New to the forums? Click here to read the "How To" Guide.

Developer? Click here to go to the Developer Forums.

No more Screen Door Effect (SDE) - new Samsung Odyssey+ introduces perceived 1,233 PPI level res

12346

Comments

  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    edited November 2018
    @Wildt No problem. Convenient to this topic, I just saw that MRTV just posted this a few hours ago.


    I share his experience and it's quite impressive when you consider it only has 2 front facing cameras. Lone Echo/Echo Arena is the only game I play that it's a problem so far. Bow games are no problem as long as you bring the controller back to the camera for each pull which usually happens normally anyway or you don't hold the bow back for more than 2 seconds. You can hold it back if you turn your head so it can see your controller, which is what I have done lol.

    The other weakness is games where you gotta have your hands above you. You kind of have to look up with your head so it can see the controllers up there. I think that's why Oculus went with 4 cameras on the Quest. It'll better cover above you and in front of you, and you'll have the prediction for behind.

  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    I just received my O+ earlier today but haven't yet tried it out due to having dinner and things. I'm going to set it up soon and do some testing against the Rift. Unfortunately I don't have all the VR games everyone plays due to a lot of them just not interesting me. What I do have though, I'll try to give feedback as I can, it all depends if I can pull myself away from playing in the meantime...LOL!!! I did try the O+ on my head to see how comfortable it is (without connecting yet) and find it surprisingly comfortable at least initially so far. Also, light bleed from the sides/nose is immediately noticeable...but I'm use to the Rift light bleed through the nose so not to concerned about that. The light bleed from the side has me concerned though...I'll probably have to create some kind of shades on each side to compensate.

    I have a 1080ti and 8700k so I'll push the O+ to the max and see how things go. No 2080ti for me for now (even tho I can), I just don't think it's worth it yet for this generation. Next gen for me...unless Nvidia can prove the new tech is worth having in VR...and...that there are actually games that will use it...and...that the gouging prices come back down to earth. Anyway, enough of that... Onto the O+
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    I just tried my O+ with Skyrim VR and am a bit disappointed. I agree with pyroth309 that Skyrim VR just doesn't look right using O+ presently. The Rift is leagues ahead in quality running Skyrim VR for some reason. I need to do some research on why there is no aliasing when running Skyrim VR on the Rift, but using the same install running on the O+ there is aliasing galore happening using the identical settings in Steam VR and in game. There is no extra SS happening running on the Rift that I am aware of, but it just looks nearly perfect...and runs like butter compared to the O+.

    On another note, I'm actually able to run both O+ and Rift at the same time on my system after giving it a try since I have 2 HDMI ports on my 1080ti. I actually ran The Lab on the O+ while running Invasion on the Rift. There was absolutely no problems doing so. Mind you I couldn't actually have all 4 controllers in my hands at the same time, but I did have the O+ with it's controllers in my hands while covering the sensor on the Rift to simulate it being worn and all was fine. I also swapped to the Rift going the same and it worked fine. So, if there is enough processing power then 2 HMD's can run at the same time on one system playing 2 different games or software. I'm going to further try this again with the girlfriend to see how it handles when 2 people are actually in VR. This is lots of fun...
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,211 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    It's possible the resolution that the Rift is using is different than what the O+ is using allowing DS making it a bit more sharp or aka free aliasing. 
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    edited November 2018

     No 2080ti for me for now (even tho I can), I just don't think it's worth it yet for this generation. Next gen for me...unless Nvidia can prove the new tech is worth having in VR...and...that there are actually games that will use it...and...that the gouging prices come back down to earth. Anyway, enough of that... Onto the O+
    Yea that's where I'm at. I can afford a 2080Ti, I don't like to just needlessly throw away money if I perceive the value to be poor is all. (We aren't going to talk about the things I do while under the influence though. I actually wasted more money in bars last week than I paid for the Odyssey+)

    I was ready to go all in on a 2080Ti and a Pimax but when I saw how bad the performance is even with a 2080Ti for a lot of games...I'll wait lol. For what I get for that cost, seems like a waste. I was also going to just get a 1080Ti but the prices on those are crazy now too. I'll just go big next tier at least I can justify the jump to myself at that point.

    I just tried my O+ with Skyrim VR and am a bit disappointed. I agree with pyroth309 that Skyrim VR just doesn't look right using O+ presently. The Rift is leagues ahead in quality running Skyrim VR for some reason. I need to do some research on why there is no aliasing when running Skyrim VR on the Rift, but using the same install running on the O+ there is aliasing galore happening using the identical settings in Steam VR and in game. There is no extra SS happening running on the Rift that I am aware of, but it just looks nearly perfect...and runs like butter compared to the O+.


    Yea that's what I was talking about with the hit or miss. When there's aliasing and flickering it's super distracting in the O+ where in the rift, i guess because of the SDE breaking it up, it's not so bothersome. I was able to De-blur some by raising super sampling as high as my GPU could take in SteamVR and turning off dynamic resolution. Also I went in the ini file and increased TAA Sharpening...actually theres' a guide here that shows most of what I did. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1352632127


    Mradr said:
    It's possible the resolution that the Rift is using is different than what the O+ is using allowing DS making it a bit more sharp or aka free aliasing. 
    Exactly, the O+/Vive Pro run at a different resolution. Bethesda barely optimized it for the original Vive lol. For the flickering/Z-Fighting, I had a little success with altering these - https://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:Z-Fighting  It's better but not perfect yet.

    Let me know if you have any success getting it look good. I have it to where I'm not cringing and short to mid looks good but it's still blurry and flickering in the distance.


  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    edited November 2018
    Just tried my extension cable that came in last night. Works great. I tried 3 different types that I had from passive to active and none would stop the static blast I was getting, but this powered one is great if you need one. Now I can finally try out beat saber and the more active games where I have space.




  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    edited November 2018
    Five minutes into Beat Saber... Nope lol. Controllers lose tracking too much on Expert. Even a slight hiccup spoils so yea, no go here for me. Maybe if I had T-rex arms that would stay in the camera but i'm 6'4ish with arms like a 6'8 dude...not happening. I'll reconfig and see but yea, Rift wins in a landslide on that game. The Rift Audio stands out here so much better as well.


  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    pyroth309 said:
    Five minutes into Beat Saber... Nope lol. Controllers lose tracking too much on Expert. Even a slight hiccup spoils so yea, no go here for me. Maybe if I had T-rex arms that would stay in the camera but i'm 6'4ish with arms like a 6'8 dude...not happening. I'll reconfig and see but yea, Rift wins in a landslide on that game. The Rift Audio stands out here so much better as well.


    After trying some things, I ended up 3rd on Living Legend expert with a miss but with Rift I woulda had first by a mile. So it's doable, it's just more challenging and you can't be competitive on all the maps. I'll continue to mess with it though to see how competitive I can get with it.
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    pyroth309 said:

     No 2080ti for me for now (even tho I can), I just don't think it's worth it yet for this generation. Next gen for me...unless Nvidia can prove the new tech is worth having in VR...and...that there are actually games that will use it...and...that the gouging prices come back down to earth. Anyway, enough of that... Onto the O+
    Yea that's where I'm at. I can afford a 2080Ti, I don't like to just needlessly throw away money if I perceive the value to be poor is all. (We aren't going to talk about the things I do while under the influence though. I actually wasted more money in bars last week than I paid for the Odyssey+)

    I was ready to go all in on a 2080Ti and a Pimax but when I saw how bad the performance is even with a 2080Ti for a lot of games...I'll wait lol. For what I get for that cost, seems like a waste. I was also going to just get a 1080Ti but the prices on those are crazy now too. I'll just go big next tier at least I can justify the jump to myself at that point.

    I just tried my O+ with Skyrim VR and am a bit disappointed. I agree with pyroth309 that Skyrim VR just doesn't look right using O+ presently. The Rift is leagues ahead in quality running Skyrim VR for some reason. I need to do some research on why there is no aliasing when running Skyrim VR on the Rift, but using the same install running on the O+ there is aliasing galore happening using the identical settings in Steam VR and in game. There is no extra SS happening running on the Rift that I am aware of, but it just looks nearly perfect...and runs like butter compared to the O+.


    Yea that's what I was talking about with the hit or miss. When there's aliasing and flickering it's super distracting in the O+ where in the rift, i guess because of the SDE breaking it up, it's not so bothersome. I was able to De-blur some by raising super sampling as high as my GPU could take in SteamVR and turning off dynamic resolution. Also I went in the ini file and increased TAA Sharpening...actually theres' a guide here that shows most of what I did. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1352632127


    Mradr said:
    It's possible the resolution that the Rift is using is different than what the O+ is using allowing DS making it a bit more sharp or aka free aliasing. 
    Exactly, the O+/Vive Pro run at a different resolution. Bethesda barely optimized it for the original Vive lol. For the flickering/Z-Fighting, I had a little success with altering these - https://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:Z-Fighting  It's better but not perfect yet.

    Let me know if you have any success getting it look good. I have it to where I'm not cringing and short to mid looks good but it's still blurry and flickering in the distance.


    Yes, my thoughts exactly concerning money well spent. I've had my 1080ti since release and am very happy with it. I consider what I've got out of it money well spent. I was ready to pull the trigger on the 2080ti as soon as it was available but backed away when I jumped off the hipe train and survived...LOL!!!

    I think Mradr is right about the resolution being different. Before I slept last night I was thinking about this exact thing. I think Skyrim VR sets itself up based on the initial HMD resolution when you first install it. I'm going to look into the ini settings to find where the resolution setting for HMD is kept...when I have time...maybe tomorrow. This same thing kind of happens when you run a 2D game on a lower resolution monitor and then try to run it on a higher resolution monitor with the same settings/resolution. The image will look funny due to it not being the native resolution of the higher res monitor.

    I'm also totally finding the sound quality of the Rift headphones far superior to the O+ at least with Skyrim VR so far. Also, Skyrim VR on the O+ for me has me cringing in the bright open areas by being blinded by the concentric rings. They actually rob a good portion of the contrast of the upper portion of the view area...very distracting.

    The controllers are surprisingly okay to me, except the button layout being different for lots of things...a bit confusing. I'm loving the smaller size of the touch controllers though. Oculus has hit these out of the park...I doubt anyone will come close to these anytime soon.

    More later...when I have time...
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • B33rNutB33rNut Posts: 2
    NerveGear
    I just returned my Odyssey+ today to Microsoft. Here is a break down of my experience. The Odyssey+ was my first try at a VR headset since I have just recently gotten a system that could run VR. A MSI GS65 with a 1070 MaxQ. 

    Odyssey+

    So Windows Mixed Reality and the "Cliff House" sucks. Its super basic and while it works its not fun, friendly, or social. It is a 'gets the job done' sorta thing. I hated that. I found my self as quickly as I could going right to my desktop window to launch steam vr in it. Microsofts VR Store is also a total joke and is useless. So I really didn't like the software side to start. 

    When you wear it the foam is exactly like my motorcycle helmet. Firm foam on the forehead. The problem is that 100% of the weight of it is on that one spot on your forehead. No matter how I would wear it I just could not get it to wear weight across the top of my forehead and keep vision. So after 10mins you had a horrible dark red dent in your forehead that would last for 15mins or more. Don't dare play anything where you need to move around or jump or dodge. Damn head thing moves and you lose the lens sweet spot. Crank it tighter and screw up your head more. The back head crank also means you can not lay down with it or have anything behind your head at all. High back chair etc.

    The screen did seem pretty cool, but you could see for sure something there. Like a very very thin silk veil over your eyes. If you tried you can actually focus on it and only see it like it was another layer in front of the screen. The sweet spot in the lens was hard to hit and the dumb head crown design didn't help. You get light leak from the bottom but it was easy to ignore. None on sides. If you tried to wear your headset lower on the back of your head to get weight onto forehead light leak became way worse and lens sweet spot was near impossible to keep. 

    Sound seemed ok no complaints. Headphones moved and fit fine as well. 

    Tracking was super stupid easy to setup. Bedroom to couch to living room mobility is amazing! Having the chaperone outline on the floor at all times was also super nice. As for games most casual stuff worked fine. I am new to vr so no crazy beat saber pro yet. Hotdogs and Horseshoes kinda sucked since the controllers would hit trying to put in clips. I had to flip the gun and let gravity fall the clip into the gun. Then I tried BoxVR. Jab, Cross, and Hook all tracked fine. But I could never land a damn uppercut. When you are looking forward and your hands come from below and up you totally miss them. I had 20% on uppercuts, 80% on hooks, and 100% on jab/cross. So if you need speed tracking at odd angles its might not work well. Samsung was cheap as fuck and the controller wrist straps have no way to tighten to your wrist so they don't really help at all. Controllers eat AA's like a MOFO, 2 at a time as well!

    New headset as well super niche product so no aftermarket stuff yet. VRCover is working on it but I doubt it will ever be popular enough for much else. 

    Oculus 

    So I drove an hour to a Microsoft Store to demo the oculus and possibly return the Samsung. As soon as you touch the oculus you can tell its better. Controllers are better, tracking is better, the face mask feels like a damn pillow compared to the Samsung. I cant believe people complain about the Oculus foam. It is heaven compared to Odyssey+. Head straps are a god send, way way way more comfortable to wear and feels good. Sound actually seems better as well. Wrist straps have wrist locks! Software is miles better, friend lists, homes, desktop dash system all better there. 

    Now for what you are all going to hate me for.. I actually think the Oculus screen for games is just as good if not better than the Odyssey+. I haven't watched any movies yet so no word there. But with some supersampling on my Oculus and walking around Coco VR I really can't tell at all. The difference is so super tiny you have to really be picky about it. The slightly distracting veil of the odyssey+ is gone and. while there is the tiniest of SDE on the Oculus you cant even really see it unless you try hard to do so. I put off buying a Oculus for years because people said it was like a "screen door" or "wearing a bee keeper" hat which is total bullcrap. By not having the layer before the screen on the Oculus it is actually easier to focus and less distracting. 

    If you want a screen for movies and porn maybe get the Odyssey+, but if you think games will actually look crazy different I really dont see a major enough change to have to deal with all of the other downfalls of the WMR setup. I had to return my $299 Odyssey+ and I missed the Oculus sale today so I had to pay the full $400 and it is totally worth it. That Odyssey+ felt like it should be cheaper $299 is probably the fair price for it. Don't believe the crazy hype.


  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 391
    Nexus 6
    thanks beer nut. good review.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 1,780 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    B33rNut said:
    I just returned my Odyssey+ today to Microsoft. Here is a break down of my experience. The Odyssey+ was my first try at a VR headset since I have just recently gotten a system that could run VR. A MSI GS65 with a 1070 MaxQ. 

    Odyssey+

    So Windows Mixed Reality and the "Cliff House" sucks. Its super basic and while it works its not fun, friendly, or social. It is a 'gets the job done' sorta thing. I hated that. I found my self as quickly as I could going right to my desktop window to launch steam vr in it. Microsofts VR Store is also a total joke and is useless. So I really didn't like the software side to start. 

    When you wear it the foam is exactly like my motorcycle helmet. Firm foam on the forehead. The problem is that 100% of the weight of it is on that one spot on your forehead. No matter how I would wear it I just could not get it to wear weight across the top of my forehead and keep vision. So after 10mins you had a horrible dark red dent in your forehead that would last for 15mins or more. Don't dare play anything where you need to move around or jump or dodge. Damn head thing moves and you lose the lens sweet spot. Crank it tighter and screw up your head more. The back head crank also means you can not lay down with it or have anything behind your head at all. High back chair etc.

    The screen did seem pretty cool, but you could see for sure something there. Like a very very thin silk veil over your eyes. If you tried you can actually focus on it and only see it like it was another layer in front of the screen. The sweet spot in the lens was hard to hit and the dumb head crown design didn't help. You get light leak from the bottom but it was easy to ignore. None on sides. If you tried to wear your headset lower on the back of your head to get weight onto forehead light leak became way worse and lens sweet spot was near impossible to keep. 

    Sound seemed ok no complaints. Headphones moved and fit fine as well. 

    Tracking was super stupid easy to setup. Bedroom to couch to living room mobility is amazing! Having the chaperone outline on the floor at all times was also super nice. As for games most casual stuff worked fine. I am new to vr so no crazy beat saber pro yet. Hotdogs and Horseshoes kinda sucked since the controllers would hit trying to put in clips. I had to flip the gun and let gravity fall the clip into the gun. Then I tried BoxVR. Jab, Cross, and Hook all tracked fine. But I could never land a damn uppercut. When you are looking forward and your hands come from below and up you totally miss them. I had 20% on uppercuts, 80% on hooks, and 100% on jab/cross. So if you need speed tracking at odd angles its might not work well. Samsung was cheap as fuck and the controller wrist straps have no way to tighten to your wrist so they don't really help at all. Controllers eat AA's like a MOFO, 2 at a time as well!

    New headset as well super niche product so no aftermarket stuff yet. VRCover is working on it but I doubt it will ever be popular enough for much else. 

    Oculus 

    So I drove an hour to a Microsoft Store to demo the oculus and possibly return the Samsung. As soon as you touch the oculus you can tell its better. Controllers are better, tracking is better, the face mask feels like a damn pillow compared to the Samsung. I cant believe people complain about the Oculus foam. It is heaven compared to Odyssey+. Head straps are a god send, way way way more comfortable to wear and feels good. Sound actually seems better as well. Wrist straps have wrist locks! Software is miles better, friend lists, homes, desktop dash system all better there. 

    Now for what you are all going to hate me for.. I actually think the Oculus screen for games is just as good if not better than the Odyssey+. I haven't watched any movies yet so no word there. But with some supersampling on my Oculus and walking around Coco VR I really can't tell at all. The difference is so super tiny you have to really be picky about it. The slightly distracting veil of the odyssey+ is gone and. while there is the tiniest of SDE on the Oculus you cant even really see it unless you try hard to do so. I put off buying a Oculus for years because people said it was like a "screen door" or "wearing a bee keeper" hat which is total bullcrap. By not having the layer before the screen on the Oculus it is actually easier to focus and less distracting. 

    If you want a screen for movies and porn maybe get the Odyssey+, but if you think games will actually look crazy different I really dont see a major enough change to have to deal with all of the other downfalls of the WMR setup. I had to return my $299 Odyssey+ and I missed the Oculus sale today so I had to pay the full $400 and it is totally worth it. That Odyssey+ felt like it should be cheaper $299 is probably the fair price for it. Don't believe the crazy hype.


    I kinda made a deal with myself, if I won a 4K Spidey book yesterday I wouldn't purchase Odyssey+ - unfortunately someone bid $100 more on the book than me, so I lost it 3 AM this morning, but at least I made the winner bleed quite a bit ;-) Then I won two other Spidey books for 3K combined, so I still got 1K in reserve - and then I was getting ready to contact Big Apple Buddy - and then I read your review :#

    I'm more or less back to square one, and I truly love my Rift - apart from the God rays and the SDE, which never distract me (much) while gaming, I have no issues with the Rift.

    Guess I'll wait some more, would love to hear more about the CV2 soon - maybe I should buy some more games and apps - maybe I should just sit down on A Chair in a Room and think things over... ;)

    And the one who got away :'(   

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    edited November 2018
    B33rNut said:

    Oculus 

    So I drove an hour to a Microsoft Store to demo the oculus and possibly return the Samsung. As soon as you touch the oculus you can tell its better. Controllers are better, tracking is better, the face mask feels like a damn pillow compared to the Samsung. I cant believe people complain about the Oculus foam. It is heaven compared to Odyssey+. Head straps are a god send, way way way more comfortable to wear and feels good. Sound actually seems better as well. Wrist straps have wrist locks! Software is miles better, friend lists, homes, desktop dash system all better there. 

    Now for what you are all going to hate me for.. I actually think the Oculus screen for games is just as good if not better than the Odyssey+. I haven't watched any movies yet so no word there. But with some supersampling on my Oculus and walking around Coco VR I really can't tell at all. The difference is so super tiny you have to really be picky about it. The slightly distracting veil of the odyssey+ is gone and. while there is the tiniest of SDE on the Oculus you cant even really see it unless you try hard to do so. I put off buying a Oculus for years because people said it was like a "screen door" or "wearing a bee keeper" hat which is total bullcrap. By not having the layer before the screen on the Oculus it is actually easier to focus and less distracting. 

    If you want a screen for movies and porn maybe get the Odyssey+, but if you think games will actually look crazy different I really dont see a major enough change to have to deal with all of the other downfalls of the WMR setup. I had to return my $299 Odyssey+ and I missed the Oculus sale today so I had to pay the full $400 and it is totally worth it. That Odyssey+ felt like it should be cheaper $299 is probably the fair price for it. Don't believe the crazy hype.


    I agree with most of what you said which is why I responded earlier in the thread that the Oculus is an objectively better device. I also agree that the layer you're referring to, the concentric rings, are annoying and in some games make things unplayable. I don't have the forehead pressure some talk about and I assume it's because it fits me properly. I've worn it for 5 hours straight and was still comfortable with no red marks on me.

    As a guy who has had the Oculus since a couple of months after Touch came out, there's definitely some pros and cons to the O+ screens. I already went in detail earlier in thread but I'll just say that the colors are way better in the O+ and the SDE on the Oculus is a problem on bright games where the light gaps really stand out. (Arizona Sunshine in the bright canyon areas is a good example) On darker games, like the Blu or Aircar for example, SDE is almost nonexistant and the difference between the headsets is very minor. I find it easier to get immersed in the rift than the Odyssey despite the SDE issues. The flickering is a serious issue on several games for the O+...but where it works well it's really incredible.

    Yea, I still haven't messed around with the cliff house much other than to set my floor level which is nice that you can manually adjust it. I spend all my time in SteamVR. I'm using the skyscraper one instead of the cliff house and it's a bit nicer. Seems like they're trying to make it useful to use your PC from in cliff house. I'll have to spend some time with it when I'm really bored.

    But overall I do agree that for what you get from the rift everywhere else, it's a better bargain and overall a better device. But for me, since it fits, the O+ is a great complimentary device since I can run all the games that don't work well on Rift and use it for movie watching. It's also become my preferred headset for seated games where it works well.

    It's also nice to get a glimpse into the future of having clear displays in VR. We just need Oculus or Valve or someone to put all of this together in one device without fresnel lenses. 
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 1,780 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018

    In case someone else is interested (in the EU) - I got Big Apple Buddy to add the $299 Odyssey+ so - when it becomes available again - it may be ordered here:

    https://shop.bigapplebuddy.com/product/Miscellaneous/253/Samsung-HMD-Odyssey-Black-Friday-Deal-Conditions-Apply-/

    Shipping is about $60 (for the most inexpensive FedEx shipping). They also have the $499 version - in total $678 in my case. $200 off would probably get it down to $450. 

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • B33rNutB33rNut Posts: 2
    NerveGear
    pyroth309 said:
    B33rNut said:

    Oculus 

    So I drove an hour to a Microsoft Store to demo the oculus and possibly return the Samsung. As soon as you touch the oculus you can tell its better. Controllers are better, tracking is better, the face mask feels like a damn pillow compared to the Samsung. I cant believe people complain about the Oculus foam. It is heaven compared to Odyssey+. Head straps are a god send, way way way more comfortable to wear and feels good. Sound actually seems better as well. Wrist straps have wrist locks! Software is miles better, friend lists, homes, desktop dash system all better there. 

    Now for what you are all going to hate me for.. I actually think the Oculus screen for games is just as good if not better than the Odyssey+. I haven't watched any movies yet so no word there. But with some supersampling on my Oculus and walking around Coco VR I really can't tell at all. The difference is so super tiny you have to really be picky about it. The slightly distracting veil of the odyssey+ is gone and. while there is the tiniest of SDE on the Oculus you cant even really see it unless you try hard to do so. I put off buying a Oculus for years because people said it was like a "screen door" or "wearing a bee keeper" hat which is total bullcrap. By not having the layer before the screen on the Oculus it is actually easier to focus and less distracting. 

    If you want a screen for movies and porn maybe get the Odyssey+, but if you think games will actually look crazy different I really dont see a major enough change to have to deal with all of the other downfalls of the WMR setup. I had to return my $299 Odyssey+ and I missed the Oculus sale today so I had to pay the full $400 and it is totally worth it. That Odyssey+ felt like it should be cheaper $299 is probably the fair price for it. Don't believe the crazy hype.


    I agree with most of what you said which is why I responded earlier in the thread that the Oculus is an objectively better device. I also agree that the layer you're referring to, the concentric rings, are annoying and in some games make things unplayable. I don't have the forehead pressure some talk about and I assume it's because it fits me properly. I've worn it for 5 hours straight and was still comfortable with no red marks on me.

    As a guy who has had the Oculus since a couple of months after Touch came out, there's definitely some pros and cons to the O+ screens. I already went in detail earlier in thread but I'll just say that the colors are way better in the O+ and the SDE on the Oculus is a problem on bright games where the light gaps really stand out. (Arizona Sunshine in the bright canyon areas is a good example) On darker games, like the Blu or Aircar for example, SDE is almost nonexistant and the difference between the headsets is very minor. I find it easier to get immersed in the rift than the Odyssey despite the SDE issues. The flickering is a serious issue on several games for the O+...but where it works well it's really incredible.

    Yea, I still haven't messed around with the cliff house much other than to set my floor level which is nice that you can manually adjust it. I spend all my time in SteamVR. I'm using the skyscraper one instead of the cliff house and it's a bit nicer. Seems like they're trying to make it useful to use your PC from in cliff house. I'll have to spend some time with it when I'm really bored.

    But overall I do agree that for what you get from the rift everywhere else, it's a better bargain and overall a better device. But for me, since it fits, the O+ is a great complimentary device since I can run all the games that don't work well on Rift and use it for movie watching. It's also become my preferred headset for seated games where it works well.

    It's also nice to get a glimpse into the future of having clear displays in VR. We just need Oculus or Valve or someone to put all of this together in one device without fresnel lenses. 

    I think CV2 when we get it will be amazing but my guess it won't be until next Christmas. The major money is in mass-market iPads for your face like the Go. So that is going to be their first priority for awhile. 

    I am amazed it fit you well like that. 5hrs in the Odyssey and I would have been literally dead on the floor. I was home for thanksgiving and with 5 family members and 3 generations all trying it out and it didn't fit anyone. You either had the red forehead damage or forehead and nose. No-one was able to do anything for more than 15mins of demoing. Like ok this is fun but get this thing off my head. 


  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    B33rNut said:
    I just returned my Odyssey+ today to Microsoft. Here is a break down of my experience. The Odyssey+ was my first try at a VR headset since I have just recently gotten a system that could run VR. A MSI GS65 with a 1070 MaxQ. 

    Odyssey+

    So Windows Mixed Reality and the "Cliff House" sucks. Its super basic and while it works its not fun, friendly, or social. It is a 'gets the job done' sorta thing. I hated that. I found my self as quickly as I could going right to my desktop window to launch steam vr in it. Microsofts VR Store is also a total joke and is useless. So I really didn't like the software side to start. 

    When you wear it the foam is exactly like my motorcycle helmet. Firm foam on the forehead. The problem is that 100% of the weight of it is on that one spot on your forehead. No matter how I would wear it I just could not get it to wear weight across the top of my forehead and keep vision. So after 10mins you had a horrible dark red dent in your forehead that would last for 15mins or more. Don't dare play anything where you need to move around or jump or dodge. Damn head thing moves and you lose the lens sweet spot. Crank it tighter and screw up your head more. The back head crank also means you can not lay down with it or have anything behind your head at all. High back chair etc.

    The screen did seem pretty cool, but you could see for sure something there. Like a very very thin silk veil over your eyes. If you tried you can actually focus on it and only see it like it was another layer in front of the screen. The sweet spot in the lens was hard to hit and the dumb head crown design didn't help. You get light leak from the bottom but it was easy to ignore. None on sides. If you tried to wear your headset lower on the back of your head to get weight onto forehead light leak became way worse and lens sweet spot was near impossible to keep. 

    Sound seemed ok no complaints. Headphones moved and fit fine as well. 

    Tracking was super stupid easy to setup. Bedroom to couch to living room mobility is amazing! Having the chaperone outline on the floor at all times was also super nice. As for games most casual stuff worked fine. I am new to vr so no crazy beat saber pro yet. Hotdogs and Horseshoes kinda sucked since the controllers would hit trying to put in clips. I had to flip the gun and let gravity fall the clip into the gun. Then I tried BoxVR. Jab, Cross, and Hook all tracked fine. But I could never land a damn uppercut. When you are looking forward and your hands come from below and up you totally miss them. I had 20% on uppercuts, 80% on hooks, and 100% on jab/cross. So if you need speed tracking at odd angles its might not work well. Samsung was cheap as fuck and the controller wrist straps have no way to tighten to your wrist so they don't really help at all. Controllers eat AA's like a MOFO, 2 at a time as well!

    New headset as well super niche product so no aftermarket stuff yet. VRCover is working on it but I doubt it will ever be popular enough for much else. 

    Oculus 

    So I drove an hour to a Microsoft Store to demo the oculus and possibly return the Samsung. As soon as you touch the oculus you can tell its better. Controllers are better, tracking is better, the face mask feels like a damn pillow compared to the Samsung. I cant believe people complain about the Oculus foam. It is heaven compared to Odyssey+. Head straps are a god send, way way way more comfortable to wear and feels good. Sound actually seems better as well. Wrist straps have wrist locks! Software is miles better, friend lists, homes, desktop dash system all better there. 

    Now for what you are all going to hate me for.. I actually think the Oculus screen for games is just as good if not better than the Odyssey+. I haven't watched any movies yet so no word there. But with some supersampling on my Oculus and walking around Coco VR I really can't tell at all. The difference is so super tiny you have to really be picky about it. The slightly distracting veil of the odyssey+ is gone and. while there is the tiniest of SDE on the Oculus you cant even really see it unless you try hard to do so. I put off buying a Oculus for years because people said it was like a "screen door" or "wearing a bee keeper" hat which is total bullcrap. By not having the layer before the screen on the Oculus it is actually easier to focus and less distracting. 

    If you want a screen for movies and porn maybe get the Odyssey+, but if you think games will actually look crazy different I really dont see a major enough change to have to deal with all of the other downfalls of the WMR setup. I had to return my $299 Odyssey+ and I missed the Oculus sale today so I had to pay the full $400 and it is totally worth it. That Odyssey+ felt like it should be cheaper $299 is probably the fair price for it. Don't believe the crazy hype.



    I also, agree with some of the issues you have with O+ but for me most of them are fine. I don't like the concentric rings (veil) in front of my eyes in bright places either. It's very distracting. I've had my Rift + touch from almost the beginning and have to say it is definitely the superior product overall. I also bought the O+ to complement the Rift so I'm fine with the shortfalls.

    Super-sampling on the Rift when setup properly is very tough to beat. Skyrim VR on my Rift system with 140+ mods, visually is next to incredible. As I have just received my O+, I still have to figure out how to get it looking proper. I still get blown away though at some of the visuals in modded Skyrim VR on the Rift...and I've logged 466+ modded hrs in that so far.

    You're gonna love the Rift...
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    Yeah I don't know. I fully expected to have to hack on this thing and make it comfortable after reading all of the negative reviews about the fit, but it fits me great. I guess whoever they used to shape it had a similar head to me.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    Super-sampling on the Rift when setup properly is very tough to beat. Skyrim VR on my Rift system with 140+ mods, visually is next to incredible. As I have just received my O+, I still have to figure out how to get it looking proper. I still get blown away though at some of the visuals in modded Skyrim VR on the Rift...and I've logged 466+ modded hrs in that so far.

    You're gonna love the Rift...
    Yeah that's the biggest disappointment for me so far with the Odyssey is Skyrim looking so blurry. I have something like a hundred thirty mods in my Skyrim myself and it looks better in the Rift so far. I stepped in the Fallout 4 and only got to the character creation and it worked fine up to that point. Hopefully it works better in there, I plan to find out this weekend.
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    pyroth309 said:
    Super-sampling on the Rift when setup properly is very tough to beat. Skyrim VR on my Rift system with 140+ mods, visually is next to incredible. As I have just received my O+, I still have to figure out how to get it looking proper. I still get blown away though at some of the visuals in modded Skyrim VR on the Rift...and I've logged 466+ modded hrs in that so far.

    You're gonna love the Rift...
    Yeah that's the biggest disappointment for me so far with the Odyssey is Skyrim looking so blurry. I have something like a hundred thirty mods in my Skyrim myself and it looks better in the Rift so far. I stepped in the Fallout 4 and only got to the character creation and it worked fine up to that point. Hopefully it works better in there, I plan to find out this weekend.
    I just installed O+ and Skyrim VR on my 980ti machine to see if there is any visual difference installing Skyrim VR with O+ only connected to it...but sadly there isn't any difference. I'm convinced Oculus software is doing something extra with the image on certain games like Skyrim VR (maybe some kind of anti-aliasing for DOF or something)...they are leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else with their software running VR. It wouldn't surprise me for them to do something and not let anyone know...to keep ahead... Looks like I'm only going to be using the Rift for Skyrim VR...those O+ concentric rings are driving me insane in Skyrim VR.
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 1,780 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    B33rNut said:
    I was home for thanksgiving and with 5 family members and 3 generations all trying it out and it didn't fit anyone. You either had the red forehead damage or forehead and nose. No-one was able to do anything for more than 15mins of demoing. Like ok this is fun but get this thing off my head. 

    You're not exactly making it easy to convince myself to pay twice the amount for the Odyssey+ compared to US citizens - plus having to give up the possibility to return it if it doesn't fit...  :s 

    BTW, I found out what's Samsung's main problem! - I found the dude Samsung used as a model to optimize Odyssey+ ergonomics! 


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    WTF how'd you find my pic!

    On a serious note, i have a normal enough shaped head, it's just a larger one because I'm 6'4 lol. Size matters!
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    Rotfl......

    I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    edited November 2018
    Rotfl......

    I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!
    Yea, if you push the rift to its limits, the difference isn't big for me. The only wow factor of the odyssey is having more color, clear graphics at short range, and being able to watch movies without SDE annoyances/god rays. Because of the blur, the resolution difference is pretty minor. I've compared how far I can see in games and read text and it's almost insignificantly farther in the O+. And as we've already beat to death, several games have problems in the O+ that the rift doesn't have. 

    ASW is an advantage for the Rift right now since you can supersample a higher percentage. I think WMR will get steam's new Motion Smoothing tech eventually which will even that gap some but I haven't really noticed much difference when I supersample 140 or 180 other than the FPS dropping. I still need to do an extreme test and see how graphics look with like 300% supersample to see if it's even worth messing with. 

    Also this is a great post on it.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/9z997a/psa_new_samsung_odyssey_owners_check_your/

    *edit* I was looking at it wrong. 

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 1,780 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    Rotfl......

    I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!

    I know it's subjective, but last evening I tried to make a fun experiment with the Rift ss 1.6 (Seeking Dawn) to 2.0 (other games) just trying to get an idea of perceived depth. I really don't have a problem with depth perception using the Rift - I feel I can see at least 50 meters away - probably even more in for example Evasion - without feeling that distant objects appear blurry. But of course the SDE does have it's impact and becomes a large part of small distant objects. In short, as long as high levels of ss is possible on the Rift, I really don't have any issues with depth perception. 
    Also perceived sharpness and perceived depth are two different things - I guess it's fair to assume that O+ is about 80% sharper than the Rift - when comparing native Rift res to native O+ res. But it doesn't mean you can zoom out without losing image quality 80% more on the O+. If fact increased depth is much less - after a rather long article comparing image sharpness vs. depth (in Quake and Serious Sam) we found:

    Increase in perceived sharpness = (Image1 height x width in pixels) / (image2 height x width in pixels). In this case O+ could be 1 and Rift could 2 - rather straight forward. Anti-SDE may of course increase perceived image quality even further in this case - maybe. 

    But when you increase the resolution in 3D games, you also increase the depth, although depth works differently:

    Increase in depth = ((image1 height x width in pixels) / (image2 height x width in pixels))^0.5. Note that ^0.5 is the same as the square root. 

    This explain why 80% res increase only results in about 30% increased depth. And that may explain why, as noted in this thread, that going from Rift to O+ doesn't provide much extra depth perception. But image sharpness ought to be a lot better - when comparing native O+ res vs. native Rift res (thus keeping ss out of the picture ;-).

    So this is how far you can zoom out while maintaining perfect texture quality in Quake in 320x200:



    And this is how far you can zoom out while maintaining perfect texture quality in Quake in 640x480:



    Thus 4 x increase in res is equal to 2 x increase in depth. 

    Source: http://www.hardwaretidende.dk/hard/artikel/03/03/27/6654828 (text in Danish)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    edited November 2018
    @RuneSR2 That makes sense. It's also hard to do an objective 1 to 1 comparison for me because I have to unhook and then swap headsets. I kinda wish I had a second VR capable PC handy to do some hot swaps almost instantly for a more accurate comparison between the two. Significant time passes by the time I get swapped. 

    The only game I've attempted to run at 200% SS was Skyrim and it's got some Blur problems so it didn't really lead to any conclusions. I need to find a neutral graphical game that is optimized and works well for both headsets on SteamVR and that has a lot of detail that Supersampling would stand out on to do a decent comparison. Any suggestions welcomed on that.
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    pyroth309 said:
    Rotfl......

    I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!
    Yea, if you push the rift to its limits, the difference isn't big for me. The only wow factor of the odyssey is having more color, clear graphics at short range, and being able to watch movies without SDE annoyances/god rays. Because of the blur, the resolution difference is pretty minor. I've compared how far I can see in games and read text and it's almost insignificantly farther in the O+. And as we've already beat to death, several games have problems in the O+ that the rift doesn't have. 

    ASW is an advantage for the Rift right now since you can supersample a higher percentage. I think WMR will get steam's new Motion Smoothing tech eventually which will even that gap some but I haven't really noticed much difference when I supersample 140 or 180 other than the FPS dropping. I still need to do an extreme test and see how graphics look with like 300% supersample to see if it's even worth messing with. 

    Also this is a great post on it.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/9z997a/psa_new_samsung_odyssey_owners_check_your/

    *edit* I was looking at it wrong. 


    Steam VR says 200% recommended for the O+ on my 1080ti - 8700k system. On my 980ti - 4690K system it says 152% for the O+.

    I've tried the 300% in Skyrim VR on the O+ and did see a bit less anti-aliasing but the fps got a bit choppy when I moved around my followers, but probably only because I'm running 4k textures on all my 4 followers...LOL!!! Everything else did seem to be still smooth though for fps. I then tried 400%, and that made anti-aliasing even better but the fps dropped quite a bit on everything and the jerkiness isn't worth it.
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    RuneSR2 said:
    Rotfl......

    I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!

    I know it's subjective, but last evening I tried to make a fun experiment with the Rift ss 1.6 (Seeking Dawn) to 2.0 (other games) just trying to get an idea of perceived depth. I really don't have a problem with depth perception using the Rift - I feel I can see at least 50 meters away - probably even more in for example Evasion - without feeling that distant objects appear blurry. But of course the SDE does have it's impact and becomes a large part of small distant objects. In short, as long as high levels of ss is possible on the Rift, I really don't have any issues with depth perception. 
    Also perceived sharpness and perceived depth are two different things - I guess it's fair to assume that O+ is about 80% sharper than the Rift - when comparing native Rift res to native O+ res. But it doesn't mean you can zoom out without losing image quality 80% more on the O+. If fact increased depth is much less - after a rather long article comparing image sharpness vs. depth (in Quake and Serious Sam) we found:

    Increase in perceived sharpness = (Image1 height x width in pixels) / (image2 height x width in pixels). In this case O+ could be 1 and Rift could 2 - rather straight forward. Anti-SDE may of course increase perceived image quality even further in this case - maybe. 

    But when you increase the resolution in 3D games, you also increase the depth, although depth works differently:

    Increase in depth = ((image1 height x width in pixels) / (image2 height x width in pixels))^0.5. Note that ^0.5 is the same as the square root. 

    This explain why 80% res increase only results in about 30% increased depth. And that may explain why, as noted in this thread, that going from Rift to O+ doesn't provide much extra depth perception. But image sharpness ought to be a lot better - when comparing native O+ res vs. native Rift res (thus keeping ss out of the picture ;-).

    So this is how far you can zoom out while maintaining perfect texture quality in Quake in 320x200:



    And this is how far you can zoom out while maintaining perfect texture quality in Quake in 640x480:



    Thus 4 x increase in res is equal to 2 x increase in depth. 

    Source: http://www.hardwaretidende.dk/hard/artikel/03/03/27/6654828 (text in Danish)

    This totally makes sense.
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 984
    3Jane
    pyroth309 said:
    Rotfl......

    I'm noticing that the Rift with SS maxed is nearly as good as the O+ for visuals...other than the SDE...which disappears immediately on the Rift after getting use to it. I installed Revive and ran a couple of Oculus games on the O+ and while it was awesome...it didn't have the same wow factor as when I first got the Rift. I think Oculus wants to bring the 'wow' factor again when they release the next PC-HMD...maybe that's why it's taking a bit longer!!! A small increase in resolution isn't enough for that to happen imo. Mind you I'll take it if they provide it!!!
    Yea, if you push the rift to its limits, the difference isn't big for me. The only wow factor of the odyssey is having more color, clear graphics at short range, and being able to watch movies without SDE annoyances/god rays. Because of the blur, the resolution difference is pretty minor. I've compared how far I can see in games and read text and it's almost insignificantly farther in the O+. And as we've already beat to death, several games have problems in the O+ that the rift doesn't have. 

    ASW is an advantage for the Rift right now since you can supersample a higher percentage. I think WMR will get steam's new Motion Smoothing tech eventually which will even that gap some but I haven't really noticed much difference when I supersample 140 or 180 other than the FPS dropping. I still need to do an extreme test and see how graphics look with like 300% supersample to see if it's even worth messing with. 

    Also this is a great post on it.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/WindowsMR/comments/9z997a/psa_new_samsung_odyssey_owners_check_your/

    *edit* I was looking at it wrong. 


    Steam VR says 200% recommended for the O+ on my 1080ti - 8700k system. On my 980ti - 4690K system it says 152% for the O+.

    I've tried the 300% in Skyrim VR on the O+ and did see a bit less anti-aliasing but the fps got a bit choppy when I moved around my followers, but probably only because I'm running 4k textures on all my 4 followers...LOL!!! Everything else did seem to be still smooth though for fps. I then tried 400%, and that made anti-aliasing even better but the fps dropped quite a bit on everything and the jerkiness isn't worth it.
    Yea, I think Skyrim is a really bad game to test it on because of the blur.
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    I'm not quite sure what I did (spent 1/2 the day tweaking things in the ini's for Skyrim VR) but I got Skyrim VR looking nearly as good on the O+ as the Rift. Still a tiny bit of aliasing but nowhere near as bad as it was. It's actually pleasant to look at now. Problem is, now the performance isn't where I want it to be. In most places I get 90fps, but when I go to somewhere like Falkreath my fps tanks and things get quite jerky. On the Rift I do get some fps issues in Falkreath but not to this extent. I think it's the extra res of the O+ but I have to do more research. When I go back to using the Rift the game looks incredible (SDE really stands out though compared to O+) and my performance is liquid smooth everywhere.

    I also think the performance difference presently is due to not using Steam VR on the Rift but using OpenOVR instead. I wish OpenOVR worked with the O+ but as far as I know it's only designed to work with Oculus software.

    One thing I do know I did was force AF to 16x in Global in the Nvidia Control panel. That seemed to make distant textures more clear. I did tweak a bunch of ini's for tree's to. I'll try to figure out what I did and post the results later. Looks like there is hope in makes Skyrim VR look like it does no the Rift after all.
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 213
    Nexus 6
    proth309: Are you using DynoDOLOD yet? I've been doing some reading and haven't gotten this done on my system yet. It apparently makes the game look even more incredible for distant objects based on what mods one is using and the settings one chooses, I'm just not there yet with the time to want to try it yet. I will soon though.

    I'm kind of at the point where even though the O+ has the better screen, FOV, etc... I'm going to stick to playing Skyrim VR on the Rift due to the huge amount of performance headroom still available even when you mod the snot out of it. The O+ having to rely on sh*tty Steam VR, WMR sucks all the performance headroom available. Until either Steam VR smartens up or OpenOVR becomes available for use on WMR I have to say heavy modding on the O+ is not fully doable yet do to performance reasons (that coming from a 1080ti OC'd + 8700k OC'd). To get O+ looking anywhere near the Rift one has to SS the Sh*t out of it which also sucks any performance headroom available for demanding mods.

    I even went as far as dropping the Steam VR SS to the equivalent of the Rift for running the O+ but the fps still sucked, and the visuals looked horrible. Steam VR just sucks, Oculus software shows how far ahead it is performance comparing. I'm really looking forward to what Oculus will be offering in the future, just because of their software. The software is what will keep me using their product...unless anyone else can prove they can do the same or better, I'm doubtful though.
    i7 8700k @ 5ghz, Asus Rog Strix Z370-E Gaming, MSI 1080ti Gaming X @ 2050Ghz + 11.4Ghz ram, 16 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2666 Ghz, Adata SX900 SSD, Adata SX6000NP M.2 SSD, Adata SU650 SSD, Toshiba 3TB HD, Oculus Rift, Odyssey Plus, Windows 10 Pro 1803
Sign In or Register to comment.