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Would a bigger television get me back into Pancake gaming?

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  • ohgrantohgrant Posts: 158
    Art3mis
    edited October 2018
    RedRizla said:
    @RuneSR2 - I'm usually capable of making my own decisions in life, but you've just made me feel like I hate playing games on a screen again. Just when others were convincing me it's still good to play on a monitor. Please tell me it's great to play on a monitor :D

    @ohgrant - I thought Tridef had stopped supporting 3D games along time ago? I know you can play Metro with Tridef, but with newer games I thought they didn't support them anymore? I have a Optoma GT 1080 Darbee projector, but how do you get it to play games in 3D, if they aren't made in for 3D? I might start playing them on my projector if I know how to get none 3D games working in 3D?





    Tridef main product was their 3D ignition driver. That was supported until the end. Unfortunately, Tridef closed the store about a month in a half ago. Looks like Tridef is as dead as IZ3D.  When my motherboard goes, my lifetime license for Tridef dies with it.  
     
     What you should do next depends on your video card. If you have a Nvidia card. Their native 3D driver is probably the most advanced and has been in constant development since they acquired it from 3D FX many moons ago. If your projector is not on the list of supported list, you may have to mod a DVI adapter removing a few pins.Let me know if that the route you want to try and I'll dig that info up.

     I think you can still download the 14 day free trial of Tridef. https://www.tridef.com/download  .For Radeon's, you can go HDMI out direct, but you have to have the Tridef driver set to AMD for that. The 3D driver should then just auto launch as 3D when you run it through the Tridef CP. I get better 3D results by going DVI out and setting the driver to Side by Side and manually invoke the driver in the projector.  

     Another driver that you can try but is also no longer available for purchase is IZ3D. They supported DX 8-11. Also set the driver in side by side on this one. https://3dgeeks.com/files_details/iz3d_driver.html

     As far as they aren't made for 3D. All accelerated graphics games are theoretically 3D ready. Here are some examples.

    With the IZ3D driver
    Far Cry https://www.dropbox.com/s/wlejw6858d7h2sb/FarCry #0016.jps?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/c6a6oqa2rjclb6y/FarCry #0017.jps?dl=0

     Half-Life2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/3mp9ep2yjahhgj7/Half-Life 2 #0011.jps?dl=0

    Vampire the Masquerade https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzymtkfnegxk34d/vampire #0000.jps?dl=0

    This was from the old nVidia 3D consumer driver. The last of the original X-wing Tie series. X-Wing Alliance.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/o4x4tvsk71s2wt5/XWingAlliance11_50.jps?dl=0

    You can view these in 3D using Big Screen or Virtual desktop. Set to side by side. You may have to invert/swap eyes on the A-Wing one. 


     
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    That would be sad if the TriDef driver is really dead. It was nice quality and worked on all GPUs. Though, to be honest, I rarely play with 3D glasses anymore, except sometimes for watching 3D Blu-Rays.
    AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i
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  • jayhawkjayhawk Posts: 783
    3Jane
    jayhawk said:
    When I was using the DK2 I swore I'd never play flat screen gaming again. Now that's all I do. I'm entirely bored with VR, I've got like 6 games I've bought and never played. Doubt I'll really have much to do with it again until gen2. I do still like to read forums and articles though.

    What games you into? There's dozens of great games to play right now.
    I actually like the more in depth sit down types, like Chronos. My best VR experience is still Alien Isolation, and it wasn't even official lol. I've been gaming for 3 decades that has always involved sitting, I'm still kind of into sitting. One of my biggest issues with VR is it really didn't go the direction I was hoping it would. I want to still play all those flat screen AAA titles, but in VR. VR still gets ignored.
  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 453
    Trinity
    With VR you become the character instantly, but you could easily tell yourself you are not the character like you can on a monitor. You're not really holding a riffle in Onward, it's just an illusion.
    You could, but not as easily as on 2D gaming ^^'. In VR you are synchronized with the character (at least a bit). In 2D, you're not in sync at all. Whatever is on the right of your character is not on your own right. Whatever awesome super stylish action your character does, you don't do it yourself.
    In the case of Onward, you may not be holding an actual rifle, but you do hold something (the controllers), in the position you would be with a real rifle. You're not sitting on your couch in the middle of a war.

     Unfortunately, I am not able to play on a 27 " monitor though and I can't be certain what puts me off doing this.

    Of course it's all down to your own opinion ^^. If small screens are really something you can't stand, a bigger screen will help you. But in any other case, changing the screen size won't help much as it doesn't really change the situation.
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,032 Valuable Player
    edited October 2018
    With VR you become the character instantly, but you could easily tell yourself you are not the character like you can on a monitor. You're not really holding a riffle in Onward, it's just an illusion.
    You could, but not as easily as on 2D gaming ^^'. In VR you are synchronized with the character (at least a bit). In 2D, you're not in sync at all. Whatever is on the right of your character is not on your own right. Whatever awesome super stylish action your character does, you don't do it yourself.
    In the case of Onward, you may not be holding an actual rifle, but you do hold something (the controllers), in the position you would be with a real rifle. You're not sitting on your couch in the middle of a war.

     Unfortunately, I am not able to play on a 27 " monitor though and I can't be certain what puts me off doing this.

    Of course it's all down to your own opinion ^^. If small screens are really something you can't stand, a bigger screen will help you. But in any other case, changing the screen size won't help much as it doesn't really change the situation.

    You are synced with your hands and head in VR, but in games like Onward your body can be sticking out from a corner when you think you are in cover. Unless you have full body tracking that's hardly realistic, but VR does do a good job of creating the illusion that you are the character still. Playing a game on a monitor is a bit like reading a book, but you're looking at a screen instead and taken part in the story. 

    You are also not doing any "super stylish action" in VR. You are basically just swinging or moving your arms around while pressing buttons or pulling a trigger. Some of the time it's not even the same movements your character is doing on screen. Try playing Creed Boxing for example where you rabbit punch high above your head, but your character on screen is doing something different with his arms. It's the same with Onward to a degree where your body is doing something different to what you are doing in real life. Only full body tracking would fix this.
  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 453
    Trinity
    That's why I said you're partially in sync ^^. It's still more than in 2D gaming, where you're not in sync at all. 10% sync is still more than 0% sync...

    You're not doing the complex actions in VR for now. But it's not a limit inherent to the concept of VR. In a few years, when we have full body tracking (like you said), we will get to do the awesome stuff. The immersion in VR will keep improving, whereas the immersion in 2D gaming has reached its limit a long time ago.
    They did try to make it more immersive, that's the very reason behind motion gaming. But as much as I loved motion gaming, it was not immersive without VR.

    Also, there's no debating about the visual immersion of VR compared to 2D. Perspective + real-scale + wider FOV + no visual contact with the real environment = 2D can go home.

    But hey, nothing better than experimentation to prove a point ^^. Try and play Skyrim both in pancake and in VR, and see if VR isn't more immersive. Facing a dragon in 2D is nothing like facing it in VR. Facing a dragon in Skyrim was very cool, facing it in Skyrim VR was jaw-dropping.
    Current VR results imo:
    - Great small apps. Great ports of bigger games.
    - Great VR-specific features. Not enough showcased!!!
    - Too many actors in the industry, the market is totally broken.


    My hopes for VR next gen:

    - Better ratio between visual quality and power needs. No more godrays and less SDE.
    - Full Body Tracking.


    "If you don't mind, do you want me to take you there? Where dreams come true."
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,032 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    Does a FreeSync television work with a Nvidia graphics card even though it's Amd tech? Just seen and excellent 4k television that has FreeSync and a 120Hz refresh rate if I choose to use 1440 or 1080p. It's the Samsung 55" NU 8000, which can even run proper HDR and all this for £770..
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    No, FreeSync only works on AMD cards.
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    No, FreeSync only works on AMD cards.
    I believe you can hack it, so long as you have a freesync device in your pc you can get your Nvidia card to do it
     Google for exact details but any lower end and card will do or even onboard I believe. The machine just has to detect the AMD device

    www.pcworld.com/article/3300167/components-graphics/amd-freesync-on-nvidia-geforce-graphics.amp.html
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    Yeah, I heard about that trick but there is no guarantee how long it will work and I wouldn't base a purchasing decision on an unsupported hack.
    AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i
    Gigabyte RX Vega 64 x2 | Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB | Seagate FireCuda SSHD 2TB | Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    Fair point..... It's a shame really gsync is so expensive it's a bit of a joke. Kind of annoying that hardware wise there is nothing what so ever stopping NV cards from running on all the cheap freesync devices.

    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • cyberealitycybereality Posts: 26,156 Oculus Staff
    edited November 2018
    Yeah, it's unfortunate but I can understand why Nvidia does it. Aside from the licensing costs, you lock people into buying Nvidia cards. For example. I have a GSync monitor and due to this I would not even consider AMD for this rig, assuming they released something competitive (I do also have a FreeSync TV on another machine w/ AMD). I think as the DisplayPort Adaptive-Sync standard becomes more prevalent, Nvidia might be willing to support it but we'll see.
    AMD Ryzen 7 1800X | MSI X370 Titanium | G.Skill 16GB DDR4 3200 | EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 | Corsair Hydro H110i
    Gigabyte RX Vega 64 x2 | Samsung 960 Evo M.2 500GB | Seagate FireCuda SSHD 2TB | Phanteks ENTHOO EVOLV
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    As the Holidays approach I am once again moving towards my tradition of Regular gaming. Nov and Dec are the times of year where I dedicate real time to gaming with over 4 hours a day, lack of sleep, etc. lol

    However, I still find it increasingly hard to stay engaged in pancake gaming. Whether it be PC or console. I get easily distracted and struggle to remain engaged for more than 1 hour.

    The struggle is real.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,032 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    @Zenbane - Yeah, it difficult for me to stay engaged in 2D gaming, but single player games like Metro, Red Dead Redemption 2 and The Last Of Use. I think the story can draw me in. It's the multiplayer games that I seem to have lost interest in the most, but that's no surprise when you get some right noobs in multiplayer games. 

    I do like the huffing and puffing in Creed multiplayer though, but unfortunately my shoulder is still in agony when I play and the Dr thinks it could be arthritis now. I'm also waiting for the patch for that game since the devs on Steam acknowledged there needed to be some fixes due to exploits..

    @bigmike20vt - I'll have a look at that hack. Hopefully Nvida hasn't put a stop to it because I'm buying this television in a few days time. Cheers!

    Edit: @bigmike20vt @cybereality - Does an Xbox x or Playstation 4 Pro use Freesync?
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    Bear In mind I don't have freesync TV or Xbox 1 but....
    I believe Xbox 1 S and X support it

    PS4/pro does NOT at this time but I believe it is not impossible it could come one day
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,032 Valuable Player
    edited November 2018
    Bear In mind I don't have freesync TV or Xbox 1 but....
    I believe Xbox 1 S and X support it

    PS4/pro does NOT at this time but I believe it is not impossible it could come one day

    Yeah, I think it's the Xbox x that supports Freesync. When I was looking at a Youtube video about the television I'm sure this guy said the Xbox was supporting it and it looked great. I'm pished off now because it would make more sense me getting a Playstation 4 Pro for the tiltes, but it doesn't support Freesync. I have an Nvidia card and can't get FreeSync because it's Amd. Can these companies not just have a group hug and release stuff for each others tech :)  
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,803 Valuable Player
    That would be the dream. I am sure physx would be way more supported if NV let AMD cards use it. I know why they don't but hardware physx is practically dead now so they may as well free it up. I just hope DLSS and RTX don't go the same way
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    I think that I still have my Ageia PhysX card in my closet somewhere....
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,308 Valuable Player
    Maybe a silly thing to do, but I got a nice offer and bought a Sony 85" TV today (4K HDR). It's not the best panel, but it's primarily for the kids and the wife - it's this one (it's gotten some nice reviews on Amazon and more, 85" has better panel lighting than smaller TVs in the same series):


    I'm thinking about getting a XBox One X, sit down 3 feet (1 meter) from the TV and play some 4K games. If it doesn't work, then there's truly no hope for pancake gaming  :( B)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,585 Valuable Player
    Bloody hell, a telly that size wouldn't fit in my flat lol :o :D :D :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,308 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    Bloody hell, a telly that size wouldn't fit in my flat lol :o :D :D :D

    I have loudspeakers in both corners, unless I get rid of those, this is the biggest TV I can fit in that part of the living room  :D 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,308 Valuable Player
    edited January 26
    I'm feeling quite excited today - the TV is on a truck and arrives later today (the package weight is 141 lbs or 64 kg,  so I prefer to let the pros handle it), and it's snowing outside - my thoughtful wife ordered me to clear the landing strip before the truck arrives  :/  :)

    Hmmm, you can talk to the remote control - gotta feel kinda weird the first times - then again, this video does provide some great ideas/inspiration:


    Now the real reason behind this post - I read that XBox One X is loud when watching 4K Ultra HD movies on disc due to the high rotation speed. Has anyone in here experienced watching such movies on the XBox One X? (I really like a player to be silent when watching movies)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    Well if you're having second thoughts I will send you my address and you can ship it free of charge to my place. :p
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,585 Valuable Player
    Fucking hell, that thing is HUUUUUUUGE lol :o :D :D :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 13,866 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:



    ... and just like THAT, all of your Super Sampling posts suddenly make perfect sense.

    Well played, good sir.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,308 Valuable Player
    edited January 26
    Zenbane said:
    RuneSR2 said:



    ... and just like THAT, all of your Super Sampling posts suddenly make perfect sense.

    Well played, good sir.

    I know I should have waited for 8K  :( Actually this was more for the wife and kids, in VR I've got a 600" screen or better  B) 

    But it kinda looks cool - reminds me slightly of the monolith in 2001, although placed horizontally  ;)





    The screen has a special gaming mode = 30 ms input lag, but my plasma in the gaming room is just 16 ms, so not much improved there... Too tired to test the screen today (and fix the cable clutter), still need to finish a few levels in Transpose using super sampling 2.0 o:)
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,308 Valuable Player
    edited February 3
    My new Black Mirror has bewitched me  :# I've started to watch Netflix and movies again, even to the point where it's reducing my time in VR  :s 

    First of all the 85" has a completely different panel (=VA Direct LED) than 75" or smaller TVs in the Sony XF85 series (=IPS Edge-LED):

    https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/comparison/0b5b69831

    In fact my 85" has the exact same VA panel as found in the more expensive Sony X900F series:

    https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/comparison/059659200

    For these TVs, VA panels have better contrast and better response times than IPS panels (IPS has slightly better viewing angles and may have better colors). So this may explain why I'm quite happy for the black levels on the 85", even though it's not OLED. And colors are amazing.
    The ultimate test was watching Alien one night. I turned off all lamps in the living room and the blacks were awesome - again not quite OLED blacks, but normal (non-enthusiast) persons would probably never be aware of the difference, like my dear wife ;)

    Fun thing, for many years I've been thinking that I've seen the Alien movie - but now I question that. I've not gotten a true 4K/UHD player yet, but I do have the Philips 9700 Fidelio - it has 4K upscaling support even using the integrated Marvell QDeo video chip - which basically is a computer chip greatly enhancing the image quality.






    I used that setup to watch Alien = 4K upscaled QDeo processed image quality (from original blu-ray discs, no streaming). I can't believe that Alien ever looked more impressive in cinemas in 1979. Especially due to the 120 Hz motion flow and further detail enhancements on the Bravia 85". The movie simply looked real - also meaning that it's easy to see the plastic models used in the movie :o  I guess it was like seeing the Hobbit in 48 fps non-3D. Again the added (computer generated) frames made movements appear very life life - so I don't miss 3D that much (which was my greatest worry with this TV, still have a 3D Plasma TV in the man cave, though). It'll probably still give me some headache when having to chose between 3D or 4K HDR when this movie is available on disc:

    I also watched the Bird Box 1080p on Netflix (Netflix wanted me to upgrade to 4K streaming, but my internet connection (provided by my employer) is too slow). I've never - ever - seen such detail in a full HD signal (Sandra Bullock's skin and lips appear like she was a few inches away, you could truly see even the most minor and subtle details). The quality was so amazing I find it hard to believe that a true 4K signal can improve the quality significantly more?

    This review did cause me some worries:


    But gaming should be true 4K, not upscaled 1080p, using the right hardware. So I was again thinking of getting the XBox One X, but most 4K games are just 30 fps  :# Even Ashen, which is the XBox game I'd like to try the most, is just 30 fps, even in 1080p. This is probably because the XBox One X doesn't have much more cpu power than the XBox One S, thereby creating a bottleneck for high-poly games like Ashen. In fact there're quite few interesting 4K 60 fps games:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Xbox_One_X_enhanced_games

    I'd love to try this game in 4K 60 fps though:


    In short - I'm not sure the XBox One X has enough power to really support 4K gaming, possibly the only way to secure 4K gaming is to use PC a with GTX 1080 or better. If I'm truly going to play pancake games in 4K, this game would be a favorite: 


    But I'm truly worried that Rage 2 won't be able to deliver 4K 60 fps on the XBox One X (60 fps is the target on the XBox One X, probably only in 1080p). I'm not going to move my VR rig from the basement to the living room though, I consider 4K HDR 60 fps 2D gaming a gimmick = something fun to try for a short time and for the kids, but no competitor for VR gaming. Note that 4K gaming is possible with a PS4 controller using the 85" TV through the Google Play Store, but limited to simple 2D games (I think the TV has 16GB storage):

    https://www.sony.net/Products/tv/made_for_gaming/en-gb/#p02

    In short, a new big TV is simply awesome for watching TV and movies, and I'm not sure a 4K player is really needed. True 4K (HDR) gaming in 60 fps will probably require a PC, not a console. I'm kinda thinking to leave everything as it is and wait for the PlayStation 5 next year - that could be an awesome 4K allround solution, hopefully (and a way to get VR into the living room B) )...

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,032 Valuable Player
    @RuneSR2 - I heared HDR is difficult to setup on Windows 10 PC. You are probably best waiting for PlayStation 5, so you don't have to mess around trying to get HDR using a PC. The PlayStation 5 is also supposed to do 4K 60FPS from what I've read so far..
  • Digikid1Digikid1 Posts: 1,859 Valuable Player
    Grab a Xbox One X. Best console around and it is the best 4K HDR player as well. For a TV like that anything else will be unworthy. 

    Also get that tv off the floor!!!!  LOL
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