In the car. Freedom of movement would be relevant in sims just as much as any other game no ? 

    I have to agree that simulating walking, running, and jumping is a real thing!
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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,735 Volunteer Moderator
    And so is flying and driving lol
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,493 Valuable Player
    I'm also planning on getting a Yaw VR motion simulator next year some time too so who knows, maybe I'll get the Yaw VR motion simulator and wait for the CV2 next year?

    F8 is going to be quite important in my decision making process for next year, as will Pimax's price point for the 5K+ bundle. It would be a shame to lose the Touch controllers but Pimax might even bundle Knuckles controllers with it by then.

    I was all set to stay with Oculus but I might end up jumping ship now if we don't hear anything about the CV2 at F8.

    This is why I said ages ago that releasing the CV2 in 2020 would be almost as bad a business decision as HTC releasing the Vive Pro this year. People will be tempted to jump ship if they have to wait too long.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • @snowdog:

    releasing the CV2 in 2020 would be almost as bad a business decision as HTC releasing the Vive Pro this year. 

    It's not a bad decision, it's just a decision that doesn't please you (no offense).
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 7,018 Valuable Player
    edited September 2018
    Zenbane said:
    RedRizla said:
    They didn't confirm that they are building another Rift either, so I'll take it the Rift is the flagship that they will continue to support at this point.

    Yes they did. Even Lucky Palmer confirmed it over a year ago. The keynote specifically said that they will be releasing more hardware and software for all 3 devices: GO, Quest, Rift. They explicitly said that all future hardware releases for all three will be backwards compatible with the software.

    I guess someone needs to post the entire keynote transcript at some point, for those of you interested in spreading misinformation.

    Many people have said things over a year ago that don't always transpire. I didn't hear anything today that tells me Rift, Rift 2, or whatever you want to call it is nailed on. Releasing Hardware/Software doesn't necessary mean a new headset in the works imo. I heard nothing today about building a successor to the current Rift and until I hear something it's all just speculation..
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