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Rift S Disappointment Thread so Oculus knows our feedback!

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  • schmeltzerschmeltzer Posts: 298
    Art3mis
    Yes, I am disappointed. IPD of 74. CV1 was not ideal. Bought all my software on Oculus Store. That race to the bottom sure isn't working out for me.
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,713 Valuable Player
    Yes, I am disappointed. IPD of 74. CV1 was not ideal. Bought all my software on Oculus Store. That race to the bottom sure isn't working out for me.
    Yeah sad to see Oculus no longer being a leader in the PC-VR category.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,231
    Wintermute
    Do all the people on these forums that know their IPD wear glasses? I was just wondering because I don't know my IPD but I don't wear glasses so maybe that's why. 

    I currently own Oculus GO though and I don't feel any discomfort compared to my Rift which is also perfect but obviously has the IPD slider. So I'm guessing my IPD must be in the majority range of 65. Although I do have a big head! lol
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    Do all the people on these forums that know their IPD wear glasses? I was just wondering because I don't know my IPD but I don't wear glasses so maybe that's why. 

    I currently own Oculus GO though and I don't feel any discomfort compared to my Rift which is also perfect but obviously has the IPD slider. So I'm guessing my IPD must be in the majority range of 65. Although I do have a big head! lol
    You can ballpark it with a ruler or stiff tape measure. https://www.zennioptical.com/measuring-pd-infographic   Won't be as accurate as an eye test but good enough to have something to work from. Mine's 68ish. 
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player

    dburne said:
    Yes, I am disappointed. IPD of 74. CV1 was not ideal. Bought all my software on Oculus Store. That race to the bottom sure isn't working out for me.
    Yeah sad to see Oculus no longer being a leader in the PC-VR category.
    If your definition of "leader" is "making ultra-expensive devices that tech nerds wank off to the specs of, but which nobody ends up actually buying"   then sure, other companies definitely have them beat.  And I'm sure that "Race to Bankruptcy" is working out much better than the so-called "Race to the Bottom".

    Personally I prefer Oculus' strategy of "Making good VR systems that the average person can actually afford, and ensuring those headsets have quality content available for them".


    P.S.   Sorry to the people who fall outside of the Rift-S IPD range, though. That's one area Oculus shouldn't have made a trade-off on.  Hope you can find a good alternative device.. I hear Quest still has physical IPD sliders?
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,038 Valuable Player
    Do all the people on these forums that know their IPD wear glasses? I was just wondering because I don't know my IPD but I don't wear glasses so maybe that's why. 

    I currently own Oculus GO though and I don't feel any discomfort compared to my Rift which is also perfect but obviously has the IPD slider. So I'm guessing my IPD must be in the majority range of 65. Although I do have a big head! lol

    Get yourself a mirror. Close one of your eyes and put the end of the ruler to the middle of your pupil. Open your other eye and you'll see the measurement where the middle of the other pupil is.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • nalex66nalex66 Posts: 4,880 Volunteer Moderator
    edited March 25
    Do all the people on these forums that know their IPD wear glasses? I was just wondering because I don't know my IPD but I don't wear glasses so maybe that's why.
    I know my IPD from the DK2 days. There was a process in the old software to determine your IPD within the headset, which then gave you a number that you could put into your user profile (the pre-CV1 software let you create multiple user profiles).

    I've also confirmed it with the mirror-and-ruler method, and verified it against the CV1 adjustment process.
    i7 5820K @ 4.25 GHz | EVGA GTX 1080 SC | Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4 | Corsair DDR4 3000 32 GB | Corsair HX 750W
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  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    Y'all know I'm not a fan of Palmer Luckey, but he may have actually come up with a good idea:   Manufacture multiple models of Rift-S with differing IPD ranges.

    Taken from an UploadVR article: https://uploadvr.com/palmer-luckey-rift-s/
    So what would Luckey have preferred? He presented several possible alternatives but his favorite was offering different versions of Rift S tailored for different IPD sizes. “Rift S should have done this,” he said. “The logistical overhead of managing a handful of different SKUs with slightly different plastic pieces holding the lenses at slightly different distances would have allowed Rift S to keep costs low and expand the addressable market for VR without cutting out new and old customers alike.”

    Seems like that'd do the trick, wouldn't it?  And you'd probably only need like, three separate models to really accomodate everyone;  the standard mid-range, a low-range, and a high-range.  Set the median point of the low-range headset at 60 ipd, and the high-range at 70, or something like that?

    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • ShineHunterShineHunter Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    edited March 25
    Well it turns out the fanboys are not listening to those disappointed. Lets hope Oculus is. 
  • Devlin-DarksideDevlin-Darkside Posts: 130
    Art3mis
    So Im wondering how this IPD on the S will effect kids/teenagers. More than likely it will rule them out completely.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,149 Volunteer Moderator
    Well it turns out the fanboys are not listening to those disappointed. Lets hope Oculus is. 


    That's the easiest and laziest way to dismiss other people's point of view, without having to think about what the arguments are that are being discussed, well done.

    Try and remember that this is a forum, different points of view are not only allowed but welcomed.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18362.418)
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,038 Valuable Player
    There's no way that Oculus would have three separate SKUs for different IPD settings. Not going to happen.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,520 Valuable Player
    CrashFu said:
    Y'all know I'm not a fan of Palmer Luckey, but he may have actually come up with a good idea:   Manufacture multiple models of Rift-S with differing IPD ranges.

    Taken from an UploadVR article: https://uploadvr.com/palmer-luckey-rift-s/
    So what would Luckey have preferred? He presented several possible alternatives but his favorite was offering different versions of Rift S tailored for different IPD sizes. “Rift S should have done this,” he said. “The logistical overhead of managing a handful of different SKUs with slightly different plastic pieces holding the lenses at slightly different distances would have allowed Rift S to keep costs low and expand the addressable market for VR without cutting out new and old customers alike.”

    Seems like that'd do the trick, wouldn't it?  And you'd probably only need like, three separate models to really accomodate everyone;  the standard mid-range, a low-range, and a high-range.  Set the median point of the low-range headset at 60 ipd, and the high-range at 70, or something like that?

    or idk - maybe like NOT have remove the option to change it? Seems like a better idea to me XD
  • ShineHunterShineHunter Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    edited March 25
    Well it turns out the fanboys are not listening to those disappointed. Lets hope Oculus is. 


    That's the easiest and laziest way to dismiss other people's point of view, without having to think about what the arguments are that are being discussed, well done.

    Try and remember that this is a forum, different points of view are not only allowed but welcomed.

    Still not listening are you. Yet you want us to listen to you don't you. Even when you make no sense. Who was not listening to you in a lazy or easy way lol, not me. I read your whole comment. Yet when I say this Rift S suck balls you just don't hear my disappointment. Yeah I know some people with potato PC will like it but those of us and we are so many, we wanted next gen. Don't say they will bring a next gen out because well where did you hear that and please share it with us all. Your last comment really does not apply to my comment. When I'm saying the fanboys are not listening, I'm saying so far the replies have been not great and on the end of truth Oculus A hole kissing. I'm not happy Oculus. You could of done better than this. Alot better. 3 years for this half baked outsourced 1.1 gen. Oculus don't read your fanboys comments as they make up a small number and we the massive you see on Twitter and YouTube should be heard. We have made a selves heard through the internet. At least come out and tell us that your still working on that amazing Half dome headset so we don't jump teams to Valve. Comos is sounding good right now.  
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,038 Valuable Player
    Well it turns out the fanboys are not listening to those disappointed. Lets hope Oculus is. 


    That's the easiest and laziest way to dismiss other people's point of view, without having to think about what the arguments are that are being discussed, well done.

    Try and remember that this is a forum, different points of view are not only allowed but welcomed.

    Still not listening are you. Yet you want us to listen to you don't you. Even when you make no sense. Who was not listening to you in a lazy or easy way lol, not me. I read your whole comment. Yet when I say this Rift S suck balls you just don't hear my disappointment. Yeah I know some people with potato PC will like it but those of us and we are so many, we wanted next gen. Don't say they will bring a next gen out because well where did you hear that and please share it with us all. Your last comment really does not apply to my comment. When I'm saying the fanboys are not listening, I'm saying so far the replies have been not great and on the end of truth Oculus A hole kissing. I'm not happy Oculus. You could of done better than this. Alot better. 3 years for this half baked outsourced 1.1 gen. Oculus don't read your fanboys comments as they make up a small number and we the massive you see on Twitter and YouTube should be heard. We have made a selves heard through the internet. At least come out and tell us that your still working on that amazing Half dome headset so we don't jump teams to Valve. Comos is sounding good right now.  

    Firstly, there's these things called paragraphs and they're VERY cool lol  :D

    Just in case you haven't read any of my previous comments regarding the Half Dome prototype I'll post it again here.

    Oculus are working on the tick tock model for their headsets. The Rift CV1 was the tick. The Rift S is the tock, a version of the tick product with improvements such as a higher resolution, better lenses. The CV2 is going to be another tick. It's going to end up having 4K displays, eye tracking and dynamic foveated rendering and 140 degrees FOV with the same form factor as the Rift.

    The Rift CV2 S will be another tock having upgrades in displays, lenses and if the CV2 doesn't have it then the CV2 S will have the varifocal feature from the Half Dome prototype.

    Oculus aren't going to abandon high end PC VR because they need it to implement new and expensive tech that enthusiasts are willing to pay a premium price for. Why do they need this? Because features from the Rift line will benefit the Go and Quest lines when that new tech becomes cheaper to produce.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,038 Valuable Player
    I don't think we'll see it as soon as next year because that would see Oculus releasing three headsets in four years. HTC won't imo release the Vive Cosmos this year for the same reason, that would mean they would be releasing three headsets in three years. I just can't see it happening.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,149 Volunteer Moderator
    edited March 25

    You could be right Snow, I'm going to stick with my prediction though.

    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18362.418)
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,669 Valuable Player
    edited March 26
    Do all the people on these forums that know their IPD wear glasses? I was just wondering because I don't know my IPD but I don't wear glasses so maybe that's why. 

    I currently own Oculus GO though and I don't feel any discomfort compared to my Rift which is also perfect but obviously has the IPD slider. So I'm guessing my IPD must be in the majority range of 65. Although I do have a big head! lol

    I'm not sure it has anything to do with having a large head, it's more to do with how far apart your eyes are. I think having a large head would just give you an Oculus face. 
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    Some people just can't comprehend why Oculus would want to sell a $400 device (that requires a $500-$1000 PC) to a very large number of people when they could be trying to sell a $1000+ device (that requires a multi-thousand-dollar PC) to like... 1/100th as many people.

    But then again, he actually thinks that high-end PC users ARE the masses, and that people stuck with "potato PCs" are a small minority who should be ignored?  It's incredible; I guess that's what happens when you isolate yourself within "PCMR" communities and lose touch with the rest of the world.

    Hey rich kids, ask yourself this:  If the majority of people, or even the majority of the gaming market were wealthy enough to own high-spec gaming PCs,  then why do most of them settle for inexpensive gaming consoles instead of running out and buying the newest Alienware or w/e?  Why didn't VR achieve Mass Adoption years ago?   Why didn't very many people in the Vive camp upgrade to Vive Pro when it came out?

    Just because wealthy tech enthusiasts were the first people able to afford VR doesn't make you the only audience worth catering to.  Not unless you'd be willing to pay 10x as much for every piece of software you buy, to compensate for all of the people who wouldn't be able to afford a Rift at all, if Oculus had prioritized the high-end.
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,038 Valuable Player
    Yup. The most important thing that Oculus has done with the Rift S is keep the same minimum spec requirement. Three years ago you needed a powerful gaming PC to run a Rift, but three years later you'll find laptops being able to run one.

    The minimum and recommend specs will probably change with the CV2 in 2022 but even then you'll probably find laptops able to run it thanks to eye tracking and dynamic foveated rendering.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • ChivasChivas Posts: 205
    Nexus 6
    As a long time Oculus supporter I'm Very disappointed...especially in regards to the non existent physical IPD adjustment.   I think Facebook has really dropped the ball in VR development, with this weak Rift S product.  I thought Oculus/Facebook had amassed one of the most talented VR teams in the industry, but beginning to think Facebook has hobbled Oculus efforts to provide the best cutting edge products.  IMHO Oculus has moved from an industry leader to just another ho-hum VR product.
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,038 Valuable Player
    Chivas said:
    As a long time Oculus supporter I'm Very disappointed...especially in regards to the non existent physical IPD adjustment.   I think Facebook has really dropped the ball in VR development, with this weak Rift S product.  I thought Oculus/Facebook had amassed one of the most talented VR teams in the industry, but beginning to think Facebook has hobbled Oculus efforts to provide the best cutting edge products.  IMHO Oculus has moved from an industry leader to just another ho-hum VR product.

    Just wait until the tock comes with the CV2. And they're still an industry leader, all you have to do is look at the Touch controllers to see that. The vast majority of headsets have Touch clones, including the Vive Cosmos.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • RichooalRichooal Posts: 1,145
    Wintermute
    snowdog said:
    The CV2 is going to be another tick. It's going to end up having 4K displays, eye tracking and dynamic foveated rendering and 140 degrees FOV with the same form factor as the Rift.

    The Rift CV2 S will be another tock .......

    snowdog said:
    Just wait until the tock comes with the CV2.

    I just can't keep up with you techy guys. Things change so quick, one minute CV2 is a "tick" and the next it's a "tock".
    i5 6600k - GTX1060 - 8GB RAM - 0 PROBLEMS
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,520 Valuable Player
    edited March 25
    CrashFu said:

    Just because wealthy tech enthusiasts were the first people able to afford VR doesn't make you the only audience worth catering to.  Not unless you'd be willing to pay 10x as much for every piece of software you buy, to compensate for all of the people who wouldn't be able to afford a Rift at all, if Oculus had prioritized the high-end.
    I think there is another view you are not looking at either. I will try to explain the best I can, but just because you  can lower the price it doesn't mean its going to fix the problem either. The value you pay something at has to match the value you are wanting in return. If that is broken - you end up with some problems later down the road from either side. Trust me, I see it in service all the time.

    1) The thing is most gaming computers still start at around 1k$. The argument that keeping the price low on the head set for more sells - still might not hold as much water when the issue isnt so much price of the HMD - but the level quality of the hardware and the software that goes with it.

    Even if we make the HMD cost only 200$ - the entry to get into PCVR is still going to be high either way unless we can figure out how to support the video card onto the HMD (Quest) or keep the level of hardware support low and this has other problems if we do.

    2) A lot of people want to push going forward because that is how everything has always work in the computer world. There are two camps out there. One that wants a super amazing value and another that wants bleeding edge. The sad truth - one cant live without the other in terms of value to scale. Without the high end show off and testing the new features - the low end will never demand these features at a value that matches what they want to pay. Along with that, it never opens the door to the future for people meaning instead of getting a choice for low or high end - they are either stuck in one option that they might not like.
     
    Right now we have GO, Quest, CV1, and now a Rift S - but they all meet what would be consider low end to a lot of people (CV1 included because of the age). Thats a large amount of options now for lower end. There isnt a option for higher end hardware or people that dont mind spending more to get something bleeding edge. Granted, I am not saying go balls to the wall here either. What I mean is that there needs to be a higher end option that makes sense for the price and value of what you are getting in return. That doesnt mean to say make a headset that is going to be price out of what most people are willing to pay, but it does mean you dont have to aim low to get more sells either. There is a balance in there that will fit a pretty good market value. 500-800 seems like there is market there willing to pay for good quality of hardware either it be video cards, HMD (I mean look at CV1), and phones.

    Example, I remember seeing some games set to max setting and remembering how omg pretty the game look. Granted, I couldn't afford the high end video cards at the time to get max settings, but yet I was looking at the cards and demanding/waiting for the next set to features to come out on their next line of hardware so I could. This created both a want and a need for me (as the customer) to want to go to the next step up or upgrade as soon as I could on their next line of cards at my price point. Along with already having cards out that could do that - game makers could flex their stuff just a bit with their software also creating that need and want to run their software.

    3) Hardware isnt good enough right now for other options or uses. One thing I love to get started using VR for is as another monitor. The problem is the hardware (CV1) just doesn't have enough PPD or a way to focus on the text well enough to make a stander monitor yet. Keeping the price low means they cant add in higher PPD displays or full RGB display(s) to the headset. There for, technology such as this will take longer to get out to the public that means less market pressure on it self to have people start taking the leap of faith to bring it outside of gaming and into other software markets.

    4) Again going back to 2 and 3 there - if game software and hardware cant flex even a little bit on their eye candy -  there wont be any draw for the customer to see it as any better than a lower end system. Im 100% sure you've see the arguments that "vr looks like 720p graphics" compare to 1080p flat screen monitors. Yet, we all agree - that really doesnt matter when you get into the games as your brain melts that away. New users dont know that though and even when I first got my VR headset - I thought the same. Granted it was rough back then (DK), but I could easily see where VR was going and could be going in the near future if it was properly support correctly.

    5) Low end hardware doesnt bring in larges amount of money UNLESS there is a LARGE group of you. The main reason I say this is the fact you have to question your self - why cant people afford a higher cost model? What it keeping them from spending the money? Even if they do spend the money - do they even have enough to buy more games? Catering to a lower end market brings in a lot more questions because the other end is going to want to NOT spend a lot of money for their habits meaning you have to sell 2x more and the market will reflect that as well meaning we wont see 60$ games, but instead 30$ or 15$ games That means devs are going to limit or be more controlling on how long their game takes, the quality of the game, and support after the game is release for bugs and add ons. Games that make a lot of money tend to want to go bigger on their next games, but games that tend to make less - might not ever make another game at all.


    TLDR:
    1) Price of entry isnt the HMD - but the computer it self.
    2) There is value supporting the higher end that creates demand/want from the lower end
    3) Limiting hardware means limited support options outside usefulness
    4) Limited hardware means limited software
    5) Price limits software quality

    Honestly - I really hope Oculus is going to release another HMD for the high end PC next year. If they dont - even if you think keeping the low end is a better option - they're going to lose a percent of their customer base or even their customer base will be more flex on what to go to next. Low end already has many options - getting Rift S is just another lower end product - people are going to wonder soon or later why VR hardware isnt growing fast enough and I think its going to get another "dead" maker from the market.
  • RattyUKRattyUK Posts: 914
    3Jane
    But, if the Rift S is not an 'upgrade' for standard Rift owners (but sounds like it will be its replacement) why is a disappointment thread needed for Rift owners?
    If it was being hyped as the 'CV2' then such might provoke disappointment among those of us who are looking for the next big thing.
    So what on earth is all the fuss about?  What is there to be so upset about?
    I'd consider the S to replace my Rift and lose the sensors muddle, as well as making it useful on my laptop too, but it wouldn't be 'upgrading'  - that will come later I'm sure.
    PC info: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X, MSI MPG X570 Edge, 16GB Tforce Pro Dark DDR4 3200, KFA2 RTX 2080 Super, Samsung 870 Pro M.2, 2x 240GB SSD, 3TB WD Green HDD & 4 TB Seagate Barracuda HDD, Antec Modular 750w PSU, custom watercooling loop. (Win 10 Pro & Opensuse Leap 15.1 Linux) 32" AOC 4K Monitor.

    Laptop: Aorus X5 V6-CF1 (I7-6820HK, GTX 1070, 2* 256GB M.2 NVME, 1TB 7200 HDD)
  • ShineHunterShineHunter Posts: 26
    Brain Burst

    @ShineHunter I'm listening, hence my comment. I also didn't say you weren't listening. I said you were dismissing people with a different opinion in rather a rude way. It's just rude to dismiss people who have a different opinion than yours by calling them fanboys. Same deal with calling people trolls. I don't do it. Instead I discuss the arguments.

    So, going back to the arguments... no I don't have facts to say Oculus are bringing out a next gen headset. We're voicing our respective opinions based on what we think is likely. As I said, this is a forum and expressing different opinions doesn't mean we're not listening, it just means we have different opinions. When you say the replies aren't great, do youi mean they don't agree with you?

    Anyway, announcing a headset that you're not happy with doesn't mean that Oculus won't bring out an enthusiast headset when they consider the time to be right.

    I happen to think the time will be right in around 12 months for the reasons I've already said i.e PPD increase of around 40%, an FOV increase of maybe 30% and a GPU available that can drive it. Possibly sooner if foveated rendering has been finalised.

    Sorry if you're angered at people who don't come round to agreeing with you but that's life.

    If I say I don't like it why is some one trying to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not angered at people who don't agree with me, just don't need them trying to make me agree with them. It's not like they can make this a next gen headset. I personally love my Rift and I'm a fan of it, but I'm not a yes man. I didn't come for an argument because there is nothing to argue about. We know everything about the Rift S now. Reassurance is what I need. I'm not saying everyone is fanboy or a troll. Some replies have been very defence for Oculus on here to the point of extreme. I know alot of people that are not happy, but wouldn't even try to come on here to say it due to what they have seen already from the replies. Instead Discord is getting it all, Twitter and YouTube. 

    Anyway next gen isn't clearly happening this year at least. If it does happen please be the Half dome. 
  • ShineHunterShineHunter Posts: 26
    Brain Burst
    If people want a low end Rift for their low end PC's why don't Ouclus just keep the OG Rift and keep making it cheaper. The price could of been Go price one day. Lots more people would jump on then. OG Rift for low end PC and a new Rift CV2 for high end PC users. Kinda like the Vive and Vive Pro. Though please be better than the Vive Pro. 
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