Valve Index - Specifications released. - Page 38 — Oculus
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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,488
    Project 2501
    RuneSR2 said:
    I completely agree with Zenbane that Knuckles look like Wands with extra buttons, but at least it's a great thing if Knuckles may be able to simulate Touch like shown in the video. 
    Yea I didn't have any doubts that it would work which is why I jumped in. I didn't realize though that Re-vive already has knuckles support added. That's good to know. Re-vive dev has been working on a new version since March that will use OpenXR. Once that happens, everything should be pretty interchangeable. 
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,962 Valuable Player
    Just by pure luck my games room has outlets in all the right places. I guess power extensions cables are cheaper than long USB extensions anyway.
  • DilipDilip Posts: 248
    Nexus 6
    Index has quite disappointed with resolution of displays ... they spoke too much of enthusiast thing and device being set  for experienced users blah blah ... what they did in end 1440p  :p
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,637 Valuable Player
    Dilip said:
    Index has quite disappointed with resolution of displays ... they spoke too much of enthusiast thing and device being set  for experienced users blah blah ... what they did in end 1440p  :p

    It's actually 1600p, the Rift S is 1440p. Not a big difference between the two though, certainly not a £520 difference.

    That's why I'm so pissed off with Valve. I don't have a problem with them aiming the Index at the enthusiast market, but if someone expects me to pay £919 for a headset I'm going to want something truly high end. And the Valve Index isn't it. Same goes for the Vive Pro too.

    If Valve want me to pay that sort of money for a headset then it's going to need to be a 2160p headset or a headset with a similar FOV to the Pimax ones. 1600p and 130° FOV just doesn't cut it.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,488
    Project 2501
    edited May 5
    This is why I included Raiders of Erda in that last list of games. I read this a couple of months ago and just found it again. 
    https://tylerlindell.com/news/raiders-of-erda-dev-reveals-investment-ikabod-for-accurate-vr-avatars/

    They're still working on it as of February and are licensing its avatar mapping tech. If they've been working on it the whole 2 years, it should be great. 

    Also on their site it says this - 

    Assemble your crew of Raiders and go hunting monsters, searching for loot and completing quests.

    If you’ve seen someone swing a sword, draw a bow and arrow, or wield a mace, you already know how to play this game, as the game uses motion controllers in a naturalistic and intuitive way. There is a huge range of weapons, from close-range to long distance to choose from. You can pick combat styles that suit you – but don’t assume that your foes will always let you have your own way!

    We’ve taken the evergreen genre of MMORPG* and reimagined it for social VR.

    Liberate your homeland, ravaged by hordes of enemies named ‘The Scourge’ distorted by a mystical power. Uncover the mystery of what happened to your homeland and discover what it will take to reclaim it.

    *An MMO is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game… think World of Warcraft, sometimes referred to as an MMORPG Massively Multiplayer Online

    Raiders of Erda offers a rich RPG lore and a world to discover. You are encouraged to team up with friends and conquer enemies together. Co-ordinate and undertake raids on enemy ground or stand side-by-side with your team-mates to protect your territory against overwhelming odds.

    Create new allegiances, and deeper bonds, as you share the journey with others. Equip yourself with weapons, armour, magical runes and other loot that you have amassed.

    Please sign up to be notified of development updates and to be part of a public test phase.

    Sounds like they've flipped it to a MMORPG which would be awesome for me lol.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,488
    Project 2501
    snowdog said:
    Dilip said:
    Index has quite disappointed with resolution of displays ... they spoke too much of enthusiast thing and device being set  for experienced users blah blah ... what they did in end 1440p  :p

    It's actually 1600p, the Rift S is 1440p. Not a big difference between the two though, certainly not a £520 difference.

    That's why I'm so pissed off with Valve. I don't have a problem with them aiming the Index at the enthusiast market, but if someone expects me to pay £919 for a headset I'm going to want something truly high end. And the Valve Index isn't it. Same goes for the Vive Pro too.

    If Valve want me to pay that sort of money for a headset then it's going to need to be a 2160p headset or a headset with a similar FOV to the Pimax ones. 1600p and 130° FOV just doesn't cut it.
    Yea no doubt the Value is poor but I'm actually thinking of doubling down on the poor value and going for a RTX 2080TI FTW3 lol. Tired of waiting for a new GPU and I want to run everything in 120hz or 144hz. Plus I think I'm going to give my Rift to my Nephew and my 1080 would let him run it great. But geez the performance per dollar is so abysmal on that card. 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited May 5
    snowdog said:
    That's why I'm so pissed off with Valve. I don't have a problem with them aiming the Index at the enthusiast market, but if someone expects me to pay £919 for a headset I'm going to want something truly high end. And the Valve Index isn't it. Same goes for the Vive Pro too.
    But most of that isnt the Headset cost - The headset it self is price correctly. Its the controller cost. I wouldn't be mad at them over the headset cost - I would be for the controllers and the base stations.

    1x Headset: $499
    2x LH: $222
    1x Controllers: $279

    Rumor LH cost was around the: 175$ mark for the pair so there is an extra 47$ there. The controllers I knew was going to be high, but 279$ high seems really crazy to me as well. Most was thinking 200$ for them making them an extra 79$. Over all - rumor price was around the 800-900 range already though - so I guess what is an extra 120$ for SH/H and other factors - meh. I am with you though - I wish they would've taken the hit and didn't charge the extra cost for the bundle it self and made it around 800$. That would've been a perfect value.
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,753 Valuable Player
    Kind of a moot point, unless you're willing to use the Index with the 1.0 lighthouses and Vive wands.

    And even that scenario only applies if you already own those things, since... I just looked it up and apparently it still costs as much for a set of those as it does for the Lighthouse 2.0 and Knuckles???

    Because the lighthouses and controllers are mandatory to use the device, that $499 headset price really only applies if yours breaks and you have to replace it at your own expense.

    Though, based on what we know about the controllers (curiously lightweight for their size, lots of moving parts, LOTS of delicate tech inside, strap materials that will probably wear down with use, etc.),  I think you're far more likely to have to replace those than the headset... IE, I don't think it's a coincidence that they cost so much, or have to be bought in pairs instead of individually.
    >:)
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited May 5
    CrashFu said:
    Kind of a moot point, unless you're willing to use the Index with the 1.0 lighthouses and Vive wands.

    And even that scenario only applies if you already own those things, since... I just looked it up and apparently it still costs as much for a set of those as it does for the Lighthouse 2.0 and Knuckles???

    Because the lighthouses and controllers are mandatory to use the device, that $499 headset price really only applies if yours breaks and you have to replace it at your own expense.

    Though, based on what we know about the controllers (curiously lightweight for their size, lots of moving parts, LOTS of delicate tech inside, strap materials that will probably wear down with use, etc.),  I think you're far more likely to have to replace those than the headset... IE, I don't think it's a coincidence that they cost so much, or have to be bought in pairs instead of individually.
    Well not really a moot point. My point is that the headset isn't what is to be mad at - its the extra. Valve over charge on them and there for I think complaining about the whole package or the extra is where the talk should be about. I mean I dont think lowering the headset would do anything would it? What-  they remove 100$ from the headset - so what? It wont do anything about the price as you would still end up having to buy the extra stuff if you are new to VR or even LH tracking. 

    They could always lower the cost of these "extras" over time making the whole package cheaper. So while yes - you need all of them if you are coming at this new - current users will not have to pay as much to upgrade their headset. This would include current CV1 users as well. Plus there is another group of users/game style that doesn't use controllers at all such as your sim group. Heck for them - the headset + one BS would be more than enough.

    The controllers are not "mandatory" at all - you could use wands or even Oculus Touch controllers if you wish to if you have them (granted this was using a hack someone put together). Something I am going to try when both my Index and Rift S comes in and see how they feel working together. 

    Don't get me wrong - I understand what you are trying to say - it's just that I don't see the point in saying the headset needs to be cheaper when it's the extras that need to be cheaper. The extras are what have the extra tax to them that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

    True, when they was being demo out - I heard lots of complaints of them breaking - almost being smash from the user grip alone LOL. Then again- they might have been using weaker plastic to help get them out the door faster.
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,401 Valuable Player
    edited May 5
    I think the 2880x1600 is a great res for current high-end video cards, going much higher would lower performance too much for many users. Also this is the Index - it's not the normal 2880x1600 lenses, so I would be careful comparing that res to Vive Pro and other HMDs using 2880x1600, like described here:


    Source: https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/index/headset

    Valve even named the HMD after the dual lenses - that's got to mean something... (I hope) But of course we need real reviews to really find out. 

    Currently it seems the Index launches June 28 - so that's how long we may have to wait for the NDA to be lifted:


    The box does look great - but I might still like the Rift CV1 + Touch bundle packaging better, it really felt like some sort of Cyberdeck ;) 



    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,488
    Project 2501
    RuneSR2 said:

    The box does look great - but I might still like the Rift CV1 + Touch bundle packaging better, it really felt like some sort of Cyberdeck ;) 
    Yea the box is laid out nice but it also looks on the cheap side. Definitely not up to the quality of the original CV1 packaging but at least on par with the updated cv1. 
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,637 Valuable Player
    Dear Oculus, you'd better have the VERY cool magnetic lid thingy in the box of the Rift S otherwise - you guessed it - fuck you, I'm buying a Valve Index. B)
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,962 Valuable Player
    I remember being disappointed that the DK2 didn’t have a plastic carry case like the dk1. Now I would be happy if it’s in a carrier bag if it arrived sooner.
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,096 Valuable Player
    Would there be any companies out there that do HP Reverb resolution. Index base stations and Oculus Touch controllers? If there is you just made the perfect VR Headset for around £700. Why don't they all just team up to bring us this headset?
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,962 Valuable Player
    It seems pretty perfect as it is to me 😀
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,096 Valuable Player
    edited May 5
    It seems pretty perfect as it is to me 😀

    I'm just thinking about price that's all. I reckon you could do that headset I've mentioned for around £900 tops. You would get high resolution some good controllers and good tracking.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,962 Valuable Player
    It’s only £919 on steam ?
  • RuneSR2RuneSR2 Posts: 2,401 Valuable Player
    It seems pretty perfect as it is to me 😀

    Yeah, I'm looking forward to much better performance with the Index - burdening my CV1 with ss 2.0 since Lone Echo in summer 2017 has been a tough battle. I really hope I don't need a lot of ss to enjoy the Index, maybe I can get 50% more fps or 120 Hz compared to the CV1!  :D  

    Intel i7 7700K (4.5 GHz); MSI GeForce GTX 1080 8GB Gaming X (oc 2100 MHz boost, 11 Ghz ram); 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 MHz; MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (VR-Ready) mainboard; Samsung 960 Evo M.2 SSD + Toshiba P300 HD; Windows 10 OS; Oculus Rift CV1 - nearly always using super sampling 2.0. 

    "Ask not what VR can do for you – ask what you can do for VR"
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,962 Valuable Player
    The more I read from lots of sources who have tried it, the more confident I am that this is going to be a special headset. 

    Plus I wonder what that extra secret is, wonder if they have an AR game?
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,962 Valuable Player
    Not sure how the touch would work doesn’t it need the headset for positioning?
  • RedRizlaRedRizla Posts: 6,096 Valuable Player
    edited May 5
    Didn't realise index was £912 on Steam. I'm just holding off buying any headset until I've heard lots more feedback from people. I'm looking at buying a Geforce 2080Ti while I wait.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,488
    Project 2501
    Not sure how the touch would work doesn’t it need the headset for positioning?
    It does, but if you have a CV1 already you can hack it to get it to work with a different headset. Requires you to have the CV1 powered up to work though.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 195
    Art3mis
    edited May 5
    pyroth309 said:
    Not sure how the touch would work doesn’t it need the headset for positioning?
    It does, but if you have a CV1 already you can hack it to get it to work with a different headset. Requires you to have the CV1 powered up to work though.
    I'm not too sure about that...it works with the Vive Wands and WMR headsets, but the Rift headset goes to sleep, even when selecting to disable the proximity sensor. SweViver said he tried with the Rift/Touch and a WMR headset, but the controllers stopped working within a short period. I know with my Rift, I had it displayed on my pc monitor while downloading videos through the SLR app, so I could do other things while they were downloading. After a minute or so, the screen goes black, even with the proximity sensor disabled, or even while covered with tape. But as soon as I jiggled the headset, the video came back. So I'm guessing it's not just the proximity sensor, but it also registers if the headset is actually moving around or not. Maybe with the headset sitting on something that vibrates, or hanging from an oscillating fan(?).
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,488
    Project 2501
    Spuzzum said:
    pyroth309 said:
    Not sure how the touch would work doesn’t it need the headset for positioning?
    It does, but if you have a CV1 already you can hack it to get it to work with a different headset. Requires you to have the CV1 powered up to work though.
    I'm not too sure about that...it works with the Vive Wands and WMR headsets, but the Rift headset goes to sleep, even when selecting to disable the proximity sensor. SweViver said he tried with the Rift/Touch and a WMR headset, but the controllers stopped working within a short period. I know with my Rift, I had it displayed on my pc monitor while downloading videos through the SLR app, so I could do other things while they were downloading. After a minute or so, the screen goes black, even with the proximity sensor disabled, or even while covered with tape. But as soon as I jiggled the headset, the video came back. So I'm guessing it's not just the proximity sensor, but it also registers if the headset is actually moving around or not. Maybe with the headset sitting on something that vibrates, or hanging from an oscillating fan(?).
    Yea I'm not sure how they did it but I've run across a couple of videos and threads saying they pulled it off. You can force it on somehow. Once i read that you had to have CV1 headset going too I moved on lol. 


  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 195
    Art3mis
    pyroth309 said:
    Spuzzum said:
    pyroth309 said:
    Not sure how the touch would work doesn’t it need the headset for positioning?
    It does, but if you have a CV1 already you can hack it to get it to work with a different headset. Requires you to have the CV1 powered up to work though.
    I'm not too sure about that...it works with the Vive Wands and WMR headsets, but the Rift headset goes to sleep, even when selecting to disable the proximity sensor. SweViver said he tried with the Rift/Touch and a WMR headset, but the controllers stopped working within a short period. I know with my Rift, I had it displayed on my pc monitor while downloading videos through the SLR app, so I could do other things while they were downloading. After a minute or so, the screen goes black, even with the proximity sensor disabled, or even while covered with tape. But as soon as I jiggled the headset, the video came back. So I'm guessing it's not just the proximity sensor, but it also registers if the headset is actually moving around or not. Maybe with the headset sitting on something that vibrates, or hanging from an oscillating fan(?).
    Yea I'm not sure how they did it but I've run across a couple of videos and threads saying they pulled it off. You can force it on somehow. Once i read that you had to have CV1 headset going too I moved on lol. 



    Got any links? I'd love to use the Touch with other headsets.
  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,488
    Project 2501
    edited May 5
    Spuzzum said:
    pyroth309 said:



    Got any links? I'd love to use the Touch with other headsets.
    No unfortunately, it was on reddit somewhere.
    This was one of them talking about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/9c6wax/discussion_using_the_touch_controllers_without/

    But that was about using it as a mouse. Lemme see if i can find it. I doubt it's actually viable beyond a demo though. If you keep the screen on you're risking OLED burnin. I haven't seen anyone actually get it to work as a real replacement. 
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited May 5
    kojack said:
    pyroth309 said:
    No unfortunately, it was on reddit somewhere.
    This was one of them talking about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/9c6wax/discussion_using_the_touch_controllers_without/
    Interesting fact: that guy Rajetic in that thread is me. I use the name Rajetic when Kojack is already taken. :) It's my program that uses Touch outside of VR that they are discussing.

    The one I read said to use openVR and then trick the controller into thinking it was setup for the other headset, but I wonder what's the difference between the two approaches? I really haven't read into it too much yet.. just knew it was possible. https://github.com/matzman666/OpenVR-InputEmulator - then again maybe it was using the same approach just in a different way.

    Yea I figure Rift S controllers might be out of the question - but should be possible with the older CV1 - I wonder if I could bypass the circuit that is having issues with my headset anyways (its the LCD controller) and just have it mounted in a way like a puck XD
  • kojackkojack Posts: 5,249 Volunteer Moderator
    Mradr said:
    Yea I figure Rift S controllers might be out of the question - but should be possible with the older CV1 - I wonder if I could bypass the circuit that is having issues with my headset anyways (its the LCD controller) and just have it mounted in a way like a puck XD
    That would work. Although one issue is that some games (even if not from the oculus store) will detect the CV1 and try to use it. For example Elite Dangerous has multiple native sdks.
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 195
    Art3mis
    edited May 6
    pyroth309 said:
    Spuzzum said:
    pyroth309 said:



    Got any links? I'd love to use the Touch with other headsets.
    No unfortunately, it was on reddit somewhere.
    This was one of them talking about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/9c6wax/discussion_using_the_touch_controllers_without/

    But that was about using it as a mouse. Lemme see if i can find it. I doubt it's actually viable beyond a demo though. If you keep the screen on you're risking OLED burnin. I haven't seen anyone actually get it to work as a real replacement. 

    Ok...that's different than what I was talking about. To use Vive Wands with another headset, you use OpenVR Emulator and add a line to steamvr.vrsettings. It uses both headsets, but the Vive headset only uses the USB connection to communicate with the controllers, with the other headset using both HDMI and USB connections. You then select the master and slave headsets. There's no worries of burn-in, as it only uses the USB of the slave.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/86ri8w/vive_controllers_work_with_the_odyssey/


    edit: what Mradr said...lol. Sorry, didn't see his comment until after posting this one. :P
This discussion has been closed.