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Double rendering, stuttering / Jitter and negative performance

Fri13Fri13 Posts: 55
Hiro Protagonist

I have for now a half a year suffered from terrible performance with Rift. Three camera setup, tried with extension and without extension cables. Sensors are in two USB 3.0 and one USB 2.0 ports, tried drivers for USB extension card from Microsoft as from manufacturer. Tried sensors on the motherboard alone etc.
Setup is tested in dark room (no sunlight) with closest distance (1 meter apart each sensor so extreme close-setup) as with one or two sensors instead all three.

The problem is that Rift draws everything twice. Even looking just one eye, everything is ghosting. If I disable ASW then everything is super smoothly ghosting, but if I enable it it just draws ugly everything that is hands and head movements. This is visible everywhere, most of the time. Like just going to Oculus Home, all runs smoothly. If I keep head still but move hands, they are double drawn. And the strange part is that I see them twice so that if I touch some controls so that virtual hand goes to fist or moves finger, the ghost model doesn't, while the normal hand does. The ghost always stays as static open hand form with both hands. If I turn head, everything gets ghosting.

Every graphics games etc run 90 FPS, but all hand and head movements cause serious ghosting.
And that ghosting can not be recorded on the duplication on computer screen, but is only visible on HMD. I can run even extremely heavy CPU games like DCS World without any graphical problems (45 FPS static) but only if the HMD or hands do not move. Once I turn or move head or I move hands, either hands or everything goes double drawing.

I just today ran the Oculus Debug Tool and it gave even on the Oculus Home a performance headroom -15% but 90 FPS. Every animation, graphics etc is smooth unless I move hands or head. 

I have no monitoring softwares (MSI afterburner etc etc etc), nor any anti-virus, nor any video recording (Nvidia Shadowplay) nor any V-Sync (even for desktop). And even Steam is not turned On (its OpenVR mode).

I don't want to uninstall Oculus Home as I will lose the games saves and progress... 

Comments

  • Fri13Fri13 Posts: 55
    Hiro Protagonist
    And as additional, rolled back a Nvidia drivers to 188.31 version and it did help for a while, but then on second boot all double rendering returned.

    I just can't find out how to pinpoint the source, it looks it has something to do with sensors as the hands and HMD movements cause jitter, but then again Nvidia drivers has caused problem too. 
  • GATOxVoSGATOxVoS Posts: 440
    Trinity
    edited January 2019
    nVidia 188.31????? How are you even able to obtain those drivers? You should at least be on the most stable 4xx.xx series (depending on your card, but I suggest getting 417.22 unless you have a RTX 2060), as those will have the best VR compatibility (unless I'm missing something about these older drivers and VR).

    Also, I haven't run the Oculus Debug Tool, but if you're getting a performance headroom of negative-fifteen percent I believe that means you actually aren't getting a smooth experience; that you might actually not be getting an accurate reading of 90 FPS, or if your are indeed getting 90 FPS that it's happening when the tracking system doesn't have to do lots of processing.

    What is your complete PC setup, make/model of all parts attached to your PC? 

    Also to note: For some months now, I've been getting double hands while Home 2.0 is active and I open up the Oculus start menu. It's not really double-drawing frames, but just a silly bug that overlays the start menu hands on top of the Home 2.0 hands. But, if that's not the case you're having, disregard this little tid-bit.
    PC Specs:
    Intel i7-6700k @ 4.5 Ghz
    Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 3 Motherboard
    RTX 2080 Ti - MSI VENTUS
    16 GB CAS-10 RAM @ 2400 MHz
    Startech 4-port/4-USB controller add-on card
    850W Corsair HX850 PSU
    4-Sensor, Roomscale Setup
  • BodphastBodphast Posts: 2
    NerveGear
    Greetings,
    Sorting out very similar issues over the past 4 days I have found the following that don't play well with Oculus. Now that I have addressed them all, Oculus is flawless for me, hopefully this helps you as well.
    - Latest Nvidia Drivers
    - Get rid of ICue from Corsair and run Corsair Link
    - Opt out of Steam Beta (whether Steam is running or not)
    - (Z170a MB) Turn off XMP for RAM (still great performance)
    - Set all sampling etc to 1.0 and work up from there
  • Fri13Fri13 Posts: 55
    Hiro Protagonist
    GATOxVoS said:
    nVidia 188.31????? How are you even able to obtain those drivers? You should at least be on the most stable 4xx.xx series (depending on your card, but I suggest getting 417.22 unless you have a RTX 2060), as those will have the best VR compatibility (unless I'm missing something about these older drivers and VR).
    You can download almost any driver from Nvidia, and those were in many place recommend as the last compatible driver versions that didn't cause trouble. Of course I am always on the latest (and sometimes I try beta).
    Also, I haven't run the Oculus Debug Tool, but if you're getting a performance headroom of negative-fifteen percent I believe that means you actually aren't getting a smooth experience; that you might actually not be getting an accurate reading of 90 FPS, or if your are indeed getting 90 FPS that it's happening when the tracking system doesn't have to do lots of processing
    The FPS goes easily to 90 in every other VR game than DCS World where you are always CPU bottlenecked


    What is your complete PC setup, make/model of all parts attached to your PC? 

    Also to note: For some months now, I've been getting double hands while Home 2.0 is active and I open up the Oculus start menu. It's not really double-drawing frames, but just a silly bug that overlays the start menu hands on top of the Home 2.0 hands. But, if that's not the case you're having, disregard this little tid-bit.

    That sounds about it, double draw of the hands of everything that is related to hands tracking. Even in the Oculus installation setup has double frames on hands (HMD stationary) and then on everything when HMD moves. For setup I have i7-8700k (and tested overclocked it to 5.2Ghz for DCS (it is a single core performance really)), 64GB RAM and with three GPU tested, Vega 64 Nitro, 1080Ti and now just installed from old setup a 1060Ti as minimal setup. And all setups cause the exact same double frames. No matter WHAT is running, it is just double drawn frames everything that is related to HMD or Touch Controllers movement. It is not FPS that is drouble, but Oculus sensors capability. Those have been tested on motherboard as on two external USB card and no problems was previously year ago. It all really stated after the Home 2.0 got few updates and then Nvidia 4xx series drivers got out. The driver 188.31 really did help for a start, but then did keep going the double frames. It first started to happen with some games that double frames got started to be drawn after a minute or two of start, and then when computer was rebooted all was fine even for hours, until then again other day it just started again. And then it has went to situation that it just draws double frames all the time.

    I just think I need to reinstall Oculus totally, but I don't want to lose any games saves as they are annoyingly integrated in stupid way. 
  • GATOxVoSGATOxVoS Posts: 440
    Trinity
    edited January 2019
    Sorry about the driver confusion on my part. I'm just interested in how you got your GPU's to run on 188.31, seeing as search results pull up that those are from around 2010. I'm probably just confusing the numbers.

    The issue with the hands though is that my setup---although it overlays the hands in certain cases---does not affect performance at all; it's really just a graphics bug that doesn't hurt anything but my faith in QA ;) so we'll have to keep digging for your true issue. 

    It does sound like you might need to reinstall things, before that painful adventure begins, here are some more questions:
    -What OS are you running; Windows 10/8/7?
    ----When's the last time you've done a clean install of your OS? Clean as in complete wipe of the disk then install. 
    -What make/model PSU do you have? Same with motherboard?
    -How are your temps and voltage on the CPU looking? 5.2 Ghz is pretty impressive on an 8700k (I could only dream that my next intel CPU can make it to 5.0 Ghz; 5.2 Ghz would have me bragging to all my friends, haha). Checking GPU temps as well is always a good thing, just to cover all the bases.
    ----SideNote1: If you're looking for good monitoring software, I'd suggest hwmonitor as its pretty lightweight and covers almost all your bases (downside is that I believe it is not hardware-level monitoring, so temps/voltages may be a couple points off of the true values).
    ----SideNote2: I'd try taking your CPU back to stock and seeing what happens if you haven't already. Same goes for your RAM if you have it overclocked or on an XMP profile (like @Bodphast said).
    -When you tested your different GPU's did you uninstall the AMD drivers when switching to a nVidia card (and vice-versa) with DDU, and do clean installs of the drivers (as in not letting the Windows OS install their copy of the nVidia drivers)?
    -Are your motherboard BIOS and Chipset drivers up-to-date?

     
    PC Specs:
    Intel i7-6700k @ 4.5 Ghz
    Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 3 Motherboard
    RTX 2080 Ti - MSI VENTUS
    16 GB CAS-10 RAM @ 2400 MHz
    Startech 4-port/4-USB controller add-on card
    850W Corsair HX850 PSU
    4-Sensor, Roomscale Setup
  • Fri13Fri13 Posts: 55
    Hiro Protagonist
    edited February 2019
    GATOxVoS said:
    The issue with the hands though is that my setup---although it overlays the hands in certain cases---does not affect performance at all; it's really just a graphics bug that doesn't hurt anything but my faith in QA ;) so we'll have to keep digging for your true issue. 



    My all other graphics runs perfectly unless the Oculus Rift or Touch Controllers are moving and the graphics bug effects only to the devices itself. As I said, if I record video from display of the cloned window, there is not a single graphical bug at all. No ghosting, no jittery, no FPS drops... NOTHING: On the screen everything runs perfectly. But when you look via HMD, everything has the double frame drawing based the HMD movement direction. If HMD stays stationary, there is no problem what so ever at all at any given time. Only when the HMD rotates or moves the double frame ghosting happens. And that is not the AWS because that is totally another kind looking "blob" effect. If the HMD stays stationary but Touch Controllers are moved front of the HMD; the hands and everything that is locked to those tracking devices like a virtual guns, are double drawn with the lag. If the hands or weapons stay stationary, no problems. It is all locked to the tracking, like there is a second Oculus tracking running and it is delayed. And the DeBug tool showed that any given time when there is HMD or Touch Controller movement, HMD lag is 32ms.
    It does sound like you might need to reinstall things, before that painful adventure begins, here are some more questions:
    -What OS are you running; Windows 10/8/7?
    ----When's the last time you've done a clean install of your OS? Clean as in complete wipe of the disk then install. 
    -What make/model PSU do you have? Same with motherboard?
    -How are your temps and voltage on the CPU looking? 5.2 Ghz is pretty impressive on an 8700k (I could only dream that my next intel CPU can make it to 5.0 Ghz; 5.2 Ghz would have me bragging to all my friends, haha). Checking GPU temps as well is always a good thing, just to cover all the bases.
    All those are totally fine, just trust me. I have been on the industry for very long time. And one of the basic core facts are, YOU NEVER REINSTALL YOUR SOFTWARE SYSTEM to solve a problem. As you never learn about it, you never fix it. In my life I have done maybe a five digit amoung of software system installations, and only way to really fix things is to fix them, not to reinstall and hope that it is the fix because you don't really fix anything. The few things I am going to do, is to just plug all to a new PC to test them out. But again that doesn't fix my problem but only gives some idea is the hardware broken. I have a few new SSD laying around unused for a six month now but maybe I just do a fresh Windows install there to check the hardware as well. But again, none of that fix the problem. You don't know what breaks things and what causes it.

    ----SideNote1: If you're looking for good monitoring software, I'd suggest hwmonitor as its pretty lightweight and covers almost all your bases (downside is that I believe it is not hardware-level monitoring, so temps/voltages may be a couple points off of the true values).
    ----SideNote2: I'd try taking your CPU back to stock and seeing what happens if you haven't already.
    I only run the 5.2Ghz when DCS World runs. As I said, it is the most demanding game you can ever have at anything. Bottlenecks all that you can because it is only running two process, one for audio and one for everything else. So no multithread design as it doesn't help at all in such complex simulation with time critical modeling. And that is true, as the fastest CPU one could get is one core, lots of cache and extremely fast bus to RAM. Such would beat any multi-core performance out there.
    Same goes for your RAM if you have it overclocked or on an XMP profile (like @Bodphast said).
    -When you tested your different GPU's did you uninstall the AMD drivers when switching to a nVidia card (and vice-versa) with DDU, and do clean installs of the drivers (as in not letting the Windows OS install their copy of the nVidia drivers)?
    -Are your motherboard BIOS and Chipset drivers up-to-date?

     

    All the basics are covered with the drivers, temps One of the solution that I haven't checked or searched even, is how to get the Oculus 1.x software in... As the problems started only few updates after 2.0 came out. It is not that it is not working by hardware, as it is, it is software based to somewhat linked to hardware (sensors) (and yes, sensors are cleaned, repositioned, cables checked etc), individual checking etc).

    There is just something seriously broken when the Oculus initial setup is having all the same problems than the heaviest 3D application there are.

    It is not about performance, but what in the latest drivers and oculus software is causing trouble. 
  • GATOxVoSGATOxVoS Posts: 440
    Trinity
    edited February 2019
    I don't know what else to say then. The Oculus Rift works perfectly fine on my machine. All the Home 2.0 issues have been fixed for me. Tracking is really good---surprisingly good despite my unusual setup. 

    The re-installation of the OS and software was more of a suggestion in case you weren't adept at finding and fixing all the files and changes the Oculus software makes to your system. (I suppose I should've asked your experience with PC's before suggesting all those other things; I never meant any disrespect. In answering support questions on these forums people with actual background knowledge of computers or even just the parts in their own system is few and far in-between).

    I guess the only thing I would say about re-installation is that based on past experience with Oculus software sometimes the related services and processes (e.g. OVRserver) aren't updated correctly or aren't removed correctly upon update, and what ends up happening is your newly updated client software tries and fails to communicate with the old server. In my case, an older version of the OVRserver was preventing the use of the newer version , but we didn't realize it because the installation of the newest client did not give errors. The only way this got fixed in my situation was an uninstall of the Oculus software (the new client), as well as a cleaning of the files and registry entries related to the previous client and services. 

    I'd still argue for a clean OS install every now and then. All my files are safely backed-up, and I prefer waiting 5-10 mins for a fresh Win10 install instead of me having to look for all the unnecessary bloat that I accumulate throughout the year. I agree though that fixing it yourself is the best solution for exactly the reason you specified: educating yourself. I suppose I'm just lazy in this respect, especially if I know that the Oculus dev team can make mistakes that I can't fix on my end. Though, if I wasn't talking about a personal computer I wouldn't be so quick to recommend the clean install of an OS.

    Hopefully they update the software soon to fix a lot of the issues with 1.34 (e.g. Forcing the power state of your GPU). Sadly, I don't think you can install an older version of the Oculus Home application (I think that's what you were saying when talking about the upgrade to 2.0). As you know, version control from our overlords is just shy of a dictatorship.
     
    I'd look forward to an update after you try the ssd with the clean Windows install if you'd still want to post about your issue, as I do wish to understand what's going on. 

    And (no disrespect) but if you are running anything other than Win10, that could be the issue. (I say this because I know a lot of people who really don't want to upgrade, and I understand exactly what they mean, and these people are usually what I'd call the more experienced bunch).

    Good luck friend, and I hope you can get back to playing in VR soon.





    PC Specs:
    Intel i7-6700k @ 4.5 Ghz
    Gigabyte Z170X-Gaming 3 Motherboard
    RTX 2080 Ti - MSI VENTUS
    16 GB CAS-10 RAM @ 2400 MHz
    Startech 4-port/4-USB controller add-on card
    850W Corsair HX850 PSU
    4-Sensor, Roomscale Setup
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