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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • dburnedburne Posts: 2,850 Valuable Player
    Whooee , things are getting interesting.
    An actual physical IPD adjustment, how about that lol.
    Going to be nice having choices!
    Don

    EVGA Z390 Dark MB | I9 9900k| EVGA 2080Ti FTW3 Ultra |32 GB G Skill 3200 cl14 ram | Warthog Throttle | VKB Gunfighter Pro/MCG Pro grip | Crosswind Pedals | EVGA DG 87 Case| Rift S | Quest |
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,914 Valuable Player
    KlodsBrik said:
    At least it doesn´t look like a Vive prototype anylonger.

    This indepth article from november 2018 pretty much summons up "what we know" about the leaked photos up until now I think:

    Also, Valve's marketing have always been trolling in itself. Personally I love it.
     It wouldn't surprise me if they release specs, maybe even software title's on monday April 1st.


    Liked this part especially:

    "Upload VR’s David Heaney claims that his sources say that the headset will have the same resolution of Vive Pro (2880×1600) and 135° FOV. Valve News Network says that the resolution will be bigger than Vive Pro and that FOV will be 150°. "

    Seems like most believe in 135 fov - but 150 would be amazing. Then I'd be forced to start modding Skyrim!  :D
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,549 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    RuneSR2 said:

    Seems like most believe in 135 fov - but 150 would be amazing. Then I'd be forced to start modding Skyrim!  :D
    150 would be too much and just another Pimax honestly unless they have eye tracking. 135 is kind of the cap or edge of what current GPUs will be able to handle in terms of 10s, 20s, and 30s cards. Anything higher than you really do run the risk no one ever buying it other than the top 1%.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,914 Valuable Player
    Interesting how everything may turn out, if profits aren't there - probably not a David vs. Goliat fight, but it could be...  :D




    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    Some people on reddit suggest that it will have a handtracking module as well.


    Be good, die great !
  • bigmike20vtbigmike20vt Posts: 4,083 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    So long as windows MR are sticking g with 2 camera inside out then I am not going near one of those.
    Also whilst oculus is my preferred vr store front steam is head and shoulders above the windows vr infrastructure and I wod want the majority of titles I play to be natively supported and not reliant almost solely on wrappers.like most windows MR users are.
    I really want to stick with oculus bit depending on what this new valve hmd is I will probably jump ship .... Hopefully if openXR takes off I can get back to buying from oculus store sooner rather than .later however
    Fiat Coupe, gone. 350Z gone. Dirty nappies, no sleep & practical transport incoming. Thank goodness for VR :)
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    KlodsBrik said:
    Some people on reddit suggest that it will have a handtracking module as well.


    That's interesting if true, I figured there had to be more to that slot. I thought it might be for some kind of hand tracking device or something.

  • OmegaM4NOmegaM4N Posts: 592
    Neo
    edited March 30
    Ha, i can't beieve this, only yestarday i almost bought a Vive for £499 here in the UK, as that has been the cheapest it has ever been, but on the final confirm purchase screen i changed my mind, twice........lol

    Glad i did now as this looks very interesting.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,549 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    Mradr said:
    RuneSR2 said:

    Seems like most believe in 135 fov - but 150 would be amazing. Then I'd be forced to start modding Skyrim!  :D
    150 would be too much and just another Pimax honestly unless they have eye tracking. 135 is kind of the cap or edge of what current GPUs will be able to handle in terms of 10s, 20s, and 30s cards. Anything higher than you really do run the risk no one ever buying it other than the top 1%.
    I might have to take this back as it might be a possible thing they want to do o.o; I have a hard time understanding the reasoning though if they do - higher FOV is a REALLY big hug of resources as the eye wont be able to really capture all that information in a meaningful way all the time (yes, I understand you can move your eyes - but as soon as you do - you create another spot that doesn't need to be render in full detail again). 

    Upload VR’s David Heaney claims that his sources say that the headset will have the same resolution of Vive Pro (2880×1600) and 135° FOV. Valve News Network says that the resolution will be bigger than Vive Pro and that FOV will be 150°. Anyway, redditor D3Pixel spotted that the Analogix 7530 chip that is on the PCB can only support at maximum the resolution of the Vive Pro, so I believe more to Upload VR’s hypothesis.
    UPDATE: the last sentence has been proved wrong: redditor Otto_Sump commented it this way:
    Making this lower PPD than the Vive pro/Odyssey or Pimax 5K+ makes little sense as it would be in direct competition with them (some people like FOV, some resolution).
    Besides, the ANX7530 is the same chip as used in the Pimax 5K+ and I believe that D3pixel has already been corrected on this in the Pimax forums.
    I’d hope that this was higher resolution, I’d buy one if it was.
    If this is true, this means that since the same screen will be used to have a bigger field of view, the overall PPD will be lower and so the “perceived resolution” will be worse than the Vive Pro. Probably Valve knows that a big FOV is one of the features that VR users ask the most because it creates a more immersive VR and so they are sacrificing PPD.


  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,549 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    Edit: I'm also forgetting the cost of a GPU upgrade which I'll need for something more demanding  than a Rift-S, Having to buy that sooner rather than later wiould nag a bit too.
    This is why the entry cost isn't the HMD - its the computer. If you go for PCVR you are in a penny for a pound setup either way. Granted, for easy of use Rift S might be the better options in terms of setup for people that just want to get in and out of VR where they are at. As for the massive - Rift S really isn't the answer - it'll be Quest at the end of the day. By generation 2-3 if you don't have vision tracking as a option - you might be peddling up a river without a paddle though.

    I honestly think right now - even with all the basic users issues - the main reasons people have jump into VR with computers already powerful enough for VR isn't the price - its that they are waiting for the next generation or a better first generation HMD. Granted - I am not talking about spending 1000$+ here - but something in the 500-800 range I am sure will bring in people if it provided the same quality of their flat screen gaming.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,270 Volunteer Moderator
    edited March 30
    Mradr said:
    Edit: I'm also forgetting the cost of a GPU upgrade which I'll need for something more demanding  than a Rift-S, Having to buy that sooner rather than later wiould nag a bit too.
    This is why the entry cost isn't the HMD - its the computer. If you go for PCVR you are in a penny for a pound setup either way. Quest is honestly the answer to anyone that wants to get into VR at a entry level price. Rift S isn't the answer for the mass market - its Quest.

    *shuts mouth* Sorry rants ><; I will need to try and pressure my self not to comment of these type of statements xD

    I should qualify... I think Rift-S is the great option for people wanting to get into PC VR if their budget allows for a new PC with the same specs as we considered to be top-end 3 years ago (I don't think that's top-end now). Or if they already have that PC but are swayed by little things like a more plug and play solution or slightly higher res.

    Also, there are very good reasons to go for PC VR over stand-alone if you qualify for the above.... mainly choice and scope of games and experiences.

    Edit: I did say newcomers to PC VR rather than newcomers to VR. If someone's not at all interested in the PC side of things then absolutely Quest is the one to go for.

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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    I'm kind of in wait and see mode. I was ready to buy a Rift-S until this news because of touch and compbatibility as I was thinking the Valve HMD was going to be next year like the "CV2." I don't like using my CV1 much anymore. Now, I'm just going to let it play out and go for whatever makes the most sense. Knuckles is kind of the X factor for me. I'm still going to grab a quest for mobility though. I have an Odyssey so I'm just going to keep using it until it plays out. Now I just need Nvidia to come out with a new card so I can build a monster VR rig. :smiley:
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,756 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    The more important question - who will buy the Rift S without knowing anything about the Valve Index? Kinda feels like Valve did this on purpose. Also examine that words "Upgrade your experience". There's been a lot of discussions about Rift-S being "not an upgrade" for Rift owners. I believe Valve chose their words especially to signify that a true upgrade is coming - if they truly can deliver... 
    Valve Index - didn't they choose the wrong finger? Should it not have been Valve Middle Finger? (Which perfectly would convey their message to HTC and Oculus - and the WMR Group ;-)
    Due to the timing of the release, (I mean Pax and GDC just happened) I feel like they weren't ready to release yet and rushed this because of the opportunity. It was like..hey before you hit that order button... take a look at this physical IPD adjustment we got right here!
    It could actually be the opposite.  If you recall, the original Vive was fully complete by December of the year before CV1 came out, just sitting in warehouses  (except for the units they sent out to internet celebrities and tech journalists so they could do paid endorsements and hype-building)  and they just left them there, waiting for Oculus to make the first move so that they could steal their thunder.   And they got away with screwing over their customers like that because they're Valve.

    But either way, you're definitely right about this being an underhanded tactic to distract from Oculus' hype and make people go "Well I'd better hold off on buying Rift-S / Quest until AFTER I find out what Valve's thing can do".  Rift-S was designed to expand the market and improve the baseline VR experience;  Index was designed for the explicit purpose of stealing Rift-S sales.

    ****ing parasites.
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,549 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    Mradr said:
    Edit: I'm also forgetting the cost of a GPU upgrade which I'll need for something more demanding  than a Rift-S, Having to buy that sooner rather than later wiould nag a bit too.
    This is why the entry cost isn't the HMD - its the computer. If you go for PCVR you are in a penny for a pound setup either way. Quest is honestly the answer to anyone that wants to get into VR at a entry level price. Rift S isn't the answer for the mass market - its Quest.

    *shuts mouth* Sorry rants ><; I will need to try and pressure my self not to comment of these type of statements xD

    I should qualify... I think Rift-S is the great option for people wanting to get into PC VR if their budge allows for a new PC with the same specs as we considered to be top-end 3 years ago (I don't think that's top-end now). Or if they already have that PC but are swayed by little things like a more plug and play solution or slightly higher res.

    Also, there are very good reasons to go for PC VR over stand-alone if you qualify for the above.... mainly choice and scope of games and experiences.

    Correct, but I work in service for a long while. Honestly, most customers don't think like you and I. They are only looking at 1-2 things when they are buying a product because 1) They're not the user using the product. 2) They don't know what they getting or needing. 3) They don't want your help - they just want to know the price and either buy it or get out.

    a) Parents buy games for their children - because they are the ones with money, but the problem with anyone making money is that they don't have the time left over after working a 8 hour work day. So now you have a work force that only gets the idea what VR is and not all the fun or understand what really goes into making it a great VR experience.

    b) Going back to the parents - they just simply never had the time to really understand what goes into a PC and what a GT CARD does for someone. They don't understand what the differences between 8GB and 500GB of storage means (even though one could be ram and the other being storage). It's not their fault for not knowing - its just we can only know what we know so long as we use it all the time and have a need to know it.

    c) I think most people have this feeling - but everyone gets shy to ask questions or their main goal isn't to talk to someone that might know - they simply just want to get in and out of the store. With that said - they simply ignore what is there and only look at the price. Take the SD cards from the other post - people will see the price differences between a high speed card and the low speed card and choose the slow speed because its cheaper. The service rep will have no knowledge of why this customer is buying this card so no questions may be ask or simply they don't care so long as the price is what it needs to be to the reason why it is slow.

    True again, but what happen 3 years ago is not what is happening today. People are moving forward with their hardware that can afford to do so. Those are the same people that chose to get new hardware over CV1 instead. What is going to get them to buy now instead of before? I don't mean this in a smart alike ton - I am just wondering at this point what would be the kick over for them. A lot of reasons I heard people not going over yet is because they were waiting for the next generation headset and to fix some of the current generation one issues. 

    The other side of the story I hear is they can't afford a CV1 - but then you break it down into why - and usually its the same issue - they don't have a PC powerful enough to run CV1 in the first place. This is where I feel Quest will come in for those type of people and make a killing off that. I already have family and friends looking at Quest for that very reason.
  • Shadowmask72Shadowmask72 Posts: 3,838 Valuable Player
    Wallet is primed for action as always. Exciting times ahead.  If the specs are decent, I wonder where this will leave the HP Reverb?


    System Specs: RTX 2080 ti , i9 9900K CPU, 16 GB DDR 4 RAM, Win 10 64 Bit OS.
  • DaftnDirectDaftnDirect Posts: 5,270 Volunteer Moderator
    I don't know @mradr some people are like that without doubt but I think there are more people like us.

    I think when the price is in the hundreds of pounds or above, people start to do research and look into the pros and cons.

    I'm not sure the market for VR is with kids yet (not on the whole at least) but if it is, parents these days tend to get requests from the kids and are on the receiving end of all the research the kid had done.

    I think it's the same deal between console and PC (VR and non-VR), people know what they want to get into and it's usually after doing a little research.
    Intel 5820K [email protected], Titan X (Maxwell), 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4, ASRock X99 Taichi, Samsung 500Gb 960 Evo M.2, Corsair H100i v2 Cooler, Inateck KTU3FR-4P USB 3 card, Windows 10 Pro v1903 (18363.476)
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,914 Valuable Player
    Wallet is primed for action as always. Exciting times ahead.  If the specs are decent, I wonder where this will leave the HP Reverb?

    If my male intuition, my tingling Spider-sense and my sense of disturbances in The Force are correct about the Index - I fear the worst for the Reverb  :#

    Image result for no one remembers

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    RuneSR2 said:
    Wallet is primed for action as always. Exciting times ahead.  If the specs are decent, I wonder where this will leave the HP Reverb?

    If my male intuition, my tingling Spider-sense and my sense of disturbances in The Force are correct about the Index - I fear the worst for the Reverb  :#

    I think that will depend on the PPD of the "index" (seriously wtf is with this title). If what people are saying is true and the resolution is the same as a Vive Pro but stretched 135 degrees....The people that would be interested in the Reverb may still prefer the higher ppd for target and instrument clarity. IE Simmers. Won't know for sure until we get some Specs.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,549 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    I don't know @mradr some people are like that without doubt but I think there are more people like us.

    I think when the price is in the hundreds of pounds or above, people start to do research and look into the pros and cons.

    I'm not sure the market for VR is with kids yet (not on the whole at least) but if it is, parents these days tend to get requests from the kids and are on the receiving end of all the research the kid had done.

    I think it's the same deal between console and PC (VR and non-VR), people know what they want to get into and it's usually after doing a little research.
    The problem is kids research is going to be flawed a lot of the time. For example, I had a number of customers ask me to look at the parts they was going to buy (before PC Picker) that was all over the place and was influences by price so that their parents would be ok to buy said computer hardware. 

    When the parents get the same research from the kids - it's only going to be half understand from there too. Again, I am not blaming anyone here - it's just it happens a lot.

    What makes consoles so great though was and still is the fact there isn't much thought or research needed to get into console gaming short of what games you might like a bit more on one platform over another. You don't need to know how big of a drive you might need, the ram, the OS, etc etc. It's a static all in one system for the most part. Yes there are options, but usually, they can be over look because you are still getting the same base console/system either way. If you base it off that - Quest is the answer to all that and a bag of chips for the masses to look at that first over PCVR. Consoles out number PC people for a reason.

    Quest will actually be for the KIDS in this case. Kids will be able to understand and present the console like device to parents that will make it a simple yes or no for them. I can actually tell people just the price in this case to get into VR without explaining and confusing the end user what they will need to make VR currently work on PC.

    People using PC usually are after higher end quality. That can mean MANY things to the end user. For example, I want to see higher PPD while someone else wants to see higher FOV. At the end of the day - the goal is to still have something better about PCVR than what a console will have naturally because the end user is already spending the money to have the hardware there that is going to provide a better experience in the first place.

    Either way, there are two markets for anything anyone does. The Rift S still has a place and I think it will fit a number of users profile for have them jump into VR. Hell I might be one of them still as I like to try out the Rift S, Quest, and now the Index. I might do that actually much like I did with Vive and CV1 when they release.
  • KlodsBrikKlodsBrik Posts: 1,201
    Wintermute
    edited March 30
    pyroth309 said:
    I think that will depend on the PPD of the "index" (seriously wtf is with this title)
    Im kinda busy right now.
    But somewhere in the patent for the Index logo or similar ,a sentence like "reflective indexing" is mentioned.
     Could have something to do with how it's tracking. Also some people refer to their weird logo as a 3 lens passthrough?

    Will add links later when I have time to find them.
     Again, im just a messenger speculating into this, so I might be wrong as usual .. lol
    Be good, die great !
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    KlodsBrik said:
    pyroth309 said:
    I think that will depend on the PPD of the "index" (seriously wtf is with this title)
    Im kinda busy right now.
    But somewhere in the patent for the Index logo or similar ,a sentence like "reflective indexing" is mentioned.
     Could have something to do with how it's tracking. Also some people refer to their weird logo as a 3 lens passthrough?

    Will add links later when I have time to find them.
     Again, im just a messenger speculating into this, so I might be wrong as usual .. lol

  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 3,914 Valuable Player
    pyroth309 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Wallet is primed for action as always. Exciting times ahead.  If the specs are decent, I wonder where this will leave the HP Reverb?

    If my male intuition, my tingling Spider-sense and my sense of disturbances in The Force are correct about the Index - I fear the worst for the Reverb  :#

    I think that will depend on the PPD of the "index" (seriously wtf is with this title). If what people are saying is true and the resolution is the same as a Vive Pro but stretched 135 degrees....The people that would be interested in the Reverb may still prefer the higher ppd for target and instrument clarity. IE Simmers. Won't know for sure until we get some Specs.

    Maybe - for owners of high-end video cards, of course. If Index comes with awesome new exclusive games, higher or similar PPD than Rift-S, great headphones, great tracking + controllers and wide fov, Reverb would probably be of little interest to me. I'd love to put down the scuba mask and significantly increase fov (if the PPD still is great). 
    But we are speculating on almost no available info apart from physical IPD, of course we need much more info about the final Index hardware to make any reasonable comparisons. 

    Man, with some many new HMDs constantly arriving I'll end up never being able to buy anything new and will never stop using my Rift  :D
    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz gpu boost, 11 GHz mem speed); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Valve Index and Oculus Rift CV1 - the latter nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,576 Valuable Player
    edited March 30
    RuneSR2 said:
    pyroth309 said:
    RuneSR2 said:
    Wallet is primed for action as always. Exciting times ahead.  If the specs are decent, I wonder where this will leave the HP Reverb?

    If my male intuition, my tingling Spider-sense and my sense of disturbances in The Force are correct about the Index - I fear the worst for the Reverb  :#

    I think that will depend on the PPD of the "index" (seriously wtf is with this title). If what people are saying is true and the resolution is the same as a Vive Pro but stretched 135 degrees....The people that would be interested in the Reverb may still prefer the higher ppd for target and instrument clarity. IE Simmers. Won't know for sure until we get some Specs.

    Maybe - for owners of high-end video cards, of course. If Index comes with awesome new exclusive games, higher or similar PPD than Rift-S, great headphones, great tracking + controllers and wide fov, Reverb would probably be of little interest to me. I'd love to put down the scuba mask and significantly increase fov (if the PPD still is great). 
    But we are speculating on almost no available info apart from physical IPD, of course we need much more info about the final Index hardware to make any reasonable comparisons. 

    Man, with some many new HMDs constantly arriving I'll end up never being able to buy anything new and will never stop using my Rift  :D
    Well, the Reverb was never aimed at the mass market. HP knows the specs are too high for the average user to power. You're probably going to really want a 2080 or 2080TI to push that thing with. That already eliminates all but hardcore simmers who would be interested in such a  thing. Gamers aren't what they're banking on, commercial/professional applications is their target. They wont' have any software to offer. That said, this will definitely eliminate a lot of people that were considering it just to get an upgrade so it will hit their pocket some.

    For the vast majority of gamers looking to buy a headset today it's going to be Index Vs Rift-S
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