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Steam Hardware Survey - Rift vs. Vive and WMR - results from March 2020 included

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,507 Valuable Player
    dburne said:
    snowdog said:
    dburne said:
    snowdog said:

    You don't have a brand as strong as the Rift and stop development of it. Same goes for the Quest too. They'll continue to release both headsets going forward, with the Rift line using new technology which will filter down eventually to the Quest line once it becomes cheap enough to include in the headsets.
    Hand tracking.
    Double tap passthrough.
    Customizable resolution.
    Sharper image in center versus edges to help in performance.
    New Universal Menu.

    I would say it is fast becoming the opposite, with the new Technology focus now going to the Quest, with filtering to Rift  remaining to be seen.


    I was referring to hardware technology, not software. Basically the Half Dome prototype features are highly unlikely to be included in the Quest 2 for the following reasons:

    1) The hardware is too expensive to include eye tracking, foveated rendering and a varifocal feature in the Quest because the Quest has a shitload of mobile phone hardware, heatsink and fans inside it.

    2) The hardware is currently too bulky to include in the Quest 2 because the Quest 2 has a shitload of mobile phone hardware, heatsink and fans inside it.

    3) Even if they upgrade the APU for the Quest 2 it's going to be a waste of time because it won't be able to handle 4K displays at a decent framerate, even with foveated rendering, so one of the headset's main selling points (4K displays) wouldn't apply to using it as a standalone headset.
    There is no Quest 2 yet.
    Nor Half Dome Device either.
    ;) 
    But I will lay odds we will see a Quest 2 long before a Rift CV2.

    We're more likely to see the next iterations of both headsets being released three years after the current ones with the Rift 2 being released a couple of months before the Quest 2, either that or both headsets being released on the same day.

    The Half Dome device is on it's way. You don't spend millions on putting together a prototype and have it as a centerpiece of several conferences and then not bring it to market.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,332 Valuable Player
    edited April 6
    The Half Dome device is on it's way. You don't spend millions on putting together a prototype and have it as a centerpiece of several conferences and then not bring it to market.
    It will be interesting to see - I guess it will depend on the number of units they expect to sell and production cost etc. 
    Maybe having the best hmd is like car producers making fast racing cars that almost no one buys - but it may give them the bragging rights and work to spread the word that one particular company is the best in the world. In some perspective like Nvidia and AMD fighting for the gpu throne. I doubt Nvidia could make a living from selling only 2080 Ti gpus - but you may end up thinking that I'll buy a Nvidia gpu because 2080 Ti is the best in the world, although due to my wallet I'll probably go for the 2060. Thus covering the spectrum from low to high-end may not be a bad idea - and is used by many companies. Right now Oculus isn't covering the high-end, and I would love to see Oculus making a move there. I believe CV1 was a move to make the best VR experience possible, while newer Oculus hmds have made several tradeoffs maybe to reduce costs, maybe to make it easier to use VR. Sure Oculus' goal is to sell a billion hmds, but there may be many methods to achieve that - I do hope one method includes a shiny CV2 or the like. 

    Currently Oculus has a great advantage due to asw 2.0. Using Oculus CV1 45 fps gaming is ok, it doesn't bother me, but using Index I need all those 90 fps and the res being 80% higher than CV1 also is very demanding. You may easily end up needing 100 - 150% extra gpu power to get similar performance when changing from CV1 to Index 90 Hz. This is why Stormland is basically unplayable using Index (if you don't use a 2080 Ti or better)  - and this is the main problem with non-Oculus hmds. Ampere (RTX 3080 (Ti)) may change that - making the Gen2 (2880x1600+) hmds run flawlessly at least in current games and apps. 
    I've seen how Lone Echo looks in the Index res 200% + 4xMSAA and no TAA, it's truly a mind-blowing experience - unfortunately my performance is so low it's unplayable. For now Oculus wins hands down, but everything could change a lot in 6 - 12 months - especially if Oculus does nothing to strengthen their PCVR position. 
    The again, Oculus is expected to deliver PCVR flagships like Lone Echo 2 and Medal of Honor Above & Beyond (and maybe Population One too?), and Valve may be out of new content for years to come. Apart from Alyx I consider Oculus the number one VR content provider above anyone else - and Valve making one flagship does not change that fact. I do hope that increased Oculus hmd sales due to Alyx may strengthen the PCVR adoption - and make a new high-end Oculus hmd possible. 

    Btw, also interesting that the VR hardware changes so fast these days. While a game may still take 3-4 years to make, sometimes making new games like even Alyx seem old-fashioned and dated (clearly made for teleportation = no real jumping, no smooth turning at launch day and many dark places probably were designed for oled hmds - although Valve now has set up many lamps). And there are several arguments why Asgard's Wrath, Stormland and even Saints & Sinners were made for the CV1, even though CV1 was discontinued before any of these games launched, lol. In fact I would not be surprised if Lone Echo 2 still supports temporal antialiasing - which really only makes sense using an oled hmd. 
    Making new hmds shine when using both old and new content isn't easy - many users complain about new lcd hmds being way too bright ruining immersion. Sometimes I think we really don't need new hmds - we need more awesome content - the res I have in Alyx and Boneworks using Index is awesome, I really don't need more, the detail already is astonishing - but I'd like more games and apps I really want to use.

    One of my friends is interested in VR, but has not bought a hmd - he just said that with only one great VR game available he still would not buy a VR hmd (he doesn't listen to what I tell about Lone Echo, Asgard's Wrath and Stormland unfortunately) - only Alyx caught his attention. So ordinary people don't care for hmds - they only care for awesome content? (I'm not different - I only bought CV1 for Lone Echo - I usually go for content before hardware - did buy Index out of pure faith in Valve to deliver awesome content, but luckily I wasn't wrong)  

    - and when the most awesome VR content arrives, all hmds are sold out and there's the corona situation making people less inclined to spend money on anything, lol. Still, really interesting to follow the Steam Hardware Survey the next months, maybe having to stay home will stimulate people to buy VR - even if that requires to spend some money... 
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 5,332 Valuable Player
    edited April 6
    RuneSR2 said:
    kojack said:
    Valve are fixing up the VR hardware survey.

    They are changing it to include every headset you've had connected during the last month, instead of just the one that is plugged in when the survey is taken.
    They are also going to include more headsets, including Pimax and even PSVR (which apparently you can use with Steam with some third party tools).

    The story doesn't say if more people will get the survey.


    Did see that Valve added more hmds a few days ago - and new colors - new numbers caused the amount of hmds connected to rise from 0.97% to 1.01 % - so for now no big changes (Quest is now included, but 0.05% seems too low...?):



    Seems like Valve updated the March numbers a few days ago - wasn't it like 1.17% of all users having a hmd connected? - But now it reads:



    I still don't get the CV1 numbers. The number of new Quest, Index and Rift-S users isn't big enough to support the idea that a lot of CV1 users changed to another hmd. 

    1.29% does look good - maybe... 

    April 2018 = 0.40 %
    July 2018 = 0.70 %
    November 2018 = 0.78 %
    February 2019 = 0.89 %
    September 2019 = 1.04 %
    October 2019 = 1.03 %
    November = 1.02 %
    December 2019 = 0.87 % (weird result...)
    January 2020 = 1.31 %
    February 2020 = 0.97 % (again a strange result)
    March 2020 = 1.29% (still worse than January)

    If we compare April 2018 to March 2020 (2 years), the number of connected hmds has become more than 3 times bigger - that's quite a massive change I guess  :)

    Some more fun:
     
    UploadVR updated their article from April 1 a few days ago to reflect the new survey numbers:

    https://uploadvr.com/steamvr-hardware-survey-mar-2020/
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 4,074 Valuable Player
    That VR headset adoption against 4K Monitor is a rather interesting talking point.  Very close now. As a user of both not sure which I prefer if I had to choose. Probably VR. Fuck it, of course VR!


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,675 Valuable Player
    edited April 6
    That VR headset adoption against 4K Monitor is a rather interesting talking point.  Very close now. As a user of both not sure which I prefer if I had to choose. Probably VR. Fuck it, of course VR!
    Yea I'm a user of both and would also choose VR. But it just comes back to the same bottleneck. GPU's. 2080TI is pretty much the only true 4k gaming card at the moment if you want more than 60 fps. Most gamers will not sacrifice FPS for 4k. I do personally because I like playing on a big screen and anything less than 4k looks bad on it. (I do sometimes drop down to 1440p and upscale when I can't hit at least 50 fps tho).

    Reason casuals don't think there's any good VR games is because Oculus is making new franchises that noone has heard of outside of VR. Valve having the Half Life name recognition is huge. I wish more large companies would take the plunge. Sony has enough franchises to make waves if they go all in on VR. Will be interesting to see what they do for VR with PS5. It seems to be roughly on par with a GTX 1080 which can provide a good experience with current PCVR in most titles.
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