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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,572 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    I suppose that depends if you champion quality or quantity (tho talking about quality on this crap forum software which has yet again mucked up the quote is kind of funny)

    Agreed. Anyone who actually owns a PCVR Consumer headset and has actively used it for the last 3 years knows that there's nothing about SteamVR that "trumps" Oculus Home. But unless someone owns a PCVR product and uses it regularly, then it's all just theorycrafting.

    kevinw729 said:
    I have personally placed the PC VR community into five groups:

    - No0bs - those that have not owned any of the systems and come fresh

    That's what I call people who have strong online opinions about consumer PCVR without ever actually showcasing first-hand knowledge of PCVR experiences. Like... writing reviews or posting videos of the vast PCVR Library that they have mastered. Theorycrafting No0bs is probably a better phrase.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,770 Valuable Player

    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • Techy111Techy111 Posts: 6,488 Volunteer Moderator
    This thread is a gnats whisker away from being closed and deleted and stamped on, enough willy waving or I'll close all threads where peace and harmony doesn't exist. Any users here who were banned will also be exposed in the very near future. Fair warned.
    A PC with lots of gadgets inside and a thing to see in 3D that you put on your head.

  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,143 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    So Kevin have you tried the index? Are you allowed to say under a NDA?
  • kevinw729kevinw729 Posts: 4,770 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    So Kevin have you tried the index? Are you allowed to say under an NDA?

    Even if I had I would not be allowed to tell you  B)

    No worries anyway, by Wednesday you will have all the information you can handle....and more!
    P6ftmuw.jpg
    ** New Book **
    "The Out-of-Home Immersive Entertainment Frontier: Expanding Interactive Boundaries in Leisure Facilities"
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Out-Home-Immersive-Entertainment-Frontier/dp/1472426959
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,764 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    kevinw729 said:
    bigmike20vt said:
    ....
    Well however you slice it if you wanna talk content oculus (I suspect due to Facebook cash) are king there.
    .....
    Would not access (control) of SteamVR trump that?


    I suppose that depends if you champion quality or quantity (tho talking about quality on this crap forum software which has yet again mucked up the quote is kind of funny)

    There's nowt wrong with the forum software, you're just pants  :p :D :p
    This forum software is horrible and archaic.
    It could definitely use a complete makeover.
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,764 Valuable Player
    snowdog said:
    I’m basing Wireless inclusion direct from a Gabe Newell interview where he said wireless inclusion in future headsets. 

    Guess we only have to wait till next Wednesday to find out. 

    They would be insane releasing a wireless headset. It would add another $200-300 to the purchase price.
    I certainly do not think it will be wireless.
    Going to take a tethered PC to run all that greatness in a headset.
    Or at least soon we shall know what it will have.



    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    dburne said:

    They would be insane releasing a wireless headset. It would add another $200-300 to the purchase price.
    I certainly do not think it will be wireless.
    Going to take a tethered PC to run all that greatness in a headset.
    Or at least soon we shall know what it will have.



    Considering how much Gabe has talked about wireless in the past, I think a wireless add on is likely. I doubt it will come at release though.
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    Y'know, that whole "brain interface" rumor might not be so far-fetched.

    Don't get me wrong, it wouldn't be the magic sci-fi neural interlink that people wish it was,  but consumer EEG peripherals already exist, such as the NeuroSky MindWave .

    If they built something like that into the Index, it could be used to trigger a specific game input when you "think really hard", which could be a fun gimmick for a tech demo or something ... but I don't think you'd want to base a whole game around it, as players would just find it frustrating when it doesn't work reliably.

    They could also record your general levels of brain activity  (perhaps in conjunction with what you're doing or what objects you're looking at)  and use that data somehow...  For example, selling it to advertisers, or using it to tailor game recommendations.  Or triggering a bunch of enemies to spawn in a game as soon as the player's brain activity starts to dip.

    Of course, having something like that built into the Index would also probably raise the price tag by at least another $100,  so it seems unlikely for that reason alone.   At least, not as a standard feature.  Maybe as an optional accessory that plugs into that slot we assumed to be for Leap Motion?
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,572 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    If Valve does have the brain interface functionality then... LMAO. Can't wait to see the sales numbers.

    Mass consumers are still skeptical of Alexa because she's always listening. This should be fun.
    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    Zenbane said:
    If Valve does have the brain interface functionality then... LMAO. Can't wait to see the sales numbers.

    Mass consumers are still skeptical of Alexa because she's always listening. This should be fun.
    Yeah, can't say I'd be thrilled about the product scanning my brain if its transmitting the info like Alexa does. If anyone is going to be profiting from my data it should be me. That said, im Skeptical that Valve would go down that road especially after Epic got hammered for privacy concerns. 

  • WildtWildt Posts: 2,053 Valuable Player
    Imagine having to mail support saying that the brain sensor isn't working :lol:
    PCVR: CV1 || 4 sensors || TPcast wireless adapter || MamutVR Gun stock V3
    PSVR: PS4 Pro || Move Controllers || Aim controller
    WMR: HP Reverb
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    At this point, the PC gamer community has such a collective case of Stockholm Syndrome, I'm sure most of them would happily volunteer to have their brains scanned, if Valve claimed it would benefit them somehow.

    "We scan your brain to make sure it's really you! It's account security!"

    "We're scanning everyone's brains to make sure they aren't cheating!"

    "We scan your brain to find out what games YOU would like the most, and help you find them!"

    Or maybe they'd just spin it into somehow being an Oculus scandal?   "Oculus doesn't scan your brain because they don't care what their customers think!  Here at Valve, we care."

    Or maybe a total subject diversion?   "Yeah, well.. Rift-S and Quest have downwards-facing cameras!  Why does Facebook want to see your junk so badly, huh?"
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • ZenbaneZenbane Posts: 14,572 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    In 2016, naysayers were like, "I refuse to buy any Oculus products now that Facebook owns them, as Facebook violates everyone's privacy."

    In 2019, the same naysayers, "Valve has drawn a line in the sand and the only company pushing VR forward, as we now get a VR HMD that scans our brains."


    Are you a fan of the Myst games? Check out my Mod at http://www.mystrock.com/
    Catch me on Twitter: twitter.com/zenbane
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,102 Valuable Player
    They won't be able to make a VR headset big enough or powerful enough to scan my far superior brain. B)
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 2,084 Valuable Player
    If oculus does not make a cv2 headset by the end of the year as light and as small as sunglasses I will never give fb the time of day. Or evening for that matter.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.
    If this rumor was true, and they turned out to be full games, that would be even worse for Valve!   Imagine how angry people would be if the first serious Valve games released in ages were available to less than 1% of their customers.  I mean sure, people look the other way when it's an ethics scandal or shady business practices, but finally releasing a new Half Life after all these years, and it has a $1000+ price barrier?

    In fact, I'm not sure what would be worse for them:

    The games are Index exclusive, excluding even MORE of their customers because most of them will never be able to afford one (or the PC to run it)  and Valve look like major tools after harshly criticizing Oculus for platform exclusives..

    Or the games aren't Index exclusive, and the desire to play those games drives everyone who can't afford the Index to buy a Rift-S instead.    I'd love to see the Steam Hardware Survey after that.

    :wink:
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    CrashFu said:
    pyroth309 said:
    In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.
    If this rumor was true, and they turned out to be full games, that would be even worse for Valve!   Imagine how angry people would be if the first serious Valve games released in ages were available to less than 1% of their customers.  I mean sure, people look the other way when it's an ethics scandal or shady business practices, but finally releasing a new Half Life after all these years, and it has a $1000+ price barrier?

    In fact, I'm not sure what would be worse for them:

    The games are Index exclusive, excluding even MORE of their customers because most of them will never be able to afford one (or the PC to run it)  and Valve look like major tools after harshly criticizing Oculus for platform exclusives..

    Or the games aren't Index exclusive, and the desire to play those games drives everyone who can't afford the Index to buy a Rift-S instead.    I'd love to see the Steam Hardware Survey after that.

    :wink:
    That's a lot of conclusions to draw from unfounded rumors. I haven't seen anywhere that the headset is going to cost 1000+. If you're including the computer with that, well you could make the same argument for Rift-S barrier being 1000+ then.
    As far as making games for less than 1% of their customers, not sure that really applies either. The Index isn't out yet. These are launch titles...so these are being made for now for 100% of their future audience. What that ends up being remains to be seen since we don't even have specs yet. 
    The Half-life game is going to be a side game or spinoff. It won't be half-life 3. I'd imagine the same thing will apply with Left4dead. Personally, I wish it was l4d3 and they let us play with flatscreeners. That's a game that needs teammates to be great. 
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,074 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.

    I wonder what that means for the fan based HL2 VR mode

    PS this fecking forum software.. once it decides my curser should be in the quote I can't get the damn thing out.




    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    I was including the cost of the computer, as the vast majority of Steam users do not own VR-capable PCs, and out of the ones that do, even fewer will meet the requirements for any higher-end system, as the Index is appearing to be.

    You also seem to be forgetting that Valve is not a VR company.  They're a game-distributor and very rarely a game developer who are now dipping their toes into the VR industry, but PC gamers who do not have PC VR systems still make up ~99% of their customer-base (and likely always will)   Thus, any VR game Valve makes is being made for only ~1% of their current and future audience, and will be completely unavailable to the rest.  Also, given that they can't afford to neglect that other 99%, it's very unlikely that they'll make any further VR games after the mystery three. Something to keep in mind, before you go thinking that three whole games means they're suddenly going to get more involved in the industry and stay involved.

    A game that can be played in both VR and non-VR mode is certainly possible, but such a thing usually warrants compromises in design, that result in it being a very underwhelming experience in at least one of those modes.  Going for a full-on asynchronous experience is about the only way to make such a thing work well.. allowing the two experiences to be uneven, so that one can be designed fully for flatscreen gaming and the other can be designed fully for VR.    But the non-VR gamers will still be upset that they're missing out on half of the game, especially if they have to pay full-price for it.
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,074 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    I dunno valve releasing their own branded HMD raises the stakes a bit imo. Allowing HTC to release vive still distanced valve from the coal face a bit however releasing a HMD with their name plastered all over it does then imo create an expectation (quite reasonably) of software  support. Some games translate more easily from VR to flat screen than others but my totally unqualified view is that it IS possible most of the time just likes racing game can support 3 screens and wheels/ pedals but still also support a single screen and gamepad.
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    CrashFu said:
    I was including the cost of the computer, as the vast majority of Steam users do not own VR-capable PCs, and out of the ones that do, even fewer will meet the requirements for any higher-end system, as the Index is appearing to be.

    You also seem to be forgetting that Valve is not a VR company.  They're a game-distributor and very rarely a game developer who are now dipping their toes into the VR industry, but PC gamers who do not have PC VR systems still make up ~99% of their customer-base (and likely always will)   Thus, any VR game Valve makes is being made for only ~1% of their current and future audience, and will be completely unavailable to the rest.  Also, given that they can't afford to neglect that other 99%, it's very unlikely that they'll make any further VR games after the mystery three. Something to keep in mind, before you go thinking that three whole games means they're suddenly going to get more involved in the industry and stay involved.

    A game that can be played in both VR and non-VR mode is certainly possible, but such a thing usually warrants compromises in design, that result in it being a very underwhelming experience in at least one of those modes.  Going for a full-on asynchronous experience is about the only way to make such a thing work well.. allowing the two experiences to be uneven, so that one can be designed fully for flatscreen gaming and the other can be designed fully for VR.    But the non-VR gamers will still be upset that they're missing out on half of the game, especially if they have to pay full-price for it.
    Right but we don't know exactly what will be required for a good experience with the Index yet. It might run great on a 1060 for all we know.
    They aren't a VR company, but they're about to be one. This product has Valve on the side of it. As @bigmike20vt said, this changes the game. There's no confusion here like there was with the HTC. This is 100% a Valve product and not supporting it would be a hit to their reputation they can't afford to take at this point. 

    I also have no expectations of what Valve will do post release. It's anyone's guess, especially considering their history of canceling projects but I think they're a big enough company to juggle it...if they want to. 

    As far as gaming with Non-VR, I do agree it depends on the game but I had a blast playing Payday 2 VR with flatscreeners. It was tougher in VR for me but I kept up pretty well and it was a lot of fun.  In sims differences are pretty small, especially with these new higher res headsets. . 
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,568 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    pyroth309 said:
    In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.

    I wonder what that means for the fan based HL2 VR mode

    PS this fecking forum software.. once it decides my curser should be in the quote I can't get the damn thing out.




    Easy fix, cut your response and delete the quote and press enter a few times in the box to make some blank lines. Click in the first line and then do quote again and you can move cursor out. Then just paste your comments back and then delete the extra lines. Yea forum sucks lol.  
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 2,143 Valuable Player
    edited April 26
    A lot of guess work there based on one sentence of unconfirmed rumours.

    I am sure valve have given it a little thought prior to launch.

    There are many games that have a good integration for VR and non VR. Even Super Hot can be played in non VR mode.
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,197
    Wintermute
      true
    Wildt said:
    Imagine having to mail support saying that the brain sensor isn't working :lol:
    If one would be able to call them at all .. You could end up having your suroundings look familiar without being able to make sense of anything:
     
     
    Be good, die great !
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 7,102 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    In other Valve news, VNN/Valve News Network seems pretty confident that the 3 Valve VR games are Half Life, Left 4 Dead, and a coop VR stealth game codenamed citadel. While that sounds all well and good, I won't care about them much if they're under 5 hours of gameplay.

    I wonder what that means for the fan based HL2 VR mode

    PS this fecking forum software.. once it decides my curser should be in the quote I can't get the damn thing out.





    Just delete everything and start again with a new quote, that's what I do.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
This discussion has been closed.