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NVIDIA AI turns reality into virtual reality (one step closer to the matrix)

LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,429 Volunteer Moderator
edited December 3 in General
Seems that an idea I wrote on the proverbial napkin a few years back that posed the following question:

"I wonder if you could get AI to look at GTA V game footage, and then after being trained what it should look like in real life, could the AI apply reality, onto the 3d game engine"

Well, folks, NVIDIA researchers are on it, after training AI on roads, buildings, cars etc they have managed to make the AI generate "reality" on top of a rudimentary Unreal Engine environment. This is all early stages, but the possibilities are endless, and a true precursor to the matrix future.

Just think about it, in the future there won't be ray tracing, raster or any other "traditional" graphics engines, or cuda cores, there will be Neural Networks that generate images indistinguishable from reality running on Tensor cores, 



https://www.engadget.com/2018/12/03/nvidia-ai-video-to-video-synthesis/
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Comments

  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,039 Valuable Player
    Wow - deep learning graphics!
    I hope I get to see this applied in visual simulation soon. It looks like a serious future, and will have a lot of graphic developers scared.
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,429 Volunteer Moderator
    kevinw729 said:
    Wow - deep learning graphics!
    I hope I get to see this applied in visual simulation soon. It looks like a serious future, and will have a lot of graphic developers scared.

    Actually, this is the only real way I envisioned how direct neural interface VR would work in the future if we do eventually manage to have a direct to brain VR technology, traditional engines won't work here, however, Neural Net generated imagery could be more compatible with biological neural interfaces.
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  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,039 Valuable Player
    LZoltowski said:
    .....
    Actually, this is the only real way I envisioned how direct neural interface VR would work in the future if we do eventually manage to have a direct to brain VR technology, traditional engines won't work here, however, Neural Net generated imagery could be more compatible with biological neural interfaces.

    I have never been a fan of the aspiration for "neural imaging" - having had laser-light directly shot into my eyes by one of the earliest HMD's, I was always concerned by the "limiters" that would be needed for future applications. However, what you say is how I too see this emerging - once the AI can create a visualisation that can pass the blood-brain barrier then we really will have the first "dream machine"!


    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,118
    Wintermute
    This is really amazing. Maybe AI can fill in the details to create photorealistic VR worlds one day. 

    Also, consider how AI can be used to enhance the behavior of NPC's to be more realistic. 
  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    All Asians do Gangnam Style....he lies ;)
    This tech already means that video cctv is no longer permissible in a court unless confirmed to be the person by the accused themselves by tricking them.
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,429 Volunteer Moderator
    MAC_MAN86 said:
    All Asians do Gangnam Style....he lies ;)
    This tech already means that video cctv is no longer permissible in a court unless confirmed to be the person by the accused themselves by tricking them.
    Let's be careful of racial generalisations. Thanks.
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  • MAC_MAN86MAC_MAN86 Posts: 1,063
    Neo
    Just asking mods, are jokes aloud here if they are obviously jokes? I mean, it's very hard to not be offended if we wish to be now is it when a joke is given. A few mods still use memes as jokes. I don't wish to live without humour. OK?
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,279 Power Poster
    MAC_MAN86 said:
    Just asking mods, are jokes aloud here if they are obviously jokes? I mean, it's very hard to not be offended if we wish to be now is it when a joke is given. A few mods still use memes as jokes. I don't wish to live without humour. OK?

    Some friendly advice, mate. You brought up "rape" and "asians" in the last 24 hours. Maybe take a step back for awhile? Your contributions to troubleshooting and even music are good. Would hate to see you get banned for unnecessary remarks. Na' mean?
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 2,705 Valuable Player
    AI is still a silly word to me. Don't get me wrong - I think AI is great - but some of what we call AI is really not AI - but just smart coding. Amazing work nonetheless - like wow!
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 12,279 Power Poster
    Mradr said:
    AI is still a silly word to me. Don't get me wrong - I think AI is great - but some of what we call AI is really not AI - but just smart coding. Amazing work nonetheless - like wow!

    I agree. It's a term for the average consumer though. The type of consumer who doesn't really care to know or understand the difference between a system based on Fuzzy Logic vs a Neural Network.
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  • jmw121jmw121 Posts: 4 Oculus Start Member
    My input into this from my personal perspective as mainly a graphic designer (i do code and other things as well but my "skilltree" is highest on 3D graphic design) i would gladly take a step back if this technology became mainstream.

    Of course youd still need graphic artists as not every simulation would be based in our realty, but personally working on an urban styled title myself for next year, id really like this tech lol

    currently im doing a lot of texture trickery with materials to get an object looking good close and far but imagine seeing a building and walking up and inch from your eye seeing the imperfections in the bricks!

    Sorry for the long post lol i geek out about stuff as cool as this lol
    John Wever - Syntheon
  • jmw121jmw121 Posts: 4 Oculus Start Member
    Hope this is allowed, this is a screen from a test i did, its really just a texture titled under a texture to create some kind of okay look when up close, but its flaw is its tiled, 

    This tech could have every square foot of detail infinitely random. 
    John Wever - Syntheon
  • jmw121jmw121 Posts: 4 Oculus Start Member

    John Wever - Syntheon
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,512
    Wintermute
    edited December 5
    I read Awaken Online this year in which a (fictional, real erm) AI was created to design and build a new kind of RPG. It was essentially every NPC, Tree, building and Animal.  A good read if you like light adventure stories. 

    It made complete sense though that this is the way games will eventually go. It just takes way too long for humans to create complex detailed worlds. Imagine a real AI that could make new worlds like Skyrim with interactive NPC'S in weeks instead of years. In the book it also fully tailored each adventure to the player and was able to create a full history and memory for each NPC. Of course things go bad but what good book doesn't :)

    Despite games looking slick and beautiful, the one thing I feel has not moved on is AI in NPC characters. I still think we had equally intelligent bots in Quake many moons back as we have today. I used to feel that way about flat screens but we have moved on now thanks to Oculus. 

  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,429 Volunteer Moderator
    @Luciferous

    Yes! NPC AI, doesn't seem to be in any widespread use at the moment, I wonder what the barriers are. I have seen some very convincing chatbots that can hold a decent conversation etc.

    Perhaps computing cost is too great, I wonder if GPU's having Tensor Cores being more common in the future will really give us AI powered NPC's. 
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  • kzintzikzintzi Posts: 1,024 Poster of the Week
    part of the problem with decent NPC AI is that people complain when it does the same things as a human - case in point, when the Thief remake came out, there was lots of complaining that the AI had been dumbed down, but then the Dev's released a statement/article that said they had to otherwise when the AI heard the character it waited for it and hunted him down too well and people complained that the AI was too good.

    plus, a real decent NPC AI would be just the code you'd need for your hunter-killer robots when they take over the world!! :tongue:


    Though you are more than slightly incoherent, I agree with you Madam,
    a plum is a terrible thing to do to a nostril.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,512
    Wintermute
    I think though surely there could be options for that depending on players preference. I know games have level of difficulty but this just seems more enemies or more hits to kill them. plus with the standard AI upping the AI intelligence just equates to them having super human abilities like seeing you in a bush a mile off at night. 
  • kojackkojack Posts: 4,650 Volunteer Moderator


    Perhaps computing cost is too great, I wonder if GPU's having Tensor Cores being more common in the future will really give us AI powered NPC's. 
    Not if the tensor cores are also being used for ray tracing and dlss. :)


    It also depends on the actual AI techniques being used. Neural Networks seem the most suited to Tensor, but there's a lot of other techniques that are useful in games that might not fit as well (while I've done a fair bit of GPU coding and a LOT of CPU coding, I don't know much about the tensor core model).


    Since we're talking about AI and graphics, here's a certain moderator's avatar recreated by a line drawing genetic algorithm (specifically an asexual reproducing hill climber) that I wrote. 40000 generations (only a few minutes) and a genome of around 4700 lines. (I set it to cap off adding new lines at 5000, at that point it is only allowed to delete or move existing ones).


    While genetic algorithms themselves aren't directly AI, they are a common method of growing neural networks to solve problems that don't have a known solution to train against. Most of those demos you may of seen of physics bodies (creatures, bipeds, etc) learning to walk are done with genetic algorithms breeding neural networks.


    One of the big issues of game AI is that more advanced versions can be rather unpredictable and very hard to test. Bethesda ran into that with their Radiant AI in Oblivion. It was really cool, but so many unexpected (and game breaking) things happened in testing than they had to disable it before release.
  • BrixmisBrixmis Posts: 2,011
    Project 2501
    edited December 7
    Case in point:

    People have complained in more than a few flight sims about the "Golden AK47" - the single shot from a rifle that brings down their multi-million pound fighter, yet recently I have been reading about unofficial RAF ops in Oman, and one of their aircraft was brought down by a single AK47 bullet - which went through one of the fuel lines.




  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 5,367 Power Poster
    What they REALLY need to do for neural networks is base everything on a superior brain. I will quite happily donate my brain to gaming science when I pop my clogs so that they have something top drawer to work with. B)
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,429 Volunteer Moderator
    snowdog said:
    What they REALLY need to do for neural networks is base everything on a superior brain. I will quite happily donate my brain to gaming science when I pop my clogs so that they have something top drawer to work with. B)

    Image result for steve martin brain
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  • Jake_DragonJake_Dragon Posts: 55
    Hiro Protagonist
    You know your going to have to buy a new PC right :D 
  • shadowfroggershadowfrogger Posts: 502
    Trinity
    Yeah. There are lots of issues with machine learning A.I.  Most of these problems, Devs will have to create work around and tools to help create human like A.I.  Or sloppy and beatable A.I depending on the game type.  E.g, in FPS or platform games. The most efficient way to move is micromovements which can't be done by a player.  You may have to introduce some sort of reaction time into the learning code.

    Other possible ways are to beta test and record massive amounts of human gameplay and try use that data to recreate a workable npc. But that would mainly only work for movement and shooting patterns. (Which still is useful)
    I think this type of AI will be the future of all games as eventually it will be easier to set the rules up and get it working for your game rather then manually coding everything.  But I don't think the tools to really do this well on a AAA game exist yet. So we will probably see small implementations and improvements until the first AAA game manages to pull off some AI that is truly ground breaking and reamarkable.  Then there will be no looking back.

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