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Steam Hardware Survey - Rift vs. Vive and WMR - results from October 2020 included

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    No surprise that the Rift Steamshare (my invention of the word to describe the market share on Steam, and I own the IP as far as I know so my lawyers will be watching  :D ) has gone down. And we won't see that increasing that much until June I think.

    If Valve hadn't decided to take the piss with their pricing then they could have done some serious sales with the Index. A couple of hundred pounds or dollars less and they could have shifted some serious units. And they probably would have completely killed off the Rift S if they had made the whole bundle available for $600/£600.

    Now that they've decided to 'do an HTC' they'll struggle to sell that many I think.

    We'll see the Rift S selling a shitload going forward I think, particularly now that they have a headset that's more laptop friendly.
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  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    The number of active Rift users on Steam clearly dropped because all those Rift users were too busy f5ing news pages and arguing about headsets on forums to actually use their Rifts.
    :tongue:

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  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 571
    Neo
    Rift S will probably be seen as a "new/separate" headset, so the numbers are all moot now (unless we add up all Oculus headsets)
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,811 Valuable Player
    edited May 2019

    I disagree, enthusiasts who want high frame rates with improved clarity for intense programs for any given GPU will appreciate the S. Enthusiasts who want the best resolution and more FOV will appreciate the Index.

    Enthusiasts who want potentially more accurate controller tracking because of the proximity of the controllers to the cameras... or who want to be enthusiastic in their study for sit-down VR (where they have to use their PC for work) and in a larger room for free-movement VR... and frequently move between the two, will appreciate the S. yep I'm describing myself here!

    There are different kinds of enthusiast I think.


    Completely agree. If you look at the numbers, the Vive Pro is supposed to be the best for enthusiasts, and it's barely a blip on the radar. Not to mention that Pimax is still completely MIA.

    I think the overall decline is the result of a lack of new and compelling titles. The market can only fall in love with Beat Saber so many damn times lol
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    Steam will have to change the way it recognising the S. According to VR Oasis it's currently being recognised as a Rift with 3 sensors. They may just continue to group them together I guess.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,811 Valuable Player
    Yeah, Rift-S is being recognized as the Rift on Steam. Unless Valve changes their software, it will likely remain that way.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    That's okay, saves us doing any maths lol :D
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:

    I disagree, enthusiasts who want high frame rates with improved clarity for intense programs for any given GPU will appreciate the S. Enthusiasts who want the best resolution and more FOV will appreciate the Index.

    Enthusiasts who want potentially more accurate controller tracking because of the proximity of the controllers to the cameras... or who want to be enthusiastic in their study for sit-down VR (where they have to use their PC for work) and in a larger room for free-movement VR... and frequently move between the two, will appreciate the S. yep I'm describing myself here!

    There are different kinds of enthusiast I think.


    Completely agree. If you look at the numbers, the Vive Pro is supposed to be the best for enthusiasts, and it's barely a blip on the radar. Not to mention that Pimax is still completely MIA.

    I think the overall decline is the result of a lack of new and compelling titles. The market can only fall in love with Beat Saber so many damn times lol

    I fully agree, although some of us may like the Index, we already have several awesome high-end HMDs to choose from. 

    I'm not sure we really need more HMDs right now. But imagine how Valve could boost VR much more by releasing just one exclusive game for all PCVR users: Half-life 3  ;)
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited June 2019
    Maybe thanks to Rift-S, although Rift-S was released late in May, May 2019 provided the strongest VR results so far:




    If we compare April 2018 to May 2019 we see:

    April 2018:
    Oculus Rift 0.20%
    HTC Vive 0.18%
    Windows Mixed Reality 0.01%
    Oculus Rift DK2 0.01%
    Oculus Rift DK1 0.00%
    Unknown 0.00%
    Total = 0.40%

    May 2019:
    Oculus Rift 0.46%
    HTC Vive 0.41%
    Windows Mixed Reality 0.10%
    HTC Vive Pro 0.01%
    Oculus Rift DK2 0.01%
    Oculus Rift DK1 0.00%
    Huawei VR2 0.00%
    Total = 0.99%

    This is kind of a magic moment - being this close to 1% of all Steam users having connected a HMD. 

    If the number of Steam users didn't increase the last year, then 2.5 more users now have a HMD connected. That's quite massive. If the number of Steam users grew the last year, which I'd expect it did, then the number is even bigger than 2.5. 
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator

    That's a good gain for a month. Whatever the reasons, consumer VR seems to be increasingly in the public eye of late.

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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited July 2019
    Results for June 2019:




    We've finally reached the 1 % milestone - exactly 1 % of all Steam users now have a HMD connected. Maybe that's worth celebrating, but then again, maybe not - because the above results do indicate some problems.

    The main problem is that Steam PCVR only grew 1% the last month. June was the month where we should see a giant impact of all the Rift-S sales. But we don't. Not at all - actually Rift was 2% reduced in June - in spite of many Rift-S HMDs probably being identified as CV1s. 
    This could indicate that CV1 was just changed to Rift-S while many kept the CV1 and did not sell it. Or many got rid of PCVR and got Quest? 
    There's now an Unknown category, maybe there're some Index HMDs in there - and maybe some Rift-S HMDs, we don't know. 

    In short PCVR grew only 1% in spite of all the Rift-S sales in June - personally I don't think that's good. Let's hope things look much better next month, but I doubt there'll be a giant impact of the Index... 

    I'm starting to think we need something like Half-Life 3 VR to really boost PCVR. More truly awesome content, not more HMDs. 
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    Well that doesn't make a great deal of sense unless NONE of the new Rift S owners were asked to fill in the survey. Very odd.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,871 Valuable Player
    In the article about the numbers - they threw open the debate the accuracy of the information once again, confirming Valve would not comment on the issue of if Rift-S was included and if the drop was due to the CV1 being removed from sales. Also the issue of which HTC sales numbers amounted to which (Focus, Focus_, Vive, Vive Pro, Vive Pro Eye), and the big bone of contention - using these numbers as a gauge sales, when a large percentage of HTC hardware sold is used in Enterprise that does not use Stream! 
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Results just came in - still not looking really good:

    Results from July 2019



    Until disproven I think "Unknown" is the Index, it's the only thing that makes sense - it's grown from 0.01% last month to 0.09% this month. That's quite remarkable, if Index in just one month has achieve nearly 25% of the Rift numbers - considering it took the Rift many years to achieve the current numbers. I would also indicate that Index may have sold just as many HMDs as Windows WMR have sold since its start... (Of course we don't know if "Unknown" = "Rift-S + Index"). 
    But look at the Rift and Vive - they're down just as much as Index has grown. So nothing has changed regarding VR adoption, but some Rift and Vive users bought the Index and disconnected their old HMDs? 

    Last month 1.00% of Steam users had a PCVR hmd connected, now it's down to 0.98 % - it's not a trend I like. We really need some content to draw in the masses - or maybe Quest is to blame? ;-) 
    If Rift-S is included in the Rift results above, then we certainly can't see any evidence of strong Rift-S sales - actually it looks like Rift-S is selling quite badly, again only if Rift-S is included in the above "Rift" results (Rift-S is correctly identified in SteamVR, and Oculus also just has one "Rift" category in the store - makes sense to add them together in Steam too). 

    The Steam illustration showing market shares hasn't been updated yet, it still contains the old results from June, therefore I haven't included those results in this post. 
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    I think Unknown also includes the Rift S. There's no way that Oculus haven't sold a shitload of the things and would explain why the Unknown sales are so high.
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    snowdog said:
    I think Unknown also includes the Rift S. There's no way that Oculus haven't sold a shitload of the things and would explain why the Unknown sales are so high.
    Maybe, just strange that results from June available in the start of July showed Unknown at only 0.01% - at that time Rift-S had been available for purchase for more than a month, while first wave of Indices arrived like 3 to 5 days earlier.
    Well, Valve has identified the Huawei hmd, I guess Index will be identified next month, unless some weird cover-up is going on, lol.
    Relative to the Vive Pro I guess it would make sense to see similar numbers for the Index due to the price.
    I would expect Index to have a strong presence in the Steam chart though, because these hmds don't have other homes.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    Does anyone have an Index connected to Steam? Does it recognise it as an Index?
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    Does anyone have an Index connected to Steam? Does it recognise it as an Index?
    Yes, it's fully recognized - including base stations 2.0, controllers etc. So is the Rift-S btw. 
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    RuneSR2 said:
    Does anyone have an Index connected to Steam? Does it recognise it as an Index?
    Yes, it's fully recognized - including base stations 2.0, controllers etc. So is the Rift-S btw. 


    mmm just noticed SteamVR doesn't display headset name... I thought it did.

    Assuming the Index is the same as Rift-S and has unique graphics to display the status of the headset and controllers, why they haven't gone the extra inch to ID the headset in the survey.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    Because they want everyone to think that more people have bought the Valve Index than they actually have.

    You'll probably find that 0.3% of those sales are Rift S headsets and 0.1% of those sales are Valve Index headsets I reckon. Or maybe 0.25% and 0.15% might be more accurate.

    Valve are going to have the same problem that HTC have had with the Vive Pro because it's just too expensive for what it is. If it was $799/£719 they'd be selling a lot more of the things over a longer period, but with its current price you'll see sales dropping like a lead balloon once the launch window is over.
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator

    Yeah there could be some holding back of info until the figures look good... or maybe just different departments doing different things... to different levels of competence.

    I'm just remembering my old office.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    But then you also have to consider that Valve are the only ones that sell the things too. You can't get one from anywhere else apart from Steam, whereas you can get the Vive Pro from a few places.

    They're probably selling well to begin with compared to the Vive Pro because the price isn't quite as daft, but this demand won't keep up. Even if sales get a small boost when they release in Canada and Australia they'll still have the same problem. Sales will drop off a cliff in those territories once the launch window is over.

    Oculus on the other hand are selling their headsets hand over fist. The majority of those Unknown headsets will be Rift S headsets.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 16,811 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:

    Valve are going to have the same problem that HTC have had with the Vive Pro because it's just too expensive for what it is. If it was $799/£719 they'd be selling a lot more of the things over a longer period, but with its current price you'll see sales dropping like a lead balloon once the launch window is over.
    That’s not true by a country mile.

    Index can still only be reserved in the UK so you can’t get one on demand.

    I live near many country miles, and I do not think you are measuring them correctly! :p

    As snowdog pointed out, you can only get them from Valve direct, which would account for any perceived "backlog" and ongoing "reservations." Lets not forget the plethora of Index returns that were reported across facebook and reddit, as a result of the terrible Knuckles functionality. One can easily assume that Valve has either slowed or halted shipment until they fix their epic blunder.

    It is false, by a country mile, to presume that Valve's current "index reservation" scenario is the result of high sales.
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  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 1,051
    Neo
    edited August 2019
    its goofy of me to want one but i want one;


    i wonder how much canadian it will be. as a former salesman i can see the problem of going door to door asking people to shell out 1500 canadian for the index.plus tax another 300 and shipping another 100 close to 2000, from households where money is tight. most of canada is thrifty fyi.not an enviable sell for the salesman.

    now if they gave away 10 full games, and made sure it ran on their pc and you could put 3 payments on it or 6 over half a year then thrifty bargain minded canadians might buy one more likely;

    then its party time.




  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,267 Volunteer Moderator
    edited August 2019
    So the charts have been updated to include Rift S and Index. It seems that the "unknown" percentage was mostly Rift S, as it's already at 8.4%, compared to 1.46% for Index. I don't find this at all surprising, since Index has had a slow rollout with probably much more limited manufacturing. It will be interesting to see how this progresses as Valve fills its backorders, but I don't expect Index to take the VR world by storm at its current price.

    It's also worth noting that the Rift CV1 has dropped almost 4% from June to July, so it seems that about half of the Rift S sales may have been upgrades from CV1. Vive has also dropped almost 4%, which could indicate that the majority of Rift S and Index buyers are people who already had either a Rift CV1 or a Vive. Of course, without looking at the overall numbers, I'm speculating a bit here--I don't know how much of the change is accounted for by growth in the total number of headsets versus changing ownership within the established VR user base.
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    There you go, the Snowdog is right 99% of the time. B)

    And those Index sales will drop off a cliff in a few months and get a small boost when the Christmas shopping season starts but the Rift S sales should remain mostly steady (with a slight decline) and get the same sort of boost at Christmas too.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,871 Valuable Player
    The ambiguity that this "Survey" feeds the VR community is baffling. Along with the whole issue of who actually can fill in the survey, the accuracy of collected data, manipulation, and the obvious large number of non Steam connected units (Enterprise, PSVR, etc.,) - I think its time for a independent survey of users, supported by the dev-trade. This would help Indies ponder which platforms offer them the best opportunity to support, and also would create a strong understanding of the VR landscape.
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited August 2019
    I do think Rift-S will grow much more, it's inexpensive and easy to set up. Index launched June 28, so many Index HMDs may not have had much time to register if Valve measured HMDs during all of July, and the availability is limited. But Snowdog wins this time, sigh ;) Right now the results indicate that for each Index sold, 6 Rift-S HMDs were sold - might not be a completely unreliable trend due to the massive difference in price and availability. 
    Index is not far from Vive Pro which became available April 2018. Interesting to see how things look when Index becomes widely available. I'd suspect Vive owners to adopt Index more than Rift owners, also because Vive owners may not need to buy new base stations. 
    All in all still doesn't look good going from 1.00% HMDs to 0.98% during the last month - would so much have liked to see increased adoption of PCVR, not what looks to be a small decline (indicating old users changing to a new HMD, and some maybe abandoning PCVR and going for the Quest). 
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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    The Snowdog wins 99% of the time. B)

    It'll probably end up selling around the same rate as the Vive Pro but if they made an effort to sell the things in retail they could comfortably outsell the Vive Pro I think. But that would mean effort, something that Valve stopped making around the same time they stopped be able to count to three. Wankers.
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    The Snowdog wins 99% of the time. B)

    It'll probably end up selling around the same rate as the Vive Pro but if they made an effort to sell the things in retail they could comfortably outsell the Vive Pro I think. But that would mean effort, something that Valve stopped making around the same time they stopped be able to count to three. Wankers.

    I do believe the Index will greatly outsell Vive Pro - because Index has controllers that work quite a lot like Touch and do offer a new dimension for hand representation, unlike those dreaded wands. The wands were my main issue with HTC, their oled HMDs did look fine to me and the tracking too. Wands and lack of awesome software content may be the biggest problems for HTC, interesting if Valve can do something to increase awesome VR content - for all PCVR users, like Valve has promised... 
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