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Actual visual experience vs. the Oculus Store demo

Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
NerveGear
edited November 30 in Oculus Go
Disclosure - I am new to VR and wear tri-focal glasses. Is anyone getting anything close to the clarity and resolution depicted in the store's demo of the apps?  Some apps are better than others but I have not found any yet that any better than, say an old projection tv's resolution.  I have been using my Go for about a week everyday and found some of the experiences fascinating and don't want to give the impression that I don't think it is a good value but the demos should depict actual resolution, in my opinion.  Example - There is a free skydiving video where the guy is landing in a stadium. I can't make out any detailed view of the fans but still got the feeling of what it may be like to skydive into a stadium.  Not going to by any app until this is changed.

Comments

  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,040 Valuable Player
    edited November 30

    You mention that you wear tri-focal glasses, are you wearing these while using the Go?

    If so, that's probably the problem. The focal distance of the screens is the same for the whole of the screen, regardless of whether you're looking at the upper, central or lower areas.

    The reason the store domo may have looked better is possibly because that demo had you focusing your attention (and therefore your eyes) at predominantly the central area of the screen. And the skydiving video now has you looking at all areas of the screen equally, so the lower areas where the crowds are have you looking through the lower lens of your glasses.

    So the answer is that you must use single focal glasses that enable you to focus comfortably at roughly 1.5m - 2m.

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  • h.r.gargih.r.gargi Posts: 16
    NerveGear
    Hmmmmm... Details in higher distances are mostly not crisp. It may depend on the Cams, they are using. I got a 360 Nikon and the focus is not adjustable. So near objects are detailed, further ones not very. And the first time in VR in this demo the impressions are overwhelming. Later on you will notice more negative things you haven't seen before. I enjoy these experiences very much and I am exploring more and more things you can do with this device. 
  • Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
    NerveGear

    You mention that you wear tri-focal glasses, are you wearing these while using the Go?

    If so, that's probably the problem. The focal distance of the screens is the same for the whole of the screen, regardless of whether you're looking at the upper, central or lower areas.

    The reason the store domo may have looked better is possibly because that demo had you focusing your attention (and therefore your eyes) at predominantly the central area of the screen. And the skydiving video now has you looking at all areas of the screen equally, so the lower areas where the crowds are have you looking through the lower lens of your glasses.

    So the answer is that you must use single focal glasses that enable you to focus comfortably at roughly 1.5m - 2m.

    I did try a pair of glasses with single lenses set up for reading sheet music at about 6 ft. No difference. So are you saying that you see , using the Go, close to the resolution depicted  by the demo videos and the casting on the phone?
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,040 Valuable Player
    reading sheet music at 6ft is quite a distance, when I played piano & French horn, I don’t think the music was ever more than 3ft away, are you sure those were 6ft focas and for your eyes? I think whatever glasses you try, tri focal and bi-focal will definitely not work in a VR headset because of the principal that the screens are single focal length for the whole of the screen. My advise is check with your optician and ask him/her what they recommend for you, including a new eye test if you haven’t had one recently.
    Gateway 2000, Pentium II 300 Mhz CPU, 64Mb RAM, STB Velocity 128 AGP Graphics Card with 4MB SGRAM, 6.4Gb Hard Drive, US Robotics 56.5kbps Internal Modem, 12/24x CDROM Drive, Ensoniq AudioPCI, Windows 95.
  • Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
    NerveGear
    edited December 2
    After doing more research it looks like the issue has been named the screen door effect. I feel the demos should include the screen door effect so they don’t misrepresent their product.  Apparently wether you wear glasses or not you are still going to see this effect. Even when casted to my phone the screen door effect is not shown. The Go is still a great value  I am hoping Apple will do it right at a decent price in the future. There doesn’t seem to be any quality control at the store to stop misrepresenting developer’s product. This will prevent me from investing any more into the Oculus environment as what you see is not what you get. I did see one demo that did show the screen door effect so is possible to capture. This was a YouTube video discussing the SDE. 
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,040 Valuable Player
    edited December 2

    The screen door effect or SDE describes the ability to see the lattice that makes up the individual pixels of the screens.

    On the Rift, the resolution is high enough and the gap between pixels is small enough that the SDE is easily ignored. The Go has a much higher resolution, so the SDE is even less. I've not come across anyone who has an issue with the SDE of the Go.

    Are you sure your problem is the SDE? You said your wear tri-foal glasses using the Go and that definitely would cause problems. As would reading music 6 ft away!

    The SDE is the same for all apps because it's related to the hardware, not the app, and is the same whether you're demo is in a store or at home.

    This thread is increasing confusing.


    Edit: are you sure you're not confusing the SDE of the Go with the resolution of what you're watching? The resolution of a video for example can change hugely depending on how the source material was created, the resolution of the recording equipment, the amount of compression used when encoding the video etc.

    This is down to the video provider, Oculus have very little control over source material video quality, just as you'll find youtube videos with vastly different resolutions and compressions leading to huge variations in quality. If that's the cause, you just need to check the video details before downloading and viewing them and avoid the poor quality ones if they're causing you to get dissatisfied.

    Perhaps other users can recommend some good quality material.

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  • Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
    NerveGear
    edited December 3
    I've not come across anyone who has an issue with the SDE of the Go.
    You have now and there are several YouTube videos discussing this regarding the Go. 

    Wether it is the SDE, glasses or whatever, are you saying that what you see is as sharp and clear as is what is portrayed in video demo of apps and even what is casted to the phone?
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,040 Valuable Player
    edited December 3

    What do you mean by video demo?

    Are you saying you watched a video of the Go and you're counting that as a demo?

    Or are you saying you've had a demo of the Go hardware and watched a video on that demo Go?

    If you're saying you've just watched a video then I'd say that isn't a demo. I wouldn't take any notice of a demo of a TV for example if it was just a video of that TV being played on another TV cos that would be a demo of that other TV.

    The only demo that counts is a demo of the hardware particularly when the device in question relies so heavily on the individual's eyesight and perceptions, as VR equipment does. Everyone has different perceptions and expectations, not just with the screens but with FOV, comfort, compatibility with glasses etc.

    I'm definitely saying that a demo of the hardware would have shown you exactly how clear the picture is for you, even if you chose not to wear single vision glasses.

    As far as what is cast to a phone, I think we're getting to a fundamental misunderstanding of the technology. A phone may have similar screen resolution and similar screen size but is usually held 2 or 3 ft away and therefore only spreads across about little more than 1 degree of your vision.

    The screen in a VR headset may have the same number of pixels but those pixels are being spread across 100 degrees of your vision or there abouts, so resolution per degree of vision is obviously going to be 100 times less... or more. The technology to achieve pixel per degree resolution as high as a phone in your hand wont exist for many many years.

    I'm also definitely saying that different content will have varying levels of clarity which is up to you to chose which to view and why I've suggested other people can no doubt point you to some good content.

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  • Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
    NerveGear
    edited December 3
    Here is a screen shot of a demo video off the Oculus site. Go to it and watch the demo  When I view it in my Go it is ok but nothing close to what is being represented .  This one is free but if it wasn’t I personally would not purchase if I knew the demo was misrepresenting the actual experience  The exception would be if I watched the demo using the Go and liked it   Crow is 360 and awesome even with SDE  
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 4,999 Volunteer Moderator
    Are you watching the demo in vr or 2d flat screen?
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  • Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
    NerveGear
    I edited my post to answer. 
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,040 Valuable Player
    edited December 3

    I think he's watching on a monitor.

    @Captain3dog you're not responding to my specific points so it's difficult to help.

    There are 3 different causes of poor quality visuals. Firstly, you're wearing the wrong type of spectacles, tri-focals will prevent you from seeing all of the screen clearly.

    Secondly, source material and I've suggested that's down to what you choose to download.

    Thirdly, screen resolution and that's what it is based on the best technology that's currently available.

    If you're still wearing tri-focals, you're limiting the clarity right from the get-go. If you're expecting the resolution to be as clear as any video you're watching on a monitor or a phone that that's a misunderstanding of what's involved.

    If you're thinking it's SDE then that's extremely unlikely given that your glasses are almost certainly preventing you from seeing the pixel lattice clearly enough to see that level of detail.

    If you're saying the Go doesn't match the quality of a video displayed on a monitor the yeah we know that although it shouldn't be far off depending on what glasses you're wearing.

    There's little point in me watching that demo on a monitor because I know there'll be a difference between that and watching it in a Vr headset, or course it will. To simulate a true VR experience on a monitor would be impractical as the 2 are so different. Also I wear single vision glasses so like you, I see all of the monitor clearly, but unlike you I also see all of my VR screen clearly.

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  • Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
    NerveGear
    edited December 3

    There's little point in me watching that demo on a monitor because I know there'll be a difference between that and watching it in a Vr headset, or course it will. To simulate a true VR experience on a monitor would be impractical as the 2 are so different. Also I wear single vision glasses so like you, I see all of the monitor clearly, but unlike you I also see all of my VR screen clearly.

    So I think we have what is know as a “  Violent agreement”. After watching a few demo videos and reading reviews using the go other people have noticed this also.  One big problem with the video demos on the store using the go is that the screen size is so small you really don’t get an accurate idea either. 

    And where has Oculus posted anything about not using trifocals?
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,040 Valuable Player
    Ok I think we're getting into the realms of what's reasonable for individuals to work out for themselves.
    Tri-focals have three different focal lengths, a VR screen has a single focal length... why would it have more? Therefore using tri-focals or bi-focals will conflict with the use of a VR headset, either the top, the bottom or both will be unclear. There have been the occasional question on this forum about using bi-focals and that's where I'd expect such answers to be found.

    As for app demos not matching store videos, like I say, I just don't think it's  practical to simulate a VR headset on a monitor because it would never be accurate, would be partially subjective as it  would vary from person to person especially when they wear glasses.
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  • Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
    NerveGear
    A lot of people are brand new to VR and wear glasses or contacts.  Don't think they would be expert enough, as I, to understand the problems.  Found several threads discussing glasses, focal length .... and I can't find anything from Oculus like a white paper on what they recommend.  Many have requested info from Oculus but I didn't find them responding.  I have just sent a request also.  Even when it comes to trifocal glasses there are different types. Looks like people have gone to optometrists without finding a solution.  They have corresponded with the Framesdirect also and have been told they only provide a solution for near slightness.  Per their site: Lens Inserts are only available for prescriptions in the following ranges: SPH: 0 to -8.0 | CYL: 0 to -2.0

    I don't have the issues that some have where some locations of the screen are clearer then others.  I am not finding any noticeable changes.

    The intent of this thread was to see if anybody was getting a clear and crisp view with their Go that was close to demos videos on the web.  I suspect the answer is no but the experience can not be displayed in a video.  I guess the only way to demo an app properly would be to download it and try it out.  Not finding vendors doing this on the Oculus store.  Looks like people buy the apps anyway from reading the reviews. This is not that much different to buying any software.  I find the better developers on other platforms let you download a version with limitations before you buy.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 4,999 Volunteer Moderator
    Or you can buy from the Oculus store and if not liked return the app/game....... a la steam policy with usage under 2 hours i believe.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    And FlyInside Forum Admin.
    Flyinside Flight Simulator is coming !!!!! (In Beta)
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,040 Valuable Player

    I understand what you're saying @Captain3dog, sorry if I come across as overbearing or unhelpful, I can do that sometimes so will work on it! I really just wanted to get to the bottom of your particular issue so we get to the right solution.

    Anyway, I really do recommend asking your own optician about single vision glasses suitable for focusing on 1.5 to 2 metres, then revisit the experiences you're not happy with.

    Then if there definitely is an issue with the quality of the app, post a review of it within the Oculus store. I really do think there are big variations between apps and reviews help others deciding on which to download.

    Anyway, I'll back out of this thread and just say whatever the issue I hope you enjoy the Go as much as possible. I was tempted to get one myself for video viewing as the Rift isn't quite so good for that... but then Oculus announced the Quest which should have similarly improved visuals for movies, so I'll be waiting for that.

    Good luck!

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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,429 Volunteer Moderator
    edited December 3
    Just wanted to chime in here, what you see on a youtube GO advert, or your mobile phone or your 2d monitor will not match the visual quality of what is in VR, in fact, NONE of today's VR headsets can approach that quality yet. However, the GO has some of the best in class visuals compared to other solutions on the market.

    I think this is the case of slight confusion, a 2d video on a screen does not represent the VR experience in any way.
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  • Captain3dogCaptain3dog Posts: 9
    NerveGear
    Just wanted to chime in here, what you see on a youtube GO advert, or your mobile phone or your 2d monitor will not match the visual quality of what is in VR, in fact, NONE of today's VR headsets can approach that quality yet. However, the GO has some of the best in class visuals compared to other solutions on the market.

    I think this is the case of slight confusion, a 2d video on a screen does not represent the VR experience in any way.
    That’s what I was looking for. Given the price, form factor and limited capabilities I still feel this is an amazing product   
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