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Unless the BLOCK on old PCs is not removed there will be legal trouble for Oculus.

MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
Neo
Due to the Update 1.32 old PCs seen as non-compatible are being BLOCKED even if they were working 100% via the OculusSetupSSEBypass or other cpu registry hack.
No Oculus public announcement and 1000s of User's hours spent alone and with Support and getting told "we need a new PC!" and yet ONLY Lone Echo uses the SSE4.2 commands and the installer uses it as a check or we fail installation.
This stinks! We bought Rifts based upon they worked until 1.3 added the SSE4,2 check BUT they continued to work with hacks and we continued to buy GAMES/APPS as valued customers!
Now they just want rid of old PCs and FORCE us to buy new tech!!
Regardless of their Terms & Conditions you simply DO NOT discriminate in this world.
If this must go to a court they will indeed get more trouble than they it's worth to simply switch off a customers use in an instant!!!

Consider us as leaving until you revert this ASAP and possibly for life.

Comments

  • TomCgcmfcTomCgcmfc Posts: 489
    Trinity
    Eventually Microsoft will stop supporting win7 and many apps may not work then.   So what are you going to do, sue everyone in a class action suit?  If you think you have a case it is pretty easy to contact any legal firm and ask them to undertake this.  Some will do this on a no cost/ no win but will charge accordingly if a verdict is actually achieved.

    Imho you are best to move with the times and update your PC to at least recommended specs, not minimum specs, if you want to partake in current VR developments.  
    Alienware 17r4 Laptop with i7-7700hq 2.8/3.6, 32 gb ram, gtx1060 w/6gb ram, 256gb ssd, 1tb hdd, Oculus Rift w/2x sensors.  Now using an Alienware Graphics Amplifier (AGA) with Zotac gtx1080ti Blower and Asus vg248qe 144hz external monitor.  All works great!

    Also have a 64gb Oculus Go which I love for travel and quick VR Fixes.  Looking forward to the Quest!
  • ohgrantohgrant Posts: 82
    Hiro Protagonist
    I think Mac-Man has Win 10 and was having difficulty with UAC blocking the install? I really don't think that's what's going on. Have you tried to disable UAC https://articulate.com/support/article/how-to-turn-user-account-control-on-or-off-in-windows-10
     I have Win 7 so neither my OS or my CPU has Oculus's blessing. I'm on 1.32 and working well.
     I personally think it's bad medicine to officially support only one OS. Unprecedented for someone whos competition has now become MS. Vive supports Win7-10. If the goal is to get as many as possible in Oculus. Limiting your customers to Win 10 is a funny way to go about it. I'd much prefer to see Oculus go in a direction that has little to do with MS and their abortions.
    But that has nothing to do with Mac-Man's issue IMO so I digress.  
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,367 Power Poster
    If your PC doesn't meet the minimum specs you haven't got a hope in hell of winning a court case. Your case will get laughed out of court. Those minimum and recommended specs are there for a reason.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 1,872 Valuable Player
    For the cost of a lawyers retainer you would of bought the upgrades needed, by the time you get to court (if ever) bought them many times over

    Appreciate your frustration but you will always end up playing by a companys rules if you wish to use their products
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,129 Power Poster
    MAC_MAN86 said:
    This stinks! We bought Rifts based upon they worked until 1.3 added the SSE4,2 check BUT they continued to work with hacks and we continued to buy GAMES/APPS as valued customers!
    Now they just want rid of old PCs and FORCE us to buy new tech!!
    Regardless of their Terms & Conditions you simply DO NOT discriminate in this world.
    If this must go to a court they will indeed get more trouble than they it's worth to simply switch off a customers use in an instant!!!

    Consider us as leaving until you revert this ASAP and possibly for life.

    Even if it worked with hacks before, you’ve always known that you are outside of the specified hardware requirements, and thus there were no guarantees that it would continue to work. 

    I ran for years with an outdated Core2Quad CPU, because it continued to work, until it didn’t. I first experienced the SSE4.2 issue when I tried to set up the DK2. They revised the software and removed the check back then, but I knew I was on borrowed time and started planning a new VR rig. 

    Your old Xeon CPU may be great for your other purposes, but perhaps it’s time to think about a VR system using more typical current PC gaming hardware. 
    i7 5820K @ 4.25 GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32 GB | Corsair HX 750W
    Corsair Hydro H100i | Samsung SSDs: 860 Evo 1 TB, 850 Evo 1 TB, 840 Evo 1 TB | Seagate BarraCuda HDD 3 TB
    My Oculus Medium sketchbook thread, and my Oculus Medium Gallery
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 4,051 Valuable Player
    edited December 3

    There seems to be 4 issues here if I've read all the related posts correctly:

    The first is that there is a hardware requirement for the Rift that is quite high compared with most hardware you buy for a computer, which is understandable.

    The second is that the new Oculus updates appear to prevent hardware not meeting the requirement to run the Oculus software rather than previous versions just giving a warning.

    The third seems to be that Rift owners can no longer side-load older versions of pre-saved Oculus software to get around the issue.

    And the forth seems to be that unsupported OS now includes Windows 7 and that also now prohibits Oculus install.


    I can totally understand the Rift and any other VR headset needing a PC in the top 10% to run it adequately (I'm guessing at the percentage) and I can understand Oculus not wanting unsupported older versions of their software being installed.

    I have a lot of sympathy though for people who were using a work around and now can't and personally I think Windows 7 should either still be supported or users should be able to run versions of Oculus that allow it to run on Windows 7. Just with the proviso that those users no longer get support if there is a problem. That seems reasonable to me.

    It may be that Oculus have been receiving a lot of support tickets from people who have PCs that never met minimum specs and have thought ok enough, we're going to now prevent those PCs from running the software, in other words telling the user that they've been getting support for below spec machines but really shouldn't have been. And they maybe think this will help reduce the problems.

    It probably will have the opposite effect on the number of support tickets though, so Oculus may backtrack.

    Anyway, bottom line is I suppose I'm saying I'd advise on upgrading whatever needs to be upgraded (hardware or OS)but I totally sympathise with anyone who has this issue. And I'd advise anyone with this issue to open a ticket regardless.

    Gateway 2000, Pentium II 300 Mhz CPU, 64Mb RAM, STB Velocity 128 AGP Graphics Card with 4MB SGRAM, 6.4Gb Hard Drive, US Robotics 56.5kbps Internal Modem, 12/24x CDROM Drive, Ensoniq AudioPCI, Windows 95.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 5,010 Volunteer Moderator


    And he bought a new PC
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    And FlyInside Forum Admin.
    Flyinside Flight Simulator is coming !!!!! (In Beta)
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    edited December 3
    It's hacks that got Apollo back to Earth so let's have the greatest respect.
    It isn't a UAC issue as discovered in the thread posted in 2nd post.
    There is no valid reason for this discrimination based upon our systems ran as well as an i5/i7 for some chips.
    They use a "RECOMMENDED COMPATIBILITY LIST" & that list is only on recommendation.
    Now they simply added a BLOCK to anything not on that list so now what? Is that their way of not be bothered to remove the "Warning - your system does not meet the RECOMMENDED requirements and may not get the best performance"???
    Seriously - this is unforgivable to discriminate and FORCE us to simply buy new due to this!
    e.g. your Trainers are now out of fashion as they now feature 2 stripes not 1 - Please throw them away and BUY NEW!!!
    If no way to get access into Home then no way to access the games we own (our property) to even use them on other Headsets.
    It's principle here folks - do you want your new i7s to get BLOCKED just because we now have the daft i9 coming out??? That is a mafia trading style!

    I am happy to upgrade in my own time if I find a suitable PC to do so but no need to throw away what works well by FORCE without notice nor our consent akin to rape! I do not expect SUPPORT as in if my machine has issues different than they can help Recommended PCs if any but Support is not the same as "HEY - WE BLOCKED YA!"
    We can setup a Facebook Group and arrange this legal action together.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 5,010 Volunteer Moderator
    Rape compared to blocking an old outdated cpu? You have issues mate, real issues.......
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    And FlyInside Forum Admin.
    Flyinside Flight Simulator is coming !!!!! (In Beta)
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    edited December 3
    MERRY XMAS my ass Oculus!

    @Techy111 "Akin" meaning obviously to against our will like an assault. I do feel assaulted by this robbery as do others.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 5,010 Volunteer Moderator
    You mention rape in comparison to your nonsense once more and I'll ban you before you can blink, understood ?
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.
    And FlyInside Forum Admin.
    Flyinside Flight Simulator is coming !!!!! (In Beta)
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    My Xeon Quad ran much better than many new PCs on their recommended list. What purpose does it bring to BLOCK IT? Oh buy another PC which tons of users on here are having problems with!...BY RECOMMENDATION not by ONLY WORKS WITH LIST. 
    I suppose they can't use that list instead as that would be a lie especially as it worked via a Hack that simply fools the Installer to pass the check. Nothing uses SSE4.2 except Lone Echo. 

    This is like you can ONLY use 97/98 Ron fuel in your petrol cars from now on even though 95 is fine except the Turbo is not tuned for best optimum mpg on that.
  • Hiro_Protag0nistHiro_Protag0nist Posts: 4,523 Valuable Player
    MAC_MAN86 said:
    Due to the Update 1.32 old PCs seen as non-compatible are being BLOCKED even if they were working 100% via the OculusSetupSSEBypass or other cpu registry hack.
    No Oculus public announcement and 1000s of User's hours spent alone and with Support and getting told "we need a new PC!" and yet ONLY Lone Echo uses the SSE4.2 commands and the installer uses it as a check or we fail installation.
    This stinks! We bought Rifts based upon they worked until 1.3 added the SSE4,2 check BUT they continued to work with hacks and we continued to buy GAMES/APPS as valued customers!
    Now they just want rid of old PCs and FORCE us to buy new tech!!
    Regardless of their Terms & Conditions you simply DO NOT discriminate in this world.
    If this must go to a court they will indeed get more trouble than they it's worth to simply switch off a customers use in an instant!!!

    Consider us as leaving until you revert this ASAP and possibly for life.



  • ohgrantohgrant Posts: 82
    Hiro Protagonist
      What Xeon do you have bro? My E3 1280 supports SSE 4.2. I didn't hear back from a support tech in that thread if indeed that they are now blocking the install of processors that only support 4.1. The other guy in that thread that has a Xeon says his also supports SSE 4.2 but has the install issue too. I have Win 7,  a Sandybridge Xeon and  Oculus 1.32
     From here it's looking like a Win 10 issue.
    I find it unlikely that your Xeon doesn't support 4.2. Those guys with AMD phenom's might have lights out but I think you and those other fellows problem is unrelated and most probably a win 10 issue. JMO     
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    Mine is not SSE4.2, it's the Xeon E5450 but has worked with Rift for 3yrs until I did a System Restore last month. It has no capability to run the only game for Oculus that uses SSE4.2 commands. It's as though I am not allowed the privilege to use what works on my PC as though they turned it into a bloody XBOX!
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 1,024 Poster of the Week
    Ultimately you're trying to use a device that has a minimum specification listed and you don't meet the specification - how it used to work, or what performance you get out of your hardware compared to the listed minimum CPU is irrelevant.

    The primary reason (in my experience) for this sort of thing happening is that if there is a CPU command set that isn't available in the Xeon CPU's that the Rift needs to reference (which there will be at some point even if there isn't now) your software will crash. To prevent that they have indicated a minimum spec, and are (admittedly now even though they didn't before) enforcing that required specification.

    there are no real world/physical analogies not involving computers that can explain this sort of thing, as it's an issue that's possibly unique to the world of Computing.

    Yes it feels crappy to have this happen, but you saw the listed spec before you bought your device (or should have), and that specification has been available since before the Rift was available for purchase.

    It is up to you the consumer/purchaser to ensure you meet that specification, not the companies responsibility to allow you to perform outside of that specification.
    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • ShocksOculusShocksOculus Posts: 133
    Art3mis

    That's an 11 year old CPU !!
    I got a saying:  If you want to run the latest in PC tech and software (something like VR), then you better have the latest hardware and OS to run it.

    You were just buying time with your old CPU being able to run Oculus software. Oculus has made in clear with previous actions that they have no problem changing/updating the minimum system requirements (dropping Win7 as an example).  When Oculus Dash rolled out some of the biggest complaining were those running barely minimum or subspec CPUs. Thus, with unsupported hardware, what may work today can be broken tomorrow.




    i7-7700k, GTX 1080Ti (11G) || MSI B150m (1 USB controller) + Inateck 4-port USB to PCIe (2nd USB controller)
    Oculus RIFT - 3 sensor Room-scale
    Oculus GO

  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    I can run it as I did for 3yrs without all the problems users are getting on here from "recommendation".
    I can run it USB2 on all 2 Sensors + HMD if I need but installed USB just on the PCI (not PCIe) card.
    That is also a demonstration of how capable old tech is.
    Look - ONLY LONE ECHO uses SSE4.2 and even that uses it's very own cpu check. No reason to use the check which simply PREVENTS THE INSTALLER TO COMPLETE - It simply works if they remove the block please!
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 1,024 Poster of the Week
    but what about the next game that needs it? or the next 10?

    you're asking Oculus to allow you to ignore their required specification even though it was published almost 2 years ago. you're also asking them to open themselves up to people (potentially yourself given the circumstances) complaining that "brand new XYZ game (just like Lone Echo last year) doesn't work even though all my other games do!!!!!"..


    Meanwhile, Microsoft has deprecated external PABX usage in Office365 Exchange Implementations, and will be completely removing the facility by the end of 2019.. Microsoft (and others) do stuff like that that affects multi-billion dollar companies and seriously impacts costs all the time as tech changes.
    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    edited December 3
    If I choose to run the next gen SSE4.2 command games (they will not allow installs as they do own checks) then I would not have to complain and I don't as it simply tells me it failed the SSE4.2 check.

    It is not and never has been a REQUIRED SPEC but a RECOMMENDED MINIMUM else we get the WARNING - NOT MEETING RECOMMENDED MINIMUM SPEC MAY RESULT IN POOR PERFORMANCE which we do (did) and can carry on using it simply because the performance is totally fine for 99% games. Out of the most popular ever games I bought over 3yrs I can only say that From Other Suns is affected by my lack of a better cpu. All other AAA titles run very well indeed. You guys would not know this and you would never see that warning.

    In other words, they have removed the WARNING by BLOCKING PCs which would've popped it up!!!
    This is beyond acceptable and is a blatant kick in the teeth to customers paying for a large number of games.
    I see totally no need what so ever for this move. Once ASW2 is released again those cpus will likely achieve 45fps 100% which is bloody fine quality! There are Users reporting that even on their RTX2080Ti has only 30fps in Stations in Elite exactly like my GTX1080 on my 11yr old Xeon Quad! (elsewhere is solid 45fps)

    OK - lets just throw everything out! Throw out your car, your wife oh and the kids too!!! (joke)
  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 1,024 Poster of the Week
    dude, you're running a processor that's 11 years old... breath and move on.

    done now, see ya.
    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • HiThere_HiThere_ Posts: 1,248
    3Jane
    TomCgcmfc said:
    Eventually Microsoft will stop supporting win7 and many apps may not work then.   So what are you going to do
    In my case I'm not planning to upgrade anything until CV2 comes out.

    And I wouldn't mind if Oculus VR waited until that CV2, before messing around with their minimum requirements.
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    edited December 4
    Me too. Sure I got my eye on a new PC but want my oldie for my Asian Girlfriend. You see I'm not a racist nor a throw-away parasite. Obviously most users will probably sell their CV1s or buy another PC just because they got the cash to throw at it. I got enough to buy a brand new Porsche Caymen R but gonna spend it on other goodness in life.
  • ohgrantohgrant Posts: 82
    Hiro Protagonist
    . Yea, same here.with no intention of upgrading this PC. Too many licenses from vendors that no longer exist to do online authorization. More value in music production VST's.,many times more than the entire amount of my CVI Oculus hardware and VR games combined. 
     IMO, if in fact, it is true that all those guys in that thread, including MacMan, are actually being blocked. It will indeed be a reason for me to lose more confidence in them. If something was added to home or dash that now requires 4.2 I can't see a reason why and if so why there simply wasn't a check in the install and some kind of warning.
     I'm becoming more confident that I will get an update and it will be lights out for me because I have Win 7. I'll try to make my meltdown entertaining. 
     I have 2 contingency plans when that day comes.
    When I was blessed with the first Dash/Home update and had issues with losing USB there was a link to a thread that a guy posted an edited version of the previous driver with no home at all. Just a white room with a grid to launch your games. Didn't need to uninstall Oculus, rename a few folders, stop the Oculus services and set them to stop in windows system services. Copy the files to your main Oculus install path and it just worked. I have that driver backed up. That's plan A
    Plan B. Is the Vive that's just sitting there not being used. I got it for the lighthouses and controllers in anticipation that I will start seeing buy it now buttons for the Pimax 5k+ I'm pretty sure I need all of them...

     For what it's worth MacMan, if you are indeed blocked because of your CPU now. I think this will give you some functionality back.   https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/9odbvz/       
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    edited December 4
    Thanks for your support @ohgrant although I had used the very 1st Hack provided by @scawen over 3yrs ago and then from last year used the 2nd Hack OculusSetupBypassSSE which allowed us to also select another drive within Setup. The old one had stopped working was the reason. Once you use one of those methods on a drive you need to install fresh OS to get it to install 1st time but with AV=OFF (Firewall was not a problem). I then added the HOMELESS Hack a few months ago as you say above and it worked a charm and even added Black as the Background as their other update on that. Now, even a fresh OS and AV=OFF will not complete and all the other Thread (in 2nd post link) suggests it is due to the installer constantly attempting to restart each time before completion. Is it a BUG? Support just want to tell us to buy new PC.
    Just maybe it can be fixed again but will take another consumer Hack as Oculus are defiant against any support obviously. I say once again, it is their Policy to suggest RECOMMENDED CPU and that does not mean NON-COMPATIBLE LIST. Obviously they never removed their WARNING SIGN in Home because as I say, (if not intentional) they just BLOCKED THEM to never need to warn us!
    That is a design to force sales tech: immoral and of mafia-style trading.

    I too use my PC as a Music DAW and the VSTs and other DAW effects are way too expensive to lose. 90% of them work on WIN10 and some needed the Troubleshooter Install. 1 used to require Admin Account to be viewable at Login to store access codes in WIN7 but sadly it only works the very first time you open that effect to then need the codes ready and support are not using an instant pingpong email service unlock for it any longer. I did find out my WDM Driver for the DAW takes up all available streams so a 2nd Soundcard's Mic didn't work in E:D but others were ok. It's a struggle to keep finding a PC with all the Slot types you need in a Workstation.
  • rh_galaxyrh_galaxy Posts: 62
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited December 4
    Then Oculus have to handle people with old hardware specially, so they can't buy certain games (a check after you have bought it already is no good - it generates refund/support). Also Oculus might want/need to use hardware abilities not yet used but supported by the recommended minimum in their SDK to optimize to extend the lifetime of their minimum spec.

    It's a good strategy to remove support for outdated hw that few uses... it reduces complexity of the sw, and for the support. Of course only relevant when there are differences that would need special cases to handle, SSE4.2 is that.
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    edited December 4
    Yes it would've been both simple and expected to know Lone Echo has a SSE4.2 check of it's very own. It was a matter of trying to get it to work without knowing if it was just the Menu Settings as it allowed us to setup the graphics prior loading it oddly enough. Frankly I'd be happy without Tech Support but wasn't Blocked is all - then just to add a switch to remove that Warning Sign in Home (not same as Health Warning).
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