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Techcrunch Are At It Again

snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,180 Power Poster
https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/31/after-canceling-rift-2-overhaul-oculus-plans-a-modest-update-to-flagship-vr-headset/

Now they're saying that they're releasing a Rift S with inside out tracking and a slight resolution bump. Basically a WVR headset. Sounds like a load of old bollocks to me.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,992 Valuable Player
    I was thinking this sounded more like a Vive Pro, being a "minor upgrade in image"[paraphrasing], with the Quest element; again the Techcrunch narrative that it will sidestep the high-end PC community! The TC writer seems adamant to stand by his source on this - I would be less interested in dismissing it so quickly, even if the narrative is uncomfortable.
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  • RolzRolz Posts: 176
    Art3mis
    *sigh* another reason to start looking at alternatives... can see where the "race to the bottom" comment now is coming from...
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,095 Power Poster
    edited October 31
    snowdog said:
    https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/31/after-canceling-rift-2-overhaul-oculus-plans-a-modest-update-to-flagship-vr-headset/

    Now they're saying that they're releasing a Rift S with inside out tracking and a slight resolution bump. Basically a WVR headset. Sounds like a load of old bollocks to me.

    Before I can even begin to think about the details they are reporting on the Rift, I can't help but notice that they are completely contradicting themselves. For starters, they are not sticking by their original source at all, because their original source said that they are "cancelling the Rift." This new source reports a new Rift called the "Rift S." These are blatant contradictions.
    TechCrunch is just fishing for clickthroughs; the web page they report this garbage on is riddled with advertisements on the top and bottom, left and right. There are more money making scripts and hyperlinks on their site than there are actual facts; with a ratio in the ballpark of 100:1.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,180 Power Poster
    kevinw729 said:
    I was thinking this sounded more like a Vive Pro, being a "minor upgrade in image"[paraphrasing], with the Quest element; again the Techcrunch narrative that it will sidestep the high-end PC community! The TC writer seems adamant to stand by his source on this - I would be less interested in dismissing it so quickly, even if the narrative is uncomfortable.

    My problem isn't that the narrative is uncomfortable, it's that the narrative makes absolutely no sense at all. Oculus and Facebook aren't going to spend millions on R&D making several different prototypes and show one of these advanced prototypes at F8 only to release a Mickey Mouse WVR headset with crappy tracking. For starters it would make Echo Arena, one of their flagship software products, virtually unplayable.

    Perhaps if it could ALSO use the Constellation tracking system I might be more inclined to believe it because Oculus and Facebook are fully aware that inside out tracking isn't good enough for high-end PC VR.

    They're having three separate types of headsets for a reason - each of those types are aimed at three different demographics. They need to continue to have a high-end PC VR headset for two reasons 1) Because anything they add such as a larger FOV, eye tracking and dynamic foveated rendering etc is going to be expensive so the enthusiasts are going to buy them and 2) Because that expensive technology will filter down to the Go and Quest lines when the technology is cheaper later on down the line.

    If they release a WVR type headset next year and then a Half Dome headset in 2022 they'll have enthusiasts buying competing headsets before then.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 399
    Trinity
    edited October 31
    I had responded to this in the Odyssey+ thread but to re-iterate my thoughts in here. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it's good that they observe that it's a problem having their "Flagship" headset using outdated 2015 tech compared to their cheaper mobile headsets. But that's something that should have been noticed when everyone said they wished the Go lenses/screens were in the Rift. At this point it's a bit late in the game considering Oculus hasn't given any official statement on this, so we're probably looking at spring at the earliest for a refresh to bring it up to what the Odyssey+ is now... doesn't make much sense.

    I myself would much prefer inside out tracking if they can figure out a way to track some of the area behind you for like echo arena to push off walls in the rear. I find constellation to be a significant barrier to entry for some people because of the USB cabling and people don't really want sensors out all the time and constantly setting them up is a pain. So for me, the sooner we can get rid of it and maintain good tracking the better. I have no issues with this if it's executed well.

    Another negative to me is if this means a cutting edge CV2 is pushed back. I think Oculus will run the risk of falling behind the tech curve as Samsung, Pimax and StarVR (And others Google/Apple/Microsoft) are showing that there are other companies who aren't afraid to push things forward. 

    But then again, as stated that whole article could be a load of BS lol.
  • Protocol7Protocol7 Posts: 265
    Nexus 6
    Zenbane said:For starters, they are not sticking by their original source at all, because their original source said that they are "cancelling the Rift." This new source reports a new Rift called the "Rift S." These are blatant contradictions.
    Not really. The original source said they were canceling the Rift 2 design that Iribe favored. That does not mean there will never be another Rift. The Rift S they describe is clearly very different to a truly next-gen Rift 2.

    If the Tech Crunch source is correct then yes I feel disappointed but it is not hard to understand why Facebook's money men would want a shift away from the high-end enthusiast section of the market at this time.
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 992 Poster of the Week
    Facebook's money men are a bunch of geeks that are Gagging for real VR/AR/cool shit; they said it would take 10 years to get it into the mainstream and we're at year 3... not worried, only bemused :smile:

    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
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  • ShocksOculusShocksOculus Posts: 130
    Art3mis
    edited November 1
    snowdog said:
    https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/31/after-canceling-rift-2-overhaul-oculus-plans-a-modest-update-to-flagship-vr-headset/

    Now they're saying that they're releasing a Rift S with inside out tracking and a slight resolution bump. Basically a WVR headset. Sounds like a load of old bollocks to me.
    • 1600x1400 resolution or higher (Quest is already 1600x1400). This can match or exceed VivePro
    • Next gen lenses that 90% get rid of God Rays and double the sweet spot of the image (already on GO and Quest)
    • Inside Out tracking could help reduce the setup complications (anyone have 3 sensor setup like me? then you know about USB Bandwidth issues). Hopefully Oculus has something figured out for flawless 360, high action tracking (perhaps 6 sensors, a few on the rear of the headset?).
    Sounds like a potential win to me. And remember, even if Oculus DOES NOT release a Rift S, they are still to this day producing the old CV1. IMO, replacing production of the CV1 with this marginal upgrade makes sense as long as the price point of $400 is the same.

    My problem isn't that the narrative is uncomfortable, it's that the narrative makes absolutely no sense at all. Oculus and Facebook aren't going to spend millions on R&D making several different prototypes and show one of these advanced prototypes at F8 only to release a Mickey Mouse WVR headset with crappy tracking. For starters it would make Echo Arena, one of their flagship software products, virtually unplayable.
    They absolutely would if that prototype would cost $1000; basically selling maybe 20,000 units in a year. Remember, RIft didn't overtake Vive on steam until Hugo Barra and Irebe implemented the $400 price point. Price is still an important factor.
    The high end Rift 2 is still coming.  We want Eye Tracking, Foveated Rendering and all the bells and whistles. Give the tech time to mature and cheapen in price (besides Abrash even stated eye tracking is still a few years away).
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 1,581
    Project 2501
    Oh wow, here we go again...

    Don

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,095 Power Poster
    edited November 1
    Protocol7 said:
    Zenbane said:For starters, they are not sticking by their original source at all, because their original source said that they are "cancelling the Rift." This new source reports a new Rift called the "Rift S." These are blatant contradictions.
    Not really. The original source said they were canceling the Rift 2 design that Iribe favored. That does not mean there will never be another Rift.

    That is completely false. The original source claimed that the Rift 2 was being cancelled entirely. What you are referring to is a "re-interpretation" of what that rumor could have meant. The first few days of the original article had people claiming "no more Rift," and Oculus responded publicly by saying, "yes, we are making another Rift." Then people like you, who don't have any facts and are trying to validate the rumor show up and start saying, "ooohh, TechCrunch must have meant that 'Iribe's Rift' is being cancelled."
    It's all guesswork by the uninformed in an effort to substantiate baseless rumors. And the rumors do contradict each other entirely, no matter how desperately people try to re-interpret them in order to feign consistency.
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 1,581
    Project 2501
    Bring it on. I can't wait to replace my current Rift with a new one even if it's marginally better. And...at this rate it would probably arrive before my Pimax HMD.
    I would be excited by that prospect as well, unless they take a leap backwards in the tracking department...
    Don

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,095 Power Poster
    Entertaining the Rift S rumor for a second,
    Who is to say that it wouldn't have the option of connecting to a PC anyway? Many people openly stated that they wanted the Quest to connect to a PC. Perhaps the Rift S would give that option. Afterall, what would truly make the Rift S different from Quest anyway? If we just go by the rumor.
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  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 1,849
    Project 2501
    edited November 1
    pyroth309 said:
    .... I find constellation to be a significant barrier to entry for some people because of the USB cabling and people don't really want sensors out all the time and constantly setting them up is a pain. .
    Constantly setting them up is a pain?

    I set up my sensors in January - one in each corner of the ceiling in my room. They have provided flawless tracking since, without any intervention - and I use my Rift pretty much every day. So I don't know what you are doing, but it sounds a right ballsache.

    Edit: They are also well out of the way - so having them set up all the time is not a problem in any way.




  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,427 Valuable Player
    edited November 1
    i like the idea of a hybrid solution..... would probly mean 2x constellation sensors would be perfect. combine that with VR link support and usb load woes will be over.

    hell i like the "idea" of inside out tracking but it has to be at least as good as a current 3 sensor constellation set up.
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  • dburnedburne Posts: 1,581
    Project 2501
    i like the idea of a hybrid solution..... would probly mean 2x constellation sensors would be perfect. combine that with VR link support and usb load woes will be over.

    hell i like the "idea" of inside out tracking but it has to be at least as good as a current 3 sensor constellation set up.

    Yes the new VR Link support is fantastic !

    Don

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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,427 Valuable Player
    IF that tech crunch article is true, and i still hope it isnt, but if it is, I hope oculus managed to get a deal to use the new odyssey + screens.

    the image quality on that is fantastic. also, i hope they up the FOV a bit. clearly it is not going to be pimax levels of FOV but if it is upped 10 or 20 degrees from the CV1, IF it uses the screen i suggested above and IF they have absolutely perfected inside out tracking,

    of and IF the price is ok.... (that is a lot of IFs!!!!!)

    then i may (probably will) bite.
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 399
    Trinity
    Brixmis said:
    pyroth309 said:
    .... I find constellation to be a significant barrier to entry for some people because of the USB cabling and people don't really want sensors out all the time and constantly setting them up is a pain. .
    Constantly setting them up is a pain?

    I set up my sensors in January - one in each corner of the ceiling in my room. They have provided flawless tracking since, without any intervention - and I use my Rift pretty much every day. So I don't know what you are doing, but it sounds a right ballsache.

    Edit: They are also well out of the way - so having them set up all the time is not a problem in any way.
    I was referring to the people who don't have a dedicated space or don't like having sensors out all the time in their living room or w/e.

    I have a dedicated VR Room so I'm like you and haven't had to touch my Sensors much. 
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 399
    Trinity
    edited November 1
    Zenbane said:
    Entertaining the Rift S rumor for a second,
    Who is to say that it wouldn't have the option of connecting to a PC anyway? Many people openly stated that they wanted the Quest to connect to a PC. Perhaps the Rift S would give that option. Afterall, what would truly make the Rift S different from Quest anyway? If we just go by the rumor.
    I would imagine anything with the Moniker "Rift" would indeed be primarily powered by a PC either wired or wirelessly. I could eventually see the Quest and Rift merging into a single product but that likely wouldn't be for several years.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 4,903 Volunteer Moderator
    Yup and it's very BIG.


    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    And FlyInside Forum Admin.
    Flyinside Flight Simulator is coming !!!!! (In Beta)
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,341 Volunteer Moderator
    OR ... Quest and Rift S are the same product and it will be able to tether to your PC lol

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,992 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    .....
    If they release a WVR type headset next year and then a Half Dome headset in 2022 they'll have enthusiasts buying competing headsets before then.

    No argument to that logic @snowdog - agree 100%
    It would be absolutely stupid and naive to invest in Half-Dome R&D and then shelve that project for say another 24-months, while at the same time start to develop a Rift S - CV1 update path - just like the update-path criticised that HTC did with the Vive Pro. All this in the face of news of the new Samsung headset(s) that fundamentally incorporates all the changes you would want to include. That would show a level of management failure that would seriously hinder the operations future.

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  • WildtWildt Posts: 1,471 Poster of the Week
    OR ... Quest and Rift S are the same product and it will be able to tether to your PC lol

    shocked blunt talk GIF
    The zoom does half the acting.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 2,683 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:
    snowdog said:
    .....
    If they release a WVR type headset next year and then a Half Dome headset in 2022 they'll have enthusiasts buying competing headsets before then.

    No argument to that logic @snowdog - agree 100%
    It would be absolutely stupid and naive to invest in Half-Dome R&D and then shelve that project for say another 24-months, while at the same time start to develop a Rift S - CV1 update path - just like the update-path criticised that HTC did with the Vive Pro. All this in the face of news of the new Samsung headset(s) that fundamentally incorporates all the changes you would want to include. That would show a level of management failure that would seriously hinder the operations future.

    Isn't that what is going on though with Quest and the long wait for CV2? Quest being the WVR type headset.

    To me it sounds like Quest and this Rift S might be the same thing.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 399
    Trinity
    edited November 1
    OR ... Quest and Rift S are the same product and it will be able to tether to your PC lol


    That would be pretty funny to me if it turned out the "Rift-S" is just the name of a connector for the quest for that purpose.

    I mean how hard would it really be to let the quest run android OS games off itself and then have it it switch to "Rift" mode when you hook it to the PC. Then you just run the Oculus software and the games installed on your desktop and let your GPU push the panels to the limit. Doesn't seem like it would be that hard from a tech standpoint.

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 3,992 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    .....
    To me it sounds like Quest and this Rift S might be the same thing.

    Once again, agree with your summation.
    I think the fall-out from the recent departure and the PC high-end community backlash will mean we see a Rift S - that looks more like a "tether-able" Quest headset. If that will placate the PC-VR-community is another matter. With the news of the 6DoF controller Focus, and Samsung hinting at a CES shock with another VR/AR headset - the Spring launch of Quest (let alone a confusing Rift S late entry) will have stiff competition for face time with its perceived core audience?
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
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  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 1,849
    Project 2501
    edited November 1
    Hmmm, now, what could that "S" stand for, I wonder....

    "Sandwich"? It's in between the Rift 1 and Rift 2, so I reckon that's a safe bet! :D


    ...as long as it doesn't mean "Shite"...




  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 4,884 Valuable Player
    edited November 1
    I think there could be some truth to a Rift-S, if Foveated Rendering is a few years away and they want to bring the latest tech they have for Oculus GO/Quest to CV1. All the things that this article mentions would be good improvements while we waited for a Rift capable of Foveated Rendering. The only thing that might be a problem is inside out tracking, but if they used the Oculus Quest's four camera tracking then who's to say it wouldn't be good? Other WVR headsets, like the Samsung Odyssey are only using 2 camera's for inside out tracking currently, so the controllers lose tracking when placed behind you..

    Like others have said this might just be a load of bullshit this article, but if a Rift-S was released then I would buy it while I waited for Rift 2 with Fovated Rendering, which I don't think will arrive until around 2022 imo. And I  think by 2022 we will see a Rift 2 that is both mobile and capable of been hooked up to a PC, but that's just a prediction I'm making..

    Question - Would inside out tracking work with current Rift games that use sensors or would the game need to be patched or something? Would it take a lot of time to patch it if it did need a patch to make the game compatible?
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,577 Valuable Player
    edited November 1
     If important people read this forum and they care to know this at all, they should clarify weather a Rift Version 2 as we were expecting it to be will be released or not.  I don't know why Techcrunch is sticking to this so hard, but it makes me feel uncomfortable.  All that means is my purchasing habbit will change.  On my end, I'll still enjoy the games just the same because there's no performance difference that I can notice on my machine.  But I'll just shift my purchases over to Steam so that if I end up abandoning Oculus, I don't get screwed out of all the games I bought that are locked to an eco system that isn't multi platoform, so if I switch, at least on steam my games will still work if the new HMD isn't an Oculus brand.  That should concern you Oculus, perhaps you should address this directly, because it's not really going to hurt me, it'll hurt you. I'm not using your store now and I'm still obtaining the software from steam.

  • dburnedburne Posts: 1,581
    Project 2501
    Sounds like Oculus may have a leak they need to plug...
    Don

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