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Brace yourselves: Official Rift-S reveal is coming

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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator

    AH I do enjoy backup burner accounts so much :)
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    LZoltowski said: 
    Quest and Rift are meant for different audiences. I would adjust my margins accordingly. 
    I do agree with that but at the same time, they are both in the same realm since Nate alluded to them playing multiplayer together and also that there would be some crossover content purchases. IE I buy it on Quest and it's also on Rift like Xbox Play Anywhere. But it is what it is. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,633 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    Mradr said:
    Your last part says they will keep going on a CV2 - but they are delaying that now because of Rift S most likely. We wont see a CV2 until 2020 or 2021. If you don't pick up a Rift S now - that is basically waiting 5 years for the next update. That is BS. Even then - if it sells well - they won't be working on a CV2 - no - they will be working on smaller upgrades base on Rift S - meaning whatever they do now - will refect what CV2 will have in the future. You can say good by to IDP adjustment and support for current tracking on the CV1. No more built in headphones and single display using LCD instead of OLED. If price and mass market are your goals - advance stuff like that comes MUCH MUCH slower. Do you really think eye tracking will fit into their pretty 400$ next time around?


    Hmm, I think Mradr from  yesterday has some good advice for Mradr of today:

    Sweet cheeks - just be nice - let it go, sometimes not commenting is better than 2-3 post of arguing over nothing!
    https://forums.oculusvr.com/community/discussion/comment/666315/#Comment_666315

    Let's play the Quiet Game for a tiny bit, sugar
    :p
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,633 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    inovator said:
    Mradr that's what I said in a much earlier rant. Oculus has to do what's bests for the masses hence very slow high end development. Someday standalone will completely take over.  If the masses don't get into it the vr future will...........etc.

    We already have a similar rumor leak today about the Rift CV2. So there's no reason to push  the panic button. People need to calm down and simply take advantage of their options as Consumers.
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,550 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    inovator said:
    Mradr that's what I said in a much earlier rant. Oculus has to do what's bests for the masses hence very slow high end development. Someday standalone will completely take over.  If the masses don't get into it the vr future will...........etc.
    And my point is that CV lines ARE NOT your mass market lines - that is your mid tier hardware. The Quest IS for the mass market customers. This idea that a low price offering for the PC is just silly. Granted I am not saying doing what Vive Pro did is great either. No, but there is a middle market that people can afford and that is around the 500-600$ range and that is what PCVR should aim for while over time bring down the cost. NOT start at whatever the lowest cost is right now and give only a sub par experience in hardware. That just kicking everyone from generation one in the face. 

    I am going to take some time and let everything settle and lisen to more reviews - but I just want to make it clear that so far I just haven't heard many good things about Rift S - Quest is amazing for the price - I just wish Rift S was also amazing for its price.
  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    pyroth309 said:
    LZoltowski said: 
    Quest and Rift are meant for different audiences. I would adjust my margins accordingly. 
    I do agree with that but at the same time, they are both in the same realm since Nate alluded to them playing multiplayer together and also that there would be some crossover content purchases. IE I buy it on Quest and it's also on Rift like Xbox Play Anywhere. But it is what it is. 
    Well, if it was not the case, the enthusiasts would have additional pitchforks :) Really cant please everybody.
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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,633 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    And my point is that CV lines ARE NOT your mass market lines - that is your mid tier hardware. The Quest IS for the mass market customers.

    It's not your place to decide what works for mass market lines. The lower cost of entry that the Rift-S has over the Rift CV1 allows the "mass market" to enter PCVR to play higher end titles. It's a simple concept, even if it is not the best thing existing Rift CV1 owners were hoping for.

    That just kicking everyone from generation one in the face. 

    Too much exaggeration and hyperbole. Slow down, turbo.

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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,121 Valuable Player
    Mradr even on pc you will have a higher entry at a lower price. 600 dollars would make me think twice and I love vr.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,550 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    Zenbane said:
    Mradr said:
    And my point is that CV lines ARE NOT your mass market lines - that is your mid tier hardware. The Quest IS for the mass market customers.

    It's not your place to decide what works for mass market lines. The lower cost of entry that the Rift-S has over the Rift CV1 allows the "mass market" to enter PCVR to play higher end titles. It's a simple concept, even if it is not the best thing existing Rift CV1 owners were hoping for.

    That just kicking everyone from generation one in the face. 

    Too much exaggeration and hyperbole. Slow down, turbo.

    Yes I know, I need to take some time off here I feel.

    But that is what the tier idea system works out to be. The idea is that Your First level is going to be your lowest cost while providing entry into the community. Your next tier is design to bring in the mass market providing as many things as the customer will need to get by with. The top tier wont include everything, but should provide the best in hardware and going that extra mile to be the best all around (even from past products). In this case - it seems like they just went backwards quite a bit. I feel like this is a fair idea on what a tier system should be about.
  • ParadoxAnomalyParadoxAnomaly Posts: 90
    Hiro Protagonist

  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,780 Valuable Player

    Ques is a fever dream of mine, 6dof  VR with Touch controllers anywhere you are ... even on the toilet....



    Just be careful when you wipe your arse.
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,278
    Wintermute
    edited March 20
    Maybe everyone who is seeing today’s announcement as a negative is looking at this all wrong. And the fact that so many people are disappointed basically points at a lack of clear communication from Oculus with regards to their future plans. Maybe this is just how Oculus works but I hope they look at the community’s reaction today and perhaps in future they will become a more transparent company with regards to future releases and timelines. 

    I'll try explain further what I mean, I think if Oculus had said to us six months ago “by the way, just so you’re aware of our future plans for Rift CV2. We’re making you an amazing high end HMD that will be released April 2020 with increased FOV and high resolution but in the meantime we’re going to update the current Rift CV1 for new users in 2019.”

    If Oculus had done this I think we as consumers and especially CV1 owners would have taken today's announcement completely different. And I personally would have been extremely satisfied as I would have been made aware of their plans and would have known what to expect from Rift S at today’s GDC press conference.

    Also I think because the first gen Rift was released with faults that we have all learnt to live with, such as poor optics and god rays for example, maybe as consumers in this day an age with such amazing technology as Virtual Reality we were all worried for the future of VR. I think these worries will once and for all be put to bed the day our Rift CV2 arrives at our homes and we're playing Stormland for the first time. Then we can sit back, and relax and not worry anymore. At that point I don't think people will worry for CV3, CV4 or CV5 the same way they worried for CV2. 

    So after reading all your comments and also being negative earlier in this thread, this is my final conclusion. Part of me thinks I should stick with my original plan to buy Quest, but the fact that Rift S has better optics and everyone who has tried it says the visuals look great makes me think I would like it. And I'm not even worried about the tracking as I believe the inside/out tracking will turn out to be great also.

    So in the end the only negative for me is not having built-in headphones, but I guess if I do end up buying Rift S I will just have to get used to using my own headphones for now.

    Looking forward tro the future I really hope that when Rift CV2 does finally get released next year that it does actually come with built-in headphones as the headphones supplied with Rift CV1 were perfection for me.

    Also I'm looking forward to trying Touch controllers 2.0 with either Quest or Rift S as well as I always thought the sensor rings that wrap around your hands always got in the way of my big hands so the fact that they have moved those now makes more sense to me.
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,633 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    Yes I know, I need to take some time off here I feel.

    But that is what the tier idea system works out to be. The idea is that Your First level is going to be your lowest cost while providing entry into the community. Your next tier is design to bring in the mass market providing as many things as the customer will need to get by with. The top tier wont include everything, but should provide the best in hardware and going that extra mile to be the best all around (even from past products). In this case - it seems like they just went backwards quite a bit.

    Yeah bro, go drink some alcohol. Maybe watch some porn. Get caught up on a fun Film Series.

    I know that the Rift-S is not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. And regarding a "tier idea system," we have to keep in mind that this applies to both Hardware and Software. But earlier in this thread you and I argued extensively about Hardware vs Software, so you do seem a bit closed off to the notion that the Rift-S allows mass consumers to enjoy PCVR Software Titles. So far it seems that you don't associate PCVR Software Titles with Mass Market PCVR Hardware.

    Until you can reconcile this issue, your viewpoint will be one of dismay.
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  • LZoltowskiLZoltowski Posts: 6,774 Volunteer Moderator
    pyroth309 said:
    Zenbane said:
    Mradr said:
    Yes I know, I need to take some time off here I feel.

    But that is what the tier idea system works out to be. The idea is that Your First level is going to be your lowest cost while providing entry into the community. Your next tier is design to bring in the mass market providing as many things as the customer will need to get by with. The top tier wont include everything, but should provide the best in hardware and going that extra mile to be the best all around (even from past products). In this case - it seems like they just went backwards quite a bit.

    Yeah bro, go drink some alcohol. Maybe watch some porn. Get caught up on a fun Film Series.

    Why does he have to leave to do those things? I'm doing 2/3 right now!
    I just saw that, @Zenbane ... let's keep it um neutral, please. :)
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,550 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    IF anything - I love to talk about the software that is coming out for the Quest xD Rift S - I just need to stay away from x..x;

    Zenbane said:
    I know that the Rift-S is not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. And regarding a "tier idea system," we have to keep in mind that this applies to both Hardware and Software. But earlier in this thread you and I argued extensively about Hardware vs Software, so you do seem a bit closed off to the notion that the Rift-S allows mass consumers to enjoy PCVR Software Titles. So far it seems that you don't associate PCVR Software Titles with Mass Market PCVR Hardware.
    I don't follow what you mean here - I just want a good VR future for the headsets. I know software limitations and price points. I also understand it from Oculus view point and it scares the hell out of me seeing a direction like the Rift S took. The lack of communication and a road map just doesn't help when they surprise stuff like this out of no where. Everyone always likes to bring them up and say I am aiming at them - but I clearly never have and at the end of the day I just want to see happy people playing VR with me when I do play. I want the future and I want to grow in away that works out for everyone. Seeing stuff go backwards just doesn't sit right with me. 
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    Zenbane said:
    Mradr said:
    Yes I know, I need to take some time off here I feel.

    But that is what the tier idea system works out to be. The idea is that Your First level is going to be your lowest cost while providing entry into the community. Your next tier is design to bring in the mass market providing as many things as the customer will need to get by with. The top tier wont include everything, but should provide the best in hardware and going that extra mile to be the best all around (even from past products). In this case - it seems like they just went backwards quite a bit.

    Yeah bro, go drink some alcohol. Maybe watch some porn. Get caught up on a fun Film Series.

    Why does he have to leave to do those things? I'm doing 2/3 right now!
    I just saw that, @Zenbane ... let's keep it um neutral, please. :)
    Hey I didn't say which 2 I was doing. I left it up to your interpretation. 
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,633 Valuable Player
    lol - well I do enjoy my debates with Mradr so he shouldn't be leaving the damn forum (I hope I didn't give that impression). I just know when I start going Full Tard and I put myself in a quick time out.

    I feel like most of us are here today (myself included) with blood-shot eyes and lack of sleep due to 3-straight days of waiting for what turned out to be lackluster news for existing Rift CV1 owners. Emotions and passions will run high. In another day or two we'll be back to business as usual.

    In fact, I'm heading back in to VR right now. Time for some Shadow Legend!
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    Mradr said:
    IF anything - I love to talk about the software that is coming out for the Quest xD Rift S - I just need to stay away from x..x;
    Yea I'm in on a Quest, I was in for it before Rift-S was even known though. It seems like a great product albeit a little underpowered but kind of to be expected considering the cost. 
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,121 Valuable Player
    I really enjoy this community. Keep up the great debates and opinions going.
  • ShocksVRShocksVR Posts: 470
    Trinity
    Maybe everyone who is seeing today’s announcement as a negative is looking at this all wrong. And the fact that so many people are disappointed basically points at a lack of clear communication from Oculus with regards to their future plans. Maybe this is just how Oculus works but I hope they look at the community’s reaction today and perhaps in future they will become a more transparent company with regards to future releases and timelines. 

    I'll try explain further what I mean, I think if Oculus had said to us six months ago “by the way, just so you’re aware of our future plans for Rift CV2. We’re making you an amazing high end HMD that will be released April 2020 with increased FOV and high resolution but in the meantime we’re going to update the current Rift CV1 for new users in 2019.”

    If Oculus had done this I think we as consumers and especially CV1 owners would have taken today's announcement completely different. And I personally would have been extremely satisfied as I would have been made aware of their plans and would have known what to expect from Rift S at today’s GDC press conference.

    Also I think because the first gen Rift was released with faults that we have all learnt to live with, such as poor optics and god rays for example, maybe as consumers in this day an age with such amazing technology as Virtual Reality we were all worried for the future of VR. I think these worries will once and for all be put to bed the day our Rift CV2 arrives at our homes and we're playing Stormland for the first time. Then we can sit back, and relax and not worry anymore. At that point I don't think people will worry for CV3, CV4 or CV5 the same way they worried for CV2. 

    So after reading all your comments and also being negative earlier in this thread, this is my final conclusion. Part of me thinks I should stick with my original plan to buy Quest, but the fact that Rift S has better optics and everyone who has tried it says the visuals look great makes me think I would like it. And I'm not even worried about the tracking as I believe the inside/out tracking will turn out to be great also.

    So in the end the only negative for me is not having built-in headphones, but I guess if I do end up buying Rift S I will just have to get used to using my own headphones for now.

    Looking forward tro the future I really hope that when Rift CV2 does finally get released next year that it does actually come with built-in headphones as the headphones supplied with Rift CV1 were perfection for me.

    Also I'm looking forward to trying Touch controllers 2.0 with either Quest or Rift S as well as I always thought the sensor rings that wrap around your hands always got in the way of my big hands so the fact that they have moved those now makes more sense to me.
    Yup !

    In addition, I think if Oculus released this last year, like Summer 2018 or at OC5, then Rift-S would have been much better received.
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  • PhoenixSpyderPhoenixSpyder Posts: 235
    Nexus 6
    While I'm also disappointed with some of the specs of the Rift-s, I am also intrigued by the similar possibilities of being able to push the Rift-s to the limit similar to the Rift. Those who have systems that can and already do so, should definitely see an increase visually in all aspects. This is one of the reason's why I keep using my Rift.

    The one thing that may dampen my decision to go with a Rift-s though is not being able to use my present cameras and essentially my present touch controllers instead of the new ones. I'm weary of a slight downgrade (controller wise) between the two versions. Not sure if I like the over the hand controller yet...will need to try it first.

    Reverb is on the radar though...but it will need to be spectacular, with must have reviews!!!
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    "Presently developing a VR project (outside of my profession) due to the lack of availability of what I would like to experience" Details in a year or two...
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,160 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    inovator said:
    Mradr that's what I said in a much earlier rant. Oculus has to do what's bests for the masses hence very slow high end development. Someday standalone will completely take over.  If the masses don't get into it the vr future will...........etc.
    And my point is that CV lines ARE NOT your mass market lines - that is your mid tier hardware. The Quest IS for the mass market customers. This idea that a low price offering for the PC is just silly. Granted I am not saying doing what Vive Pro did is great either. No, but there is a middle market that people can afford and that is around the 500-600$ range and that is what PCVR should aim for while over time bring down the cost. NOT start at whatever the lowest cost is right now and give only a sub par experience in hardware. That just kicking everyone from generation one in the face. 

    I am going to take some time and let everything settle and lisen to more reviews - but I just want to make it clear that so far I just haven't heard many good things about Rift S - Quest is amazing for the price - I just wish Rift S was also amazing for its price.

    We'll see Oculus doing the same thing with the CV2 in 2022. They've released the expensive Rift in 2016, a cheaper version with improvements in 2019 and then repeat the same thing with the CV2 by releasing the expensive version in 2022 and a cheaper version with improvements in 2026. The CV2 is probably going to end up having 140 degrees FOV, 4K displays, foveated rendering and POSSIBLY varifocals. The CV2-S may end up with either a resolution bump or a bump in FOV or maybe new and improved lenses and/or optics.

    Everything is pointing to a three year lifespan for their PC VR headsets and a 2 year lifespan (assuming that HTC are still in business) for the Vive. They released the Vive in 2016, the Vive Pro in 2018 and will release the Vive 2 in 2020 and Vive 2 Pro in 2022.

    If anything HTC have made the wrong decision by doing this because if the Vive 2 next year has 4K or 2.5K displays and foveated rendering there's no guarantee that the features will be ready for prime time in 2020. Then they'll end up releasing an updated Vive 2 Pro in 2022 which will get pissed all over by the CV2. Oculus are having a three year lifespan for their headsets because that's a decent enough gap for the technology to be READY rather than releasing a rushed product with issues which is bound to be more expensive than its competitors. Oculus are doing the right thing. I'd rather have a 4K headset with 140 degrees FOV, foveated rendering and a small form factor in 2022 than having a CV2 with more disappointing specs next year.
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  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,780 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    @ShocksOculus - Personally, I think Rift S came about because people were pished off when they heard nothing about PC -VR at the last event. All that was talked about was Oculus Quest and there was no shortage of disappoint from the PC crowed. Oculus know Rift 2 is to far away to keep the PC crowd happy, so we basically twisted their arm to produce something to keep us happy while we await Rift 2.

    I am happy to purchase a Rift -S while I await Rift 2 and I'm sure people new to VR will be more then happy to purchase a Rift -S due to it's ease of setup and price point.
  • edmgedmg Posts: 1,154
    Wintermute
    Looks like the first Oculus headset since CV1 that I won't be buying .I"ll be ordering the Quest as soon as it's available, but there's nothing about this which would give me any incentive to switch.

    That said, I can see why Oculus are doing it. The inside-out tracking will expand the market, and the Go screens are good enough; and, to be honest, I quite like the audio setup on the Go not requiring headphones.

    But it basically looks like a rebadged WMR headset with more cameras, and is going to cost more than the Rift. So I'm not sure quite what market it's aimed at. If it let them cut the price, it would clearly be a win, but at a higher price it just seems odd.

    Maybe it's much cheaper to build than the Rift, and they want to stop subsidizing hardware.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,780 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    @edmg - The aim is to make it easier for people to setup PC -VR, it's basically plug and play without having to arse around with sensors and setting up your space etc. Also to save having those usb sensor problems that people constantly complained about in the forums.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edmg said:
    Looks like the first Oculus headset since CV1 that I won't be buying .I"ll be ordering the Quest as soon as it's available, but there's nothing about this which would give me any incentive to switch.

    That said, I can see why Oculus are doing it. The inside-out tracking will expand the market, and the Go screens are good enough; and, to be honest, I quite like the audio setup on the Go not requiring headphones.

    But it basically looks like a rebadged WMR headset with more cameras, and is going to cost more than the Rift. So I'm not sure quite what market it's aimed at. If it let them cut the price, it would clearly be a win, but at a higher price it just seems odd.

    Maybe it's much cheaper to build than the Rift, and they want to stop subsidizing hardware.
    I think the last statement is correct. Everything about it screams cost savings/cheaper to produce than the CV1 and the price went UP 50 bucks.

    As someone mentioned in this thread, it's obvious to me that Oculus wants you to buy the Quest. Perhaps they are in fact tired of battling Steam. The Quest does give them 100% of the software sales for now. 


  • SharpfishSharpfish Posts: 1,303
    Neo
    Does the 'S' stand for shit?
    EX DK2, EX VIVE, EX PSVR, Currently RIFT CV1 | VR developer
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 20
    Sebastian/MRTV posted a review on Reddit.

    Dear community,
    I was lucky enough to get one hour with the Rift S here at GDC 19. It was supposed to be a 30 minute appointment but in the end they gave me 2 slots.
    I played Stormland and Asgar's Wrath on the Rift S. Both amazing games but I know you are more interested into the hardware, so let's go.
    Display
    Yes, it indeed is the Oculus Go display, it was directly apparent when I put it on. That's 1280 * 1440p per eye and without a doubt a nice step up from the Rift display. Also for the pixel arrangement, it's RGB Stripe, so 3 subpixels per pixel instead of 2 like the Rift. Therefore less SDE! Also the exact same lenses as the Go and Quest. They are great and you won't see god rays, like you did on the Rift!
    Unfortunately it is an LCD display so the blacks are not really black. It was very apparent when playing the games. The dark scenes and menus were more grayish overall. If your own a Go, you know exactly what I am talking about. People who love Elite Dangerous or Horror games will NOT enjoy the dark scenes anymore.
    Moreover, since it is only one display now, there is no IPD adjustment which will be a problem for those who have very large or very small IPDs. Check if you enjoy playing on the Go. If that works for you, Rift S will work too. If not, better stay clear.
    In terms of FOV, it seemed to be similar to Oculus Go as well. So slightly bigger than Rift, probably on par with Vive now.
    In my talks with the Oculus personnel, I was told that the render resolution is same like on Rift, but that because the display and lenses are better, it does look better overall. I second that (for scenes that are not dark).
    The 80hz display frequency did not really have any impact on my gameplay, I couldn't find any difference.
    Comfort
    Comfort wise this is a step up from the Rift. I could wear the headset without any problems, even with my glasses that I wore during my time with the Rift S. The Halo style headstrap did remind me of PSVR and Lenovo Explorer which is a good thing.
    The facepadding is made of foam and I see it not lasting really long. It does feel comfortable but when you sweat and then share the device with a friend... Hmmm.. Not hygenic. VR Cover to the rescue? You can replace the whole facepadding just like on the Go.
    Audio
    Same like Go and Quest. I liked it. You don't need to put on headpgones anymore, you will just directly hear the sound. And it does sound crisp. If you want, just plug in your own headphones.
    Tracking
    Just perfect. Really good, I could not make out any differences as compared to Constellation or even Lighthouse. Fantastic, both for controllers and headset.
    Conclusion
    The Rift S is not made for the VR enthusiasts. It is not made for Rift owners who want the next big thing. It is made to bring in new people to the Rift ecosystem. It is easier to use and the display looks great, just like the Oculus Go. People new to the Rift will love it. And Rift owners who want to get rid of gid rays and most of SDE as well.
    People that are used to Rift and like to play dark games like Horror games or space sims like Elite Dangerous will not enjoy the blacks. They are simply not as good as OLED displays. And there are other headsets on the market like the Odyssey Plus that have Oled Displays with less SDE as well.
    Pricing is too high in my opinion. For 299 it would have been amazing. But 399...hmmm. I just hope that the price is going to go down soon.
    You can watch my first initial reactions and full video review here: https://youtu.be/GNAKZuxyBQM
    Hope you enjoyed this, bye, Sebastian

    So yea, I agree with him at 299 it would make a lot more sense. For me as someone who already has the O+, there's not enough meat on the bone so to speak for me. 

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