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Steam Hardware Survey - Rift vs. Vive and WMR - results from October 2020 included

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  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,059 Volunteer Moderator
    Also fun that Windows MR and Vive Cosmos combined are less than Quests, considering Quest isn't even natively compatible with Steam. :)

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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,267 Volunteer Moderator
    So if we accept these numbers for the sake of argument, Oculus still controls over 45% of the PCVR headset market, while HTC has dropped off to just under 29%. Going back to 2018 (the start of this thread), Oculus was at about 47% and HTC was around 45%, and WMR made up most of the difference at almost 8%. Oculus and WMR have more or less held their market share, while HTC has lost out to Valve and a small smattering of minor players.

    Interesting that, for all the talk of Oculus losing their place as a player in PCVR, they still hold a commanding 50% lead over the next closest competitor.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,871 Valuable Player
    Its not helping though!
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,267 Volunteer Moderator
    It might be helping... Given the rising number of people using Quest for PCVR, we can assume that some of them got their first taste of VR through Quest, and then forayed into PCVR to see what more was available.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,811 Valuable Player
    edited August 7
    nalex66 said:
    So if we accept these numbers for the sake of argument, Oculus still controls over 45% of the PCVR headset market, while HTC has dropped off to just under 29%. Going back to 2018 (the start of this thread), Oculus was at about 47% and HTC was around 45%, and WMR made up most of the difference at almost 8%. Oculus and WMR have more or less held their market share, while HTC has lost out to Valve and a small smattering of minor players.

    Interesting that, for all the talk of Oculus losing their place as a player in PCVR, they still hold a commanding 50% lead over the next closest competitor.

    Indeed. And if it wasn't for that Google buyout, HTC would likely be out of the race entirely. Now that Microsoft is becoming more established in the Corporate Enterprise, it looks like HTC will be struggling again soon. At least here in the US.

    kojack said:
    kojack said:
    Also fun that Windows MR and Vive Cosmos combined are less than Quests, considering Quest isn't even natively compatible with Steam. :)

    I just want to point out that this wasn't an endorsement of the idea that quest is killing pcvr. :)



    Just typing Quest is apparently killing PCVR :p
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited August 7
    Zenbane said:

    Just typing Q**** is apparently killing PCVR :p

    Correct, there are some things we do not talk about  :|  It's nothing out of the ordinary, more examples here  o:)






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  • jabjab Posts: 314
    Trinity
    edited August 7
    It is sad to see how bad HTC screwed the pooch with Cosmos. Look at the Vive Pro and how relatively high the adoption numbers are even with the price and "for business only" aspect, then imagine what the Cosmos could have been.

    A slight increase to the Vive Pro FoV (already surprisingly close to the Index) and better controllers then the old fashion wands, and HTC would have had a Index competitor. And then if they also kept it compatible with the HTC Wireless kit, they would have had something unique that Index does not have.



  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    jab said:
    It is sad to see how bad HTC screwed the pooch with Cosmos. Look at the Vive Pro and how relatively high the adoption numbers are even with the price and "for business only" aspect, then imagine what the Cosmos could have been.

    A slight increase to the Vive Pro FoV (already surprisingly close to the Index) and better controllers then the old fashion wands, and HTC would have had a Index competitor. And then if they also kept it compatible with the HTC Wireless kit, they would have had something unique that Index does not have.




    Vive Pro seems to be doing better - but it's discontinued and might only be available as long as stocks last. It seems sold out in US, but not yet in the EU. Might be last chance to get a new Vive Pro, which has oled and Index res - not a bad combo with Knuckles, but you don't get Index fov and you do get much more SDE. 

    Elite might be the best hope - it seems that hmd is the best-selling HTC hmd right now, but best-selling is far from great-selling, lol. 
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  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 3,090 Valuable Player
    I think the problem with HTC has been that they only have manufacturing rights for 1.0 base stations/controllers.  All the 2.0 base stations/controllers need to be purchased from Valve.  This is why the new SteamVR Cosmos Elite is coming out with 1.0 base stations/controllers.  This is also the reason they initially tried to use an inside-out system with the OG Cosmos.  Unfortunately they still have a long way to go to meet Rift S tracking standards.  In the meantime, mine is back in its little box, lol!  Vive has come out with a SteamVR faceplate but given it costs aud$399 I doubt I'll ever buy one.  If they ever crack inside-out I'll give it a go again.

    Since even Valve cannot keep up the demand for 2.0 gear with their Index, HTC were in an almost impossible position to do much with the Pro.  Otherwise, I think they could have ramped up its production and got the cost of it down closer to to Index levels.  Again, too bad because the Vive Pro is a very good quality headset (much better than Cosmos imho) and I feel very lucky to have one.  I just wish Valve would finally start shipping Index bits to Australia so I could get ahols of some Index controllers, lol!

    Anyway, just my thoughts on this.

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited September 12
    Another look at everything important to this world and its future  o:)

    AUGUST 2020


    Rift S is growing - and Index is growing nearly as fast too! Quite impressive for the Index being 2.5 times the price of Rift-S. Seems that Valve was right that $1k hmd kits aren't a gigantic failure, lol. In fact Index had slightly more growth than Quest Link. Right now, 1 out of every 6 or 7 SteamVR users is using the Index - that's quite massive. Rift CV1 died a little more in August, but it's still the 4th most used SteamVR hmd according to the survey. 

    WMR was reduced, and HTC lost more than it gained. Pimax seems so small one could discuss if it really exists ;)

    Unfortunately it seems that more Steam users removed hmds than connected them in August - could be due to the summer time, but it's still the wrong direction. 



    The above picture indicates that Rift-S hasn't really moved much the last months, while Quest and Index show signs of continued growth easily seen with the naked eye. 
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    It looks like supplies are getting back to normal, I think from this point the changes will reflect popularity more than they reflect the ability to supply the headsets which has been a big factor from March up until last month imo.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,871 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    ....
    Unfortunately it seems that more Steam users removed hmds than connected them in August - could be due to the summer time, but it's still the wrong direction. 



    The above picture indicates that Rift-S hasn't really moved much the last months, while Quest and Index show signs of continued growth easily seen with the naked eye. 

    A strong observation, and one that was touched on in another forum. The issue was placed into these possible causes:

    - Steam survey glitches
    - Oculus Rift-S users migrating from Facebook after ID news
    - Summer Holidays / General easing of VR usage at this time
    - Move too new headsets

    The last comment is an interesting one, that the VR community has such disposable income that they can move from their CV1, then Rift-S and now to the next high-end VR headset.
    I also wonder if a fifth cause could be added, that of "just no real games out there at the moment". I wonder if this is the HL:A burnout and the wait for the next load of new games, skewing the glitched survey reporting?
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    kevinw729 said:

     I wonder if this is the HL:A burnout and the wait for the next load of new games, skewing the glitched survey reporting?

    I was thinking too that people having now completed Alyx could be one reason for removing hmds. SW Squadrons has just gone gold, and WD Onslaught is coming too within weeks - and maybe AGOS - so big things are coming soon. But of course nothing will (probably) be even remotely close to the quality of Alyx. 

    I bet if Valve was better at supping their Indices, Index would be even more popular - people still complain that the waiting time is - today - at least 2 months.  As seen here you'll still have to wait at least 8 weeks for the Index Kit:

    https://store.steampowered.com/valveindex/

    Checking the Oculus Store I can get the Rift-S in a few days. 
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,871 Valuable Player
    All valid points @RuneSR2 - there are rumors of a big release from Valve for October, though I am not sure if that was linked to their HP Reverb G2 partnership? I would agree that many have completed HL:A and are not all waiting for mod work.

    One of the posters on this forum mentioned there were a lot of Rift-S and Quests on Amazon as second-hand sales, but that could be normal churn at this point waiting for the announcement from OC7/FC7. I wonder how many will off load their older Quest, for several Quest-Lite(s)? 

    Looking at the current state of HTC, not even the news of their HTC Focus with the XR2 chipset will be diminished by the FC7 announcements. A major turning point for Standalone. 
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,811 Valuable Player
    TomCgcmfc said:
    I think the problem with HTC has been that they only have manufacturing rights for 1.0 base stations/controllers.  All the 2.0 base stations/controllers need to be purchased from Valve.  This is why the new SteamVR Cosmos Elite is coming out with 1.0 base stations/controllers. 

    HTC seems to have a few tricks up their sleeves! They still need to work on bringing down their prices. But for VR, they are getting some great new toys out the door.

    I really love this VR Assulat Rifle that is available for order today! I'd totally buy one if I owned a Vive.




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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    TomCgcmfc said:
    I think the problem with HTC has been that they only have manufacturing rights for 1.0 base stations/controllers.  All the 2.0 base stations/controllers need to be purchased from Valve.  This is why the new SteamVR Cosmos Elite is coming out with 1.0 base stations/controllers. 

    HTC seems to have a few tricks up their sleeves! They still need to work on bringing down their prices. But for VR, they are getting some great new toys out the door.

    I really love this VR Assulat Rifle that is available for order today! I'd totally buy one if I owned a Vive.





    It really looks awesome - imagine that in Arizona Sunshine, lol. Prices seem to start at  $1200 though, so probably won't sell like hotcakes... 
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,811 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    It really looks awesome - imagine that in Arizona Sunshine, lol. Prices seem to start at  $1200 though, so probably won't sell like hotcakes... 

    Funny you mention AZ, as it is the first title that this works with right at the start. Here's they current planned direct integration with the gun:



    Interesting that they have Robo Recall coming soon, since this is an Oculus Exclusive. Not that I think it's a bad thing. That's a win for everyone! However, I'm just curious about how this is playing out behind-the-scenes. Are they doing their integration based on Re-vive specifically? If so, it is interesting to market something mainstream based on an informal integration.

    But yes, I agree that $1,200 is rather pricey. But then again... look at how much people pay for that GPUs! lol
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited September 12
    Zenbane said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    It really looks awesome - imagine that in Arizona Sunshine, lol. Prices seem to start at  $1200 though, so probably won't sell like hotcakes... 

    Funny you mention AZ, as it is the first title that this works with right at the start. Here's they current planned direct integration with the gun:



    Interesting that they have Robo Recall coming soon, since this is an Oculus Exclusive. Not that I think it's a bad thing. That's a win for everyone! However, I'm just curious about how this is playing out behind-the-scenes. Are they doing their integration based on Re-vive specifically? If so, it is interesting to market something mainstream based on an informal integration.

    But yes, I agree that $1,200 is rather pricey. But then again... look at how much people pay for that GPUs! lol

    Agreed, Robo Recall seems weird - unless they've got some special deal, but having to depend on Revive does not seem very professional - because I don't think you can count on Revive. Maybe the next Revive version doesn't work with Robo Recall or creates other problems. To my knowledge Revive does not go through extensive QA like new Oculus updates or SteamVR updates. Robo Recall is in the Epic Game Store - but the link sends me directly to the Oculus Store:

    https://www.epicgames.com/roborecall/en-US/home

    Seems like a very bold HTC move to include Robo Recall... Unless Epic soon regains the rights to distribute the game to other stores... 
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited October 4
    September 2020:


    Overall users up from 1.7% to 1.88 - that's 11% increase, but still lower than in May - highest score was 1.93 % (or maybe 1.97) back then. 

    Rift-S did surprisingly fine - up 2%. So did Index - up nearly 1%. Quest went down nearly 1% - could be users selling Quest 1 to get Quest 2. CV1 continued to bleed, so did WMR. 
    Vive Pro moved up - not much though, and similar trend for Elite. 

    Other results:


    Interesting that Vive survives much better than CV1, maybe the possibility to get Knuckles has worked great... Rift-S seems to have regained its old high from the spring, while Index continues to reach new heights - but since you still have to wait at least 2 months for the Index kit, Index scores would probably be (much) higher if Valve could make enough of them. 
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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 1,092
    Wintermute
    The poor old Cv1 is dying as parts become more scarce.....might be time to sell my new in box, unopened Cv1 cable while there are still Cv1 owners out there, but yeah the fact the Vive can use the knuckles and the new base stations is no doubt why it is lasting, that is why i still have mine, although the G2 i think has even put that on notice at this point.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    If the Quest 2 sells as well as I'm expecting it to we could be seeing over 50% of the headsets on Steam being Oculus headsets pretty soon, maybe as soon as next month! :o

    The Oculus headsets are currently at 47.04% (I haven't included the DK1 and DK2 headsets for obvious reasons).

    Pretty impressive.
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,354 Valuable Player
    edited October 4
    I think CV1 is fading because of the additional viable options from Oculus. IE Rift-S and Quest. I'm not sure why so many Vive users didn't make the jump to Index. Perhaps the cost or Valve's manufacturing problems scared them from it.

    A lot of people have jumped from WMR for headsets with better tracking as 2 camera tracking in 2020 is behind the curve. I've seen a ton of posts from all over that left it for Index. Plus the Odyssey+ which is considered the best overall WMR headset until G2 shows up, has been out of production and stock forever now so there's not much drawing people in. Will be interesting to see if G2 boosts it much or not. 
  • Nekto2Nekto2 Posts: 370
    Trinity
    edited October 5

    - Steam survey glitches
    - Oculus Rift-S users migrating from Facebook after ID news
    - Summer Holidays / General easing of VR usage at this time
    - Move too new headsets
    And yet another:
    - HL:A is ended so players will not run Steam and are using Oculus Store
    :D

    ps. consider absolute numbers. Percents could change down, but absolute numbers could grow.
    Same way could change absolute numbers of steam online users (they were at home, but no more). So if now there is less 2D gamers that will lead to vr headsets grows with same absolute numbers of units ;)
    And we do not know survey algorithms if they ask more those who play most of the days then elder vr users (play 1-2 hours a week).
  • Nekto2Nekto2 Posts: 370
    Trinity
    @RuneSR2 said:
    But of course nothing will (probably) be even remotely close to the quality of Alyx.
    Alyx mods only ;)
    Some of them very challenging.

  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 571
    Neo
    I was prompted for the STEAM Sept Survey, but my Rift S wouldn't register for the survey :'(
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited November 5
    October 2020 results have arrived:


    Vive took a dive (rhyme of the day, lol) - Index got the biggest boost, and Quest grew too (might include Quest 2 users). 

    Interesting, but the old king (CV1) actually gained some momentum too. If current trends continue, a 1k hmd kit may be the second most popular hmd in the Steam Hardware Survey next month - that's quite impressive. (Some may only buy the Index hmd, if they have Wands controllers and/or base stations v1.0.) 

    Sadly the interest in VR seemed to decline - thus the percentage of Steam users having a hmd connected declined 0.12%. 

    Looking at developments and trends the last 1.5 years we see:


    The only continued growth seems to be among Index and Quest users, WMR has declined for long, maybe G2 can help... 
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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 1,092
    Wintermute
    edited November 5
    Yeap that is surprising, the most costly HMD even if you only required to buy HMD itself at £450, but it still gained the most this month, even with the all singing all dancing, cheaper £299 Q2 on offer........I wonder what things might have been the deciding factors in people minds for going for the more expensive HMD, any ideas. lol

    But it seems DK2 owners are the only ones content with their present HMD. :)



  • jabjab Posts: 314
    Trinity
    edited November 6
    RuneSR2 said:
    The only continued growth seems to be among Index and Quest users, WMR has declined for long, maybe G2 can help... 
    I am not getting a G2 specifically because it is inside-out WMR. And it is not a budget decision.

    Just bought a used Pimax 5K Plus for shits and giggles and to try a LCD based headset.
    And it turns out giving people the resolution they wanted, and having non parallel displays for increased FOV results in disastrous performance hits. Like 1080ti with <100% res and still barely being playable in some titles bad..
    But the FOV is very, very nice and image is the best I have ever seen using 200% minus the fact it is unplayable.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    jab said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    The only continued growth seems to be among Index and Quest users, WMR has declined for long, maybe G2 can help... 
    I am not getting a G2 specifically because it is inside-out WMR. And it is not a budget decision.

    Just bought a used Pimax 5K Plus for shits and giggles and to try a LCD based headset.
    And it turns out giving people the resolution they wanted, and having non parallel displays for increased FOV results in disastrous performance hits. Like 1080ti with <100% res and still barely being playable in some titles bad..
    But the FOV is very, very nice and image is the best I have ever seen using 200% minus the fact it is unplayable.
    That's a great point - some may easily forget that even CV1 in 2016-2017 easily could need more gpu power than a 1080 or 1080 Ti could provide. And adding like 80% more res (Index, Vive Pro), or even 260% more res (Reverb), does not make anything better performancewise - well, maybe if you got a 3090 for the Reverb, but that's kinda besides the point, lol. 
    That said, many VR games don't need a fast gpu and will work fine using even Reverb - but the very best games like Stormland and Asgard's Wrath, also needing Revive, are a real challenge - even running native with the CV1. 

    Alyx only runs so great thanks to Valve delivering a level of optimization we might never see again in a VR game - or maybe in 2025, who knows, lol. 
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