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Brace yourselves: Official Rift-S reveal is coming

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  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,056 Volunteer Moderator
    RuneSR2 said:
    Zenbane said:
    @RuneSR2 - yeah that pretty much confirms that Rift-S is a "refresh" and not an "upgrade."
    Exactly - and why CV1 owners have been more or less told by Oculus to wait - it kinda makes good sense now. Actually I don't mind waiting some more - also for cheaper and faster GPUs to arrive. And I'm starting to feel less depressed about still using the old model  ;)
    I would feel better if we (CV1 owners) had been told something... if there is any truth to the rumour from yesterday about a real CV2 announcement next year, then I’m happy to wait for that and stick with my CV1. I’m sure the Rift S is still a fine device for someone getting into PCVR, but the trade-offs mean that it’s not really an upgrade. For me, the Quest screens with IPD adjustment would have made all the difference.  
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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 21

    vannagirl said:
    Ohh dear!!

    i enjoy sitting in elite by a sun just listening to music, is about my skill level

    blacks are kinda important really. I remember the grey Nvidia bug a while ago it looked terrible, that said the godrays can also be a mood killer, similar to Snowdogs laundry...

    i still keep my interest but it is suddenly diving toward this HP hmd now, darn Oculus please just tie up the loose ends not spread them over hmds



    Well the problem with the HP in elite is it has a LCD panel also. I want to see what it looks like in Elite through the lens. One thing is for sure, with that resolution, the text will be crisp.

    Here's a good illustration of the Pimax LCD vs Vive Pro and Odyssey+. Hope the HP isn't this washed out. Go to 7:09 if time link doesn't work. You may have to blow the video up to full screen to see it. If you have a bad monitor you may not see it lol. On my OLED tv it looks bad and the other two have dark blacks.


    *edit* meant to type LCD...

  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,056 Volunteer Moderator
    kojack said:
    Interesting tweets from Tom Forsyth (former Oculus developer):

    I've not seen it reported anywhere, but I believe the Rift S has eye-relief adjustment. This doesn't sound like a big deal, but it is. The closer you can get your eyeball to the lens, the wider your FOV and the better the image quality.
    So while there's no hardware IPD, you can move the lenses closer or further from your eyes. If true, that's great.


    This is very interesting to me. I think I’ll have to play with my Go a bit—see how it looks if I remove the facial interface to get it closer to my eyes. 

    I’ve chatted with Tom in the past about how great the CV1’s IPD adjustment was versus the DK2, and he sympathized about the issues for high-IPD users. I was wondering what his opinion would be about the loss of this feature on the Rift S. 
    i7 5820K @ 4.25 GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32 GB | Corsair HX 750W
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  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,550 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    Also I found this interesting - 

    Rift: 1080x 1200 pixel per eye = 1440K
    Rift S and Go: 1280 x 1440 pixel per eye = 1843K
    Samsung GearVR 1280 x 1440 pixel per eye = 1843K
    Lenovo Explorer: 1440 x 1440 pixel per eye = 2073K
    Oculus Quest: 1440 x 1600 pixel per eye = 2304K
    Samsung Odyssey: 1440 x 1600 pixel per eye = 2304K
    HTC Vive Pro: 1440 x 1600 pixel per eye = 2304K
    Pimax 5k+: 2560 x 1440 pixel per eye = 3686K
    HP Reverb: 2160 x 2160 pixel per eye = 4665K
    Pimax 8k: 3840 x 2160 pixel per eye = 8294K


    The reason why the Rift S and the CV1 can render the same image while the Rift S has more pixels is because it is using full RGB. There are just more color dots to reproduce the image, but the way a group of these color are lay out makes a pixel and a big difference. Full RGB though usually cost more than none RGB lays and the reasons why we see different color dot lays over the years (from Pimax 8k vs 5k for example). 

    This isn't a limitation of OLED or LCD - it's just what the end customer wants to buy in many cases so a choice on Oculus to go LCD over OLED was totally up to Oculus in what panels to use.
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 5,056 Volunteer Moderator
    edited March 21
    Also, the software doesn’t use a 2160x1200 render target on the CV1, it renders a larger image that gets distorted and down-sampled. It just means a little less down-sampling on the Rift S. 
    i7 5820K @ 4.25 GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32 GB | Corsair HX 750W
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  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,116 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    If Rift-S and Rift use exactly the same res for rendering then Oculus needs to upscale 2160x1200 to 2560x1440 - I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's happening.
    Which is what pimax does with the 8k.. which was a great success! /S
    It would imo be full retard to piss away those extra panel pixel on upscaling, instead of letting people with decent PC's actually RENDER them.
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,278
    Wintermute
    Zenbane said:
    Oculus really does have a bit of a stranglehold on the VR market right now. Since the Rift-S feels like a downgrade, I think enthusiasts around the world are feeling a bit depressed. A big part of that is because there just aren't any viable options right now in terms of competition; at least not without making a noteworthy sacrifice.

    For example,
    • I can't choose the Vive Pro because I refuse to give up Touch Controllers for Wands.
    • I can't choose any of the WMR headsets because they have worse tracking issues that Rift-S and Quest.
    • I can't choose Pimax because I have a functional brain.
    Everyone was hoping that the new Rift would showcase the complete VR package we all know and love, but adding a more competitive HMD. Having to wait another is gonna suck. But meh... first world problems.



    Yeah I totally agree, I think we were all just upset, depressed and disappointed yesterday but I am being a lot more positive today and I have decided I am going to buy both the Quest and Rift S as soon as they're released. I believe I will be happy playing Beat Saber on Quest and I will be happy playing Stormland on Rift S with the new upgraded lenses.

    The lenses alone make it worth it for me. Also I am happy to support Oculus who gave me a brilliant Rift and really good media center with the GO.

    So there we have it, I'm going to buy both, and I'm actually excited now :) 

    So what does Spring mean? Because google told me Spring means 20th march? When will we actually have a release date both the Quest and Rift S?
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,121 Valuable Player
    OK now its understandable according to above video. Oculus did what they did because of pixel situation. They felt there would be more people wanting less screen door effect even with some gaming sacrifices because of blacks not being that good. I'm not happy about it but I understand that it may be the right way to go. 
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,121 Valuable Player
    I'll buy both. for me the biggest plus is no outside sensor setup. Eeeeehaaaa!
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,278
    Wintermute
    pyroth309 said:
    kojack said:
    Interesting tweets from Tom Forsyth (former Oculus developer):

    I've not seen it reported anywhere, but I believe the Rift S has eye-relief adjustment. This doesn't sound like a big deal, but it is. The closer you can get your eyeball to the lens, the wider your FOV and the better the image quality.
    So while there's no hardware IPD, you can move the lenses closer or further from your eyes. If true, that's great.



     I wonder if that's why we're hearing mixed reports of some people saying the FoV is smaller than CV1 and some saying it's slightly larger. Would make sense. 

    I'm confused, so can someone explain to me how normal IPD works on the Rift CV1? Does the IPD slider move the screens or the lenses?

    I thought the Rift S doesn't have IPD adjustment and therefore you can't move the lenses? And there's only one screen so nothing to move there?

    Or am i miss understanding and the software adjustment they mentioned moves the lenses?

    Or did he mean move the lenses closer to your eyes or away from your eyes instead of increasing the separation/spacing between each lens?
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,121 Valuable Player
    I understand what your saying. But  I hate the setup so much. Everytime set up small table shelves for sensors move around furniture. Then after midnight put it all away.Omg I'll be happy to sacrifice some tracking for something that for me will be good enough. I really mean it when I say with excitement eeeeehaaaaa!!!
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,116 Valuable Player
    I'm confused, so can someone explain to me how normal IPD works on the Rift CV1? Does the IPD slider move the screens or the lenses?
    Both.
    On the Lenovo it's handled digitally in the rendering.
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,116 Valuable Player
    edited March 21
    Zenbane said:
    I'm definitely buying Quest, but Rift-S won't enter Casa Grayskull unless it supports external sensors. I'd rather wait for a proper CV2, or wait for a competitor to release a proper product.
    Yeah.. somehow the Lenovo has made me realize how good the Quest is, and I think I'll buy one now. :smile:

    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,278
    Wintermute
    Wildt said:
    I'm confused, so can someone explain to me how normal IPD works on the Rift CV1? Does the IPD slider move the screens or the lenses?
    Both.
    On the Lenovo it's handled digitally in the rendering.

    Oh I see, that's cool I didn't know that.

    Btw, I've never heard of Lenovo before, I didn't even know Oculus was making them a partner? It's going to be weird seeing their name on the side of the Rift S. Is Lenovo a good company?
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Rift CV1 & Rift S - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,208 Valuable Player
    edited March 21
    Zenbane said:
    I'm definitely buying Quest, but Rift-S won't enter Casa Grayskull unless it supports external sensors. I'd rather wait for a proper CV2, or wait for a competitor to release a proper product.
    Damn I was waiting for you to buy it and review it :smile:

    Guess I'll have to rely on LZoltowski as being a moderator he has to buy it, it's the law.


    PS @TheRealCyber any thoughts now you are a free man?
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,633 Valuable Player
    If the Rift-S becomes available to demo at the Microsoft store, or it stocks in-store at Best Buy, then I will give it a shot just for the sake of writing a review. But for now, I have no active plans to make it part of my Oculus collection.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
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  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,811 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    Yeah, no outside sensors translates to increased tracking loss. YEEEHAAAWWW??
    To be fair, that may depend on your room. For me, if something in VR falls under my desk, I lose traction.  With inside out, I would still have traction. 

    There aren't many instances where you need to keep traction behind your back.

    The OLED issue is what worries me most. Plenty of games have day/night cycles and I like when it's dark. It would be immersion breaking to see grey instead of black at night. 
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,811 Valuable Player
     The best headset now might be a Vive Pro with knuckles controllers. And if Valve announces Half-Life 3 VR then the enthusiasts will have to go with that.  
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,550 Valuable Player
    edited March 21
    MowTin said:
    Zenbane said:
    Yeah, no outside sensors translates to increased tracking loss. YEEEHAAAWWW??
    To be fair, that may depend on your room. For me, if something in VR falls under my desk, I lose traction.  With inside out, I would still have traction. 

    There aren't many instances where you need to keep traction behind your back.
    True, I saw a few videos now and it seem like someone still lost tracking when the controllers were at their side in a standing position. The other half the problem is when you stand still and don't move your head you keep a solid position on tracking - but when you do move around - aka move your head in weird angles - it created blind spots for the trackers on the side for the Rift S. There are some games that do require to reach around to grab weapons off your back and for people that was using the quest - found that if their hands are above their head - they lost tracking. The Rift S added that camera on top just to fix that issue for one area of freedom, but still lack a solution that the other half was still missing. Heck - if your hands are on your chest to pull a grenade - while you are trying to angle your head around a wall - you can create that blind sport pretty easy.

    How much will this effect people - I think will end up being on the person. People looking for 100% tracking might see some issues while others will not know or simply just deal with it.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,874 Valuable Player
    vannagirl said:
    Ohh dear!!

    i enjoy sitting in elite by a sun just listening to music, is about my skill level

    blacks are kinda important really. I remember the grey Nvidia bug a while ago it looked terrible, that said the godrays can also be a mood killer, similar to Snowdogs laundry...

    i still keep my interest but it is suddenly diving toward this HP hmd now, darn Oculus please just tie up the loose ends not spread them over hmds



    Yep I am with you there, 95% sure at this point I will be placing an order for an HP Reverb next month.
    After all it is my birthday month woohoo!
    Don

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  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,811 Valuable Player
    Mradr said:
    True, I saw a few videos now and it seem like someone still lost tracking when the controllers were at their side in a standing position. The other half the problem is when you stand still and don't move your head you keep a solid position on tracking - but when you do move around - aka move your head in weird angles - it created blind spots for the trackers on the side for the Rift S. There are some games that do require to reach around to grab weapons off your back and for people that was using the quest - found that if their hands are above their head - they lost tracking. The Rift S added that camera on top just to fix that issue for one area of freedom, but still lack a solution that the other half was still missing. Heck - if your hands are on your chest to pull a grenade - while you are trying to angle your head around a wall - you can create that blind sport pretty easy.

    How much will this effect people - I think will end up being on the person. People looking for 100% tracking might see some issues while others will not know or simply just deal with it.
    Strange, the guy from Tested says he tried to make the controls lose traction but he couldn't. Who is claiming they are losing traction?
    i7 6700k 2080ti   Rift-S, Index
  • cybernettrcybernettr Posts: 933
    3Jane
    Only one feature I really wanted (higher resolution) and two I wasn't really clamoring for (rear adjustment wheel and sensorless tracking) but not the one I most wanted (wider field of view). Plus their announcement page is vague on just how improved the resolution is. The sensorless tracking does look cool, but the current system is already in place at my home and works pretty well. I guess it depends on how much of an improvement it is. I'm also a little concerned about Oculus/Facebook not-so-subtly pushing political correctness in games. I just want GOOD GAMES.
  • vannagirlvannagirl Posts: 2,005 Valuable Player
    dburne said:
    vannagirl said:
    Ohh dear!!

    i enjoy sitting in elite by a sun just listening to music, is about my skill level

    blacks are kinda important really. I remember the grey Nvidia bug a while ago it looked terrible, that said the godrays can also be a mood killer, similar to Snowdogs laundry...

    i still keep my interest but it is suddenly diving toward this HP hmd now, darn Oculus please just tie up the loose ends not spread them over hmds



    Yep I am with you there, 95% sure at this point I will be placing an order for an HP Reverb next month.
    After all it is my birthday month woohoo!
    Well I say an early happy birthday and hope you do detailed reviews with it just to make us envious or also jump ship 

    it looks on paper great, I have lower my standards a lot if it has blacks, enhanced visuals and lack of godaweful rays I’m in
    Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are. 
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,594 Volunteer Moderator
    I do see it as a shame. All us faithful CV1 users are now beginning to divide. I suppose it had to happen  but times are a changing. I won't buy any Lenovo oops sorry, Oculus products again until a true updated CV2 comes along. They got my money for the DK1 DK2 CV1 and the GO but that's about it. Onwards and upwards, I'll probably get the HP even if it lasts for 18 months until a new HMD from Oculus comes out then I'll reboard the train.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,550 Valuable Player
    edited March 21
    MowTin said:
    Strange, the guy from Tested says he tried to make the controls lose traction but he couldn't. Who is claiming they are losing traction?
    Even Tested said it too... what do you mean Tested never said he couldn't lose tracking LOL!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vtryRHVg_I
    18:08 he said he tried to do the full range and when he look back he snap back into place - aka it lost tracking.

    Even the old CV1 does the same - it will guess - but not know where it is 100% if it loses tracking.
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,838 Valuable Player
    Techy111 said:
    I do see it as a shame. All us faithful CV1 users are now beginning to divide. I suppose it had to happen  but times are a changing. I won't buy any Lenovo oops sorry, Oculus products again until a true updated CV2 comes along. They got my money for the DK1 DK2 CV1 and the GO but that's about it. Onwards and upwards, I'll probably get the HP even if it lasts for 18 months until a new HMD from Oculus comes out then I'll reboard the train.

    You seem as always to have hit the nail on the head.
    It is that disenfranchisement that is doing the most harm - a lack of actual communication with an install based (no matter if it was smaller than you had anticipated). What is worst is maybe the lack of clarification, even though they have placed themselves away from communicating with the "unwashed", when rumors persist not even attempting the manage the message - this will come home to haunt them.

    But we have to be mindful that there has been an incredible loss and restructuring internally. A partnership with Lenovo filled a number of holes left by recent departures, and if it is true that Rift-S was a 24-month project, then its impressive that the new teams could gel so quickly. Let down by an ineffectual marketing and publicity team unable to manage the message.

    All that can be hoped that the current management learns from this painful lesson, and now actively starts a dialogue with their customer base (who remain) towards what is in the best interests for the CV2.
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