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Pc vr coming to an end.Heres why rift 2 development slowed down and we have only rift s .

inovatorinovator Posts: 2,119 Valuable Player
edited March 15 in General
Oculus is greatly slowing down pc vr headset development  and yes will develop rift 2 but over a longer period of time than originally planned. Why? Because of 5 g. That will take time since interstructure and everyone adopting it takes time.
 But make no mistake it's coming and will change everything.  Pc vr where you need bigger and better graphics cards etc.will come to an end.  5g will support  stand alone headsets with the power made of dreams. 5g articles are all over Internet. Check it out and you may agree with me.
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Comments

  • A.ForceA.Force Posts: 77
    Hiro Protagonist
    5G is a cellular network infrastructure. Why would that change anything regarding VR?
    Unless you are running a VR device using your phone i don't see any way this is relevant (Even if you did, the only difference would be you can download your apps faster or something).
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,658 Valuable Player
    ..........ok

    WAAAGH!
  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 976
    3Jane
    PCVR, 5G?  Different platforms, while not mutually exclusive, I doubt that development for PC tethered HMD's will be reliant on an alternative data source, particularly when third-worlld countries (like the UK when it comes to 4G - yet alone 5G) adoption is likely to incredibly slow and expensive to 'join in' I'd think would limit the usefulness for quite a long way into the future.
    But the streaming possibilities over such a high bandwidt network has possibilities, for the few :)
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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,119 Valuable Player
    edited March 15
    The point is it would be for stand alone. You need to read the articles before giving opinions and so it could be understood why it's relavant. The quest will have rift like experiences which is amazing considering the low power it has. 5g would also contribute to 2d games on the cloud that wouldn't need powerfull computer and faster and faster game consoles. Pc vr will be less necessary. Pc vr is still relevant now but won't be in the future is why oculus has slowed things a bit.
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,586 Volunteer Moderator
    PC has withstood the playstation xbox revolution and is a niche, it isn't going anywhere soon. PC vr is a niche and will remain for a longtime, 5g will not change that not matter how many articles one reads.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,885 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    Oculus is greatly slowing down pc vr headset development  and yes will develop rift 2 but over a longer period of time than originally planned. Why? Because of 5 g. That will take time since interstructure and everyone adopting it takes time.
     But make no mistake it's coming and will change everything.  Pc vr where you need bigger and better graphics cards etc.will come to an end.  5g will support  stand alone headsets with the power made of dreams. 5g articles are all over Internet. Check it out and you may agree with me.
    Was there an announcement or are these assumptions?
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,119 Valuable Player
    These are assumptions. Oculus scaled way back on the rift 2. If you study the history and a major vr guy left recently because he was pissed  in regards to the scale back  you can come up with an opinion.
  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,885 Valuable Player
    edited March 15
    inovator said:
    The point is it would be for stand alone. You need to read the articles before giving opinions and so it could be understood why it's relavant. The quest will have rift like experiences which is amazing considering the low power it has. 5g would also contribute to 2d games on the cloud that wouldn't need powerfull computer and faster and faster game consoles. Pc vr will be less necessary. Pc vr is still relevant now but won't be in the future is why oculus has slowed things a bit.
    I think 5g is going to have more of an effect on the Cable industry, now finally, they won't have a monopoly (Due to the insane cost of infrastructure development).  There's going to be competition with a service that can provide comparable and faster speeds OTA so it will be available to more people.  This will FORCE the cable providers to offer competitive pricing so hopefully 5g will decrease the cost of internet subscriptions amongst their competitors.   I don't think this will effect PCVR at all.  Instead the ripoff costs of GPUs and Ram mean that the cost to entry on PCVR is cost prohibitive and for this reason, PCVR  will forever be the secondary VR platform because everyone follows the money and the money is in mobile since the cost to entry is so low and the convenience is high.  But 5g killing off PCVR?  Nonsense.

  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,119 Valuable Player
    It will effect pcvr eventually.  The future is standalone. 5 g. Is the answer for standalone. I agree it will take a long time but oculus knows pc vr eventually will be irrelevant. Pc vr will still continue to be upgraded but at half the pace in my opinion.
  • hoppingbunny123hoppingbunny123 Posts: 687
    Trinity
    edited March 15
    we need to tie a 5g internet to the closest spot near your brain or eye balls for the best vr you can imagine!


  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,861 Valuable Player
    I disagree, PCVR imho will endure and continue to progress.
    Good times ahead.
    Don

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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    The point is it would be for stand alone. You need to read the articles before giving opinions and so it could be understood why it's relavant. The quest will have rift like experiences which is amazing considering the low power it has. 5g would also contribute to 2d games on the cloud that wouldn't need powerfull computer and faster and faster game consoles. Pc vr will be less necessary. Pc vr is still relevant now but won't be in the future is why oculus has slowed things a bit.
    I do agree mobile will be more popular than PCVR because of the wireless and 5g but it's marketing speak to say the Quest is a "Rift like" experience. It's a Rift like Experience with low graphical games. PCVR will be around at a minimum as a high end niche for at least another 15 years because of the power difference. What is in most danger of being eliminated is console VR. 
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,119 Valuable Player
    Console vr and pc vr will be history. Playstation vr now is the leader with 4 million in sales by now. They will also have stand alone. You don't understand the Power of 5g. 5g will give Mobil a high end experience.  The masses will never adopt pc vr. You even give high end pc about 15 years. We both agree. I never said how long it will take. I just said 5 g is the reason pc vr slowed down in development. Anyway time will tell who is what will happen and when.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 15
    I do fully understand the power of 5G. It's not new news. I've known about the theoretical speeds of it for years. There's a lot more challenges to overcome than just having 5G data transfer speeds.

    And yes, I do believe the future of VR is mobile as I do most gaming. I've said multiple times before that the best path for Oculus to take toward the path to 1 billion users in VR is Mobile. The nintendo switch has 1/14th the power of a GTX 2080 TI. There will be a market for tethered High End VR for awhile longer especially for wide FOV and other features that Mobile has no chance at anytime soon. 
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,285 Volunteer Moderator
    Maybe I’m missing something but 5g is about the transfer of data and PC VR is about processing power.
    There will always be a place for top level processing power, for work, games and for VR.

    Eventually mobile computing power will be so good that that’s all we’ll realistically need, but that’s a decade or 2 away and it’s not about data transfer.

    I also think 5g’s effects on the mobile and cable markets will be limited whilst data plans remain so expensive.

    The average price for 1GB of mobile data in the UK is £5.03, the average for the US is £9.35

    Every time new licences are issued, mobile companies pay so much, they have to then charge for data to recover the cost and maintain their big profits. It happened with 3g 4g and will happen with 5g and so on. Whilst that happens we’ll be relying on fixed lines for a long time to come.
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player

    Maybe I’m missing something but 5g is about the transfer of data and PC VR is about processing power.
    There will always be a place for top level processing power, for work, games and for VR.

    Eventually mobile computing power will be so good that that’s all we’ll realistically need, but that’s a decade or 2 away and it’s not about data transfer.

    I also think 5g’s effects on the mobile and cable markets will be limited whilst data plans remain so expensive.

    The average price for 1GB of mobile data in the UK is £5.03, the average for the US is £9.35

    Every time new licences are issued, mobile companies pay so much, they have to then charge for data to recover the cost and maintain their big profits. It happened with 3g 4g and will happen with 5g and so on. Whilst that happens we’ll be relying on fixed lines for a long time to come.
    Pretty sure he's referring to the streaming of games like the new Steam Link Anywhere. With 5G the Latency is low enough for it to be viable, ditto with other tech like Fiber Internet that's becoming widely available. Streaming drastically reduces the amount of power the end device needs but has a lot of input lag. I question how viable it will be for something like VR where input lag could likely make you sick.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,285 Volunteer Moderator
    edited March 15
    Ah ok sorry, gettng my wires crossed, maybe 5g will help me with that
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  • falken76falken76 Posts: 2,885 Valuable Player
    inovator said:
    Console vr and pc vr will be history. Playstation vr now is the leader with 4 million in sales by now. They will also have stand alone. You don't understand the Power of 5g. 5g will give Mobil a high end experience.  The masses will never adopt pc vr. You even give high end pc about 15 years. We both agree. I never said how long it will take. I just said 5 g is the reason pc vr slowed down in development. Anyway time will tell who is what will happen and when.

    Site your sources that confirm that 5g is the reason PCVR slowed down in development.
  • CalibosCalibos Posts: 103
    Art3mis
    edited March 15
    He's referring to Rendering the games in the Cloud and streaming them over 5g to your Standalone HMD. The problem is that the Speed of Light isn't fast enough. Unless you have a Game rendering Cloud Server within 100 kilometers of you theres too much latency. Heck people complain about controller input lag with Steam In-home streaming over 1ms WIFI inside your own home.

    5G and FTTH is a game changer for VR Pay Per View sports streaming for example. We'll need that kind of bandwidth to stream uber high res video lightfields where you get to sit courtside/pitchside/ringside in the best seat in the house and really feel like you are there. I'm not taking about crappy 3D 360 Video, I'm talking about a High Res Video version of Googles 'Welcome to Lightfields' (available on Steam) type tech.

    5G for rendered VR games??? Not so much.

    OP doesn't even know the name of 'that dude' who left Oculus recently. LOL.

    (Brendan Iribe....or was it Dunning-Kruger?? ;);)
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,119 Valuable Player
    It was Brendan Iribe co-founder  and Ceo  of oculus who left abruptly since the rift 2 was halted in favor of rift s. That my friends was the development slow down I was taling about. 5 g isn't the only reason. Stand alone is the main reason. Pc vr will be a niche until it dies. Standalone Mass market is the future. Pc vr isn't the  Facebook  game plan. Its 1 billion people in vr. Pc vr is a tick on a dog. It will never be important in comparison to standalone.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,623 Valuable Player
    edited March 15
    First of all, "PCVR" isn't just hardware. It is software too. Oculus hasn't slowed with their PCVR software development one bit. We have amazing titles that have been released that require a PC, and plenty more on the way. There is nothing about 5G that is going to allow a mobile platform to play games like Hellblade VR and Lone Echo on the highest settings. That doesn't even make sense.

    This thread isn't about 5G anyway, this is about pretending that Console-VR is somehow a leader,
    "Playstation vr now is the leader with 4 million in sales by now"

    This must be a joke. If we are going to describe a leader based purely on sales, then Google Cardboard is a leader with over 6 million sales.

    Oculus has products being used in both Consumer and Commercial markets. PlayStationVR is still just for for video games.

    5G is a cellular network which simply doesn't belong anywhere in this conversation. My Oculus GO is "stand alone" and doesn't use a cellular network. It uses WiFi over my home wired connection. Fiber is becoming available which destroys 5G.

    This thread makes really bad assumptions about Oculus while also completely warping everything related to Computing and Networking. This discussion needs a do-over. STAT!
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,776 Valuable Player
    edited March 18
    @inovator - I understand part of what you are saying, but I don't believe the current Rift is disappearing from sale due to 5g. Why wouldn't they just do away with Rift S, if 5 g is the reason why Oculus is slowing sales of the current Rift? Obviously in the future they will want to continue with stand alone headsets because that's why their bringing Oculus Quest out. But a very powerful stand alone headset is a fair way of and 5g is not the reason why the current Rift is disappearing from certain websites. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,623 Valuable Player
    edited March 15
    RedRizla said:
    @inovator - I understand part of what you are saying, but I don't believe the current Rift is disappearing from sale due to 5g. Why wouldn't they just do away with Rift S, if 5 g is the reason why Oculus is slowing sales of the current Rift? Obviously in the future they will want to continue with stand alone headsets because that's why their bringing Oculus Quest out. But a powerful stand alone headset is a while of and is not the reason why the current Rift is disappearing from certain websites. 

    Everyone has home WiFi available now, today. And it's been that way for over a decade. There's nothing that 5G introduces that gives anyone anything new that home Wifi doesn't already achieve. Although 5G does give everyone something bad when we're all sharing the same cellular network.

    The future of Home Entertainment for streaming AR, VR, and 4K is NOT 5G... it is Wifi 6.

    Home Entertainment involves multi-devices, and WiFi 6 is precisely what consumers need to set up home networking. Just as most, if not all, consumers do today when connecting their PC, Console, and Smart Devices. 5G cellular network will be great for the typical mobile "away from home" users, so that you can watch YouTube easier while on a plane lol

    But true network infrastructure and high-end entertainment? Cellular Networks aren't a part of that conversation. Wifi 6, all the way.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,776 Valuable Player
    edited March 18
    inovator said:
    It was Brendan Iribe co-founder  and Ceo  of oculus who left abruptly since the rift 2 was halted in favor of rift s. That my friends was the development slow down I was taling about. 5 g isn't the only reason. Stand alone is the main reason. Pc vr will be a niche until it dies. Standalone Mass market is the future. Pc vr isn't the  Facebook  game plan. Its 1 billion people in vr. Pc vr is a tick on a dog. It will never be important in comparison to standalone.

    Just saw this post so ignore my other post. Nobody knows why he left, but if you are correct that's probably more down to cost then anything else. Oculus don't want to create a headset that few people can afford. A Rift S for PC makes perfect sense with the hardware that is available today.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,623 Valuable Player
    RedRizla said:
    Just saw this post so ignore my other post. Nobody knows why he left, but if you are correct that's probably more down to cost then anything else. Oculus don't want to create a headset that only few people can afford. A Rift S for PC makes perfect sense with the hardware that is available today.

    Agreed. I'm pretty sure he didn't leave Facebook simply because they changed his Internet Connection.
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  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,586 Volunteer Moderator
    Maybe they put him on 56k Zen as punishment to drive him out  o:)
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,658 Valuable Player

    All I get from this topic is that I am gonna be pissed if we are still at 5G mobile speeds 15 years from now when you guys are predicting that PCVR will be dead.


    WAAAGH!
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,623 Valuable Player

    Also keep in mind that cellular networks use terms like "4G" and "5G" for marketing! We have not had true 4G available to the public, nor will 5G be "true 5G."

    I've read so many articles about this over the years, showing the actual measurement of what true 4G entails compared to what consumers get from cellular companies. Think of it this way: It is worse than Pimax upscaling "4K per eye" and calling it 8K simply because it happens on both eyes. That's what 4G is today... low numbers being marketed as something they are not.

    Right now, every major carrier in the US is touting a "4G" network that's either available or being rolled out. Sprint is pushing WiMax. AT&T and Verizon are pushing LTE (Long-Term Evolution). T-Mobile is pushing HSPA+ (High Speed Packet Access Evolved). They're all faster than the "3G" speeds than we're used to, with WiMax and HSPA+ delivering consistent, real-world speeds of anywhere from 3Mbps-12Mbps today. But a rep for the ITU told me flatly, "The fact is that there are no IMT-Advanced—or 4G—systems available or deployed at this stage." Calling their newer, faster networks "4G" is "completely marketing" by the carriers, says Gartner analyst Phil Redman.

    Or to put it another way... if 4G today was "true 4G" then we wouldn't have needed to wait for the announcement of 5G to start talking about how stand-alone devices relying on a cellular network will eliminate consoles and PC's True 4G has networking capacity to achieve this today. When we finally get 5G, the final product will likely be closer to "true 4G."

    Last thing worth mentioning... both a PC and a Console can very easily have a 5G modem installed. So there is literally zero correlation between 5G and the death of PC's and Consoles.
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 15
    So to clarify, The 5G gaming hype that's all over is how mobile will be able to stream PC quality games and be fully portable. It's why steam, Microsoft, Sony and others are all coming out with streaming systems. The gloves are coming off and everyone is about to duke it out to try to be the Netflix of Gaming. But as someone mentioned, you can't beat the speed of light so there is still input lag involved. Streaming VR games that are comparable to what a monster PC can do seems like it's far away to me because of input lag and the server loading that would be involved. That's why I said PC gaming and PCVR will be around at least 15 years. I'm not predicting the death of PC in 15 years but that's my guess with best/worst case scenario of tech implementation.

    I used the term 5g theoretical speed because as Zen posted about 4G, Theoretical is never realized. 5G's theoretical speed is 10 gigabits per second. The reality is most people are only going to get about 300-500 megs for a long while. It will likely be "7G" before we get true 5G.

    At some point though, with the diminishing return of graphics and the increasing power of small form factor/mobile chipsets that the graphical gap between the two platforms will be small enough that the vast majority will choose mobile and that's when PC gaming would officially be dead. Much like there's people still playing Atari's though, there will still be some people with pc's for a long time.

  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,119 Valuable Player
    Zenbane a lot of what you say makes sense. ( you know more about some of the things you talk about than I)  Looking more into it, its 5g for Mobil and cloud streaming having more to do with non Mobil hardware. So I should have said cloud streaming. Here's a copy and past statement :Like Google Project Stream as well as the efforts by PlayStation and Xbox One, cloud-gaming promises a future wherein hardware no longer matters and a set-top box connected to a high-speed Internet connection will be all that gamers need to experience the latest in gaming. I stand by my belief that the co-founder left for the reasons I mentioned. And I strongly believe the slowdown of the hardware also has to do with consumer cost and that pc hardware is not capable of bringing mainstream vr to the masses Oculus will phase out pcvr and standalone will be the last man standing when all is said and done. (Only my opinion) it will be interesting to see what happens over time.
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