Valve Index - Specifications released. - Page 20 — Oculus
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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,813
    Project 2501
    Zenbane said:
    inovator said:
    When you say many people are upset due to the debacle  (I guess you mean the disagreement on how much  the s will be  improved) and will move on to steam vr. You may find the many moving to steamvr for the reasons you state may be the minority. That we won't know for a period of time after the release. Maybe I'm wrong and your right but I think I'm strongly in the running.

    You may be "strongly in the running" in your own mind, but SteamVR has always been more alluring for anyone who has been afraid in to being locked to a single ecosystem. Remember that if you buy a title on Oculus Home, you don't automatically get a Steam Key for the same game. Some developers give these out, but those are rare exceptions. What Rift-S has done is remind people that if you stick with an Exclusive Platform, there is always a chance that the Company will make a Hardware move that no longer suits your needs. So if you move to a competitor, your Software is stuck in that Exclusive Software.

    Everyone moving away from the Oculus Rift and towards something like HP Reverb or Valve Index will face this challenge.

    Also, you cannot be "strongly in the running" because Steam's VR numbers already show the Oculus Rift in the lead. So your arguments are based on pure personal inventory theory, not actual facts.

    You bring up some very good points some of which I already agreed. My main point being tracking with sensors eventually will not exist or be a very tiny part of what does exist. As far as oculus list being in the lead in steam vr, I understand that but in my case I also buy games on steam vr but I buy in the oculus store more. That may happen with many other users as well.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,809 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:

    What Rift-S has done is remind people that if you stick with an Exclusive Platform, there is always a chance that the Company will make a Hardware move that no longer suits your needs. So if you move to a competitor, your Software is stuck in that Exclusive Software.

    Everyone moving away from the Oculus Rift and towards something like HP Reverb or Valve Index will face this challenge.
    I just hope OpenXR makes this all moot in the years ahead.  It would be nice to put the whole betamax vs VHS / blueray vs HDDVD bollocks behind us, esp as it is a software issue not a hardware issue (so if the will is there can be fixed)

    unlike the video or media disk example however there needent be a winner and a loser i think both hardware platforms can exist together and this in term would benefit everyone, and remove some of the uncertainty that people have. (no one wants to be the owner of the betamax device and this could easily be making some people not buy anything imo).

    (i still have a HDDVD system however )
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,327 Valuable Player
    edited April 9
    RuneSR2 said:
    There's nothing better than Index hype  <3  :D



    Today I'll do my very best not to add more to the hype - except for maybe just a tiny addition  o:)

    "Very good friend of mine works for a big studio.

    He confirmed me that he tried the new valve headset weeks ago. It was only for some minutes.

    He has a strong NDA with his studio and doesn't want to get fired, so he just gave me some small teaser.

    -> No SDE! He couldn't see the pixels, but tried it only once and onyl for some minutes. He said it was way better then the vive pro."

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/bb5zhw/sde_leak/


    Ok, one more then :blush:

    "Now, The problem with the idea of valve releasing an HMD with higher res screen than the vive pro, was that display port 1.2 wouldn’t allow for a higher res. Well... here why it is actually possible the index have duel 2k screens, and why it’s only possible with eye tracking. Understand this means almost all of valves patents must have come together to make this possible. (thanks /u/nw15062 for this info)

    One of the biggest overlooked details in valves patent is how Foveated render masking allows for reducing the data sent to the hmd while supporting high resolution displays. details in the patents mention reduction in bandwidth required through a post rendering technique that sends checkered quad pixels, then fills in the gap data and performs smoothing on the headset side. This can be done outside of the game engine through steam vr, it would allow 2k displays without the need for more than DP1.2.

    Patent: RADIAL DENSITY MASKING SYSTEMS AND METHODS Publication number: 20170221184

    Display with stacked emission and control logic layers Patent number: 9829710

    Valves HMD with eye tracking allows for Foviated render masking and radial density masking centered at a point of the users gaze. No game engine changes are required, a steam VR API simply masks pixels reducing the number pixels rendered which are then sent down the video path. Then the gaps are filled in using neighboring pixels with a Gaussian blur through the headset.

    The performance gain is the result of the reduced number of overall pixels rendered in each frame while reducing the amount of data sent over the video path to the headset whether through wired or wireless transmission, this is how DP1.2 can output to higher displays. this technology simply maintains a lower bandwidth for the same perceived resolution and clarity."

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/bb2bmx/display_port_12_makes_sense_only_if_the_valve/

    So no SDE (=massive res), displayport 1.2 (=no support for massive res), possible eye tracking... I wouldn't object to the logic that massive res (=no SDE) would require eye tracking IF displayport 1.2 is true... 

    Published 2017:

    "Now, SMI and Valve are working to integrate eye tracking directly into OpenVR. The goal is to provide VR applications with a convenient way to add one or more eye tracking benefits, such as gaze-augmented interaction, foveated rendering - which delivers a high-end VR experience with lower computational demands - and realistic eye contact between avatars thanks to SMI's Social Eye."

    https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/gdc-2017-valve-demos-smi-eye-tracking-on-its-proven-vr-platform-2017-03-01

    Image result for i want to believe

    https://imgur.com/a/Ee13Xth

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,813
    Project 2501
    I may be very jelous if index is that good but alas the sensors required totally kill it for me. If it had inside out tracking and was unbelievable I can see me paying up to a grand. 
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,954 Valuable Player
    edited April 10
    If I am paying a grand I would like both. Having said that I never really had any issues with inside out tracking as I don't tend to move my set up from my games room. I would miss the highly accurate sensor tracking though, one of the features of CV1 that always amazed me.

    Edit: I am pretty pumped about the Index reveal in May. Now reviewing all that has happened over the last few weeks, I am sure the Rift S was a rushed last minute product (hence the Lenovo dimension) as they were really concerned about the Index and had nothing to compete. One assumes it could mean it is something special and they consider, for the first time they have a serious competitor.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,954 Valuable Player
    RuneSR2 said:
    The cheapskate semi-Index solution for Touch haters  ;)

    So does this mean HP Reverb could use the knuckles :)
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,954 Valuable Player
    Is it May yet ?
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    edited April 11
    Is it May yet ?
    (champing at the bit if you don't get the reference)


  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,410 Valuable Player
    It really seems that Valve is going for "Valve time" on this announcement and also on the whole placement of Index into the VR scene - it is as if they want to sidestep the current VR community and engender their own following.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 3,809 Valuable Player
    Valve do everything valvetime. I doubt it is because they are not interested in making money off the current generation, they are not a company for turning down anyone's money.

    The cynic in me suggests they announce regardless of ready just to try to pee on other companies announcements, ie knuckles shown off to try to dampen touch and now index announced to detract from rift s.

    At least it looks like we won't have a 3 year wait for index like we did for knuckles
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    Valve do everything valvetime. I doubt it is because they are not interested in making money off the current generation, they are not a company for turning down anyone's money.

    The cynic in me suggests they announce regardless of ready just to try to pee on other companies announcements, ie knuckles shown off to try to dampen touch and now index announced to detract from rift s.

    At least it looks like we won't have a 3 year wait for index like we did for knuckles
    Yea, since the start, Valve has always taken their time. I think Valve were intending to release knuckles for the Vive to give touch some competition but since everyone ripped it for using the same trackpads as the Vive they changed the design for EV3. I think at some point during that development they decided to just hold them for the Index. I'm curious if there will be any significant changes to the retail version from EV3.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,327 Valuable Player
    Sometimes I wonder if I'll live long enough to experience Half-life 3.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    RuneSR2 said:
    Sometimes I wonder if I'll live long enough to experience Half-life 3.
    I think they're scared to release a Half-life 3 at this point because of the insane expectations it would have. They tried to develop it at least twice that I know of and scrapped it because they didn't think it was good enough. 
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,813
    Project 2501
    RuneSR2 said:
    Today's episode of The Index Hype TV-show B) - introducing (more speculation about) the games:

    Hype and speculation = fun. Thanks for the video
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,327 Valuable Player
    edited April 13
    Some more stuff to consider For Those Who Wait  :)

    Valve Index Controller Support List


    Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/bcm800/valve_index_controller_support_list/

    Vertigo 2 could be interesting - maybe:





    Boneworks looks great too (but not awesome), and maybe a good thing I haven't yet bought Vox Machinae. The rest of the titles on the list are of little or no interest to me. Software before hardware: I'm not going to buy some new hardware unless there's some new and revolutionary software I truly want to experience.
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,454
    Project 2501
    With things like openxr and revive, who produces the software is kind of irrelevant to me. I play games on Steam, Oculus Home and now even Viveport with their $13 a month and play 600 games deal. Give me better hardware and I'll buy everyone's software. 
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,410 Valuable Player
    Impressive - thanks for sharing.
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    Something seems a bit off with the pinky even with the new update. He moves it and sometimes nothing happens other times it moves correctly.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited April 17
    pyroth309 said:
    Mradr said:
    Something seems a bit off with the pinky even with the new update. He moves it and sometimes nothing happens other times it moves correctly.
    Yea this is unacceptable and is going to completely harm my pinky swear game.
    HAHAHAH, sorry xD Us Fancy Rich Fork like to keep our pinkies up:)

    Image result for pinky up

    But for real - not that big of a deal xD I just thought it was funny the video made claim it was all fix - butt hen saw the pinky not work was all xD
This discussion has been closed.