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Steam Hardware Survey - Rift vs. Vive and WMR - results from October 2020 included

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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,871 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    ......
    Also Oclulus still sells brandnew CV1 sensors and Touch, these also come with 2 years of warranty. I doubt that Oculus has any plans of not supporting the CV1 the next years.

    Thanks for the observation. Fundamentally support comes down to two things "ability" and "intention". 

    As we saw with the bricking of the CV1's when the person responsible for the MS license left the company and no one took up the role, there is a danger that the company may be intending to support up to the-end-of-2021, but if they do not have the experienced team remaining this ability may be a mute point.
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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,267 Volunteer Moderator
    RuneSR2 said:
    Quest Link is added to Rift-S, so the Rift-S popularity may be inflated in these numbers.

    For market shares we see:

    Rift-S + Quest is getting close to CV1, but CV1 is still king ;) Index is close to all WMR HMDs. Vive non-pro still is no. 2 in the race... 

    Based on a rough estimation for Quest, I'd say about 2/3 of the hmds are oled and 1/3 are lcd. 
    According to Steam Support, the Quest over Link is not tracked by the hardware survey, so those Rift S numbers are just for actual Rifts. 
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    nalex66 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Quest Link is added to Rift-S, so the Rift-S popularity may be inflated in these numbers.

    For market shares we see:

    Rift-S + Quest is getting close to CV1, but CV1 is still king ;) Index is close to all WMR HMDs. Vive non-pro still is no. 2 in the race... 

    Based on a rough estimation for Quest, I'd say about 2/3 of the hmds are oled and 1/3 are lcd. 
    According to Steam Support, the Quest over Link is not tracked by the hardware survey, so those Rift S numbers are just for actual Rifts. 
    Did see that on Reddit, when Quest Link is registered correctly it will indeed be interesting to see the impact. 
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited February 2
    kevinw729 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    ......
    Also Oclulus still sells brandnew CV1 sensors and Touch, these also come with 2 years of warranty. I doubt that Oculus has any plans of not supporting the CV1 the next years.

    Thanks for the observation. Fundamentally support comes down to two things "ability" and "intention". 

    As we saw with the bricking of the CV1's when the person responsible for the MS license left the company and no one took up the role, there is a danger that the company may be intending to support up to the-end-of-2021, but if they do not have the experienced team remaining this ability may be a mute point.
    Guess we'll have to wait and see. If Zuckerberg wants as many as possible to adopt VR including Horizon, it might not be the very best idea to cut support for maybe more than 1 mill hmds which will work just fine with Horizon. I guess CV1 sold about 1.5 to 2 mill, but it's guesswork how many will be active in a year or two. Maybe we've all switched to PS5VR then, lol ;)
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    nalex66 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Quest Link is added to Rift-S, so the Rift-S popularity may be inflated in these numbers.

    For market shares we see:

    Rift-S + Quest is getting close to CV1, but CV1 is still king ;) Index is close to all WMR HMDs. Vive non-pro still is no. 2 in the race... 

    Based on a rough estimation for Quest, I'd say about 2/3 of the hmds are oled and 1/3 are lcd. 
    According to Steam Support, the Quest over Link is not tracked by the hardware survey, so those Rift S numbers are just for actual Rifts. 
    That's surprising and makes the jump in Rift sales pretty significant. Just out of curiosity (as I'm not using Link yet), does the Quest list as a Quest in device manager when Linked up.. or as a Rift?
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  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 5,006 Valuable Player
    If the Quest ever comes up as a Rift i don't think it will have much impact.  I know those on here who own a Quest probably use it with the Link cable but everybody i know off this forum who has bought one has done so because they are not big PC gamers (they don't own a gaming rig).
  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 1,092
    Wintermute
    edited February 3
    kevinw729 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    ......
    Also Oclulus still sells brandnew CV1 sensors and Touch, these also come with 2 years of warranty. I doubt that Oculus has any plans of not supporting the CV1 the next years.

    Thanks for the observation. Fundamentally support comes down to two things "ability" and "intention". 

    As we saw with the bricking of the CV1's when the person responsible for the MS license left the company and no one took up the role, there is a danger that the company may be intending to support up to the-end-of-2021, but if they do not have the experienced team remaining this ability may be a mute point.

    It's amazing to think that Steamvr may be supporting the CV1 way longer than the company who actually made it. lol
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    edited February 3
    I think as it becomes more of a known thing... and as it improves through the beta stages, increasing numbers of people will buy Quests for both mobile and PC VR, but yeah, right now, the numbers of people using Quests with Link may not be big. Mobile untethered VR is going to remain the main reason to buy a Quest for a while yet.

    I think what the Steam hardware survey will eventually show, is whether people who have a capable PC, buy a Quest instead of Rift for PC VR gaming.
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  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 5,006 Valuable Player
    I think as it becomes more of a known think... and as it improves through the beta stages, increasing numbers of people will buy Quests for both mobile and PC VR, but yeah, right now, the numbers of people using Quests with Link may not be big. Mobile untethered VR is going to remain the main reason to buy a Quest for a while yet.

    I think what the Steam hardware survey will eventually show, is whether people who have a capable PC, buy a Quest instead of Rift for PC VR gaming.

    Good points!  
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 6,267 Volunteer Moderator
    nalex66 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Quest Link is added to Rift-S, so the Rift-S popularity may be inflated in these numbers.

    For market shares we see:

    Rift-S + Quest is getting close to CV1, but CV1 is still king ;) Index is close to all WMR HMDs. Vive non-pro still is no. 2 in the race... 

    Based on a rough estimation for Quest, I'd say about 2/3 of the hmds are oled and 1/3 are lcd. 
    According to Steam Support, the Quest over Link is not tracked by the hardware survey, so those Rift S numbers are just for actual Rifts. 
    That's surprising and makes the jump in Rift sales pretty significant. Just out of curiosity (as I'm not using Link yet), does the Quest list as a Quest in device manager when Linked up.. or as a Rift?
    Device Manager sees it as a Quest, but I think the old version of SteamVR listed it as a Rift S. Since the latest revamp of SteamVR, it doesn’t mention the headset by name anywhere, but the fact that it knows the  refresh rate is 72 Hz implies that it can differentiate between a Quest and a Rift S.

    Perhaps the hardware survey specifically looks for video card connections to detect VR headsets, or maybe they don’t want to assume Link use when a Quest is connected, because you could just be plugged in for file transfer.
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  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,353 Valuable Player
    edited February 3
    kevinw729 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    ......
    Also Oclulus still sells brandnew CV1 sensors and Touch, these also come with 2 years of warranty. I doubt that Oculus has any plans of not supporting the CV1 the next years.

    Thanks for the observation. Fundamentally support comes down to two things "ability" and "intention". 

    As we saw with the bricking of the CV1's when the person responsible for the MS license left the company and no one took up the role, there is a danger that the company may be intending to support up to the-end-of-2021, but if they do not have the experienced team remaining this ability may be a mute point.

    didnt oculus state that once the oculus runtime went "1.0" future compatibility would be continual?.

    it doesnt seem that outrageous, direct x compatibility goes back a fair distance........  (windows compatibility is a slightly more contentious thing).... if direct X 9 was a person, (s)he could go to the pub and drink beer now it is that old, and yet that is still supported on current windows. some of the games I still play are DX9, and hell ETS2, a game still in active development only dropped DX9 a matter of months ago.

    not sure why the oculus run time will be any different with the CV1.
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  • LuluViBritanniaLuluViBritannia Posts: 556
    Neo
    I wasn't worried at all about last month results. This sort of peak is perfectly normal for statistics. It's not about the monthly results, it's about the trend!
    Hyped for the Quest 2!


    My hopes for VR next gen:
    - Full Body Tracking. Come on, Oculus!
    - Eye tracking with foveated rendering. Must reduce the power needs!
    - More big-scale games. I need a true VRMMORPG!
    - Bigger community.

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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    Well I've done my part! There'll be an extra Rift S on the next set of Survey Results :D

    I wonder if it keeps track of people taking part in them? Will it take my Rift CV1 off and put my Rift S in its place? Last time I took part (which was years ago) it added my Rift.
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  • ElusiveMarlinElusiveMarlin Posts: 301
    Trinity
    I've not had one of these surveys for over a year now. can you request one, or is it randomised in some way?
    Reason being, I too added the CV1 originally, but now I have a Rift S that I would like to add to the pot!
    RIFT CV1
    RIFT S
    Leeds, UK.

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  • kojackkojack Posts: 7,058 Volunteer Moderator
    I've not had one of these surveys for over a year now. can you request one, or is it randomised in some way?
    Reason being, I too added the CV1 originally, but now I have a Rift S that I would like to add to the pot!

    Go into a command line in the steam directory and enter:
    steam steam://takesurvey/4
    The 4 is the VR survey.
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  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 571
    Neo
    edited February 6
    From this STEAM Support ticket, it looks like Quest+Link isn't included in the STEAM Survey (yet). [that's how I interpret it]



    If that's the case, then Rift S had a HUGE gain; that really puts further doubt on the latest SuperData Q4 sales estimates.


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  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 8,054 Valuable Player
    My friends Spark and Lauren have just left, they were blown away by VR :D

    And they've both got a decent resistance to sim sickness too, put them both in Drop Dead and they didn't have any problems with the on-rails motion. Next time they come around I'm gonna put them in some scary stuff  >:)
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  • Ray_SoverRay_Sover Posts: 44
    Brain Burst
    snowdog said:
    My friends Spark and Lauren have just left, they were blown away by VR :D
    Glad to hear it went well. A young work colleague of mine bought a Rift S a few days ago on my recommendation and hasn't stopped grinning like a loon since.  :D
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  • ElusiveMarlinElusiveMarlin Posts: 301
    Trinity
    kojack said:
    I've not had one of these surveys for over a year now. can you request one, or is it randomised in some way?
    Reason being, I too added the CV1 originally, but now I have a Rift S that I would like to add to the pot!

    Go into a command line in the steam directory and enter:
    steam steam://takesurvey/4
    The 4 is the VR survey.
    Cheers for that @kojack. Appreciated.
    RIFT CV1
    RIFT S
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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 1,092
    Wintermute
    ShocksVR said:
    From this STEAM Support ticket, it looks like Quest+Link isn't included in the STEAM Survey (yet). [that's how I interpret it]



    If that's the case, then Rift S had a HUGE gain; that really puts further doubt on the latest SuperData Q4 sales estimates.



    Well that is quite impressive for the S, which i thought was seen as the red headed stepchild of the Oculus VR family, so i wonder why it is having such a resurgence, could this be CV1 owners moving to the S after their CV1 bit the dust or just upgrading in general........interesting figures.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    From the graph, Rift-S percentages rose more than CV1 figures dropped so it's definitely not just CV1 upgrading going on. Personally I think I large proportion of the negativity towards the S were from enthusiasts resenting the apparent departure towards mainstream that the S is.

    Not having manual IPD is a bar for anyone who's eyes don't fall within the range catered for and the audio is poor if you're not doing what I'm doing and using surround speakers (or headphones). But things like tracking (for me at least) is as good or better than CV1 was, and resolution and godrays are way better, confort is on another level too and there's the convenience of inside-out tracking.

    I think £400 is the right target price for a headset to encourage VR take-up and I'd like Facebook to stick to producing the best headset they can for that price in the future. Hopefully the next Rift will have manual IPD adjustment, decent headphones, another bump in res and eye-tracked foveated rendering for the same price.

    I also think that even though we now have Link, people should still weigh up the pros and cons of Rift rather than Quest, if PCVR is the reason they want a headset (or another PCVR dedicated headset from another manufacturer if they can afford it).
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 5,871 Valuable Player
    A number of VR news sites are investigating a story doing the rounds about the accuracy of the Steam information, and that in fact it has some serious discrepancies and possible under and over reporting. As you would imagine getting the team at Valve to comment on this "unofficial" reporting is near to impossible, but following a number of recent departures a picture is being built up from anecdotal sources. I think the results will surprise many.
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited March 19
    Completely forgot to add results from February 2020 to this thread, thanks to @kevinw729 for reminding me ;)

    Actually things look remarkably bad for Feb 2020:



    - to put everything into perspective:

    September 2019 = 1.04%
    October 2019 = 1.03%
    November = 1.02%
    December 2019 = 0.87%
    January 2020 = 1.31%
    February 2020 = 0.97 %

    It's kinda worse than going 6 months back, it does not make sense to me. Now, a few weeks ago I did read somewhere that some users with Rift connected experienced that Steam didn't register the CV1 in the survey. That could explain the massive CV1 reduction, but still some CV1s did get counted. Not sure corona can be blamed for the massive reduction from 1.31% to 0.97% (about 35% reduction). I guess we should take the current results with a grain of salt...

    Kevinw729 already posted these trends, which again might be flawed:



    With Alyx so close and hmds being sold out everywhere, the last thing I'd expect in Feb 2020 would be a reduction in connected hmds. Let's see how it goes next month... 
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  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 1,092
    Wintermute
    edited March 19
    ^^^Might be publicly used business hmds that are now being burned in a huge fire pit as no one will now use them. Lol
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    edited March 19
    I posted in another thread that I didn't think Steam surveys would be very meaningful for the next few months. Even without the problems of supplying new VR headsets, people are busy with a variety of things I think.

    From my own point of view I seem to need to feel more involved with the reel world now rather than escape to the virtual, which is the oposite of how I thought I'd feel. Taking in a lot of news on the TV and websites, listening to decent music on the radio.

    Some people having to make a lot of arrangements for kids being at home with schools closing... or just searching for places with toilet rolls :| 

    People working at home may just want to get out of the house for some fresh air when the works done or sit down with the kids. When this has been going on a bit longer, boredom will probably set in and gaming will feel like more of a draw.
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  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    People working at home may just want to get out of the house for some fresh air 
    As long as you don't meet and infect other people, lol ;) Actually a problem may be that infected persons have no symptoms and may still be able to spread the virus (some child in a newly publish paper had no symptoms for 3 weeks, but the virus was detected in stools). Guess no one should leave the house for a few weeks  B)  

    Personally I think VR is awesome. We've been at home since last Thursday when schools closed (until March 30, for now), I've been out like 3 times for shopping. It's no big deal (we have a big house and a garden), and after "doing time" in Boneworks, taking a walk in Stormland to enjoy some alien daffodils or whatever is growing, sitting in SteamVR Alyx Home watching everything - or doing a spacewalk in Mission: ISS I feel close to completely refreshed  :)  

    (Looks awesome CV1 ss 2.0)

    "I don't need the real world - I've got a HMD and prefer VR"  B) (ok, let's see how it goes in a few weeks...)

    I believe that being at home due to the corona situation should increase hmd use, not reduce it. The SteamVR results are weird...
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  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 6,366 Volunteer Moderator
    I’d go with the advice of stay at home if self isolating, for those who aren’t, social distancing is the thing which doesn’t exclude going outside... 1.5m separation, no cafes or bars etc

    Even sitting in the garden is good enough for me after a few hours in the house
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 2,352 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    Yea seems a bit odd but there is a lot going on rn. Plus I'm sure there's a lot of people like me who always seem to get the survey when I don't have a HMD plugged in lol. Think the last one I had a headset plugged in for was like June.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 5,006 Valuable Player
    OmegaM4N said:
    ^^^Might be publicly used business hmds that are now being burned in a huge fire pit as no one will now use them. Lol

    Was at the ConExpo 2020 (Construction Expo) in Vegas just last week - everybody using a HMD was using either a CV1 or Rift S (apart from one who had an OG Vive).  Nobody mentioned worrying about the virus at that time to be honest, although they were mainly "proper blokes" who drove diggers and cranes for a living    :smile:
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 7,114 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    I’d go with the advice of stay at home if self isolating, for those who aren’t, social distancing is the thing which doesn’t exclude going outside... 1.5m separation, no cafes or bars etc

    Even sitting in the garden is good enough for me after a few hours in the house

    Just got this - from a Danish Hospital - don't think young people with no comorbidities are in trouble - but we risk infecting old people with comorbidities:



    So stay home - and plug in the HMD  o:)

    Pretty sure I don't want to be anywhere but City17 next week lol

    Even the Terminator stays home  ;)


    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
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