Valve Index - Specifications released. - Page 40 — Oculus
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Valve Index - Specifications released.

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  • pyroth309pyroth309 Posts: 1,455
    Project 2501
    edited May 7
    CrashFu said:
    What I keep wondering is...  if you divide the resolution of a headset by its FoV, you essentially get the pixel fill, right?

    IE the Index sounds impressive at a horizontal resolution of 2880, but divided by the alleged 130 FoV you get ~22 ..

    But when you divide the Rift-S 2560 horizontal resolution by, let's say 100.. you get ~25.

    So wouldn't that mean that the Rift-S theoretically has better visual quality than the Index, despite its lower FoV?  Kinda like watching a 1080p video on a tablet vs watching a 1080p video on a large TV?  (obviously not as extreme a difference, but same principle)
     Considering Valve is kind of cheating to get the FoV by tilting the panels 5 degrees and losing some binocular overlap and making corrections with the lenses, it's hard to say without using both side by side. I haven't seen exactly what panels are in the index. 
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    inovator said:
    inovator said:
    I stand corrected but there have been many opinions through the years that oculus wasn't 110. I'm not saying it's true but my Playstation vr feels no smaller and it's supposed to be 100. 
    Ya sorry I forgot to edit out your reply, that was directed at Rune's post.

    Regarding FOV, I believe Oculus has 110 listed, but it's agreed by the community Rift CV1 falls between 90-100 (probably closer to 100).
    Similarly I was just playing PSVR today (Borderlands 2VR, since I'm Riftless until my S arrives) and the FOV feels the same as Rift.
    OMG I'm also playing boarderlands 2 on PSVR I'm tired of moving furniture so I retired my Rift while waiting for my Rift S and quest. I think oculus has lied about the fov. If index is truly the fov they say, it can be even a greater difference than the  rift. I don't think oculus should have lied to us if the fov really is smaller than 110.
    I’ll tell you exactly why and when that happened as I was there that day.

    The DK1 had a true 110 of FOV maybe more, as you could get your eyelashes touching the lenses. When the DK2 was created they didn’t want to say they had reduced the FOV so they refused to comment on it until after launch. Then they said it was “about” the same. The DK1 had a 7" screen and the DK2 5".

    The moment I put on the DK2 the difference was immediately obvious. I was gutted to be frank. Most of this forum was in uproar. Except people who wore glasses as they could not get close to the lenses on the DK1.

    Just that 10 degrees made an amazing difference. That loss killed immersion dead. I remember playing Titans of space on my DK2 straight after and it had just lost its awe, even though the resolution was much better. That’s when the era of binoculars strapped to your head began.

    2014 was the year my long wait for FOV started. CV1 came out and they reduced it again (only slightly though prob down to it’s now 95-97)

    This is also why I cannot describe my disappointment at another snub to FOV with the Rift S, after promising us so much. I would not be surprised if they reduced it again to be honest another few degrees just to get a bit more performance out of it. 6 years and still lower than than the DK1, really???

    The index is going to make a huge difference even if it’s 20 degrees more.  If it is 35 degrees, more than the Rift I will be blown away and I may get a little misty eyed.

    The first game I am going to try is Titans of Space, as is tradition , I've waited a long time to get that feeling back Drash (if you are still browsing this forum)  :)


  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,592 Valuable Player
    The horizontal FOV is the same for both the Rift and Vive, the vertical FOV of the Vive is slightly higher...but there isn't much in it.

    The Index has a 20° higher FOV than (both the Rift and) the Vive according to Valve.

    Nobody is lying about their FOV, there just isn't a standard way of measuring it.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    edited May 8

    In the end it does not really matter about the "subjective" FOV number. DK2 was a downgrade from the DK1, CV1 was a downgrade from the DK2 but slight. Rift S is still to be seen if it is a downgrade or the same.

    The first downgrade greatly affected the experience.  Hopefully at last the Index will rectify it. However no videos yet and I am still highly suspicious of any companies FOV declarations. Even the Hp claimed 114 but I am seeing reports it is between 105 and 110. 

    I do agree though for previous Oculus headsets it was necessary, due to hardware restrictions etc.

    I am not blaming Oculus for it then but enough is enough, all this time later and no improvement, just to tailor it to the entry level market. That I do not agree with and why we are parting ways but I still wish them the best. Oculus will always be the father of VR for me. 
  • CrashFuCrashFu Posts: 1,753 Valuable Player
    Hey, instead of trashing on Oculus and the Rift-S all the time, maybe you should like... actually go down to Best Buy and try it out?  They should be starting demos any day now.

    Devs and GDC attendees were blown away by the Rift-S visuals, maybe you will be, too?

    lol ; "CV1 was a downgrade from DK1 and DK2", though.
    It's hard being the voice of reason when you're surrounded by unreasonable people.
  • inovatorinovator Posts: 1,813
    Project 2501
    CrashFu said:
    Hey, instead of trashing on Oculus and the Rift-S all the time, maybe you should like... actually go down to Best Buy and try it out?  They should be starting demos any day now.

    Devs and GDC attendees were blown away by the Rift-S visuals, maybe you will be, too?

    lol ; "CV1 was a downgrade from DK1 and DK2", though.
    No one is trashing anything. I'm buying the rift s but we are talking of the fov and anyone that has owned dk1 or dk2 can give a good prospective. I'm not a fan boy and want info.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    edited May 8

    I would take your recommendations seriously CrashFu, if you made at least one impartial post about non Oculus headsets, instead of crashing into every one like the Oculus Avenger. 

    Secondly this is an Index thread, you should not be surprised we are talking about FOV increase, considering it is one of its main features.

    Plus read the context, FOV was downgraded. It is smaller. Nobody is talking about visuals here, we are talking about Field of View. unless the Rift has a secret 30 degrees extra FOV button they did not disclose.
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,540 Valuable Player
    Yes let the hate flow through you! 



    WAAAGH!
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    Morgrum said:
    Yes let the hate flow through you! 



    That's the second time I have had the picture applied to my conversation in a week LoL. I love it, although Zenbane's had tassels :)
  • MowTinMowTin Posts: 1,412
    Project 2501
    edited May 8
    The index is going to make a huge difference even if it’s 20 degrees more.  If it is 35 degrees, more than the Rift I will be blown away and I may get a little misty eyed.

    The first game I am going to try is Titans of Space, as is tradition , I've waited a long time to get that feeling back Drash (if you are still browsing this forum)  :)



     Rift is the only headset I ever tried. Your comments about the difference 10 deg of FOV makes intrigues me. Now I can't wait to get my hands on the Index.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    I have not even seen a video of the Index yet but I am hopeful from reviews.

    The DK1 FOV just pushed the dark edges just enough so as not to intrude on the experience. You felt enveloped. You could still see the edges but it was much, much easier to forgot about it. With the DK2 and Rift CV1 you feel you are outside looking in through two small circular windows, like a World War II gas mask.

    I think if I never had a DK1, I probably would be none the wiser but having it and then taken away, boy that hurt. The difference FOV makes to immersion is extraordinary. If you add 120/144 hz  and clearer sharper visuals then oh wow.

    Edit: You can probably get the idea of what I am talking about with the CV1 (sort of) try pressing the headset as hard as possible without popping out your eyes :) to your face. You will see the round window like effect disappears and you seem more enveloped. However the Rift the has massive black bars at the side which spoils the whole effect. Imagine that minus the obvious bars in your view.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    I have not even seen a video of the Index yet but I am hopeful from reviews.

    I think if I never had a DK1, I probably would be none the wiser but having it and then taken away, boy that hurt. The difference FOV makes to immersion is extraordinary. If you add 120/144 hz  and clearer sharper visuals then oh wow.
    lol - but the hardware requirement would be nuts. I am not sure how that Hz really plays into VR yet.  I know at least for TVs/monitors for flat screens it really helps keeping things smooth out for motion - so I understand how it will help with VR - but is it really worth over 90Hz in terms of hardware requirements? 90 was already a 50% performance boost from the normally 60Hz most people play at.
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    Yep no idea how it works, I know that one reviewer was playing No mans Sky at 144hz? However this is another reason I am interested in the Index.

    I am not just thinking about today, this headset is a big investment for me. I cannot afford to be replacing my headset every year, I am looking at having it for 3 years. This gives me room to grow as graphic cards improve. Maybe then these features will come into play.
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    Yep no idea how it works, I know that one reviewer was playing No mans Sky at 144hz? However this is another reason I am interested in the Index.

    I am not just thinking about today, this headset is a big investment for me. I cannot afford to be replacing my headset every year, I am looking at having it for 3 years. This gives me room to grow as graphic cards improve. Maybe then these features will come into play.
    Was about to say that as well - it should allow for the next generation cards coming out some room to stretch their legs in. RX 3k coming out in the next few months and I am sure NV will respond with their RTX 3k lines as well.

    I think having hardware options like these is the way forward just a bit. This way you can market your headset for the low and high end at the same time. Now, if they can only get the BS/LH and their new controllers down in price - I think they would have a winner in terms of 1.5 HMD battle goes:)
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    Now, if they can only get the BS/LH and their new controllers down in price - I think they would have a winner in terms of 1.5 HMD battle goes:)
    Well this may sound selfish but I was hoping the high price would put enough people off, so that I would get my index in the first batch. Sadly that seemed to be everyone's plan :smile:

  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,592 Valuable Player
    I can't see them getting the prices down that much. The Vive has only come down twice - first from $799 to $599 and then from $599 to $499 and hasn't got any cheaper since.

    That stuff is just too expensive to manufacture.
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    Well Valve are not HTC, maybe they will do more sales?
  • SpuzzumSpuzzum Posts: 174
    Art3mis
    CrashFu said:
    What I keep wondering is...  if you divide the resolution of a headset by its FoV, you essentially get the pixel fill, right?

    IE the Index sounds impressive at a horizontal resolution of 2880, but divided by the alleged 130 FoV you get ~22 ..

    But when you divide the Rift-S 2560 horizontal resolution by, let's say 100.. you get ~25.

    So wouldn't that mean that the Rift-S theoretically has better visual quality than the Index, despite its lower FoV?  Kinda like watching a 1080p video on a tablet vs watching a 1080p video on a large TV?  (obviously not as extreme a difference, but same principle)

    From my understanding, the Index's 135 degree FoV is due to the lenses, and not the actual panels though. It has the same 2880x1600 that the Vive Pro does, which is only 110 degrees FoV. I'm not sue if that plays into it or not.
  • jabjab Posts: 150
    Art3mis
    Mradr said:
     lol - but the hardware requirement would be nuts. I am not sure how that Hz really plays into VR yet.  I know at least for TVs/monitors for flat screens it really helps keeping things smooth out for motion - so I understand how it will help with VR - but is it really worth over 90Hz in terms of hardware requirements? 90 was already a 50% performance boost from the normally 60Hz most people play at.
    The index support 80/90/120/144hz refresh. So if your hardware can't do 120/144 you just fall back to 80/90. Why turn the support for higher refresh into a negative, when in reality it's a win-win? Next time you upgrade your gfx card, the index is ready for it.

    The higher refresh was the one thing that Norman Chan from Tested said was the most noticeable improvement to the immersion experience.
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,540 Valuable Player
    Morgrum said:
    Yes let the hate flow through you! 



    That's the second time I have had the picture applied to my conversation in a week LoL. I love it, although Zenbane's had tassels :)
    Tassels!
    I feel so inadaquite now...... and I need to backtrack and see this.
    WAAAGH!
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    Page 36 under a spoiler from Zenbane, very funny. :)
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,540 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    ..... Sigh this is what I get for not going through an entire tread and just posting what I see on that last page....
    Just saw it.
    His was much better.


    WAAAGH!
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    I appreciated the effort though :)
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,592 Valuable Player
    Well Valve are not HTC, maybe they will do more sales?

    We MIGHT see a cut price around Christmas and maybe Easter but I wouldn't stake my life on it.

    They could do a 30% off sale because they don't have to give themselves their usual 30% cut lol, but I can't see them having it on sale for quite some time because GabeN has a new swimming pool to fill with cash. :D
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • LuciferousLuciferous Posts: 1,957 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    Maybe you'll get the HL3 free with it at Christmas :)
  • snowdogsnowdog Posts: 6,592 Valuable Player
    More like The Lab 2 lol
    "This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken."

    Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever
  • MorgrumMorgrum Posts: 1,540 Valuable Player
    Maybe you'll get the HL3 free with it at Christmas :)
    Sadly we already know the storyline because that was released years ago.
    WAAAGH!
  • MradrMradr Posts: 3,348 Valuable Player
    edited May 8
    jab said:
    Mradr said:
     lol - but the hardware requirement would be nuts. I am not sure how that Hz really plays into VR yet.  I know at least for TVs/monitors for flat screens it really helps keeping things smooth out for motion - so I understand how it will help with VR - but is it really worth over 90Hz in terms of hardware requirements? 90 was already a 50% performance boost from the normally 60Hz most people play at.
    The index support 80/90/120/144hz refresh. So if your hardware can't do 120/144 you just fall back to 80/90. Why turn the support for higher refresh into a negative, when in reality it's a win-win? Next time you upgrade your gfx card, the index is ready for it.

    The higher refresh was the one thing that Norman Chan from Tested said was the most noticeable improvement to the immersion experience.

     Please read the next post down:) I think you are over reacting just a bit:)


    Mradr said:
    Yep no idea how it works, I know that one reviewer was playing No mans Sky at 144hz? However this is another reason I am interested in the Index.

    I am not just thinking about today, this headset is a big investment for me. I cannot afford to be replacing my headset every year, I am looking at having it for 3 years. This gives me room to grow as graphic cards improve. Maybe then these features will come into play.
    Was about to say that as well - it should allow for the next generation cards coming out some room to stretch their legs in. RX 3k coming out in the next few months and I am sure NV will respond with their RTX 3k lines as well.

    I think having hardware options like these is the way forward just a bit. This way you can market your headset for the low and high end at the same time. Now, if they can only get the BS/LH and their new controllers down in price - I think they would have a winner in terms of 1.5 HMD battle goes:)


    Anyways, the 120/144 does require more hardware to run them - so that means more cost for the end user right now. The question is - a 2080 require to run them at that speed? If so - is it really worth the price difference and hardware requirement to hit that and how much will that really improve that for VR - for flat screens bla bla bla as I said above:) I see it as an upgrade options for 1) people that want the best of the best hardware and 2) For games that get older in time and hardware advancements that make those games easier to run. This way it scales for both low and high end systems. Yet, how many newer games will want to hit that FPS/Hz and instead focus on getting more game onto the system?
  • SkScotcheggSkScotchegg Posts: 1,051
    Wintermute
    RuneSR2 said:
    But the shipping date is now August 31 

    That's what date I got too, that's unbelievable! It feels like we're waiting a thousand years...lol  :'( o:)
    UK: England - Leeds - - RTX 2080 - Make love, not war - See you in the Oasis!
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